Ninebot One Z10 eWheels.com Demo: NYC-Style

[dbfrese]

21 hours ago, Turbocharged said:

have a Chinese friends explain procedures

None of my Chinese friends speak Chinese....

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

We've seen this with the 2.5" wide of the V10F, and how it's harder to turn on

V10F is a bit complicated to compare to other 16” wheels because of the height. In my experience the tire width (and the contact/tread profile) is what decides how the wheel turns at speed. A wider tire wants to stay upright. Turning tightly at very low speeds where you tilt the wheel between your feet, is affected mostly by the height of the highest contact point to your legs. Higher contact point also makes mounting easier and brings stability, so it’s a balance, which is up to personal preference.

16S with a 2.5” tire mod is very different to the V10F. The 16S turns a lot tighter, still feeling like a 16”. To me the V10 is quite a bit less agile than an Msuper V3, and the difference between the 2.5” 16S and Msuper is quite small.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Any idea of what Ninebot was mentioning about turning assist?  Does it angle the pedals up or increase speed a bit in turns or something?  Maybe with the low, heavier, centrally positioned mass with batteries in the hub area and larger rotating mass of the spinning tire that might make it more stable in the middle and difficult to turn whereas with batteries more on the sides the extra mass there helps?  Or it could mainly be the heavy tire like a big gyroscope is harder to tilt versus a skinny, lighter one.

It sounds like the Ninebot Z is more like a Harley than a sportbike.  We don't see too many Harley's tearing it up at the race track slaloms.  Are you doing a body lean, CoG weight transfer, upper twist and arm extension to help with the higher speed turns?  On the Tesla I've been trying to add arm repositioning to help manage high speed curves.  I'll bring up my arm on the side I'm turning towards and trail my other arm back while crouching down a bit almost as if I'm trying to skim the ground  with the extended hand.  Kinda like these people around the curves...

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Jerome]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Posting for @Citi Wheel. Early SAT AM Z10 Run down Midtown:

 

What is the person filming your ride, riding?

[Jerome]

1 hour ago, Turbocharged said:

A fun fact, we find beginners learn much quicker and had better success if they learn using Zs, however, after they can roam around easily on a Z, they still fall off right away on almost any other wheel, ONE C/E/S or V8 etc. Z is very very stable at low speed, and the low body hight make it very nimble too, at low speed.

That statement embodies Ninebot's marketing strategy. They want to sell to a much larger market than "enthusiast". EUC's have been a niche market because of the difficult learning curve. The Z-line will appeal to many more potential buyers, and they will become loyal Ninebot rider's if only to avoid learning to ride other Wheels. If Ninebot comes in with a low price for the Z6 they are going to sell a lot more wheels than even the venerable E+.  Gotway will eventually gobble up the "enthusiast" market, so Inmotion and King Song might be fighting for the leftovers. Just saying ..

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

V10F is a bit complicated to compare to other 16” wheels because of the height. In my experience the tire width (and the contact/tread profile) is what decides how the wheel turns at speed. A wider tire wants to stay upright. Turning tightly at very low speeds where you tilt the wheel between your feet, is affected mostly by the height of the highest contact point to your legs. Higher contact point also makes mounting easier and brings stability, so it’s a balance, which is up to personal preference.

16S with a 2.5” tire mod is very different to the V10F. The 16S turns a lot tighter, still feeling like a 16”. To me the V10 is quite a bit less agile than an Msuper V3, and the difference between the 2.5” 16S and Msuper is quite small.

Hmmm... interesting points/opinions ?

This is why I go wide legs on most big EUCs, so my legs touch as little of the pads/body as much as possible (only for mounting really).

 Allows me to rock the wheel side to side, regardless of diameter/width.

 

59 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Any idea of what Ninebot was mentioning about turning assist?  Does it angle the pedals up or increase speed a bit in turns or something?  Maybe with the low, heavier, centrally positioned mass with batteries in the hub area and larger rotating mass of the spinning tire that might make it more stable in the middle and difficult to turn whereas with batteries more on the sides the extra mass there helps?  Or it could mainly be the heavy tire like a big gyroscope is harder to tilt versus a skinny, lighter one.

Not sure, didn't notice anything in the app about turning assist, or feel anything in the Z10's response in turning that would be interpreted as so.

Judging by how they term the softer, swingy, MSuperV3S+ style braking, I would imagine it would be pedal level/hardness signature settings (anti-dip?) when turning, ala how InMotion has combatted pedal dip and allowed you to reset it back to factory in the app when it drifts.

But I'll try to pay that some mind in the remaining Z10 NYC testing wrap-up days and report back if I find any observations!

 

59 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

It sounds like the Ninebot Z is more like a Harley than a sportbike.  We don't see too many Harley's tearing it up at the race track slaloms.  Are you doing a body lean, CoG weight transfer, upper twist and arm extension to help with the higher speed turns?  On the Tesla I've been trying to add arm repositioning to help manage high speed curves.  I'll bring up my arm on the side I'm turning towards and trail my other arm back while crouching down a bit almost as if I'm trying to skim the ground  with the extended hand.  Kinda like these people around the curves...

Yes, the arm swings, side-to-side hip-driving, that all helps accentuate the motion to turn this boulder of an EUC for sure!

I think that's why @Tishawn Fahie does his signature arm swinging when at speed.

 

33 minutes ago, Jerome said:

What is the person filming your ride, riding?

@Citi Wheel is riding my KS-18S, mostly seated and holding my poll-mounted Sony FDR-X3000 action camera.

 

 

[houseofjob]

@novazeus interesting idea, need to explore that.

I've toyed with maybe buying up a bunch of KS16's (reliable) to do an NYC EUC rental service (there was a guy doing out-of-towner Boosted Board rentals... not sure if he still is).

 

[Mark Lee]

From what I gathered, sub 150 lb riders in China is having much difficulties maneuvering Z10... For more stout riders over 200 lbs leveraging this unit may not be a problem, thus finally custom made for their stature. 

[novazeus]

14 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@novazeus interesting idea, need to explore that.

I've toyed with maybe buying up a bunch of KS16's (reliable) to do an NYC EUC rental service (there was a guy doing out-of-towner Boosted Board rentals... not sure if he still is).

 

i haven’t ridden the Z10 yet obviously, and what do i know, i’m still a beginner, but of the wheels i’ve tried(the ones i bought) the best overall package for the nyc euc tours would be the Inmotion V10F. 

i bet u could work out an arrangement with Inmotion that would promote their product and create sales(might be a fly and try and buy tour). 

try a weekend tour thing. it really is the best way to do nyc is with somebody that lives there. maybe one weekend a month. meet u and @Tishawn Fahie and others. u got a good little concentration up there. if i didn’t have Bob and the ranch, i’d love to use some of my airline miles and spend saturday and sunday zipping around the city on pre-determined itineraries.

nice thing about the city, and i would be on the road with the cabs, none of the vehicles can go fast because of the congestion and nobody is probably texting because they’d be getting honked at.

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, Mark Lee said:

From what I gathered, sub 150 lb riders in China is having much difficulties maneuvering Z10... For more stout riders over 200 lbs leveraging this unit may not be a problem, thus finally custom made for their stature. 

Hmmmmm.... the only thing that bursts this theory is that @Tishawn Fahie is around 150-155 lbs if I'm not mistaken. He looks pretty fine handling the Z10 to me! ?? (this is also why he always seems to fly faster on every wheel he touches!)

[Mark Lee]

1 minute ago, houseofjob said:

Hmmmmm.... the only thing that bursts this theory is that @Tishawn Fahie is around 150-155 lbs if I'm not mistaken. He looks pretty fine handling the Z10 to me! ?? (this is also why he always seems to fly faster on every wheel he touches!)

let's face it @Tishawn Fahie is not your average rider.  From one of his videos he claimed he rides 15 miles to work and 15 miles back everyday... He and you are on whole another level... 

[houseofjob]

@novazeus oh, I just found this, didn't realize our local dealer here EUC.NYC / Dmitry does rentals: http://www.euc.nyc/euc-rental/

And you're always welcome to hit me/the group up! We'll point you in the right way and/or setup a group ride to explore together, etc.

And riding with the NYC E-Boarding Collective group, as @Tishawn Fahie does for his weekly YouTub vlog, is an experience unto itself as well, strong recommend!

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, Mark Lee said:

let's face it @Tishawn Fahie is not your average rider.  From one of his videos he claimed he rides 15 miles to work and 15 miles back everyday... He and you are on whole another level... 

Ha! Thanks, dunno about me, but yes, @Tishawn Fahie is an outlier / special / (crazy) indeed!

[novazeus]

24 minutes ago, Mark Lee said:

. For more stout riders over 200 lbs

yeah, me discovering walmart curbside grocery delivery for me and Bob, hasn’t been exactly slimming for me. when @houseofjob was talking about @Tishawn Fahie swinging his arms, i was thinking, well yeah, they don’t weigh anything. i don’t bat an eyelash, i can just push down with my feet. i don’t even move them.

like that martial art akido i think it is where u just move ur mass around with ur mind. i am stoned to some degree always when i ride. that’s why i love the V10F, it reads my mind so i don’t have to do anything.

Edited June 10, 2018 by novazeus

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Any idea of what Ninebot was mentioning about turning assist?

Could it be a translation bogey, and they meant the braking assist that we now do know exists as a switch in the app?

[novazeus]

@houseofjob i hope u spend some quality time with ur V10F and if it’s scraping, bad bearing whatever, get it fixed and get to know it because you being very experienced, i’d like to hear your opinion. i think, kinda like the 18s, u gotta spend some quality time with the V10F and play with the settings to really appreciate the refinements Inmotion has put into it.

tn i took it for a couple of laps and on my turn at the gate i heard some awful scrape sound but i’m hoping it was a stick that got sucked up in there. it went away.

if i could get away, i definitely come visit. waay safer than the ‘80’s.

don’t be surprised if other forum members don’t take u up on ur guide offer. only way to do nyc.

[trya]

@houseofjob thanks for the nice video! some guy on Russian forum brought it to my attention that you are running the red light a few times... I checked - and he is right  Why? Deserted city?

[Turbocharged]

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

I respectfully disagree, as this is not my experience (nor is it with @Tishawn Fahie, as evidenced in the @Citi Wheel video) with the Z.

I've been able to turn more than adequately near the 20kph/12mph area, and while I can't make the sharp turns yet I would like closer to 45kph/28.6mph that I can with thinner tire EUCs, I take that as a challenge to develop a technique how to do so, as I've done with my previous foot heel-to-pivoting techniques.

Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean I can't, or it's impossible to do in general. (think about all the people who give up on learning an EUC in general, saying that it's impossible)

I never said it can't be done, turning Z at higher speed is just hard, or harder for most of us, comparing to MSuper or V10F, riding at similar speed turnig the same corner. Just because Michael Schumacher can turn a car at crazy high speed in a tight corner doesn't mean that car is good at cornering for the everyday drivers, or better than any other cars. And I remember in your video, Tishawn said in the end the Z is “too stable", I don't know if he meant the same thing that most of us had when we first get on a Z, "wow it's so stable" and after making a turn "wow, it's too stable".

 I'd love to know more about your techniques that makes turning Z easier. 

I always forget to mention this, but some testers find when riding backwards, taillight facing forward, turning can be made easier, I don't see much difference at higher speed, but it does alter the feel a little bit, you can try it, just for fun.

Quote

Yes, agreed, although, IMHO it has less to do with the low body height (the Z surprisingly wasn't that much taller than the V10F, as I originally had thought).

Every time I was swapping back to normal width wheels after riding the Z, it felt like the EUC body was flopping around too much. Reaffirms my conviction to never ride 2.125" wide ever again!!!!

I think I used the wrong word here. Height isn't really the key here. The important things are the "height of center or mass" and the width of stance, Z has much lower center of mass compare to, lets say V10F which has a lot weight on top, therefore V10F has more leverage, is much easier to initiate a swing (easier turnging) and maintain tilt angle while in the corner (easier control), Z tends to have a strong force to pull you upright again while in the corner.

[Turbocharged]

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

It sounds like the Ninebot Z is more like a Harley than a sportbike.  

To my experience, This is actually a quite accurate description.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Turbocharged

[Turbocharged]

2 hours ago, Jerome said:

That statement embodies Ninebot's marketing strategy. They want to sell to a much larger market than "enthusiast". EUC's have been a niche market because of the difficult learning curve. The Z-line will appeal to many more potential buyers, and they will become loyal Ninebot rider's if only to avoid learning to ride other Wheels. If Ninebot comes in with a low price for the Z6 they are going to sell a lot more wheels than even the venerable E+.  Gotway will eventually gobble up the "enthusiast" market, so Inmotion and King Song might be fighting for the leftovers. Just saying ..

Most Enthusiast are always customers of GW, and I don't see that's gonna change anytime soon, they are good at it and they are brave... you can ride their wheel until cut off and it's all your choice, only if GW can make their wheels prettier ... well.

Ninebot One Z is mostly designed for enthusiatic Ninebot fans. and Now they have a good coverage of the acutlay not too big market, beginners tend to like smaller, cheaper, lighter wheels with good appearance, One A/S have it covered, nicely, if you really want a slightly more stable wheel with trolley handle, E+ is still there, Z can cover the advanced user group, getting some KS or InMotion customers to switch side. Enthusiasts, well, if they are interested in Z, good, if not, no problem too.

[Vikas]

I used to have an e+ and it cut on me twice with a total of 2 motherboards. So I really hope this z10 doesnt fingers crossed.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Vikas

[Duf]

This will be quite an interesting contrast when the wheel comes to Florida in terms of testing strategy.

[RockyTop]

9 minutes ago, Duf said:

This will be quite an interesting contrast when the wheel comes to Florida in terms of testing strategy.

On the Ninebot, Please adjust the tire pressure.  They have been saying that the wheel rides rough and bouncy.  Not bad just not what they expected.  Given the size of the tire, less pressure is needed.  It only takes 3 to 6 psi in a 1/4 mile dragster because the tires are so big. I am thinking 20 psi or even less in that giant Ninebot tire.  Thanks for your review in advance. 

[eddiemoy]

10 hours ago, novazeus said:

i was just playing with balancing at slow or no speed, and the V10F is waay easier to balance than the 18s. 

 

 

10 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Based on how easy it is to roll at a crawl on the Z10 (almost like cheating!), I'm beginning to sense that as an EUC tire dimension approaches a 1-to-1 width = diameter, it gains this ease of stability when rolling slow (see the 10" x 2.75" MTen3 or the now fatter 16" x 2.5" V10F that you mention!) 

 

going slow is something i wanted to touch on.  It is related to how big the wheel is, or how "nimble" the wheel is.  The smaller the diameter of the wheel, the more nimble it is and the slower you can go.  it has to do with physics, angular momentum and moment of inertia.  Easy thing to try is to sit on an office chair, spin it with your hands out reached, then try pulling your hands in and out see what happens.  You speed up in your turns when your hands are closer to your body, smaller diameter vs slowing down in your spin when you have your hands reached out.  There is no one pushing you faster, it is just physics.  Smaller wheel diameter wheels allow for you to do the changes necessary to keep up right a lot easier.

It is really hard to go slow on the 18S, but i can go slower than walking on the 16.  I can go slower even still on the airwheel X3, 14" with very little effort.

[houseofjob]

Z10 Tail & Head Lights Demo: