Popular Post Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) The V10F has a nice, evenly dispersed and bright light throw pattern with no "hot spots." Too bad these lights can't be angled up and down slightly and have different settings like low beams and high beams. Judging by how well Tishawn rode the 9botZ through winding traffic, it looks to be nimble enough! It probably just takes a different technique with more physical movements to get the big wheel to do what you want it to just like how different a ten speed bike is versus a moped in terms of nimbleness. People can't expect tires of such different size to behave very similarly. I'm sure the Mten3 is more squirrely than other wheels so riding technique will vary. You canna defy the laws of physics! Edited June 10, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post yourtoys7 Posted June 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) On 6/10/2018 at 12:57 AM, Jerome said: That statement embodies Ninebot's marketing strategy. They want to sell to a much larger market than "enthusiast". EUC's have been a niche market because of the difficult learning curve. The Z-line will appeal to many more potential buyers, and they will become loyal Ninebot rider's if only to avoid learning to ride other Wheels. If Ninebot comes in with a low price for the Z6 they are going to sell a lot more wheels than even the venerable E+. Gotway will eventually gobble up the "enthusiast" market, so Inmotion and King Song might be fighting for the leftovers. Just saying .. I have same view, I really liked ACM, Msuper v3s and Monster, but after few videos of Z10. I won’t look twist at GotWay again if Z10 will prove itself, which is definitely looks that way. Safety to many will win every time. I know few re-sellers in Canada dropped GotWay completely due safety/ cutouts. Edited June 12, 2018 by yourtoys7 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 15, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) On 6/10/2018 at 2:39 AM, trya said: @houseofjob thanks for the nice video! some guy on Russian forum brought it to my attention that you are running the red light a few times... I checked - and he is right Why? Deserted city? Said this elsewhere, but we're just acting like every cyclist, e-bike delivery guy & jaywalker (ie. every single New Yorker). Think a fellow Parisian ex-pat NYC rider friend said it best, "I don't usually run red lights, but since everyone in New York does it here, I do as well." On 6/10/2018 at 3:37 AM, Turbocharged said: I never said it can't be done, turning Z at higher speed is just hard, or harder for most of us, comparing to MSuper or V10F, riding at similar speed turnig the same corner. Just because Michael Schumacher can turn a car at crazy high speed in a tight corner doesn't mean that car is good at cornering for the everyday drivers, or better than any other cars. And I remember in your video, Tishawn said in the end the Z is “too stable", I don't know if he meant the same thing that most of us had when we first get on a Z, "wow it's so stable" and after making a turn "wow, it's too stable". Yes, agreed, just the way you wrote earlier, made it sound like no one could possibly do it, to which I was disagreeing. But yes, the Z is an advanced wheel for learning how to turn at speed, no doubt. On 6/10/2018 at 3:37 AM, Turbocharged said: I'd love to know more about your techniques that makes turning Z easier. When I'm done with my final Z videos, I'm working on some videos about non-traditional feet & body mechanic techniques that I've been playing around with. There's a post somewhere here (not remembering where) that I describe some of this, but totally forget where I wrote it. Main parts are riding with super wide feet (like outer feet hanging over the side edge of the pedals), so you eliminate the restriction of the Z body hitting your legs (I do this to a degree with most any wheel). Towards the end, I discovered a technique for high speed turning that I have to perfect when I finally get my actual copy of the Z, where I shift and throw my butt towards the turn direction, as if I were trying to touch my butt to the ground. If this were motocross, we would climb over the opposite bike body side of the turn and dip the knee of the turn-side leg to the ground, but since we are not riding in that position, I think it becomes trying to touch your butt to the ground (like as if you were constipated(?)). Since the Z is so resistant to minor turns, you can really throw your weight around in a way that would make you fall on a normal EUC. On 6/10/2018 at 3:37 AM, Turbocharged said: I think I used the wrong word here. Height isn't really the key here. The important things are the "height of center or mass" and the width of stance, Z has much lower center of mass compare to, lets say V10F which has a lot weight on top, therefore V10F has more leverage, is much easier to initiate a swing (easier turnging) and maintain tilt angle while in the corner (easier control), Z tends to have a strong force to pull you upright again while in the corner. Yes, all true. This is why I discovered bending your knees in a crouch also helped with turning at speed, albeit you should always bend your knees when reaching top speeds on any EUC for the most control, etc. ======== And one note on the Z handle disengage mechanism: I originally thought the Z implementation was the same buttonless design as the KS-18L implementation, but this is not true. The Z underhandle has this very stiff / hard foam throughout under it, that when pressed hard enough, will disengage the motor for lifting the wheel up. It's a little finicky, but the most sensitivity seems to be towards the back of the underhandle, as the front has a screw base to it. Z10 vs KS-18L comparison: Z10 vs KS-18L Trolley comparison: Edited June 15, 2018 by houseofjob 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 15, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) On 6/10/2018 at 4:21 PM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Judging by how well Tishawn rode the 9botZ through winding traffic, it looks to be nimble enough! It probably just takes a different technique with more physical movements to get the big wheel to do what you want it to just like how different a ten speed bike is versus a moped in terms of nimbleness. People can't expect tires of such different size to behave very similarly. I'm sure the Mten3 is more squirrely than other wheels so riding technique will vary. You canna defy the laws of physics! Exactly! IMHO, the Z is an entirely new class of wheel how it handles and rides. I can't find comparable, even with the 2.75" wide Monster. which is why I must have it Edited June 15, 2018 by houseofjob 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 5 hours ago, houseofjob said: Yes, agreed, just the way you wrote earlier, made it sound like no one could possibly do it, to which I was disagreeing. But yes, the Z is an advanced wheel for learning how to turn at speed, no doubt. It must have been my fault, the way I described it... English is not my first language after all Quote Towards the end, I discovered a technique for high speed turning that I have to perfect when I finally get my actual copy of the Z, where I shift and throw my butt towards the turn direction, as if I were trying to touch my butt to the ground. If this were motocross, we would climb over the opposite bike body side of the turn and dip the knee of the turn-side leg to the ground, but since we are not riding in that position, I think it becomes trying to touch your butt to the ground (like as if you were constipated(?)). Since the Z is so resistant to minor turns, you can really throw your weight around in a way that would make you fall on a normal EUC. I think I know what you meant. I ride the same way on Zs. I usually like to keep a as wide as possible stance, that leaves enough room between my legs for quick turning or micro adjustments. The way I ride Z, I always put more weight on my outside foot (opposite side to where I am turning) turn my body a little bit towards the opposite too, that makes "sitting into the corner" easier, I guess that is very similar to what you described as to touch your butt to the ground. It's somewhat similar to turning when I ski. This makes sudden change of direction possible when cruising at higher speed in a straight line, but it doesn't help much for me, when turning a big corner, for example a corner 90 degree or more, especially those mountain trails with 135+ degree corners, it becomes much more awkward. Make a sudden turn is not that hard once I get the hang of it, but keep it tilting and continuous turning sharply is still very challenging for me on a Z. Quote And one note on the Z handle disengage mechanism: I originally thought the Z implementation was the same buttonless design as the KS-18L implementation, but this is not true. The Z underhandle has this very stiff / hard foam throughout under it, that when pressed hard enough, will disengage the motor for lifting the wheel up. It's a little finicky, but the most sensitivity seems to be towards the back of the underhandle, as the front has a screw base to it. The anti-free spin function is kinda unreliable, but it is much much better now than it was one month earlier. you just have to be a little patient, wait for the disengaging sound then lift it up, it takes less than half a second every time. and try alway told the center part of the handle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 9 hours ago, houseofjob said: Main parts are riding with super wide feet (like outer feet hanging over the side edge of the pedals), so you eliminate the restriction of the Z body hitting your legs (I do this to a degree with most any wheel). Towards the end, I discovered a technique for high speed turning that I have to perfect when I finally get my actual copy of the Z, where I shift and throw my butt towards the turn direction, as if I were trying to touch my butt to the ground. If this were motocross, we would climb over the opposite bike body side of the turn and dip the knee of the turn-side leg to the ground, but since we are not riding in that position, I think it becomes trying to touch your butt to the ground (like as if you were constipated(?)). Since the Z is so resistant to minor turns, you can really throw your weight around in a way that would make you fall on a normal EUC. This is well explained. Sounds familiar. I have developed the same technique for the V10F. It’s possible that all the new wheels with larger tires behave this way. The wheel wants to stay upright and I feel like my body leans more than the wheel itself. Kind of like my butt shifts and drops down towards the turn. It requires riding with feet as wide as possible and not touching the pads. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 15, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2018 Z10 No Load Lift Speed Test: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 34 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Z10 No Load Lift Speed Test: What, was that??? Was that voice and cheering coming from the app/wheel? I'm confused 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beast@tanagra Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: What, was that??? Was that voice and cheering coming from the app/wheel? I'm confused Mortal Kombat!! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: What, was that??? Was that voice and cheering coming from the app/wheel? I'm confused me too. that was a scary fast run up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 15, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) Pretty sure those were sound effects added to emphasize the frightening high torque spin up before the wheel cuts off. Man, someone could lose a finger if not lifting it right. Tishawn was testing the handle cutoff mechanism, and it suddenly powered up when he grabbed the bottom of the pedal support. That must have reduced the pressure on the handle switch making the wheel think it's on the ground again so it activated the balance drive. Note to users with non-button based lift cutoff switches - do not reduce pressure on the handle in any way, shape or form. Usually you can lift the wheel while its fairly level and counter the spin up. I've done it a few times on my Ninebot One E+. As long as you know the direction the tire is spinning in, just add a slight opposite tilt to the handle, and it should slow down. If you're really good you can probably stop it. I'm not that good. Usually mine will slow and start spinning in the opposite direction really fast. It's probably not that good to do this too often as it likely stresses the motor and electronics if you change directions too quickly. Edited June 15, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 15, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: What, was that??? Was that voice and cheering coming from the app/wheel? I'm confused Sorry, it's a video game soundbed I ripped from the 90's fighting game Mortal Kombat, trying to give the boring old lift test video paradigm more flavor~ Edited June 15, 2018 by houseofjob 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, novazeus said: me too. that was a scary fast run up. Yeah, I always try to do lift tests smoothly, but this was the result over and over. Dunno if it's because of the heaviness combined with me holding a camera in the other hand, or just the sheer power of the Z (or my poor technique!). TBF, on any wheel, I’m terrible at the technique of holding and lifting up the wheel right at the balanced point where it doesn’t spin. Edited June 15, 2018 by houseofjob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, houseofjob said: Yeah, I always try to do lift tests smoothly, but this was the result over and over. Dunno if it's because of the heaviness combined with me holding a camera in the other hand, or just the sheer power of the Z (or my poor technique!). i’m glad u showed me that. i’ll be extra careful picking mine up when i get it. that is warp speed run up though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotciv Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Note to users with non-button based lift cutoff switches - do not reduce pressure on the handle in any way, shape or form. As someone who designs and develops industrial control systems and have had personal experience with Murphy’s law, that’s the first thing I’m disabling. I doubt Ninebot designed the lift cutout system with control reliable parts that meet ISO 13849-1 performance level. They might have a provision in the firmware to ignore the lift cutout when the wheel is moving, but a bug or hiccup can end up with the rider face planting. Edit: After watching the video a few times, it seems the wheel was slowing down in steps. I wonder it’s a safety feature to not completely cutout but “gracefully” face plant the rider instead of an abrupt cutout. Perhaps after Marty and Duf, have Ron ride it at full speed until it cutout. Edited June 15, 2018 by Rotciv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCMania Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I guess the video was edited to fit the sound effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourtoys7 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) For sure i will disable this feature, imagine going off sidewalk or something and bam....... the wheel is off ? Edited June 16, 2018 by yourtoys7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 16, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Wow, so there's a touch-sensitive, tap-to-mute BT Music Speaker feature to the Ninebot One Z I didn't even realize when we still had the demo unit! (FYI, the single speaker is right underneath where he's holding, and apparently, according to the Naver blog, it's not easy to mute with your shin(?) while riding) [repost from https://blog.naver.com/j28072/221296947808] Edited June 17, 2018 by houseofjob 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Wow, so there's a touch-sensitive, tap-to-mute BT Music Speaker feature to the Ninebot One Z I didn't even realize when we still had the demo unit! (FYI, the single speaker is right underneath where his holding) [repost from https://blog.naver.com/j28072/221296947808] Nice. BTW, I don't recall, does the Z10 have a warning beeper like other wheels, and if so, is it the typical piezoelectric type or does it use that speaker? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Marty Backe said: Nice. BTW, I don't recall, does the Z10 have a warning beeper like other wheels, and if so, is it the typical piezoelectric type or does it use that speaker? Yes, you'll see it in my Z10 teardown video I still have to edit. Even though I work in music & have an audio engineering (record/mix) background, I'm not well-versed in speaker construction. Maybe you can tell below? (sorry, image is a little overexposed) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, houseofjob said: Yes, you'll see it in my Z10 teardown video I still have to edit. Even though I work in music & have an audio engineering (record/mix) background, I'm not well-versed in speaker construction. Maybe you can tell below? (sorry, image is a little overexposed) Looks like a piezoelectric buzzer. And the speaker must be somewhere else? Was the beeper loud or maybe you never heard it while riding? You tore the Z10 down Now I don't know if I want to take it 10-miles into the back country 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EUCGUY Posted June 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Looks like a piezoelectric buzzer. And the speaker must be somewhere else? Was the beeper loud or maybe you never heard it while riding? You tore the Z10 down Now I don't know if I want to take it 10-miles into the back country Might be the bottom component, placed in a way to make the shell the speaker by vibrating into it 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 16, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: And the speaker must be somewhere else? See Z10 heatsink speaker / buzzer holes, and the flip side in relation: 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: Was the beeper loud or maybe you never heard it while riding? Unfortunately, I'm not like @Tishawn Fahie and have much more fear! As soon as the tiltback initiated, I was slowing down! Also, FWIW, towards the end, was riding on the latest 0.4.4 Firmware, which really neutered all system sounds across the board, as reported by @Turbocharged (power on sound, lift motor disengage sound, etc.) 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: You tore the Z10 down Now I don't know if I want to take it 10-miles into the back country LOL ?? It's you're call, but @Jason McNeil can attest to this: I am a very anal-retentive person in terms of organization, have toredown my fair share of wheels, and made sure to test ride the demo Z10 a bit, post-teardown and putting back together, to make sure everything was in order. (plus, we'd all be sad not getting a proper MB SoCal Mountain stress test! ?) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Edited August 18, 2018 by nte 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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