Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Sooo @cloudust beat me to the punch in posting my initial impressions YouTube vid on the forums here.... the Ninebot Z thirst is real! ? LOL First, as much as I always dole praise on @Jason McNeil of eWheels.com, I must do so again: Thank God we have you in the US as our local PEV dealer and thank you for so graciously agreeing to ship this demo Ninebot Z unit on a 4-city US tour to your loyal fan customer base. Call me biased, yes, but I cannot help it: I've been screwed over by enough Joe Schmo middle man EUC sellers and cold-shoulder-go-to-your-distributor EUC co's to know not to take YOU for granted (and for those who don't know, one of my long-drawn ordeals is what led me to Jason in the first place, helping me on a wheel issue where the wheel was never purchased from Jason/eWheels). I will post as much nuanced content as I can on the Z to this thread throughout the week we have the Z here in NYC, complete with my incoherent ramblings and self-manufactured terminologies! (not joking, they really could be incoherent, I'm running on 2-3 hours sleep, neglecting my day job as we speak, each day we have this wheel... ?) Catching everyone up to speed, I'm on Day 3 (approx. 50 miles in) of extensive daily city riding with the eWheels.com demo Z10 (trying to shake off the initial euphoria, as is the case with all new wheels). And please remember to keep in mind, these are my rider biases (if you don't know of me or can't read my signature on mobile): I ❤️ big & wide wheels. Bigger & wider the better! (err, maybe not as big as that DIY 26" KS18 of past cult fame) That said, I've owned (not simply tested) almost every size, shape, and major manufacturer EUC model now (see my sig), and that's on purpose, because you'll never truly know a wheel without putting in the mileage, all models are slightly-to-drastically different. I ride daily, rain or shine. My only walking comes in the form of running 3-10 miles a day. I'm not a hill or offroad guy. I live in the capitol of Flatland City, Urban America, New York fudgin' City. Besides, @Marty Backe does a fantastic job with that on his socials. You might have read, but I have weird theories on riding on every nook and cranny of my pedals with my feet (wide, offset, edges, tip-toes) or my butt (seated, yeah!) except the standard set-it-and-forget-it parallel 11's foot positioning. I want every bit of leverage and angle of bending / carving I can get out of every wheel I ride dammit! (I also realize this is not the case with most riders on this forum.) I am not the riskiest of risk-taking risky top speed EUC riders. Yes, I do occasionally hit 30mph maxes, but the stars and the moons have to align. My average speed in this city carving stop-and-go car traffic is ~26mph, 28-30mph for passing car speed. I am 175 lbs rider weight (working on getting that back to 165 lbs *smh), so probably just a smidge under 190 lbs with backpack weight. Now,.... Let's tackle some of the heavy-hitters right off the bat, shall we? Because that's really what everyone's itching to [somewhat] resolve/inform, right? (again, all my own opinions, feel free to agree with nothing I say because I have no clue what I'm talking about ??) ===================================== PART I The Main Attraction: 4.1" Wide 18" Ninebot-branded CST Tubeless Tire Shock Absorbing? Unfortunately, not as I would have hoped ?, especially being in a pothole-infested city like NYC. It's not terrible though, and being super wide at 4.1", as long as you're not hitting the kind of bumps that make you catch small air, the overall massive dense weight of the Z10 (more on that later) will plant you to the ground in a very stable manor. Any hint of air you catch though, is met with a very solid thud (no bounce back) that if you don't cushion with your knees can reverberate up your being. Letting out some of the air did help, and as we test ride more, I will possibly try deflating a bit more to see if this gains more absorption/bounce (no, I did not measure PSI, but it felt very much like the max rated 32 or higher out of the box). My theory: the culprit here is the tire composition (yes, those who know me, know I champion this subject). Being tubeless with thick consistency (not sure how much ratio of rubber there is in there), I think it's very reminiscent of how e-kick scooter folk hate solid rubber tires for the same lack of absorption you usually get with a pneumatic air tire, especially in the absence of proper suspension. Maneuverability? This is always tricky, because my comfort with turning / carving bigger wheels is not necessarily your comfort with turning / carving bigger wheels (if you even want to take an effort to [learn] doing so). As with all bigger diameter wheels in the 18"+ tire category, the common refrain is "use more upper body to turn". Well, considering the Z10 sports now a 4.1" wide, at least ~50% wider than most EUC tires made today (Even the 2.75" wide 22" Monster tire!), you might need more than just the usual increased upper body / hip twists to achieve deep carves (obviously, body dimension/physics dependent). For me, my feet are constantly moving and pivoting, sometimes hanging off the pedal at non-traditional angles, so I can achieve deep carves on the Z quite satisfactorily (yes, albeit with more body movement). But I can see how set-it-and-forget-it, close to the shell, parallel 11 feet, "I want the wheel to turn by itself" guys will say it's less maneuverable than smaller diameter wheels. The dense 55 lb wheel weight & short stubby OG Ninebot pedals also compound this I suspect. Stability? This is where the Z10 surprised me, and in a good way, the best way! (though we heard brief early reports of this quality in passing) Quite logically, the Z10 having a wider tire, though being slightly curved and not flat (like the OneWheel tire or a car tire) gives you a wider base, which equals more stability and more distance traveled falling one direction before rider-correcting to the opposite direction. Combined with the greater mass density, which contributes to a slower initial momentum, you can really (with proper technique) control this wheel at slower speeds to the point of crawling next to pedestrians, and switching pivot axis really quickly. While in motion, the wide combined with the mass equates into hugging the road over small bumps better, only catching air for the more jagged and bigger divots (though again, the dense rubber tire composition does not absorb shocks). Think of a boulder chasing Indiana Jones or something similar (am I dating myself? Lol) Acceleration / Braking Acceleration With the Z10, Ninebot has re-introduced hardness pedal sensitivity settings again from the One 16" series days ( @Tishawn Fahie had reminded me that they had removed this for the 14" S2/S1/A1 series for some unknown reason). This time, the settings are only from 0 to 4 (as opposed to I think the 16" series was 0-10), with 0 again being the hardest response. Unfortunately, this is not the top tier stiffness/hardness of a 0-setting 16" One or 14" S2, but I would equate the 0-setting Z10 to around slightly less hard a response than a sport-mode Gotway Tesla, and comparable or slightly harder than my Ride-Mode KS18S (was that the name of the hardest KS setting? haven't opened up my crappy KS app in ages Lol - still don't want to!). However, due to the mass, to really initiate from-rest acceleration, especially uphill, you need to swing more weight force into the Z10 pedals, almost reminiscent to the way you need to really swing the sport-mode MSuperV3 pedals to initiate acceleration from rest (albeit, with more resistance to the Z, not in that glidy, floaty, effortless Gotway thing the MSuperV3 & Monster motor do). In other words, the power and acceleration in the ballpark of other 2kW nominal motor models IS there (just below the 84V Gotways), but you have to work / lean for it more. Also, interestingly, though it takes time for me to gain trust with any new wheel, so far I was not able to overcurrent/overcharge (ie. fast acceleration uphill) the Z10, whereas I was able to do so on the V10F. Braking I think the Z10 is the first EUC where you can specifically select the braking behavior, called "Assisted-braking" in the app (see my Z10 Initial Impressions YouTube below). It's just a toggle between enabled and disabled. When enabled, leaning back to brake will have little tension, more swing. I guess this supposedly "assists" your braking, but I was never a fan of that feel (see MSuperV3, reportedly SoloWheel does/did this too), so I've been constantly toggling that feature off (the demo Z10 keeps forgetting just this one particular setting for some reason; they might have fixed this in the updated FW that the NB app keeps prompting me to update too, but I have bad memories of Ninebot One 16" Firmware-gate: Faceplanting of the Ninebots a couple(?) of years back, so we'll just keep ignoring that FW prompt, thank you very much!). So with the braking 'assist' turned off, braking is sufficiently hard IMHO, and every NYC rider who's been on the Z10 so far has agreed with me, FWIW. Heaviness I brought this up at the end of my Z10 Initial Impressions vid, but the Z10 has to be (might be wrong) the heaviest 18" EUC at ~55 lbs, and not packing a very efficient battery-to-wheel weight-ratio, as my KS18S with an extra 680Wh more battery is 4 lbs lighter. This heaviness factor is both a minus (obvious lifting implications) and plus (the aforementioned grounded/planted-ness for bumps) IMHO. Walk-up apartment residents and high heighted car trunk owners beware! Not really sure why this is, but my guess is the tubeless tire & motor weight (could be wrong). Alright, gonna part-by-part more impressions/observations + video content progressively on this thread, as this short analysis got dense real quick! If you stuck by this long, your Ninebot Z thirst is strong! Edited June 8, 2018 by houseofjob 19 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roo Williams Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 Great post! Cheers Chris. I'm glad I'm one of those in NYC that gets to try on Sunday 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kens Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Awesome! The Z series looks like the perfect top end wheel if.. we ignores other smaller manufacture like Kingsong and Gotway.. It's like Macbook Pro. It looks really nice and high end but there are other alternative that have more of most everything else for the same price. It like curses to enthusiast. Can't wait for Msuper X review! Hopefully it'll be worth the wait! Edited June 8, 2018 by Kens 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 8, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Z10 Size comparisons with my current rotation: Edited June 8, 2018 by houseofjob 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Sooo @cloudust beat me to the punch in posting my initial impressions YouTube vid on the forums here.... the Ninebot Z thirst is real! ? LOL First, as much as I always dole praise on @Jason McNeil of eWheels.com, I must do so again: Thank God we have you in the US as our local PEV dealer and thank you for so graciously agreeing to ship this demo Ninebot Z unit on a 4-city US tour to your loyal fan customer base. Call me biased, yes, but I cannot help it: I've been screwed over by enough Joe Schmo middle man EUC sellers and cold-shoulder-go-to-your-distributor EUC co's to know not to take YOU for granted (and for those who don't know, one of my long-drawn ordeals is what led me to Jason in the first place, helping me on a wheel issue where the wheel was never purchased from Jason/eWheels). I will post as much nuanced content as I can on the Z to this thread throughout the week we have the Z here in NYC, complete with my incoherent ramblings and self-manufactured terminologies! (not joking, they really could be incoherent, I'm running on 2-3 hours sleep, neglecting my day job as we speak, each day we have this wheel... ?) Catching everyone up to speed, I'm on Day 3 (approx. 50 miles in) of extensive daily city riding with the eWheels.com demo Z10 (trying to shake off the initial euphoria, as is the case with all new wheels). And please remember to keep in mind, these are my rider biases (if you don't know of me or can't read my signature on mobile): I ❤️ big & wide wheels. Bigger & wider the better! (err, maybe not as big as that DIY 26" KS18 of past cult fame) That said, I've owned (not simply tested) almost every size, shape, and major manufacturer EUC model now (see my sig), and that's on purpose, because you'll never truly know a wheel without putting in the mileage, all models are slightly-to-drastically different. I ride daily, rain or shine. My only walking comes in the form of running 3-10 miles a day. I'm not a hill or offroad guy. I live in the capitol of Flatland City, Urban America, New York fudgin' City. Besides, @Marty Backe does a fantastic job with that on his socials. You might have read, but I have weird theories on riding on every nook and cranny of my pedals with my feet (wide, offset, edges, tip-toes) or my butt (seated, yeah!) except the standard set-it-and-forget-it parallel 11's foot positioning. I want every bit of leverage and angle of bending / carving I can get out of every wheel I ride dammit! (I also realize this is not the case with most riders on this forum.) I am not the riskiest of risk-taking risky top speed EUC riders. Yes, I do occasionally hit 30mph maxes, but the stars and the moons have to align. My average speed in this city carving stop-and-go car traffic is ~26mph, 28-30mph for passing car speed. I am 175 lbs rider weight (working on getting that back to 165 lbs *smh), so probably just a smidge under 190 lbs with backpack weight. Now,.... Let's tackle some of the heavy-hitters right off the bat, shall we? Because that's really what everyone's itching to [somewhat] resolve/inform, right? (again, all my own opinions, feel free to agree with nothing I say because I have no clue what I'm talking about ??) ===================================== PART I The Main Attraction: 4.1" Wide 18" Ninebot-branded CST Tubeless Tire Shock Absorbing? Unfortunately, not as I would have hoped ?, especially being in a pothole-infested city like NYC. It's not terrible though, and being super wide at 4.1", as long as you're not hitting the kind of bumps that make you catch small air, the overall massive dense weight of the Z10 (more on that later) will plant you to the ground in a very stable manor. Any hint of air you catch though, is met with a very solid thud (no bounce back) that if you don't cushion with your knees can reverberate up your being. Letting out some of the air did help, and as we test ride more, I will possibly try deflating a bit more to see if this gains more absorption/bounce (no, I did not measure PSI, but it felt very much like the max rated 32 or higher out of the box). My theory: the culprit here is the tire composition (yes, those who know me, know I champion this subject). Being tubeless with thick consistency (not sure how much ratio of rubber there is in there), I think it's very reminiscent of how e-kick scooter folk hate solid rubber tires for the same lack of absorption you usually get with a pneumatic air tire, especially in the absence of proper suspension. Maneuverability? This is always tricky, because my comfort with turning / carving bigger wheels is not necessarily your comfort with turning / carving bigger wheels (if you even want to take an effort to [learn] doing so). As with all bigger diameter wheels in the 18"+ tire category, the common refrain is "use more upper body to turn". Well, considering the Z10 sports now a 4.1" wide, at least ~50% wider than most EUC tires made today (Even the 2.75" wide 22" Monster tire!), you might need more than just the usual increased upper body / hip twists to achieve deep carves (obviously, body dimension/physics dependent). For me, my feet are constantly moving and pivoting, sometimes hanging off the pedal at non-traditional angles, so I can achieve deep carves on the Z quite satisfactorily (yes, albeit with more body movement). But I can see how set-it-and-forget-it, close to the shell, parallel 11 feet, "I want the wheel to turn by itself" guys will say it's less maneuverable than smaller diameter wheels. The dense 55 lb wheel weight & short stubby OG Ninebot pedals also compound this I suspect. Stability? This is where the Z10 surprised me, and in a good way, the best way! (though we heard brief early reports of this quality in passing) Quite logically, the Z10 having a wider tire, though being slightly curved and not flat (like the OneWheel tire or a car tire) gives you a wider base, which equals more stability and more distance traveled falling one direction before rider-correcting to the opposite direction. Combined with the greater mass density, which contributes to a slower initial momentum, you can really (with proper technique) control this wheel at slower speeds to the point of crawling next to pedestrians, and switching pivot axis really quickly. While in motion, the wide combined with the mass equates into hugging the road over small bumps better, only catching air for the more jagged and bigger divots (though again, the dense rubber tire composition does not absorb shocks). Think of a boulder chasing Indiana Jones or something similar (am I dating myself? Lol) Acceleration / Braking Acceleration With the Z10, Ninebot has re-introduced hardness pedal sensitivity settings again from the One 16" series days ( @Tishawn Fahie had reminded me that they had removed this for the 14" S2/S1/A1 series for some unknown reason). This time, the settings are only from 0 to 4 (as opposed to I think the 16" series was 0-10), with 0 again being the hardest response. Unfortunately, this is not the top tier stiffness/hardness of a 0-setting 16" One or 14" S2, but I would equate the 0-setting Z10 to around slightly less hard a response than a sport-mode Gotway Tesla, and comparable or slightly harder than my Ride-Mode KS18S (was that the name of the hardest KS setting? haven't opened up my crappy KS app in ages Lol - still don't want to!). However, due to the mass, to really initiate from-rest acceleration, especially uphill, you need to swing more weight force into the Z10 pedals, almost reminiscent to the way you need to really swing the sport-mode MSuperV3 pedals to initiate acceleration from rest (albeit, with more resistance to the Z, not in that glidy, floaty, effortless Gotway thing the MSuperV3 & Monster motor do). In other words, the power and acceleration in the ballpark of other 2kW nominal motor models IS there (just below the 84V Gotways), but you have to work / lean for it more. Also, interestingly, though it takes time for me to gain trust with any new wheel, so far I was not able to overcurrent/overcharge (ie. fast acceleration uphill) the Z10, whereas I was able to do so on the V10F. Braking I think the Z10 is the first EUC where you can specifically select the braking behavior, called "Assisted-braking" in the app (see my Z10 Initial Impressions YouTube below). It's just a toggle between enabled and disabled. When enabled, leaning back to brake will have little tension, more swing. I guess this supposedly "assists" your braking, but I was never a fan of that feel (see MSuperV3, reportedly SoloWheel does/did this too), so I've been constantly toggling that feature off (the demo Z10 keeps forgetting just this one particular setting for some reason; they might have fixed this in the updated FW that the NB app keeps prompting me to update too, but I have bad memories of Ninebot One 16" Firmware-gate: Faceplanting of the Ninebots a couple(?) of years back, so we'll just keep ignoring that FW prompt, thank you very much!). So with the braking 'assist' turned off, braking is sufficiently hard IMHO, and every NYC rider who's been on the Z10 so far has agreed with me, FWIW. Heaviness I brought this up at the end of my Z10 Initial Impressions vid, but the Z10 has to be (might be wrong) the heaviest 18" EUC at ~55 lbs, and not packing a very efficient battery-to-wheel weight-ratio, as my KS18S with an extra 680Wh more battery is 4 lbs lighter. This heaviness factor is both a minus (obvious lifting implications) and plus (the aforementioned grounded/planted-ness for bumps) IMHO. Walk-apartment residents and high heighted car trunk owners beware! Not really sure why this is, but my guess is the tubeless tire & motor weight (could be wrong). Alright, gonna part-by-part more impressions/observations + video content progressively on this thread, as this short analysis got dense real quick! If you stuck by this long, your Ninebot Z thirst is strong! Fantastic report. Look forward to more commentary. Since our riding weight is the same, I hope you can do some kind of range test, which I'll be doing too. Then we'll have some comparable numbers to evaluate. And let us know what you think about the trolley handle, lights, etc., etc., BTW, what app are you using? I hope there's a working Android version. I was never able to get a working Android app for the V10F while I had it. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kens Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Z10 Size comparisons with my current rotation: Those LED are lovely ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esper Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Fantastic reports. What can you tell us about the operating temperature. Did it ever overheat for you during your time riding it? Are the cooling fans loud or audible? And last, what was your impression on the headlight? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieV Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Excellent report, @houseofjob. Wish I could make it to the demo but can't due to scheduling conflict. So if you had to choose between the Ninebot Z10 or the Inmotion V10f, what's your choice? Or rather, if someone were trying to decide between the two to serve as their only general-purpose wheel in an urban/suburban environment, which would you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 well this shows you how the z10 is on movability . i couldn't do that on a busy street though but i don't have a choice in the UK? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 8, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Fantastic report. Look forward to more commentary. Thanks! Looking forward to your Z10 hill-of-death test haha 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Since our riding weight is the same, I hope you can do some kind of range test, which I'll be doing too. Then we'll have some comparable numbers to evaluate. Hmmm... not a huge fan of range tests, but if time allows, will try. The issue is though, that the wheel charges super slow on the stock 2A charger included (any wheel would) with no fast charging solution since the plug is a rare, maybe proprietary, Segway plug. 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: And let us know what you think about the trolley handle, lights, etc., etc., The Z10 trolley is serviceable, but IMHO, a tall, thinnish telescoping trolley cannot satisfyingly handle this much Z10 weight, in this MSuperV3-style, perpendicular oriented manner (one of my least favorite trolley orientations, right next to the Ninebot One 16" series unicorn trolley). While trolleying, the wheel wants to lean right or left. The telescoping nature of the trolley makes it a bit rickety, and @Tishawn Fahie pointed out to me (hadn't given it that much notice prior) that there is no locking spring-ball type deal to fix in place, thus no button either, ala V8 trolley (there are clicks to each telescoping segment and it's not totally loose and sliding FWIW). The build of the trolley itself feels like it would be fairly sturdy on a lighter weight wheel though. The telescoping segments are similar to the V8 trolley's aluminum telescoping segments, and the handle and base/parking stand is a very sturdily thick plastic/PVC type material(? - sorry not good with knowing construct material). One design cue I did notice is that the slanted Z10 trolley lends itself to slide down then grab the grab handle in one fell swoop, cool design-functional aesthetic! The Z10 headlight LEDs are good and bright (constantly-on, rectangular Daylight Running Lamp LED, with 2 LED headlight throws turned on by a long press of the non-metallic mechanical power button), but the InMotion V10F ground-throw+headlight beam is still king of the hill for brightness and lighting your path (throw). The Z10 taillight is nice, big, red and visible, and flickers when braking (ala InMotion taillights). Plus the inner spinning tire-centered LED's are very visible as well (user-customizeable with default patterns and user-definable color patterns in the NB app). But I'm trying to make another video of all or some of this as well to post. 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: BTW, what app are you using? I hope there's a working Android version. I was never able to get a working Android app for the V10F while I had it. I'm using the latest Ninebot iOS app on an iPhone X with latest OS. Ninebot is historically very good with a clean-cut, simple and functional design, and updated well across platforms, both Android & iOS (like a real mobile developer.... probably the best of all the EUC companies for keeping their app clean and fuctional; remember, Ninebot has a ton of money through their XiaoMi backing, plus the Segway resources side). They recently updated both platforms for the Z, you can get the Android version here. 1 hour ago, Esper said: Fantastic reports. What can you tell us about the operating temperature. Did it ever overheat for you during your time riding it? Are the cooling fans loud or audible? And last, what was your impression on the headlight? Thanks! I live nowhere near tropical climates; NYC is a bit off and on chilly this week actually. Plus, again, Flatland Metropolis capital. As a whole in my 3 years of EUC, I've only heard of one fellow rider having wheels overheat in the area, and that was really a combination of being a heavyweight + hard style aggressive riding. I've yet to hear any fan so far in the Z10, and haven't monitored temperature, as I've never really had a problem with that on any of my wheels owned, but don't ride in long prolonged stretches, preferring to make short connected trips, then take indoor A/C mall/store brakes to preserve my wheels. I commented above on the headlight. 39 minutes ago, RichieV said: Excellent report, @houseofjob. Wish I could make it to the demo but can't due to scheduling conflict. So if you had to choose between the Ninebot Z10 or the Inmotion V10f, what's your choice? Or rather, if someone were trying to decide between the two to serve as their only general-purpose wheel in an urban/suburban environment, which would you recommend? Thanks! Crappy you can't join us this time around again ? Both are so different, and I really can only speak for myself, so the wide + the faster 28mph would have the Z10 winning for me (remember though, it's still relatively early, as I've ridden only 3, albeit full riding days. This is really a product of my surroundings though: bad potholed streets, and having to travel amongst 25-30mph stop-and-go car traffic. Also, as much as I love the V10F, when working, I too am exhibiting the scraping issue that some of the pre-order V10F buyers are going through (obviously puts a sour taste in my mouth for this argument). Oh, and I pick the Z10 also because I'm hoping there's a bouncier 18" x 4.1" tire replacement alternative! Edited June 8, 2018 by houseofjob 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Love the feedback about the tire performance of the Z10. The biggest potential feature for me was the theoretical shock absorbing benefit of the wide/tubeless tire, but it sounds like that's been disappointing across reviews. I think I must have had a misconception about how the tubeless design would function. I figured the lower PSI it allows would be the key to improving the ability of the tire to deal with potholes and would therefore increase the safety margin of the Z series significantly over other wheels. If my damned V8 had even a slightly bigger battery, I would have been content for the indefinite future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 8, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 minute ago, mezzanine said: Love the feedback about the tire performance of the Z10. Thanks! 1 minute ago, mezzanine said: The biggest potential feature for me was the theoretical shock absorbing benefit of the wide/tubeless tire, but it sounds like that's been disappointing across reviews. I think I must have had a misconception about how the tubeless design would function. I figured the lower PSI it allows would be the key to improving the ability of the tire to deal with potholes and would therefore increase the safety margin of the Z series significantly over other wheels. Well, I still have to let a bit more air out I think and see if that changes, but I'm being a bit careful, as I've never dealt with tubeless on an EUC (none of us have!). I really believe it's a matter of tire composition, and hoping there's a CYT-ish style version alternative that will be more forgiving, as I currently buy CYT tires to swap out on any EUC I have that option for. Also, I think I remember reading that tubeless tires have to have thicker walls / consistency, maybe that explains the denseness? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Hmmm... not a huge fan of range tests, but if time allows, will try. <snip> The Z10 trolley is serviceable, but IMHO, a tall, thinnish telescoping trolley cannot satisfyingly handle this much Z10 weight, in this MSuperV3-style, perpendicular oriented manner (one of my least favorite trolley orientations, right next to the Ninebot One 16" series unicorn trolley). <snip> Ninebot is historically very good with a clean-cut, simple and functional design, and updated well across platforms, both Android & iOS (like a real mobile developer.... probably the best of all the EUC companies for keeping their app clean and fuctional; remember, Ninebot has a ton of money through their XiaoMi backing, plus the Segway resources side). They recently updated both platforms for the Z, you can get the Android version here. <snip> Don't sweat the range test if that's not your thing. But out here we do lots of long rides so it's nice to know what the limitation will be for this wheel. Regarding trolley handles, at least it has one. I think the KingSong style is the best - sturdy and offering the best control. Thanks for the Ninebot app link. Good to know that they seem to maintain the best app of all the makers out there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Thanks for the Ninebot app link. Good to know that they seem to maintain the best app of all the makers out there. No sweat! Sadly yes, arguably the best (at least most professionally maintained) app, albeit a little on the simplistic side for immediate first/main screen layout. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mrd777 Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Thanks to @houseofjob for bringing the Z10 downtown for me to give it a go on Wednesday night. I’ve been one of the skeptics on this wheel however I was pleasantly surprised. I really didn’t give it a full speed test since beer ? was involved.. but I did get a real feel for the wheel. It’s pretty sweet. One thing I really liked about it was it’s ability to actually go slow with that big rolling fat tire it was very maneuverable, similar to the way we can roll on the mten3. Cheers ! Edited June 8, 2018 by Mrd777 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 what is the latest eta in the usa for the z10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, novazeus said: what is the latest eta in the usa for the z10? Not sure, but I suspect still early August or later to US doorstep, like the eWheels pre-order timetable quotes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) But that fat tire tho. All is forgiven, Ninebot! We still love you!!! The wheel is sick. It just screams beefy. I bet going back to a thinner tire is going to be difficult once you get used the the 9botZ. #jealous!!! But how are you going to change that tire? Edited June 8, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post US69 Posted June 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, houseofjob said: Not sure, but I suspect still early August or later to US doorstep, like the eWheels pre-order timetable quotes Not sure if the timetable for the z10 is still accurate, as there has been a production stop-delay announced because of a -mystery- failure of a Taiwan z10.... Nice review Chris! Respects for that... When I see tishawn driving around it and comparing it to what he is doing on his Msuper or Monster I have the feeling the stableness the wide tire is giving might even been to much (he even said it as the end of the video but is cut off).. Looks like the swinging /carving he normally does on higher speeds is much harder to achieve on the z10...at least that looks for me like its harder (and would make sense for me on this far tire) and that are impressions I also had from the Asian reviews of the z10... What's your point on this? Also I would like to know I you have been able to compare it to a newer Msuper (the 2000watt Tesla motor version) or if your Msuper comparisons stand for the "old" 1500Watt version...which I guess as you talk about swingingness for acceleration. Thanks for answering...keep us updated ? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Turbocharged Posted June 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Don't sweat the range test if that's not your thing. But out here we do lots of long rides so it's nice to know what the limitation will be for this wheel. Regarding trolley handles, at least it has one. I think the KingSong style is the best - sturdy and offering the best control. Thanks for the Ninebot app link. Good to know that they seem to maintain the best app of all the makers out there. We didn't do a serious range test, controlled speed, road condition etc., for a Z10 we can easily get 70-80km of range if we keep a relatively slow pace (20-25kph), one of my friend drained Z10 in less than 40km (I'll have to confirm with him the exact range) while riding at 40kph+ constantly. Body weight does not seem to affact range as much as on smaller wheels, but riding style still does. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 5 hours ago, stephen said: well this shows you how the z10 is on movability . i couldn't do that on a busy street though but i don't have a choice in the UK? Since YouTube is blocked in China, I'd like to copy this to a Chinese video streaming site, just to show my friends what you can do if you are skilled enough and mad enough... we never really pushed Z that hard in city streets, because in addition that Z is harder to initiate a turn/swing, it has a tendency to bounce back when you lean in to swing it hard, hence difficult to control... what Tishawn did was amazing. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lee Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: But that fat tire tho. All is forgiven, Ninebot! We still love you!!! The wheel is sick. It just screams beefy. I bet going back to a thinner tire is going to be difficult once you get used the the 9botZ. #jealous!!! But how are you going to change that tire? Pretty easy, just like the motorcycle tires... if all fails take it to motorcycle shop, I think last time I've checked if you bring in the rim and the tire they will do it for $ 25... Maybe worth it for some... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WARPed1701D Posted June 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2018 @houseofjob I'm interested to know how the wide tire affects handling of parallel cracks and road surface seems. The feeling I hate most while riding is when the wheel wants to follow a crack, painted line, or road seem and I get the sensation of falling sideways until the tire climbs the lip. I was hoping a wide softer tire at a low pressure would absorb these kind of irregularities without introducing instability. It seems like NYC roads are pretty crappy so I'm sure this situation is common to you. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted June 9, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: But that fat tire tho. All is forgiven, Ninebot! We still love you!!! The wheel is sick. It just screams beefy. Yes, Slim Jim beefy! 5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I bet going back to a thinner tire is going to be difficult once you get used the the 9botZ. #jealous!!! But how are you going to change that tire? When I was switching with @Tishawn Fahie's 2.125" thick Tesla tire, it felt super weird! Like the tire was to thin and bendy (of course, riding a few miles was enough to readjust). This Z just further confirms I never want to ride thinner than 2.5" wide tires ever again. Even getting back on my 2.5" wide KS18S seemed for lack of a better word 'wobbly' after switching from the Z with @Citi Wheel! 5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: But how are you going to change that tire? *Welp* Um.... when I get mine, I hope I never have to? (or maybe it's Dualtron style where there's a metal rim base that slides out with it? *fingers crossed* If I get the chutzpah to attempt that on camera, I'll see, but I might be scared not have time. 4 hours ago, US69 said: Not sure if the timetable for the z10 is still accurate, as there has been a production stop-delay announced because of a -mystery- failure of a Taiwan z10....? Yes, no one seems to want to tell me exactly what that failure is/was, except that the guy was riding in a manner to "destroy the machine" *smh. 4 hours ago, US69 said: Nice review Chris! Respects for that... Thanks formerly @KS69! 4 hours ago, US69 said: Looks like the swinging /carving he normally does on higher speeds is much harder to achieve on the z10...at least that looks for me like its harder (and would make sense for me on this far tire) and that are impressions I also had from the Asian reviews of the z10... What's your point on this? Can't think of the best analogy here, but just imagine you're a tiny person driving a big a** pick-up truck. The machine is totally capable, but your dimensions are so relatively small, that there's a wider range of movement necessary to make the same maneuvers. If I didn't have all my feet pivoting / dancing around the pedal techniques, I'd be complaining about the "hard-to-move maneuvering" like the rest of the Asian beta-testers. This is the most I've had to dance my body around an EUC, even a notch above the 22" Monster (think it's really about the tire width/base). 4 hours ago, US69 said: When I see tishawn driving around it and comparing it to what he is doing on his Msuper or Monster I have the feeling the stableness the wide tire is giving might even been to much (he even said it as the end of the video but is cut off).. With @Tishawn Fahie, I'm not totally sure of his technique, but he does that side to side, arm-swinging, carving maneuvering, plus I know he likes that planted feet, max-griptape feel (his favorite pedals are the ACM-style), which makes this even more impressive. I'd have to say the maneuvering will really have to be a rider-based thing on your technique and comfort with technique. Don't also discount it's not just about the wide, it's about the sheer dense massiveness too, like if you but a boulder with pedals and made it your EUC (exaggerating, but this is really kind of closer to the sensation). 4 hours ago, US69 said: Also I would like to know I you have been able to compare it to a newer Msuper (the 2000watt Tesla motor version) or if your Msuper comparisons stand for the "old" 1500Watt version...which I guess as you talk about swingingness for acceleration. Never been on the new 2kW nominal MSuper, so really was referencing the 84V MSuperV3S+, which I've been the most on of that series without owning one (many riders in NYC own that model). I'm guessing the new 2kW MSuperV3 became a harder response feel, like the "Turbo" GEVKorea custom version that I saw a while back in Korea? (and now I think they officially sell) 4 hours ago, US69 said: Thanks for answering...keep us updated ? Absolutely! I've been Z thirsty like the rest of us, so I'll try to pump as much answers and media out in this short span as I can! 2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: @houseofjob I'm interested to know how the wide tire affects handling of parallel cracks and road surface seems. The feeling I hate most while riding is when the wheel wants to follow a crack, painted line, or road seem and I get the sensation of falling sideways until the tire climbs the lip. I was hoping a wide softer tire at a low pressure would absorb these kind of irregularities without introducing instability. It seems like NYC roads are pretty crappy so I'm sure this situation is common to you. Yes, I know this sensation well, as the MTen3 is the extreme case with this pull phenomenon! I have had a pull on the Z10, but this was like stripped, getting-ready-to-pave streets, super jagged. For the most part, I think it's a non-issue for most urban terrain, but I'll pay attention to that in further riding. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 11 hours ago, houseofjob said: If you stuck by this long, your Ninebot Z thirst is strong! A note for you, I have just talked to a Ninebot engineer, he said "There is no English instruction while pushing firmware update for Zs via APP, they may experience some weird behavior" So, if you guys do update Z's firmware, have a Chinese friends explain procedures/adjustments necessary after an update. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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