Is bigger better?

[M640x]

On 5/28/2018 at 1:58 PM, Designated_david said:

Hi all, been reading for a while, but first time poster. 

I'm a new rider, and I just bought a KS-14S 840Wh cycle.  I have been playing around with it since Tuesday when it arrived from EWheels.com.  The first day, I spent about an hour or so falling off of the thing.  The second day, I put some air in the tire, and tried again, and discovered the art of foot placement.  For me, placing my feet farther forward, with my ankles nearer to the wheel center, and then placing my feet more outward on the pads seems to give me much more stability.  That, and looking straight ahead, or through turns, does help stability immensely.  After having taken a break on Friday and most of Saturday, I tried again Sunday, and made a huge stride in my riding...only to be put off by a moderate fall involving a knee cap and a sprained toe.  I'll be off for some days while some swelling goes down and scars form (No protection, I have a tab open to Amazon.com as we speak looking at various gear, but I was wearing the free wrist guards from EWheels).

So, from the level of instability I am experiencing, I just had a curiosity.  Is it easier to learn on a bigger wheel, or a smaller one?  I had contemplated a larger wheel, but the bigger they are, the more expensive they are.

Most people who engage in the EUC hobby would say to start off with a less expensive wheel you don't mind getting banged up while you learn, and I went for the middle of the road; something sturdy and well built, while not going straight for the Monster.  Also, I have goals of commuting home from work, and I work downtown amid a heavy sidewalk population.  My house is 10-11 miles away from my place of business, so reliable range was important as was maneuverability.  That's why I selected a 14" wheel. I know larger wheels are preferable for longer rides, and smaller ones for tighter areas, but I'm asking about the learning aspect.

What do you all think?  Is a bigger wheel or a smaller one easier to learn?  Is a 14" wheel perhaps too maneuverable for a beginner? 

I started on that exact wheel and had a hard time learning to ride on it.  I got a Z10 and could ride it instantly.  My opinion is that new riders should start on something like the Z10 or similar bigger wheel.  Bigger diam and wider tire, heavier and more gyroscopic effect.  The more stable wheel assists with staying upright which is one of the most important items until the brain and body figure out how to ride it.

[rcgldr]

Free mounting is more difficult on a smaller wheel, but as recommended by Kuji Rolls and Wrong Way, it's easier to learn to ride (and stop) using support to mount and launch, before attempting free mount, which eliminates the free mount issue. Once you've learned to ride, including at slower speeds, then to free mount, you just push the EUC forwards with one foot on, and then quickly step on with the other foot.

Almost all of the how to ride EUC videos state a beginner should start off with feet centered (front of toes and back of heels equal distant from edges of pedals) and parallel (toes sticking outwards is ok), and with pedal settings at hard (for Inmotion wheels, pedal sensitivity set to 100%). 

Yaw (twisting) steering is easier on a smaller wheel. For slow speed, yaw steering via arm flailing, with extended arms, flail left to steer right and vice versa, is helpful for balance and direction control. For some, this is almost instinctive. Video example of a 3 year old using arm flailing:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z9YiHu5HJ6o

At sufficient speed, probably 6 to 8 mph, the EUC will become stable enough that a rider won't have to focus on balance while riding in a straight line. This is a good speed to learn speed control: lean forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake, and to learn tilt steering (inner foot down, outer foot up). Getting good at tilt steering will take the longest to learn. A rider will have to learn to coordinate how much to lean versus how much to tilt the EUC, depending on speed and turning radius. For slow speed tight turns, a rider barely leans, but tilts the wheel a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqoNhGEhk2Y

At higher speed, a rider leans more than the EUC is tilted, but with the 14S, there won't be much difference in lean and tilt angle due to the narrow 2.125 inch wide tire and limited speed. Once you've learned how to tilt steer reasonably well, you should practice moving your arms and|or looking around without upsetting balance or changing direction. Start off with small movements and build up slowly. 

I used this video of a girl on an S18 as a tilt steering guide, since she just leans and tilts (Marty Backe style, but with turns). Due to the 3 inch wide tire and speed around 15 mph or so, she leans more than she tilts the S18. She moves her arms and looks to the side for cross traffic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWMwK3Cfs0

When I learned to tilt steer, I started off emulating the weave pattern she does at the end of the video, then I did large radius turns like she does in the video. I did weave drills on a long straight, lean a bit, then tilt inwards enough to straighten up for balance practice. I extended the weaving by tilting just enough to hold a lean angle for a moment, then tilted more to straighten up. As I gained experience, I varied speed and turning radius, and learned to move arms and look around. I averaged about 2.5 hours of riding time a week, and it took about a month before I could do this reasonably well, with continued improvement for next couple of months.

Edited July 30, 2022 by rcgldr

[Cassy0110]

For me, ideal is 18 inch wheel 

[mrelwood]

On 7/30/2022 at 6:47 PM, rcgldr said:

Almost all of the how to ride EUC videos state a beginner should start off with feet centered (front of toes and back of heels equal distant from edges of pedals)

Then they come to the forum because they are stuck with learning to ride, and I tell them to stand further forwards, which solves their issue. That works too... 😆

On 7/30/2022 at 6:47 PM, rcgldr said:

and with pedal settings at hard (for Inmotion wheels, pedal sensitivity set to 100%). 

This is so dependent on the wheel model that I'm not sure if it's good advice anymore. I let a friend stand on the 16S while holding on to me, and he couldn't even stop the front to back oscillation due to him overreacting to each little acceleration. On medium mode there was no problem.

To make learning advice on YouTube requires absolutely nothing from the "teacher". To have such a video is not worth much at all in itself. To be an advanced or experienced rider also doesn't mean that one would be a good teacher.

There are no standardised learning or riding techniques, and riders are usually capable of only teaching their own specific style which may or may not be advantageous to new riders.

[rcgldr]

On 7/30/2022 at 8:47 AM, rcgldr said:

pedal settings at hard (for Inmotion wheels, pedal sensitivity set to 100%). 

 

14 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This is so dependent on the wheel model that I'm not sure if it's good advice anymore. I let a friend stand on the 16S while holding on to me, and he couldn't even stop the front to back oscillation due to him overreacting to each little acceleration. On medium mode there was no problem.

 

It does depend on the EUC. For Inmotion wheels, a lower pedal sensitivity just causes them to smoothly tilt in the direction of acceleration or deceleration. There doesn't seem to be any difference in response time.  When riding, leaning forwards | backwards causes a wheel to accelerate | brake, so regardless of sensitivity, it's mostly about how much effort it takes to lean, but rate and amount of lean determine response, since the wheel has to balance the rider based on rider lean.

If standing on a wheel using support to rock back and forth, then there is an issue to sensitivity with toe or heel pressure, but when riding, it's more about leaning than focusing on foot pressure.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by rcgldr

[wstuart]

I tried learning on an MSP HT and really struggled for a few weeks.  I switched to an inmotion v8f and I was rolling in 2 days. 

 

For learning I think 16 inch wheels are great.  Smaller than that though and the lack of stability makes it harder.