Calibration angle — how do you ride?

[steve454]

6 hours ago, Cannings said:

So i've had my tesla at a forward 3-4 degree angle for the last week, and I have to say my little toe is really killing from being buried into the end of my shoe, i'm not sure if forward is the one for me

Try turning the wheel around and ride it with the 3-4 degree angle the opposite way and see how that feels.  Some days it just feels better to change the angle.  And it only takes a second, no recalibration required.

[Andee]

I ride a V8, 7+. This is because I am almost always riding max speed and the tilt back is annoying.

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, Andee said:

tilt back is annoying.

It was made that way for a reason.

 

”I hate red lights so I wear green lenses while driving so I don’t see them.”

[Ipsiain]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

It was made that way for a reason.

 

”I hate red lights so I wear green lenses while driving so I don’t see them.”

“ I hate the beeping tone my car makes when I don’t wear a seatbelt so i disconnected the speaker. “

[mrelwood]

”I hate the beeps my microwave does when the food is ready, so I just leave it on.”

[Ipsiain]

“ i hate the squealing sound the low pad wear tab makes when i step on the brakes, so I don’t use them no more “

[Andee]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It was made that way for a reason.

 

”I hate red lights so I wear green lenses while driving so I don’t see them.”

So, I know it was built for safety. However, I do not like how makes the pedals unparalleled to the ground I am riding on, thus the 7+ compensation. I am not suggesting to turn it off. Although, it might be interesting to be able to turn it off, yet still be able to hear the warning beeps.

 

[Ipsiain]

11 minutes ago, Andee said:

 it might be interesting to be able to turn it off, yet still be able to hear the warning beeps.

 

I believe gotway wheels are programmable  this way. 

[mrelwood]

50 minutes ago, Andee said:

So, I know it was built for safety. However, I do not like how makes the pedals unparalleled to the ground I am riding on, thus the 7+ compensation.

The issue here is that you sacrifice riding control and safety in all other riding speeds and situations in order to be able to ride the tiltback with more comfort. How much speed would you lose if you rode at just before the tiltback instead?

[who_the]

28 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The issue here is that you sacrifice riding control and safety in all other riding speeds and situations in order to be able to ride the tiltback with more comfort. 

Strongly disagree. I ride with tiltback off and have complete "control and safety" at all speeds from sub-walking to top speed. Riding angle is all about comfort and personal preference than increased or diminished control in my opinion. 

[Ipsiain]

4 minutes ago, who_the said:

Strongly disagree. I ride with tiltback off and have complete "control and safety" at all speeds from sub-walking to top speed. Riding angle is all about comfort and personal preference than increased or diminished control in my opinion. 

Yeah, but did you adjust your pedal angle to compensate for the tilt? I think that its self is the issue. So the tilt back actually levels the pedals

[who_the]

Just now, Ipsiain said:

Yeah, but did you adjust your pedal angle to compensate for the tilt? I think that its self is the issue. So the tilt back actually levels the pedals

No, there is zero tiltback on Gotway wheels when you disable it. Ever. 

[Andee]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The issue here is that you sacrifice riding control and safety in all other riding speeds and situations in order to be able to ride the tiltback with more comfort. How much speed would you lose if you rode at just before the tiltback instead?

As @who_the has mentioned, I do not feel that I am sacrificing safety. The tilt back still happens, just that it is level now and I can ride the upper bound in more comfort, thus, more control. The tilt back, without compensation, is too much for my ankles to handle.

BTW, I am not suggesting to remove the tiltback, just how to manage it a bit better.

[Shad0z]

i have mine about 3 degrees backwards. to avoid pedals scrapings. but im experiementing a little still

[Esper]

I don't believe @who_the and @Andee are talking about the exact same thing. Let me explain a little more clearly.

The 'Tilt Back' happens only at max speed. But lets just say for example top speed is 30 mph. The wheel wont go faster than that and the tilt back is so you wont fall off from leaning too far forward. Continuing to lean forward through tilt back does not increase the speed. so you are doing nothing but making your wheel beep at you and tilt back. If you ride at 30 (top speed) before you initiate tilt back, you are going the same speed.

Next. Adjusting pedal tilt to compensate for the tilt back is not the right way to do it. If your wheel has the option to disable it, then do it. But adjusting your wheel's pedal tilt for that reason will undermine your slow speed performance. In my opinion, its like having the tilt back on in reverse. When doing slow the machine wants you to lean forward?

That seems dangerous to me in that when I would try to slow down the pedal will actively lean the opposite way of the humans natural way of slowing down when going fast. If its working for you, great. But I for one will never do this for something so trivial as 'riding through the tilt back so its more level' because I know how to ride at top speed without activating the tilt back.

[Chriull]

1 minute ago, Esper said:

I don't believe @who_the and @Andee are talking about the exact same thing. Let me explain a little more clearly.

The 'Tilt Back' happens only at max speed. But lets just say for example top speed is 30 mph. The wheel wont go faster than that

No

1 minute ago, Esper said:

and the tilt back is so you wont fall off from leaning too far forward.

No.

If the wheel does not accelerate (gets faster) one falls off.

Tiltback goes further and accelerates even a bit more the reach the backward tilt.

1 minute ago, Esper said:

Continuing to lean forward through tilt back does not increase the speed.

It does - if not (max torque speed limit reached) one overleans (falls over)

1 minute ago, Esper said:

 

 

[Esper]

I guess I am wrong about everything I said and that whatever you're doing is the right thing to do.

[Mono]

 

On 5/25/2018 at 8:14 PM, Andee said:

As @who_the has mentioned, I do not feel that I am sacrificing safety. The tilt back still happens, just that it is level now and I can ride the upper bound in more comfort, thus, more control. The tilt back, without compensation, is too much for my ankles to handle.

BTW, I am not suggesting to remove the tiltback, just how to manage it a bit better.

The safety feature of tilt-back is that it strongly incentivizes the rider to slow down, because it is hard (up to impossible, depending on the angle) to keep the feet in the backwards tilt position which is necessary to maintain the speed under tilt-back (leveling the pedals will bring the wheel in front of the rider and thus inevitably initiate a slowdown). If you have changed the base angle such that the tilt-back angle is horizontal you have turned off the mechanism by which tilt-back makes riding the wheel safer. For your safety remains that the change in pedal tilt signals that the wheel has reached the limit speed. The strong incentive to slow down has disappeared.

If you ride your wheel at tilt-back speed on level "with more control" you ride it in a constant over-speed situation. I am not quite convinced that this is what I could call uncompromised safety.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Mono

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, Chriull said:

No

No.

I think @Esper got the big picture right (and I agree with him 100%), he just simplified the mechanics of tilt-back a bit. I don’t think the details are that important here, but since they’re on the table...

Quote

Tiltback goes further and accelerates even a bit more the reach the backward tilt.

Yes... and keeps accelerating ie rising the tilt-back angle until the speed comes back down below 30km/h (or whatever the limit is).

Usually the tilt-back starts before the limit, for example at 29km/h. Riding at 29.5km/h can be done with a steady tilt-back, which I understand @Andee is doing here. But riding at 30.5km/h will slowly rise the tilt-back to it’s maximum, which is far more than can be counter-adjusted with calibration. Therefore 30.5km/h with level pedals won’t happen no matter how you calibrate the wheel.

Tilt-back specifics of course vary by manufacturer, but that is how IPS and KingSong tilt-backs behave.

10 hours ago, Andee said:

The tilt back, without compensation, is too much for my ankles to handle.

Props to you for looking for a solution to a problem. How about just not riding at tilt-back?!

The safety is of course not hindered by going 29.5 instead of 29km/h. It is hindered by:

• Travelling in an unstable mode, where the pedal angle varies constantly.
• When braking from full speed, the device will force a strong opposing forward tilt.
• Feet slipping forward when trying to brake fast in an emergency or otherwise surprising situation.
• Feet slipping forward when riding over  cracks on pavement, small rocks, gravel, anything other than a fresh pavement.
• Easy eject when riding into a pot hole, soft gravel/dirt/sand, or any other obstacle.
• Easier pedal scraping during cornering.

To me it sounds like all this is ok to be sacrificed in order to go 29.5 instead of 29km/h. And that would be stupid.

Edited May 26, 2018 by mrelwood

[Andee]

8 hours ago, Esper said:

I guess I am wrong about everything I said and that whatever you're doing is the right thing to do.

@Esper no need for resignation. I think we are just discussing. Who knows? you can be right! ? 

[Andee]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

How about just not riding at tilt-back?!

I guess its somewhat like a love-hate relationship. I know it is useful, however, it hinders my freedom, so If I want to keep riding, Ill just have to compromise with it.
My next option would be to upgrade to V10F hehe...

[Esper]

On 5/25/2018 at 11:59 PM, Andee said:

I guess its somewhat like a love-hate relationship. I know it is useful, however, it hinders my freedom, so If I want to keep riding, Ill just have to compromise with it.
My next option would be to upgrade to V10F hehe...

I hope to don't read about you in the TIFU page on Reddit or on here talking about a crash. I personally feel much safer when riding level at all speeds. I also feel safer pushing my heels forward when trying to brake as it feels more natural to me as opposed to the opposite of having my heels raised and my toes down. (Imagine trying to slow down from full sprint in high heels)

[Shad0z]

1 hour ago, Esper said:

I hope to don't read about you in the TIFU page on Reddit or on here talking about a crash. I personally feel much safer when riding level at all speeds. I also feel safer pushing my heels forward when trying to brake as it feels more natural to me as opposed to the opposite of having my heels raised and my toes down. (Imagine trying to slow down from full sprint in high heels)

i used to ride with backwards tilt. a few days ago i turned it back to only slight backward tilt. much better i agree.

i also thinkl it would be consuming more battery having your feet back wards or front and not just level

[RockyTop]

On 5/25/2018 at 6:29 PM, Esper said:

Continuing to lean forward through tilt back does not increase the speed. so you are doing nothing but making your wheel beep at you and tilt back. If you ride at 30 (top speed) before you initiate tilt back, you are going the same speed.
 

This is scary that people think this is true.  OK, The physics: You can`t balace unless you can go faster.  I hesitate to give out this info but if you look on the web you can find it.  The newest msuper V3s+ has a listed speed of 30+ MPH. ( cruze at 30, tilt at 31 or 32 ? ). The wheel has to be able to go faster and it can but it reduces the safty margin. It can not stop you from going faster if it did you would fall on your face. It can and will go faster after the tilt. The msuper will go much faster. You can watch videos of people faceplanting at 45mph on YouTube. Eventualy you will faceplant or the wheel will cut off. When you ride the tilt you can go faster and you have passed the magin of safty. Many things go into calculating the safe wheel speed (power of motor, powere of battery, top RPM of motor, weight of rider, charge of battery, incline of riding surface,tire pressure and more). The faster the wheel can go the larger the margin of safty needs to be. 

So you don`t believe me? Turn on your wheel and get your phone out. (Disclaimer: don`t do the following. It could be dangerous) lift the wheel and very slowly tilt the wheel and watch the speed on your phone. May take a little practice. You can watch the wheel pass the tilt speed and then continue to the cut off speed.  My wheel tilts at 22mph and cuts out at 30mph.  Keep in mind that this test does not figure for resistance. If the wheel has a charge of 36% with a 200 pound rider and you start up a hill while riding the tilt at 24mph you could easily faceplant. The whole principle of the self balacing wheel is balacing the wheel by going faster when you lean forward.

Be safe and please stop riding the tilt. Get a faster wheel 

Edited May 29, 2018 by RockyTop

[GoinPostal]

On 5/25/2018 at 9:20 AM, Andee said:

So, I know it was built for safety. However, I do not like how makes the pedals unparalleled to the ground I am riding on, thus the 7+ compensation. I am not suggesting to turn it off. Although, it might be interesting to be able to turn it off, yet still be able to hear the warning beeps.

 

I’m afraid I see pain in your immediate future.  Tilt-back is the wheels last gasp at forcing you to slow down because it is about to power down and drop you on your face.  According to all I have read, the v8 is the most forgiving.  Even money says if you rode a Gotway the way you have ridden your v8, you would already be missing teeth.