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Help me choose my first EUC


kinggus
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Hello there!

My old and not so god bicycle just gave up last week, so i was thinking about buying a new electric one. Then i realized that for that money i rather get me something that is way more fun, an EUC!

I've been reading these forums and watching YouTube videos of reviews, done a lot of research but I'm wheeling back and forward all the time, i figured i'll need your help here.

 

It's gonna be my first EUC but i don't want to by one that i need to replace in a year because its to slow or week.

What i need is something that-

- can carry me 186cm (6"2) and 100 kilos (220lbs).

- I'm living in Switzerland so it's going to be some hills that i have to "climb".

- range is not that big of a deal, my main use will be to work, 5km (3miles) each way.

- speed is something that i like so that is quite important.

- would be a big PLUS if i can use it even when it rains.

- have a budget of maximum 1500euros.

 

Had my mind set on inMotion v8 but then it changed to the ks16s... What would you suggest for a big guy like me?

thank you for your help and sorry for my bad english.

 

/gus

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I ride the V8. It is a fast wheel from 0 to 25 kmh. For your height and weight I would recommend the Inmotion V10F. It has a powerful motor, wide tyre and can handle steep inclines, ideal for the lovely mountains of Switzerland. 

Edited by Edddeus
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I am new at this but I agree. The KS16s and the Inmotion V10 are the minimum for people our size.  I got the KS16s and i am very pleased with it.  The V10 would also be a good choice and might be better.   I  chose the KS16s over the V10 because of the possible axle noise problems that inmotion has.  Given that i also weigh 220lbs i did not want axle problems.  The V10 is a new unproven wheel for me.   I think you need something with a minimum of a 840wh battery , 1200w motor and 120kg rider weight?  Learning to ride is slow but steady.  Good luck.     

 

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4 hours ago, Edddeus said:

I ride the V8. It is a fast wheel from 0 to 25 kmh. For your height and weight I would recommend the Inmotion V10F. It has a powerful motor, wide tires and can handle steep inclines, ideal for the lovely mountains of Switzerland. 

The inMotion v10F? is that the new one that you have to pre-order?

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

V10(F) (1360€ for the V10), 16S (1550€ here, maybe you can find it cheaper) sound perfect. Or even an ACM2 (1600€ for 1300Wh, best performance and battery/range for the money, though you might prefer a more easy to carry one with a good trolley handle). Pick the one you prefer. V8 is too weak for your weight or if you want to go over 25km/h, in my opinion.

so you would rather compare the ks16s to the inMotion v10/v10F rather with the V8?

Somehow i don't like the looks of the ACM2 and as you said, a trolley is preferred.

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

I am new at this but I agree. The KS16s and the Inmotion V10 are the minimum for people our size.  I got the KS16s and i am very pleased with it.  The V10 would also be a good choice and might be better.   I  chose the KS16s over the V10 because of the possible axle noise problems that inmotion has.  Given that i also weigh 220lbs i did not want axle problems.  The V10 is a new unproven wheel for me.   I think you need something with a minimum of a 840wh battery , 1200w motor and 120kg rider weight?  Learning to ride is slow but steady.  Good luck.     

 

yeah the dealer that im looking at buying from here in switzerland (we dont have so many) don't have the v10, not even as a pre-order...

Looks like I'm leaning towards the ks16s. Feels like a lot of people are riding it and are very pleased with it.

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39 minutes ago, kinggus said:

The inMotion v10F? is that the new one that you have to pre-order?

so you would rather compare the ks16s to the inMotion v10/v10F rather with the V8?

Somehow i don't like the looks of the ACM2 and as you said, a trolley is preferred.

yeah the dealer that im looking at buying from here in switzerland (we dont have so many) don't have the v10, not even as a pre-order...

Looks like I'm leaning towards the ks16s. Feels like a lot of people are riding it and are very pleased with it.

KS16s  is a good wheel in my opinion. It is only when compare it to the New V10/V10F it falls short slightly.

It's pedal height are low in comparison to the V10, low ground clearance, weaker motor, why not have it delivered to you from Speedyfeet UK or Wheelzworld Switzerland?? 

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1 hour ago, kinggus said:

so you would rather compare the ks16s to the inMotion v10/v10F rather with the V8?

The 16S and V10(F) are on another power level and 1.5 generations newer than the V8 (their bigger batteries with a more parallel setup play a role in better power delivery and therefore safety). So, yep, the V8 is a level below them and the two are roughly comparable.

Between the two, I'd say on paper the V10 is better - higher pedals, stronger motor, higher top speed, newer, really nice price (ok the battery is smaller, but you can get a battery bigger than the 16S with the V10F for 1650€ if you want - the only difference between V10 and V10F is the battery size and a slightly different motor with 200W of stated motor power difference, which you wouldn't notice).

But the 16S is still good and maybe you prefer the form factor/ergonomics/looks (and the neat integrated trolley handle). A lot in wheel choice is gut feeling/first intuition, so follow that.

1 hour ago, kinggus said:

Somehow i don't like the looks of the ACM2 and as you said, a trolley is preferred.

There's an external trolley handle for the ACM2, just like you would have to get one for the V10 (different style though). But the ACM really is a wheel that should be ridden as much as possible and carried as little as possible. If you commute to work, maybe the others are sleeker and more pleasant if you e.g. have to push it with the handle for a while getting to your desk or something like this. But from a purely performance (and range, and cost vs what-you-get) perspective, the ACM2 beats the others though.

--

Maybe even consider the coming-soon KingSong KS18L, it's a bit pricier (1700€) and 18 inches, but for a relaxed commute with a heavier rider, maybe it's something for you. It's the 16S's bigger brother.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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Just to add my $0.02 re the differences between the 16S and V10, the power cutout button on the handle for when you pick it up seems like a small feature, and it is, but it's a minor convenience you'll come to appreciate.  Also, I prefer the "scorpion tail" trolley handle design. It's ever so slightly faster to deploy and put away.

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3 hours ago, Adam Sharkan said:

I am 6' 5" 230ish lbs and have ridden a V8, ACM (not the new one), ks14(ouch), and a ks16s. I rode the ks18 too but only for a few mins so not long enough to form an opinion on. Out of them all I loved the ACM and KS16s best, in fact I just ordered a new ACMv2 from ewheels. If they both ride well for me at my height/weight than they no doubt will be good for u, u can't go wrong with either IMO.

thanks for the response and advice!

2 hours ago, Edddeus said:

KS16s  is a good wheel in my opinion. It is only when compare it to the New V10/V10F it falls short slightly.

It's pedal height are low in comparison to the V10, low ground clearance, weaker motor, why not have it delivered to you from Speedyfeet UK or Wheelzworld Switzerland?? 

i didn't know about Wheelzworld, just looked them up and they only sell gotway EUCs? I have been looking at kissmywheels.ch it's a swiss store that have a office close to where i live and that would make it a lot easier if something would have to be repaired or replaced.

The dealer also has the ks16s up for 1100euros, seams like a good deal?

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The 16S and V10(F) are on another power level and 1.5 generations newer than the V8 (their bigger batteries with a more parallel setup play a role in better power delivery and therefore safety). So, yep, the V8 is a level below them and the two are roughly comparable.

Between the two, I'd say on paper the V10 is better - higher pedals, stronger motor, higher top speed, newer, really nice price (ok the battery is smaller, but you can get a battery bigger than the 16S with the V10F for 1650€ if you want - the only difference between V10 and V10F is the battery size and a slightly different motor with 200W of stated motor power difference, which you wouldn't notice).

But the 16S is still good and maybe you prefer the form factor/ergonomics/looks (and the neat integrated trolley handle). A lot in wheel choice is gut feeling/first intuition, so follow that.

There's an external trolley handle for the ACM2, just like you would have to get one for the V10 (different style though). But the ACM really is a wheel that should be ridden as much as possible and carried as little as possible. If you commute to work, maybe the others are sleeker and more pleasant if you e.g. have to push it with the handle for a while getting to your desk or something like this. But from a purely performance (and range, and cost vs what-you-get) perspective, the ACM2 beats the others though.

--

Maybe even consider the coming-soon KingSong KS18L, it's a bit pricier (1700€) and 18 inches, but for a relaxed commute with a heavier rider, maybe it's something for you. It's the 16S's bigger brother.

what's the difference between the ACM and the ACM2? just a newer version with some upgrades? or a completely different wheel?

1 hour ago, Shemp said:

Just to add my $0.02 re the differences between the 16S and V10, the power cutout button on the handle for when you pick it up seems like a small feature, and it is, but it's a minor convenience you'll come to appreciate.  Also, I prefer the "scorpion tail" trolley handle design. It's ever so slightly faster to deploy and put away.

the 16s doesn't cut the power when lifted? so if i manage to somehow get my leg under while caring I'll get "burnt"?

 

Edited by kinggus
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Might want to consider the gotway Tesla.  It is another good 16” wheel.  Maybe for your size, maybe consider the king song 18s.  It has a seat. The 18s is very robust and has a great track record.   The 18S is also fast.  50kmph when you unlock it. 

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1 hour ago, kinggus said:

The dealer also has the ks16s up for 1100euros, seams like a good deal?

Good deal! Be aware that the standard battery size for the 16S is 840Wh, but some dealers also sell a 680Wh version, so check which one it is. Price is good for both of them, though!

Just make sure it's a KS16S and not just a KS16 (the predecessor of the 16S), a 1100€ price might indicate that it's only a 16 non-S (wouldn't recommend that, it is comparable to the V8).

edit: see my next post, wouldn't buy from this site.

1 hour ago, kinggus said:

what's the difference between the ACM and the ACM2? just a newer version with some upgrades? or a completely different wheel?

Newer version with some upgrades. Mainly a better motor (the one from the Tesla) which is 1900W instead of 1500W, i has a thicker axle and cable thicknesses. Also a new board with some better components, brighter front light, and some other small improvements under the hood. I used ACM and ACM2 interchangably for "the ACM" (form factor), the latest version of which is the ACM2 (names differ, ewheels calls it the ACMv2, do not confuse with ACM16 V2 which is just the ACM non-2) where they use their latest, best parts (if it has the 1900W Tesla motor, it's the ACM2).

1 hour ago, kinggus said:

the 16s doesn't cut the power when lifted? so if i manage to somehow get my leg under while caring I'll get "burnt"?

Lift any wheel, it will turn the tire according to how you tilt it. Because it does not know that it's not on the ground. Usually it will instantly go to max speed and then beep and shut down. So it won't turn all the time when carrying it, just go crazy when you pick it up. The motor disable lift button on the Inmotion prevents that. Other wheels, you have to turn off. Lifting them up a curb or so (like very short) isn't a problem, though, just carrying them.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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For me the main differences between 16S and V10(F) are:

  1. Ergonomics. V10 is tall and has side pads located at the very top, limiting the tilt during low speed turns. Even the 18" Msuper is slightly easier for me to turn in a dime than a V10. On the other hand, 16S pads are low enough to even cause sore points to the legs for repeated mounting. I can't ride a stock 16S with one leg, while V10 is no problem.
  2. Zippyness. V10 has to be asked for the power with some dedication, while 16S is like a perky mid-sized dog ready to sprint at a blink of an eye.
  3. Weight. V10F is about 5 kgs heavier, which to me is a lot.

Differences in pedal height, engine power and maximum travel speed are too small to be relevant, especially in a first wheel.

I have ridden my 16S for 8000 km, V10 for just two km. I don't think anything could make me swap my 16S with a V10F. Then again, a new wheel is always strange.

1 hour ago, kinggus said:

so if i manage to somehow get my leg under while caring I'll get "burnt"?

You don't lift a running EUC unless it has the handle switch, so no you won't. You'll turn it off first.

1 hour ago, kinggus said:

The dealer also has the ks16s up for 1100euros, seams like a good deal?

An extremely good one! I'd grab that before the dealer notices a mistake or something... (Edit: As long as it really is 16S and not 16C, 16B, or just KS-16.)

Edited by mrelwood
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@kinggus The kissmywheels website has language like it's some Chinese AliExpress resellers or something, translating (badly) into German. Definitely no German speaking people there???? In Switzerland???

So unless you know them personally, they have a physical store, some actual personnel, or you know others who have bought from them and it was good, I'd be sceptical and buy from a known seller. Don't be afraid to buy from any reputable Euro store.

This website is strange. Maybe I'm wrong, as they offer a Probefahrt, wondering what would happen if you show up there.

They also sell a "King Song 16S" for a 16 non-S price and a "King Song 16S Sports" for a believable 16S price. But there's only the 16 and the 16S, the S stands for sports. Pretty sure their 16S is just a 16.

Something's wrong there. I wouldn't buy from them. Maybe it's even a scam?

After you decided what wheel to get, can't hurt to tell us where you want to buy before you order, or ask for seller recommendations:efee47c9c8:

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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45 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Might want to consider the gotway Tesla.  It is another good 16” wheel.  Maybe for your size, maybe consider the king song 18s.  It has a seat. The 18s is very robust and has a great track record.   The 18S is also fast.  50kmph when you unlock it. 

But that wheel is way over my price range, right?

22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Good deal! Be aware that the standard battery size for the 16S is 840Wh, but some dealers also sell a 680Wh version, so check which one it is. Price is good for both of them, though!

Just make sure it's a KS16S and not just a KS16 (the predecessor of the 16S), a 1100€ price might indicate that it's only a 16 non-S (wouldn't recommend that, it is comparable to the V8).

edit: see my next post, wouldn't buy from this site.

Newer version with some upgrades. Mainly a better motor (the one from the Tesla) which is 1900W instead of 1500W, i has a thicker axle and cable thicknesses. Also a new board with some better components, brighter front light, and some other small improvements under the hood. I used ACM and ACM2 interchangably for "the ACM" (form factor), the latest version of which is the ACM2 (names differ, ewheels calls it the ACMv2, do not confuse with ACM16 V2 which is just the ACM non-2) where they use their latest, best parts (if it has the 1900W Tesla motor, it's the ACM2).

Lift any wheel, it will turn the tire according to how you tilt it. Because it does not know that it's not on the ground. Usually it will instantly go to max speed and then beep and shut down. So it won't turn all the time when carrying it, just go crazy when you pick it up. The motor disable lift button on the Inmotion prevents that. Other wheels, you have to turn off. Lifting them up a curb or so (like very short) isn't a problem, though, just carrying them.

The one i was looking at was a ks16s with a 680Wh battery.

i get so confused with the ACMv2/ACM2/ACM16 V2... 

19 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

For me the main differences between 16S and V10(F) are:

  1. Ergonomics. V10 is tall and has side pads located at the very top, limiting the tilt during low speed turns. Even the 18" Msuper is slightly easier for me to turn in a dime than a V10. On the other hand, 16S pads are low enough to even cause sore points to the legs for repeated mounting. I can't ride a stock 16S with one leg, while V10 is no problem.
  2. Zippyness. V10 has to be asked for the power with some dedication, while 16S is like a perky mid-sized dog ready to sprint at a blink of an eye.
  3. Weight. V10F is about 5 kgs heavier, which to me is a lot.

Differences in pedal height, engine power and maximum travel speed are too small to be relevant, especially in a first wheel.

I have ridden my 16S for 8000 km, V10 for just two km. I don't think anything could make me swap my 16S with a V10F. Then again, a new wheel is always strange.

You don't lift a running EUC unless it has the handle switch, so no you won't. You'll turn it off first.

An extremely good one! I'd grab that before the dealer notices a mistake or something... (Edit: As long as it really is 16S and not 16C, 16B, or just KS-16.)

Can you even lift the ks16s in the trolley handle when its folded in? Or will you just pull it out then?

12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@kinggus The kissmywheels website has language like it's some Chinese AliExpress resellers or something, translating (badly) into German. Definitely no German speaking people there???? In Switzerland???

So unless you know them personally, they have a physical store, some actual personnel, or you know others who have bought from them and it was good, I'd be sceptical and buy from a known seller. Don't be afraid to buy from any reputable Euro store.

This website is strange. Maybe I'm wrong, as they offer a Probefahrt, wondering what would happen if you show up there.

They also sell a "King Song 16S" for a 16 non-S price and a "King Song 16S Sports" for a believable 16S price. But there's only the 16 and the 16S, the S stands for sports. Pretty sure their 16S is just a 16.

Something's wrong there. I wouldn't buy from them. Maybe it's even a scam?

After you decided what wheel to get, can't hurt to tell us where you want to buy before you order, or ask for seller recommendations:efee47c9c8:

I texted with a guy from the Bern store yesterday when i was in to the v8 and before i had some second thoughts. Didn't seem shady then, he even sent me a Deal proposal as a .pdf which is valid for 2 weeks. But hey! what do i know? ??

Another thing with buying from outside of Switzerland are the taxes. Since its not an EU country i have to pay taxes on the EUC and that's gonna send me back another couple of ?

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The KS16s handle locks in the down position allowing you to lift it by the handle. ( make sure that it is locked by bumping down on the handle before lifting)

Using it in trolley mode  is easier than most.  

I can't jump curbs yet. You can quickly lift/jump it up the curb without turning it off. 

If you lift it without turning it off it will quickly over speeds and turn off. 

Turning it off is easy but yeah, the auto lift turn off on the V10 is nice.

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28 minutes ago, kinggus said:

The one i was looking at was a ks16s with a 680Wh battery.

Still a proper deal, but do consider all options first.

A few very important things about battery capacity:

  • You must ride slower and accelerate more gently as the battery charge gets lower.
  • Battery showing 50% at rest gets down to 20% and below during acceleration.
  • Going fast drains the battery a lot faster.

680Wh might take you to 40km if you ride very peacefully, but if you accelerate hard and go very fast it might be only 25km. And the last 5km will be very boring as the top speed comes gradually down to 20km/h. That means the "fun" range on 680Wh might be as low as 20km.

Quote

i get so confused with the ACMv2/ACM2/ACM16 V2...

If you haven't yet noticed, some of us have decided not buying a Gotway because of concerns on manufacturing quality and rider safety. But Gotway are the fastest and have biggest batteries. And some have only good experience with them.

Quote

Can you even lift the ks16s in the trolley handle when its folded in? Or will you just pull it out then?

Sure you can! I think it is one if not the most comfortable EUC handles for lifting. There is a release button that lets you extend the carrying handle to a trolley handle. One is not supposed to lift the wheel from an extended handle, although I do that because I'd rather put extra load on the handle than on my bad back.

 

Edited by mrelwood
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33 minutes ago, kinggus said:

Another thing with buying from outside of Switzerland are the taxes. Since its not an EU country i have to pay taxes on the EUC and that's gonna send me back another couple of ?

Which taxes? If it's VAT, pretty sure if you order from outside Switzerland, you can tell the seller so you don't pay the EU country's VAT and then it should even out with CH VAT.

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3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Which taxes? If it's VAT, pretty sure if you order from outside Switzerland, you can tell the seller so you don't pay the EU country's VAT and then it should even out with CH VAT.

yeah I'll try that. I've settled for a ks-16s, should be a good one for me.

Do you have any recommendations regarding some retailers who would ship to Switzerland?

 

Thank you all for your help!

Edited by kinggus
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37 minutes ago, kinggus said:

 

But that wheel is way over my price range, right?

The one i was looking at was a ks16s with a 680Wh battery.

i get so confused with the ACMv2/ACM2/ACM16 V2... 

Can you even lift the ks16s in the trolley handle when its folded in? Or will you just pull it out then?

I texted with a guy from the Bern store yesterday when i was in to the v8 and before i had some second thoughts. Didn't seem shady then, he even sent me a Deal proposal as a .pdf which is valid for 2 weeks. But hey! what do i know? ??

Another thing with buying from outside of Switzerland are the taxes. Since its not an EU country i have to pay taxes on the EUC and that's gonna send me back another couple of ?

not sure about pricing in your area, if you are considering the v10F, 16S, the Tesla and the 18S are in about the same range.  You can get the 18S with 840wh battery like I did if you don't need the 1680wh.  only problem with tesla is the flimsy case.  

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I'm not knowledgable about KS sellers, it's a bit easier with Gotway:efee47c9c8: @Coffee guy Any ideas where to buy a KS for Switzerland?

electro-sport.de (reputable German seller) specifically has an option for shipping to Switzerland (I guess automatically doing taxes etc.), but he only has the 840Wh version and it's way too expensive there. Link: https://www.electro-sport.de/epages/78292882.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/78292882/Products/"Kingsong KS16S (840 Wh)"

1radwerkstatt.de (German KS importer, also very reputable) has all the battery and color options, you can ask him about shipping to Switzerland, best to email: 1radwerkstatt@gmx.de (better in German than English) Link: http://www.1radwerkstatt.de/epages/80603321.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80603321/Products/KS16[1]/SubProducts/KS16-0010[1]

Maybe there are some good French KS sellers nearby, I don't know which exist for France.

It comes down to price and what they do with sending to Switzerland. 1rad has the best price I can find (and they have the 680Wh). I'd ask there.

There are several other good Euro sellers, speedyfeet.co.uk, electricunicycles.eu, but probably 1rad or a French store is best for you.

Or maybe really your local store works, if you can confirm they're ok.

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