Gotway MSuper X arrived

[Jason McNeil]

On 6/13/2018 at 2:24 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

What is the U.S. price?

$1900 with the seat, XT90S anti-spark connect & reverse diode. 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Oh, good to know! It’s just because people always talk about the hard and the soft mode, never about the medium. How is the medium mode on the X? Does it have the slow/delayed swing, or more instant rocking like the KingSongs?

Not having the whine is great news!

Well, like I said, I only tried the two (Yasin had it on soft mode and I switch to hard mode). Sorry, I can't specifically say anything about medium 

[Electroman]

Regarding the modes, soft, medium and hard.

Slightly OT and perhaps selfish and if so sorry about this guys, just that my 67v ACM and the way I ride been very hard for me to figure out whether a technical problem with the wheel or just a reaction of a very aggressive riding style with too much weight on it..? Sometimes (quite often today honestly) when I accelerate away from standing still the wheel literally give and go away from me, I lean to hard and result in either hitting the ground or running goofy all bent over trying to gain my balance and come to a halt. Hard without a broad English vocabulary so feel very handicapped trying to explain this without repetitions and A4 after A4, wall of text like, but wheel cannot physically pull me up again it just just cannot and lack the torque. Same when freak leaning backwards after seeing nice dry asphalt in front of me trusting the grip will not be the problem if any, in that case of course I can just let go and and roll a bit further and all good just stopping distance will be longer, just sometimes it feels like hub motor is skipping on the magnets like holding, holding, holding then skip a few and it's not the axle/shims/nuts checked that?

But I understand this new motor and control will be much stronger and perhaps this will not happen even when riding aggressive, I suppose I am looking for further confirmation this hard mode is night and day from old ACM + much more torque? I have come to understand doing it like Backe, Dan and co is the way to go and simply own several wheels and pick the flavor for the day/event, I will with time affording it, sure I will have at least a powerful 18/19" and a 16". Will the new hard mode for MSX be a huge difference if now using the idiom apples and oranges (16" and 18/19") in regards to dip, possibly also what I describe, possibly pushing the wheels over it's limits and/or just a technical problem after all and question invalidated?

Again, sorry will try to put the lid of and stop myself text walls and OT.

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Regarding the modes, soft, medium and hard.

Slightly OT and perhaps selfish and if so sorry about this guys, just that my 67v ACM and the way I ride been very hard for me to figure out whether a technical problem with the wheel or just a reaction of a very aggressive riding style with too much weight on it..? Sometimes (quite often today honestly) when I accelerate away from standing still the wheel literally give and go away from me, I lean to hard and result in either hitting the ground or running goofy all bent over trying to gain my balance and come to a halt. Hard without a broad English vocabulary so feel very handicapped trying to explain this without repetitions and A4 after A4, wall of text like, but wheel cannot physically pull me up again it just just cannot and lack the torque. Same when freak leaning backwards after seeing nice dry asphalt in front of me trusting the grip will not be the problem if any, in that case of course I can just let go and and roll a bit further and all good just stopping distance will be longer, just sometimes it feels like hub motor is skipping on the magnets like holding, holding, holding then skip a few and it's not the axle/shims/nuts checked that?

But I understand this new motor and control will be much stronger and perhaps this will not happen even when riding aggressive, I suppose I am looking for further confirmation this hard mode is night and day from old ACM + much more torque? I have come to understand doing it like Backe, Dan and co is the way to go and simply own several wheels and pick the flavor for the day/event, I will with time affording it, sure I will have at least a powerful 18/19" and a 16". Will the new hard mode for MSX be a huge difference if now using the idiom apples and oranges (16" and 18/19") in regards to dip, possibly also what I describe, possibly pushing the wheels over it's limits and/or just a technical problem after all and question invalidated?

Again, sorry will try to put the lid of and stop myself text walls and OT.

The ACM2 is two generations beyond the version that you have (I had two of those wheels). It's Night & Day, the difference between them.

Now generally I'm not super aggressive in my accelerations or stops because of the high stress that places on the motor, electronics, and wires. I'd rather not face-plant if I happen to over power the wheel. Some people (you?) really like to lean hard into the starts and stops. I've just become a little more conservative in my riding because I've had enough falls, I don't need any more.

But truly, you would be amazed at the power and hardness of the new ACM2. I can't imagine anyone overpowering the wheel by leaning too hard into a start.

[meepmeepmayer]

@Electroman Not sure if that's the problem you have, but if you switch on a wheel and instantly accelerate hard, it can dip, too. That's because the capacitors aren't charged yet (which happens after one or two seconds or normal balancing).

The 84V ACM and ACM2 also have a more parallel battery configuration (6P instead of 4P) so you have 1.5 times more power from that only. Even before looking at the stronger motor and electronics of the ACM2.

Also I still think mayyyyybe your wheel is weaker than normal because one of the capacitors is dead (something has to explain your crash).

I don't think you will be able to overlean an ACM2.

[kour]

27 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Regarding the modes, soft, medium and hard.

Slightly OT and perhaps selfish and if so sorry about this guys, just that my 67v ACM and the way I ride been very hard for me to figure out whether a technical problem with the wheel or just a reaction of a very aggressive riding style with too much weight on it..? Sometimes (quite often today honestly) when I accelerate away from standing still the wheel literally give and go away from me, I lean to hard and result in either hitting the ground or running goofy all bent over trying to gain my balance and come to a halt. Hard without a broad English vocabulary so feel very handicapped trying to explain this without repetitions and A4 after A4, wall of text like, but wheel cannot physically pull me up again it just just cannot and lack the torque. Same when freak leaning backwards after seeing nice dry asphalt in front of me trusting the grip will not be the problem if any, in that case of course I can just let go and and roll a bit further and all good just stopping distance will be longer, just sometimes it feels like hub motor is skipping on the magnets like holding, holding, holding then skip a few and it's not the axle/shims/nuts checked that?

But I understand this new motor and control will be much stronger and perhaps this will not happen even when riding aggressive, I suppose I am looking for further confirmation this hard mode is night and day from old ACM + much more torque? I have come to understand doing it like Backe, Dan and co is the way to go and simply own several wheels and pick the flavor for the day/event, I will with time affording it, sure I will have at least a powerful 18/19" and a 16". Will the new hard mode for MSX be a huge difference if now using the idiom apples and oranges (16" and 18/19") in regards to dip, possibly also what I describe, possibly pushing the wheels over it's limits and/or just a technical problem after all and question invalidated?

Again, sorry will try to put the lid of and stop myself text walls and OT.

this has happened to me a couple of times! i know exactly what you're talking about. i think it is leaning too hard when you mount. i try to give it a little rolling start and that's seemed to prevent it

Edited June 14, 2018 by kour

[Electroman]

Absolutely kour I get that every now and then and learning patience hehe, correct soft start and give it a few extra seconds makes a difference for sure, however even so sometimes I still manage to overpower the wheel even beyond what you describe and I experienced too, yes already riding often next to someone walking, talking and once I shoot off hard... I am fully aware how it can end, I even tried to demonstrate it to friend today so I exaggerated actually tried to physically touch the ground with my left hand on accelerating forward, of course the wheel did not appreciate it but manage to somehow stay on my feet running like a fool after dipping pedals trying to gain balance, body folded like a pocket knife with people all around likely thinking what is this crazy person trying to accomplish?

Yes meep this is true and experienced it, appreciate the confirmation again just making me more sure the wheel is not actually broken or damaged, it's just Gotway and need special treatment like a fine woman and all will be ok, i hope.

Sounds amazing Backe, exactly what I yearning for, want it badly. Exactly what I wanted to hear but in the process helping me out you just made me doubt my choice all over once again hehe, hopefully this 19" could calm me down a bit but also be powerful enough to support me if not as well then at least better than ACM so I can have little of both worlds or a compromise of sort vs order MS for ex? I actually want ACM2/Tesla/other powerful easy to handle and agile 16" + the MSX/KS18L but must pick one now, will regret it whatever I do but also appreciate it so will go wrong yet cannot?

?

[mrelwood]

@Electroman, I think it is normal that once you gain more skill and confidence, your accelerations became faster. It’s a trust issue/dilemma. Could be that there is nothing wrong with your ACM, but your accelerations have now became stronger than what the wheel is capable of.

But wether that is the case or not, until you get your next wheel, ease up a little! You now know the limits of your wheel, so you can’t blame the wheel if you overlean or underlean and hurt yourself.

Regarding 16” vs 18”, perhaps you already know but a 16” wheel does react faster and have a faster acceleration (all else being equal). So the ACM2 will feel more powerful and accelerate harder than the Msuper X with the same motor. But I believe the difference between your ACM and the Msuper X will still be like a night and day...

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Electroman said:

Absolutely kour I get that every now and then and learning patience hehe, correct soft start and give it a few extra seconds makes a difference for sure, however even so sometimes I still manage to overpower the wheel even beyond what you describe and I experienced too, yes already riding often next to someone walking, talking and once I shoot off hard... I am fully aware how it can end, I even tried to demonstrate it to friend today so I exaggerated actually tried to physically touch the ground with my left hand on accelerating forward, of course the wheel did not appreciate it but manage to somehow stay on my feet running like a fool after dipping pedals trying to gain balance, body folded like a pocket knife with people all around likely thinking what is this crazy person trying to accomplish?

Yes meep this is true and experienced it, appreciate the confirmation again just making me more sure the wheel is not actually broken or damaged, it's just Gotway and need special treatment like a fine woman and all will be ok, i hope.

Sounds amazing Backe, exactly what I yearning for, want it badly. Exactly what I wanted to hear but in the process helping me out you just made me doubt my choice all over once again hehe, hopefully this 19" could calm me down a bit but also be powerful enough to support me if not as well then at least better than ACM so I can have little of both worlds or a compromise of sort vs order MS for ex? I actually want ACM2/Tesla/other powerful easy to handle and agile 16" + the MSX/KS18L but must pick one now, will regret it whatever I do but also appreciate it so will go wrong yet cannot?

?

I think everyone should seek variety in wheels because they all offer unique experiences. Since you already have a 16-inch wheel, buy a 18-inch wheel. I haven't ridden the 18L yet, but I expect it to have the typical KingSong speed throttling as the battery goes down (and it has a smaller battery). I'm buying the MSuper X, not the KS18L.

[Kael]

27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I think everyone should seek variety in wheels because they all offer unique experiences. Since you already have a 16-inch wheel, buy a 18-inch wheel. I haven't ridden the 18L yet, but I expect it to have the typical KingSong speed throttling as the battery goes down (and it has a smaller battery). I'm buying the MSuper X, not the KS18L.

But Marty, by your own admission, you don’t ride fast? But otherwise pretty understandable for the larger battery. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Kael said:

But Marty, by your own admission, you don’t ride fast? But otherwise pretty understandable for the larger battery. 

I don't ride very often in the 25-mph range. Most of my higher speed riding is 20 to 22 mph. But the KingSong wheels will throttle you much slower than that as your battery gets low. Gotway wheels have zero throttling until you dip below 15% battery.

[Adumb]

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The ACM2 is two generations beyond the version that you have (I had two of those wheels). It's Night & Day, the difference between them.

Now generally I'm not super aggressive in my accelerations or stops because of the high stress that places on the motor, electronics, and wires. I'd rather not face-plant if I happen to over power the wheel. Some people (you?) really like to lean hard into the starts and stops. I've just become a little more conservative in my riding because I've had enough falls, I don't need any more.

But truly, you would be amazed at the power and hardness of the new ACM2. I can't imagine anyone overpowering the wheel by leaning too hard into a start.

It's true about the ACM2, I rode a friend's ACM and loved it which made me buy an ACM2. Huge difference between the two, actually pretty different from the other wheels I rode(V8, v10f, ks16s). 

[diegoxxx]

4 godziny temu Marty Backe powiedział:

Marty czy wiesz, dlaczego koło dostaje wibracji, bije, jeśli jedziesz szybciej, ktoś wie msuperX

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by diegoxxx

[Electroman]

13 hours ago, Adumb said:

It's true about the ACM2, I rode a friend's ACM and loved it which made me buy an ACM2. Huge difference between the two, actually pretty different from the other wheels I rode(V8, v10f, ks16s). 

Thank you for even more confirmation, this is good stuff and lovely music to my ears indeed!

However also just make me more confused, though I was going to become more secure in my choice by the day now last week up til pushing enter on payment hehehe.. ?

10 hours ago, diegoxxx said:

 

Did Marty speak Polish?

[mrelwood]

I just read on Facebook/Gotway that the first batch of Msuper X has a strong -6 degree tilt programmed to the firmware, starting gradually already at slow speeds. Since people don’t like it, they will be removing it for the second batch, which is not ready yet (as of two days ago).

I was just about to order mine, but will have to wait now. I’m not sure if I’m ready to take the chance in them getting the second batch right, or are we introduced with a new issue. Gotway track record with firmware updates, you know.

It’s mind boggling how lost they still are sometimes, after all these years.

[Marty Backe]

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I just read on Facebook/Gotway that the first batch of Msuper X has a strong -6 degree tilt programmed to the firmware, starting gradually already at slow speeds. Since people don’t like it, they will be removing it for the second batch, which is not ready yet (as of two days ago).

I was just about to order mine, but will have to wait now. I’m not sure if I’m ready to take the chance in them getting the second batch right, or are we introduced with a new issue. Gotway track record with firmware updates, you know.

It’s mind boggling how lost they still are sometimes, after all these years.

FWIW, the one that I rode this past weekend had no such behavior.

[Xoltri]

Isn't that something that can be patched in firmware?

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Xoltri said:

Isn't that something that can be patched in firmware?

Sure, by replacing the control board. Gotway does not support updating the firmware by the user.

[mrelwood]

Chen from Green Travaling confirmed that they have units from the second batch with no tilt behavior, and strengthened pedal supports.

So, I ordered mine, but I do feel rather insecure about what did I just do!

[Xoltri]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Sure, by replacing the control board. Gotway does not support updating the firmware by the user.

Actually that seems like a big red flag, on my Kingsong I can flash through the app on my phone.  What is the reason for this?

[Marty Backe]

41 minutes ago, Xoltri said:

Actually that seems like a big red flag, on my Kingsong I can flash through the app on my phone.  What is the reason for this?

From what I have heard through the grapevine, Gotway is paranoid about their firmware being stolen. Can't say whether it's true.

[meepmeepmayer]

Do we really want remote Gotway firmware updates? For me, no firmware updates always was a safety plus

[Electroman]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Chen from Green Travaling confirmed that they have units from the second batch with no tilt behavior, and strengthened pedal supports.

So, I ordered mine, but I do feel rather insecure about what did I just do!

He told me the same, second batch and stronger pedal support/attachment, only now his site list it for $2500, I most certainly will not pay that for it especially from China.

[mezzanine]

Damn, $2500 US from China.  I haven't checked what it's going for from ewheels, but I doubt if it's that much more expensive.  

Over $2000 is out of my range for a new wheel.  As of now, I like the MSuper X more than the 18L or the Z, which I would never have predicted.  

[Electroman]

7 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

Damn, $2500 US from China.  I haven't checked what it's going for from ewheels, but I doubt if it's that much more expensive.  

Over $2000 is out of my range for a new wheel.  As of now, I like the MSuper X more than the 18L or the Z, which I would never have predicted.  

Yeah I give up on green fashion immediately if this is correct, I am probably wrong and memory like a gold fish but though I read somewhere Jason would have a very competitive price, $1900'ish but please don't take my work for it could be a different wheel and me mixing them up?