The search for a new wheel.

[Electroman]

Hi.

 

Will try to be precise and as clear as possible (if I can ? ).

I understand too much weight is bad for our wheels and riding around at 150kg just is not very optimal at all unless I missed a wheel capable of such adventures, or should I say how we perceive them at very least and the 15kg or so I put on after my accident and still there atm (yes been lazy and personally responsible for being weak minded that is true too) is making a huge difference on the ACM 820Wh, maybe I passed some limit where everything goes south fast and with my heavy backpack to/from work  full of tools and crap I must certainly weigh 110kg or something to that affect now and only the top after full charge feels usable now.  I will likely loose the extra weight at some point and weekends not at work I do ride a bit lighter without backpack strapped on and while not passing 100kg then it is too close to that limit at this point, so while not quite there say 95 - 115kg that's my target range now hoping to drop it under 100 limit soon enough, backpack or not.

Love most about the ACM otherwise, 16" feels good but cannot test ride other wheels so probably need to decide on a new wheel before able to ride it, been looking at all new wheels like V10F, Z10, MSuper X and KS 18L and maybe I could stretch to 18" without loosing too much agility? Also looked at available wheels like Tesla/Teslarized ACM, GT16 and such wheels and I do want a powerful wheel for lots of start/stop hard accelerations but also keeping some speed for a couple km with reserves so I can feel a bit safer in the process.

After braking Scaphoid workshop found nothing wrong with ACM motherboard for sudden power loss at start moment after already been carried for ex 10m, heck came back with quite loose axle nuts even (that they did not find and claim to have test ridden it for a distance), now not even responding to emails so cheap is not going to cut it I rather save for longer and go Ian or Jason. Sure I could go for a trusted Chinese seller too no problem but worried about import here to Sweden? Iaf seam great to me but very hard pill to swallow to see US and China prices and compare to us here in the EU.

Any thoughts, should I trust another Gotway when the only one I ever owned already threw me off for doing nothing wrong, I also was told Gotway demand resellers to buy in spare parts at 300% mark up which I do not want to support Gotway for, but still open I don't have all the facts but feels like a horrendous business strategy to sell wheels that could smash you in the asphalt and brake your bones and later demand extra premium for dirt cheap China plastics/electronics to fix my wheel that made it through their own QC to begin with? Maybe I am missing something but it sure come off as a terribly wrong way to do business to me if trust is what you looking for in customers. Add to that they make it hard to contact them directly which just feel flat out wrong, my motherboard should never have made any honest QC that is for sure but I can solder decent so will clean up and fill in whatever is irritating me

Gotway cons yes, but powerful wheels at potentially ok prices, KS, Inmotion, Ninebot any safer? V10F seams optimal to me but at £1700 when you must watch the budget a bit and cannot just shop around freely? Love the looks of the Z10 more than any other wheel that is pretty simplistic but a design more pleasing than the competition to me, but what about performance, price, availability etc also to be taken into consideration??? Keep coming back to Gotways in the form of Tesla or better yet Teslarized 1300Wh ACM being at sweet spot price range for me while offering more battery so maybe I could charge to 90% to get what I want from the wheel hence saving on batteries.

I knew it, wall of text again so sorry. Just confused and about what to even aim for, would a 18" KS be very different from a 16 ACM or can I easily bridge the size gap and keep enough agility? While sure would be fun with a super agile toy I must stay realistic for all in one package wheel here and there are more important things in life than wheels, much more important even and life is expensive as is I must choose without any chance to test ride the wheels. Powerful (the more the better) and fast with lots of speed margins even if not pushing to the very limit, great acceleration, agile or somewhat agile and 1000'ish and up Wh, safe as possible but I accept no such thing as a bullet proof wheel. Am I asking too much, would it be dumb to go for a Teslarized ACM at this point in time and perhaps choose the 1300Wh over the 1600Wh to save some £300? 

So many question, perhaps someone know and understand better what I want and need than I do myself? Again I am NOT in the US so US prices will not apply to me and customs here pretty messed up but not all closed to the idea of import either.

 

[ED209]

@meepmeepmayer has all the answers to your questions ?

[Electroman]

2 minutes ago, Edddeus said:

@meepmeepmayer has all the answers to your questions ?

Thanks Edddeus, appreciate the speedy reply and link to info.

Perhaps it's my English, or just plain clumsy but I should have also added that I have read through quite a few threads on the forum, watched videos and read about Martys ACM versions, just the more info I try to get the harder it all becomes  and I have no idea at in real life cause cannot take any of them for spin to compare. I do appreciate the info, reviews and more it is a big help and even contacted the sellers with questions regarding models and how these ACM2's and even Tesla's stand up to absolute latest wheels and they expect them to stand up to coming KS 18L, although the good guys seem very busy and must answer sometimes hundreds of mails per day so I respect and understand I cannot get the guidance there I am looking for but got the tip to ask in the forum instead which I am now. Regarding the KS 18L perhaps I must wait, how a V10F and Z10 stand up against the Tesla powered wheels would be interesting though, even a proper review comparing them all head to head but is it too early for that at this point maybe?

Not seen any direct comparing of the new wheels yet, maybe I can find more about Tesla vs Teslarized ACM vs ACM 84v though where the latter could also be interesting should the price justify making sacrifices. 1k Wh vs 1300Wh vs 1600Wh and so on..

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Edddeus said:

@meepmeepmayer has all the answers to your questions ?

Hey!!! No!! Pfff...

--

So what weight on the wheel are we talking about? 150kg? 110kg? 95-115kg?

With 150, I'd say go for the best electronics there are - Kingsong (hey, at least they test them!). 18S, 18L. Though maybe the new Gotway boards with the fat mosfets (msuper X, Monster 100V) will be super strong, we don't know yet.

With 95-110kg, I guess you can take any current wheel and it will be good (you just lose a ton of range).

Tesla vs ACM2 (Tesla-ized ACM), the ACM has a bigger battery and the same (or even lower) price, so I'd go for the ACM2 between the two.

18 inchers, msuperX and 18L both look very good. Ninebot One Z seems to be a disappointment from what we hear now, but none of these wheels are released so it's all informed speculation.

If you want a ("cheap") wheel now, ACM2. V10F is nice as well, but costs more. Or you just wait a bit and see how all the new 18 inch models turn out.

How the different wheels ride, hard to say if you haven't tried them. The ACM is really very maneuverable due to the wide stance and low height. Love mine. I don't really know how most other wheels ride in comparison as well. But you can get used to pretty much any wheel.

[Electroman]

4 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Hey!!! No!! Pfff...

--

So what weight on the wheel are we talking about? 150kg? 110kg? 95-115kg?

With 150, I'd say go for the best electronics there are - Kingsong (hey, at least they test them!). 18S, 18L. Though maybe the new Gotway boards with the fat mosfets (msuper X, Monster 100V) will be super strong, we don't know yet.

With 95-110kg, I guess you can take any current wheel and it will be good (you just lose a ton of range).

Tesla vs ACM2 (Tesla-ized ACM), the ACM has a bigger battery and the same (or even lower) price, so I'd go for the ACM2 between the two.

18 inchers, msuperX and 18L both look very good. Ninebot One Z seems to be a disappointment from what we hear now, but none of these wheels are released so it's all informed speculation.

If you want a ("cheap") wheel now, ACM2. v10F is nice as well, but costs more. Or you just wait a bit and see how all the new 18 inch models turn out.

Thanks a lot meepmeepmayer, it's good info and partly what I suspected but needed confirmation of, that KS18 L is listed at a price I might be able to come over at Speedyfeet, but not available so is it perhaps temporary only? Weight of that 18" is also similar to existing ACM and still can be fitted in my locker at work which is 500mm deep maximum, some 300mm wide (but opening in front is 250'ish mm), just don't want to sacrifice acceleration and never ridden any other wheel so clueless really?

Monster is way too big for me but new msuper is appealing if I can even wait, but $ ???  ACM2 1300 seams like a sweet spot for me atm but will stray open and see what happen on the market until the day I buy the new wheel, if able to wait over a month that is?

My weight with tools on my back is 110kg but really appreciate hard acceleration and speed, safety margins never hurt either hehe.. Weigh w/o tools is about 95'ish kg (no scale but in the neighborhood), will loose some but when? ?

[meepmeepmayer]

Any weight is ok, as long it's not 150kg

18L is indeed a good price for what you get. The Z might also be cheaper than expected (or maybe only in the U.S.) and maybe it will be good? They're all unreleased, so that's why they aren't yet available. Should be there in one or two months.

You can even order an msuper X on Ali for 1670€ now (no idea when it would arrive). But that would be a China import again, which it seems you don't want (and also a new, untested wheel): https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-Gotway-Msuper-X-19inch-Electric-unicycle-self-balancing-scooter-one-wheel-2000W-motor-Nesest-motherboard/1908673_32863148960.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.3aab3c8cie7XRB

ACM2 is really good wheel for the money, for the other wheels, we have to wait.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

That's a lot of weight to be moving around.  At 150 kg I say go dually for heavy hauling.  

[Electroman]

8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Any weight is ok, as long it's not 150kg

18L is indeed a good price for what you get. The Z might also be cheaper than expected (or maybe only in the U.S.) and maybe it will be good? They're all unreleased, so that's why they aren't yet available. Should be there in one or two months.

You can even order an msuper X on Ali for 1670€ now (no idea when it would arrive). But that would be a China import again, which it seems you don't want (and also a new, untested wheel): https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-Gotway-Msuper-X-19inch-Electric-unicycle-self-balancing-scooter-one-wheel-2000W-motor-Nesest-motherboard/1908673_32863148960.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.3aab3c8cie7XRB

ACM2 is really good wheel for the money, for the other wheels, we have to wait.

Thanks again meepmeepmayer, so is there a new 18" and a new 19" msuper 100v version?

The 18 for sure could be interesting even from China, just that nopw in Sweden there is no way to avoid the high taxation/custom fees on import it all changed and ultra slow through customs these days, it's developing nation slow atm it is crazy compared to how it was just a few months ago but hopefully will change again soon? DHL/USP like shipping could work if value is written down properly from real value I suppose but need to be a lot cheaper to consider it. but not a stranger to it if I put it like that.

Just last and very first wheel was bought cheaper, albeit shipping from EU I have come to appreciate the response, support from a seller like Jason or Ian and safety factor, last wheel was in a workshop and they found nothing wrong but cost me a broken Scaphoid, heck it came back to me with very loose axle nuts (total km is 340 now less when at workshop) telling me all is perfect and really made an impact on me, is it worth it?

[Electroman]

5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

That's a lot of weight to be moving around.  At 150 kg I say go dually for heavy hauling.  

Hehe yeah 150 would be on the heavy side, I would not dare ride then unless I was very long maybe?

Could be problematic if a crash come, no under 100kg but heavy back pack on to/from work, will get to maybe 85-90 soon enough but no less, cost too much to keep my weight at under 80 these days not prepared to put in that kind of work and commitment.?

[meepmeepmayer]

16 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Thanks again meepmeepmayer, so is there a new 18" and a new 19" msuper 100v version?

All relevant msupers are 84V. There's the original msuper V3 with 84V (wider side panels for bigger 1300/1600Wh batteries), then a Tesla-ized variant with no name (Tesla-ized just like with the ACM2, but it isn't officially sold in Europe as far as I know), and the msuper X which seems to be the Tesla-ized msuper V3 with a bigger 19 inch tire shoehorned in (not sure about this, might be a new motor, but the shell definitely looks the same as the old one), plus all new board with mega mosfets (yeeha!) and new side panels. The X is just the latest and greatest in the msuper line (Gotway 18 inch, which now includes 19 inch).

Usually Ali prices include all taxes and fees, and "green and fashion" is a reputable seller (though Gotway don't like these grey imports and may refuse to help you with problems, but "green and fashion" should be able to send you parts, too), but not sure how it would work exactly with Sweden. Ordering in EU might make more sense indeed.

I probably wouldn't order an unproven wheel from China, too, without enough disposable money. Just wanted to tease you mention it Wish I had enough money to order that NOW...

[Esash]

KS18L could be the wheel of the year

 

 

[Electroman]

Cool got it, thanks meep and all good I like the teaser, options.. ?

Yes Scoutshonor I am interested in that too for sure, would be nice if opportunity prevent itself to try at least some 18" wheel and get a feel for the difference vs a 16"?

[The Fat Unicyclist]

At over 100kg, 18" wheels feel so much more comfortable to ride!

I think the ballast offsets the reverse pendulum more - if that makes any sense?

[ED209]

7 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

8 hours ago, Edddeus said:

@meepmeepmayer has all the answers to your questions ?

Hey!!! No!! Pfff...

I was falling asleep, Danke! ☺?

[ED209]

7 hours ago, Electroman said:

Thanks again meepmeepmayer, so is there a new 18" and a new 19" msuper 100v version?

There will be a 100V version of the M super on the horizon I have been told. 

[alcatraz]

Acm is just too small for that kind of weight. Get an 18 inch. Something that you can fit in your locker.

I'm 65kg and I'm looking for a deal on a kingsong ks-18l.

[Electroman]

3 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

At over 100kg, 18" wheels feel so much more comfortable to ride!

I think the ballast offsets the reverse pendulum more - if that makes any sense?

Actually I think I do, English is limited and hard to explain but yes and this gotten worse for me, kind of like passing some invisible limit when gaining that 10-15kg of weight whatever it is at at this very moment?  The wheel most def started feeling different after accident, accident lead to eating candy sitting still off work, which lead to more sorrow and more candy and darn vicious evil circle of temporary weakens and terrible self control. Ok honestly when it comes to food I am pretty weak overall so better not eat at all and stay away from temptation. ?

2 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Acm is just too small for that kind of weight. Get an 18 inch. Something that you can fit in your locker.

I'm 65kg and I'm looking for a deal on a kingsong ks-18l.

I suppose you too have got a point, I most def feel the difference from when i bought it and the wheels only have got some 340km on it atm so should still be good yes? Absolutely there is some invisible limit somewhere which after passing the wheel start to feel very sluggish, hard mode start to feel like way too soft and like I would fall off should I use it, want much harder modes available but none there to choose. I will loose the extra I add on + I do hang off the back pack when not to/from/at work and that alone makes a clear difference, only thing I fear about the 18" wheels is loosing agility cause the way I ride is very dependent on not going up in diameter too much cause even if I have not tried one I realize the physical attributes and while gaining some you also loose some of going bigger diameter, I do a lot of snappy movements and hard change of directions in trafficked city riding on the way to work. Ride some distance among people (who just cannot respect the bike lanes whatsoever always looking down on the screen) too in rush hour and while taking it extra easy that distance it happen I must make very aggressive movements on short notice, change direction by just forcing my upper body to twist sharply, waist, then legs squeezing wheel hard when legs twist the wheel to make it instantly change of direction without traveling any distance forward in the process if that makes any sense? Hard to explain yin this language what I mean but it's not a smooth, sweeping arc of beauty around people, well that too but when in need and someone suddenly run out I learned to manipulate the wheel in  much more direct fashion and thinking I must loose of that at least if going 18", no? 14" would probably be better still but too small I know this but I know the KS18 will have other advantages where it is better and if taking some pain in stressful, fast flowing city riding I get it back in spades for relaxed weekend rides outside city core.

Thanks guys appreciate all comments, all help and even personal views it all help me paint a bigger picture and value others feedback. I mean seams to be people here and online in general that feel the more powerful Teslarized ACM backed up by more juice, beefier axle etc will handle say 100kg or even 110kg much better, harder than 67v ACM. "Mycket vill ha mer" is a saying here in Sweden (and probably many other nation have got it or similar sayings), basically directly translates to "Much wants more", or rather the more one receive the more you want and so true, point is I can loose weight it's just putting my mind to and make the decision which will make my existing ACM and potentially ACM2 feel much better right? I mean I do want my wheel to feel hard and reactive, firm, not a swampy, loose mess that could just dive on you any second if over leaning or that's what I think it feels like even if it does not? I can do smooth too no problem and enjoy it even just that for some reason I always fall back to very explosive, hard, direct riding style rather forcing the wheel by manipulating my body, I do take advantage of all naturally occurring weight shifts too just add some extra to it and sometimes even work against it although not that common. This is the way I rode my dirt bikes all those years on track and style just transition right into EUC too, suppose I always been that person and come very natural to me.

Maybe I do end up with multiple wheels at some point too, I do see the pull now but we will see I must watch economy and so much other stuff that eats money and not exactly made of it here, just a common blue collar and must sweat a lot and heck even bleed some for what I get back for it once a month.

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, Edddeus said:

There will be a 100V version of the M super on the horizon I have been told. 

By whom?

See the discusion here, they'd either have to build a new shell, be limited to 1040Wh max, or somehow (in some unholy way) cram more batteries in the existing shell.

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/10068-msuper-x-100v/

37 minutes ago, Electroman said:

I suppose you too have got a point, I most def feel the difference from when i bought it and the wheels only have got some 340km on it atm so should still be good yes? Absolutely there is some invisible limit somewhere which after passing the wheel start to feel very sluggish, hard mode start to feel like way too soft and like I would fall off should I use it, want much harder modes available but none there to choose.

Are you sure it's just the extra weight? Usually the wheel should behave more or less the same, just use more battery with higher weight.

A wheel suddenly getting softer is a sign of one of the two capacitors on the board (brown cylinders) being broken, so a board failure. Maybe that is somehow related to your accident, don't know the details there (was it an overlean?).

But if you say you feel the difference with vs without backpack, then it is due to the weight.

[ED209]

22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

By whom?

Gotway Electric Unicycle

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Hmmm..... cool! Let's see if these are just experiments for now, or actually on track for release.

[Electroman]

46 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

By whom?

See the discusion here, they'd either have to build a new shell, be limited to 1040Wh max, or somehow (in some unholy way) cram more batteries in the existing shell.

 

Are you sure it's just the extra weight? Usually the wheel should behave more or less the same, just use more battery with higher weight.

A wheel suddenly getting softer is a sign of one of the two capacitors on the board (brown cylinders) being broken, so a board failure. Maybe that is somehow related to your accident, don't know the details there (was it an overlean?).

But if you say you feel the difference with vs without backpack, then it is due to the weight.

Good points and thought about that too, according to the workshop it should be fine but then again they did send it too me with loose axle nuts which I tighten myself and will swap out for new soon. Even thought about a project perhaps even using the workshop I have to my disposal filled with great mechanics, engineers and a ton of knowledge at the company to beef up axle and maybe even consider a more exotic steel composition for extra toughness just need a new wheel first and maybe time hehe?

I expressed myself a bit clumsy, yes it most def at least partly related to battery level, for sure. Warnings come earlier etc and the usual, but it does come across as softer too and hard mode give me the impression of feeling softer with weight, I know I should re solder some points on the board especially motor cables whether that make a difference or not for extra peace of mind but should consider new capacitors too just for the sake of it.

I was lighter when buying the wheel, now heavier + backpack at that make some difference overall but also not measured in a scientific way at all just how I experience it so cannot swear of course but yes warnings come sooner and only the top of newly charged battery feels good to me yet do not want to charge constantly to full due to battery health so? Several times now I come of for ex the train and turn on the wheel, step up and away and right away it feels "swampy" at times like do not want to carry my weight, although at time of accident it happen maybe up to 50m after take off and not within a meter or so, but if allowing some time after turning on the wheel it does not happen.

[alcatraz]

A new wheel with 2000w continuous (4000w max) should feel reponsive. You have both 16 and 18 inch to choose from today.

What I can't wrap my head around is that if you are 150kg and feel 16 inch is your max. That is like me 65kg riding on a 12 inch. I don't see the advantage in have that level of twitchyness. Maybe if it were a wheel dedicated to low speed stunts. 

These wheels are designed and tested by chinese people. There are no 150kg riders on these wheels here in China. Aren't you afraid of puncturing the tire going over something as simple as a traintrack or a speed bump? At least get a wider tire, like V10F but ideally an 18inch. They say you can still turn some 18 inchers on a dime. You just have to get used to it.

[Electroman]

12 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

A new wheel with 2000w continuous (4000w max) should feel reponsive. You have both 16 and 18 inch to choose from today.

What I can't wrap my head around is that if you are 150kg and feel 16 inch is your max. That is like me 65kg riding on a 12 inch. I don't see the advantage in have that level of twitchyness. Maybe if it were a wheel dedicated to low speed stunts. 

These wheels are designed and tested by chinese people. There are no 150kg riders on these wheels here in China. Aren't you afraid of puncturing the tire going over something as simple as a traintrack or a speed bump? At least get a wider tire, like V10F but ideally an 18inch. They say you can still turn some 18 inchers on a dime. You just have to get used to it.

18" might be all good for me, all I have to compare to is my existing ACM 820Wh, I have no opportunity to try another wheel here what I know of unless lucky enough to run into some other member living close and kind enough to allow it which would be great and my hope is 18" feels about as agile to me cause if it does that have got other advantages too.

 

What, no 150kg riders in China, what you saying friend? ?

Ok so I had to check for real now to confirm and got batteries to an old scale to weight myself and came in at 93kg, problem is my backpack was heavier than I though even and added some 19kg extra for a total of 112kg but some days I pack even more and probably will weight closer to 115kg dressed and ready to go to work. Meaning top out at 115 to/from/at work and say 95kg at home then since I weighed myself butt naked apart from the clog (shoe.)

KS18 L is interesting for sure, but so is the ACM2 and the new wheels, doing all research I can atm trying to build a solid opinion of what I want? No tris on wheels and very mixed riding, weekends longer paths and on weekdays stocked traffic ad people everywhere so lots of stop and go, twist and turn, change of directions unexpectedly and unannounced and thets where I feel 14-16" could be great but 14 is too small, 16 - 18" direction is where I will be looking foremost .

[The Fat Unicyclist]

8 hours ago, Electroman said:

KS18 L is interesting for sure, but so is the ACM2 and the new wheels, doing all research I can atm trying to build a solid opinion of what I want? No tris on wheels and very mixed riding, weekends longer paths and on weekdays stocked traffic ad people everywhere so lots of stop and go, twist and turn, change of directions unexpectedly and unannounced and thets where I feel 14-16" could be great but 14 is too small, 16 - 18" direction is where I will be looking foremost . 

The 18L looks fairly nimble in this test ride...

 

[mrelwood]

For me what contributes to a sharp handling wheel is mostly the height of the side pads. 16S: Lowish pads, snappy to turn and handle. V10F: Quite high pads, needs a lot more effort to turn sharply. Msuper V3 (old): Snappier than V10F, despite the 18”.

I wouldn’t worry about losing too much agility when going 18”, the difference can be learned into. But I would definitely not recommend a tall wheel for you.

One thing is also the tire profile. V10F default Kenda is not nearly as nimble as the CST that comes in an Msuper. These together I believe is what makes the Msuper feel more agile to me with the way I have learned to ride on my 16S (2.5” mod). I am 193cm, 95kg.

This is why I think you should choose between 18L and Msuper X (or Teslarized). 18L is about 2” taller but 2” narrower than Msuper X. I don’t know how the width comes into play here.

 

Ps. PLEASE ride carefully amongst pedestrians! If someone runs your over, you are NOT insured and you will end up paying for the damage. And you can’t see a small kid jumping in front of you from behind someone until its too late.

Besides, scaring people with fast and sharp riding might hinder the legal position of EUCs.