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UK police wanting to contact me


Cannings

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8 hours ago, Keith said:

Somehow riding an EUC seemed way below their radar for a long while after that - trouble is low hanging fruit and 6 points on your licence is a heady combination to a stretched Force looking to get easy results.

I can't see how you could get points on your car licence for riding a wheel which is not classified as a vehicle. The department of transport say it doesn't meet the minimum requirements to be a vehicle so you can't tax and insure it for use on the road. Your driving licence does not include it so how do you get points?

 

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33 minutes ago, Juggler said:

I can't see how you could get points on your car licence for riding a wheel which is not classified as a vehicle. The department of transport say it doesn't meet the minimum requirements to be a vehicle so you can't tax and insure it for use on the road. Your driving licence does not include it so how do you get points?

 

The precedent has already been set. Some guy got 6 points for riding his EUC on the road (crossing a street I think) which put him over his allowed 12 and got him banned from driving! There have been 2 known cases of confiscation and prosecution in the UK for EUC riding.

What you describe is the big problem. As EUC's are not covered under the rules for eBikes and mobility scooters they become considered a motor vehicle but no one will insure them and the government has no framework by which to tax it. Catch 22.

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55 minutes ago, Juggler said:

I can't see how you could get points on your car licence for riding a wheel which is not classified as a vehicle. The department of transport say it doesn't meet the minimum requirements to be a vehicle so you can't tax and insure it for use on the road. Your driving licence does not include it so how do you get points?

REALLY good point - you had better tell them that!  - Your error is in assuming it isn’t a vehicle. If it has a motor and it doesn’t have working peddles and/or the motor is more than 250W then our archaic anti-green vehicle laws state, quite categorically that it IS A VEHICLE. (Which, BTW, means the reason you cannot tax or insure it is because it requires type approval. Not being taxable/insurable does not make it not a vehicle it just makes it an illegal vehicle)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/man-ended-up-six-points-12031624

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/top-motorcycle-racer-caught-riding-11739522

 

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the little euc manufacturers and the little euc dealers don’t have the deep pockets it takes to get these wheels legally adopted. 

in my own situation here in tampa, florida, i think the only way going forward is to hitch the wagon to a bird type player. hopefully they will come in and make a good presentation and toss some dollars to the government for allowing escooters in their city.

don’t give these politicians too much credit, their only concern is getting re-elected and who’s gonna buy them lunch.

in sue happy good ol usa, i’d worry more about civil liability. if ur operating an illegal device, say on a sidewalk, i don’t think insurance will cover u. 

i was watching one of chooch’s videos, and somebody kicked their leg out like playing they were gonna knock him over. 

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Im lucky i live out in the sticks where no one seems to care. Our local PCSO doesn't give a monkeys that i ride mine rounded the village. 

All the time the few hundred of us who wheel in the UK act in isolation to put pressure on MP's etc we are not going to get anywhere. We need to get organised and join up with the electric skateboard guys etc to coordinate our efforts, or even better get some press attention.  

 

 

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I have one bike trail that is within 10km of me if I want to go for a pleasure ride.  It's about 4km in length.  Tonight I counted SIX cops on foot patrol along the bike path!  

What could you possibly have SIX cops (3 pairs) patrolling a relatively short bike path for?  Think of the resources it's costing to have that many cops basically strolling and having a good time.  

I have to believe that they're aware of me at this point and are going to make it a "mission" to prevent me from being able to ride there.  What a fuckin' joke.  I'm disgusted.  

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15 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I have one bike trail that is within 10km of me if I want to go for a pleasure ride.  It's about 4km in length.  Tonight I counted SIX cops on foot patrol along the bike path!  

What could you possibly have SIX cops (3 pairs) patrolling a relatively short bike path for?  Think of the resources it's costing to have that many cops basically strolling and having a good time.  

I have to believe that they're aware of me at this point and are going to make it a "mission" to prevent me from being able to ride there.  What a fuckin' joke.  I'm disgusted.  

Yes, they really must prioritise the menace of a EUC-rider riding on a bike path at the same speeds as the bikes, but sacrilegiously without pedaling...

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Well i've been given a police officers email address and told to get in contact with her, so i've sent an email to ask to arrange a face to face to at least be able to have an honest conversation with her, yet to hear back

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On 5/25/2018 at 7:25 PM, Keith said:

(Which, BTW, means the reason you cannot tax or insure it is because it requires type approval. Not being taxable/insurable does not make it not a vehicle it just makes it an illegal vehicle)

Funny you mention this in the UK, the country of the street-legal kit car. I don't think there is any country like that in the EU where you can legally register anything as long as it has 4 wheels, an engine and the legally required lights + license plates.

 

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On 5/25/2018 at 6:31 PM, Juggler said:

I can't see how you could get points on your car licence for riding a wheel which is not classified as a vehicle.

In Belgium you can lose your car license if being caught drunk on a bicycle.

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4 hours ago, Cannings said:

Well i've been given a police officers email address and told to get in contact with her, so i've sent an email to ask to arrange a face to face to at least be able to have an honest conversation with her, yet to hear back

keep us updated with what they say hope it's just a ,,, just keep it sensible when riding etc,, you wasn't doing anyone any harm tbh

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5 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

In Belgium you can lose your car license if being caught drunk on a bicycle.

That's stupid! What if you don't have one?

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well....:

 

Paul

 My name is Alex and I am the PCSO for Hartford. I am the one who wanted to speak to you regarding the unicycle.

 Is the unicycle registered as anything other than a Segway/hover board/solo wheel ?

 If it has no further certification then it is actually considered as a mechanically propelled vehicle which cannot be ridden on pavements in England under section 72 of the Highways Act. You are also not permitted to ride Segway’s on the road as they are not permitted under the road traffic law as they are not certificated.

 I was unaware of this until a member of the public brought it to my attention so I must ask that you stop using your vehicle on the pavement and the road. If you don’t you could be liable for a £50 fine and the vehicle could be seized under section 59 of the police reform act.

 I know that this must be disappointing to you however the there is lots of information on the web regarding the restricted use of Segway’s on the public highway.

 There was a test case for this in 2011 whereby a judge defined a Segway as a mechanically propelled vehicle and issues the defendant with a £75 fine plus £265 court costs.

 At this moment Segway’s or other related vehicles are only to be used on private land.

 If you need more information then please contact me

 PCSO Alex Haskell

Cheshire Constabulary

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31 minutes ago, Cannings said:

well....:

 

Paul

 My name is Alex and I am the PCSO for Hartford. I am the one who wanted to speak to you regarding the unicycle.

 Is the unicycle registered as anything other than a Segway/hover board/solo wheel ?

 If it has no further certification then it is actually considered as a mechanically propelled vehicle which cannot be ridden on pavements in England under section 72 of the Highways Act. You are also not permitted to ride Segway’s on the road as they are not permitted under the road traffic law as they are not certificated.

 I was unaware of this until a member of the public brought it to my attention so I must ask that you stop using your vehicle on the pavement and the road. If you don’t you could be liable for a £50 fine and the vehicle could be seized under section 59 of the police reform act.

 I know that this must be disappointing to you however the there is lots of information on the web regarding the restricted use of Segway’s on the public highway.

 There was a test case for this in 2011 whereby a judge defined a Segway as a mechanically propelled vehicle and issues the defendant with a £75 fine plus £265 court costs.

 At this moment Segway’s or other related vehicles are only to be used on private land.

 If you need more information then please contact me

 PCSO Alex Haskell

Cheshire Constabulary

Hey, I'm really sorry to hear this latest news regarding you using your wheel to commute to work. You must be gutted knowing that the Police will now be on the lookout if you decide to carry on riding to work on it. Have you had any thoughts on the current turn of events, or is it still sinking in?

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18 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

This is the worst part:

" I was unaware of this until a member of the public brought it to my attention"

Who in his right mind would do crap like this?

Yes you are so right to feel that way, as that sentence also struck a nerve with me too. Unfortunately, there are always going to be small/closed minded people out there who can't wait to spoil things/life for others!

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1 hour ago, Cannings said:

Yeah i'm pretty much fucked :(

oooh man that's rubbish. there always bikes on pavements and no one says anything, the euc is no wider than your feet there's people in roller blades on bikes electric bikes are ok but they have pedals well the euc has pedals you just stand on them instead they do move but only backwards and forwards why do they have to ban everything in the uk because of old laws,i am from UK but i just ride in wood trails and canal paths i hope i am ok for a long time i love my wheel it's freedom floating feeling , sorry to hear your tranport to work has been taken away they need to be a new law

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50 minutes ago, stephen said:

electric bikes are ok but they have pedals well the euc has pedals you just stand on them instead they do move but only backwards and forwards why do they have to ban everything in the uk because of old laws

Well said. Is there anything in the so called law that says the pedals on an electric bike must actually be capable of turning the wheel?

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24 minutes ago, Juggler said:

Well said. Is there anything in the so called law that says the pedals on an electric bike must actually be capable of turning the wheel?

doesn't actually say they have to move it just says pedal assist which in any case they don't actually move on bikes when just riding downhill or stop pedaling they only assist when wanting to move just like leaning forward on an euc you just start it's momentum so the power kicks in like an ebike they pedal till the power kicks in ? bikers don't pedal to on half of the journey tbh they just keep there feet on the pedals when rolling etc 

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This totaly sucks! Am from Austria and here police is basically ignoring EUCs at the moment. I frear that there will be a point where something similar could happen here as well.

All this information should be forwarded to EUC companies. There needs to be a lobby for our devices with proper regulation. Even if that means that our max speed will be limited to 25km/h. We have this regulations for ebikes (25km/h - 600W max) but most people will have more power on there bikes anyway. 

As long as you have no accident everything is fine. But lets say you crash into an expensive car with no people hurt. You will have to pay everthing by your own and you will hate your device a while, but if you hit a person and this person gets insured you are fucked without proper regulation.

All the EUC companies should work together in that part. Many people especially in germany won't buy EUCs because of this gray area.

People wanna use EUCs on the street like a regular bicycle, we need to convince responsibles of proper laws...

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10 hours ago, Cannings said:

well....:

 

Paul

 My name is Alex and I am the PCSO for Hartford. I am the one who wanted to speak to you regarding the unicycle.

 Is the unicycle registered as anything other than a Segway/hover board/solo wheel ?

 If it has no further certification then it is actually considered as a mechanically propelled vehicle which cannot be ridden on pavements in England under section 72 of the Highways Act. You are also not permitted to ride Segway’s on the road as they are not permitted under the road traffic law as they are not certificated.

 I was unaware of this until a member of the public brought it to my attention so I must ask that you stop using your vehicle on the pavement and the road. If you don’t you could be liable for a £50 fine and the vehicle could be seized under section 59 of the police reform act.

 I know that this must be disappointing to you however the there is lots of information on the web regarding the restricted use of Segway’s on the public highway.

 There was a test case for this in 2011 whereby a judge defined a Segway as a mechanically propelled vehicle and issues the defendant with a £75 fine plus £265 court costs.

 At this moment Segway’s or other related vehicles are only to be used on private land.

 If you need more information then please contact me

 PCSO Alex Haskell

Cheshire Constabulary

Dear mister Haskell.

Right now, there is no possibility in the UK to register a Electric Unicycle as a certified vehicle in any reasonable way. There is no way to pay for traffic insurance or any meaningful regulations for how they should be constructed, what power they can have, skill-testing the driver and so on. In most countries Electric Unicycles lives in the grey area between regulations meant for Segways and electric bicycles, while in UK we're left with a law that in reality predates the car.

If my vehicle had another wheel and pedals, it would go as an electrical bicycle, and I could drive it anywhere bikes go. The difference in speed, safety, agility and braking power is actually negligible for an experienced rider. And most unicycle riders train rather well before riding anywhere close to other people. We're also usually more "aware" of our surroundings, as our vehicle is an unknown to many, and our own and their safety depends on us counting on them acting with less knowledge and wisdom than we really should be able to count on. A bicycle would also have great trouble riding at walking speeds, something I can do with ease when necessary.

If my unicycle had three or four wheels, and a licence plate, it would go as a kit car, something that is legal in this country with a bare minimum of regulations or safety considerations. But since I neither pedal my "bike" and since I have one wheel only, my ability to ride without owning huge swathes of private land is totally dependent upon the goodwill of the law enforcement and my fellow man. I use this vehicle to commute: a "no-oil" solution to a short-medium distance transportation problem.

I have no idea in what way I may have awoken the ire of a "member of the public", to the point said member felt it necessary to bring this outdated law to your attention. I ride responsibly, and take it slow whenever other people are around. I can swerve in spaces where a normal bike would be helpless, accelerate and brake much faster than most would find plausible. This is not a hover-board, nor is it truly a Segway. I can't but speculate that the sheer novelty of the concept triggers responses of fear or envy in some people. I would find that funny, if it wasn't so tragic for my circumstances.

A fine would of course hurt. I am no more keen to lose £50 than the next person. But the threat of vehicle seizure is the real killer. EUCs of quality cost anything between £800 and £2200, which is more than both the fine and the court costs incurred in that infamous case of 2011.

Frankly I find the situation slightly ridiculous. The alternative for me commuting the few miles to work would be taking the car - spewing out carbon dioxide and dragging 3500 lbs of unnecessary metal around for no reason whatsoever.

Well. I got the message. It seems new innovations are not welcome in Cheshire. I don't hold it against you personally, you're just doing your job. I have to consider how to go forward from here. There are a lot of places in this country where the Police still looks the other way, and there are a lot of riders that run around without threats of being fined, or getting their investment confiscated. Maybe I should move to one of those areas?

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i think I'll keep this if i ever need to post a letter to the police ? well said though i wish they would understand the outdated laws and they always thinking of ways to reduce pollution i just don't understand it at all maybe put more tax on fuel should do it eeeeh

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