alcatraz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I enjoyed watching your video Marty. Thanks for posting. I'm sure it's been asked before but how is it you can read the temperature on your wrist? I'm thinking about getting an msuper or the new kingsong 18L. Do you think commuting on a gotway is asking for trouble? Had any issues with your msuper? Is it the 2kW model? Cheers! Edit: I'm curious, have you ever arrived at the bottom of these descents with more charge than you had at the top? A stronger wheel should be able to regen more than an older weaker model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, alcatraz said: I enjoyed watching your video Marty. Thanks for posting. I'm sure it's been asked before but how is it you can read the temperature on your wrist? I'm thinking about getting an msuper or the new kingsong 18L. Do you think commuting on a gotway is asking for trouble? Had any issues with your msuper? Is it the 2kW model? Cheers! Edit: I'm curious, have you ever arrived at the bottom of these descents with more charge than you had at the top? A stronger wheel should be able to regen more than an older weaker model. I use the WheelLog app in combination with a Pebble watch. Works with Gotway and KingSong wheels. You will get very little (if any) recharge on the way down, but the ride down will consume very little extra power. Think of it this way. It can take >12 hours to fully charge my wheel when plugged in. Riding down a 5000 foot mountain might take an hour. Even if the wheel was regenerating energy at the same rate of a power brick, I'd get about 1-hours worth of charge. But you don't get nearly that much charge. I've had zero problems with my 10-month old MSuper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I use the WheelLog app in combination with a Pebble watch. Works with Gotway and KingSong wheels. And Inmotion thanks to palachzzz's update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I'm still wondering how braking works. I thought the unicycles more or less depended on regen to brake. If not they would need some pretty huge extreme temperature resistors to absorb that energy. The batteries can sustain a charge current a lot larger than what the powerbricks can supply. Of course the efficiency and abrupt current won't be near optimal but I'd have guessed it should regen at least a little. I'm just brainstorming here. Don't mean to argue or anything. Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoinPostal Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 58 minutes ago, alcatraz said: I'm still wondering how braking works. I thought the unicycles more or less depended on regen to brake. If not they would need some pretty huge extreme temperature resistors to absorb that energy. The batteries can sustain a charge current a lot larger than what the powerbricks can supply. Of course the efficiency and abrupt current won't be near optimal but I'd have guessed it should regen at least a little. I'm just brainstorming here. Don't mean to argue or anything. Just curious... It is regen braking. You are not confused, you were just confused about being confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Marty Backe said: You will get very little (if any) recharge on the way down, but the ride down will consume very little extra power. That would be about my assumption, too. Especially on trails with not too much speed, bumps (balancing) and some needed inbetween accelerations... On your great video, btw i hope i can arrange a limited (just 820Wh ?) mountain weekend once for myself, there are some nice higher speed trails which maybe could change the situation to some real surplus? There where some reports of members who say that they get longer ranges on hilly tracks. Which i cannot really believe - for me range goes down if i only look at a hill ? Quote Think of it this way. It can take >12 hours to fully charge my wheel when plugged in. Riding down a 5000 foot mountain might take an hour. Even if the wheel was regenerating energy at the same rate of a power brick, I'd get about 1-hours worth of charge. But you don't get nearly that much charge. With the ks16s i get about max 10-15A charge current while braking. With the 6p pack that's stil a bit less then a 1C charge but much more as with the standard charger. Maybe with some "real" braking it could still get higher? This 10-15A on the Ks should be just about 600-1kW of braking power, but Ks and also GW are known for showing amps with quite some "off" factor... But i never did longer downhill rides to see how the real outcome is/could be... Do GW wheels in whellog show negative currents for recharging like the KS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Chriull said: That would be about my assumption, too. Especially on trails with not too much speed, bumps (balancing) and some needed inbetween accelerations... On your great video, btw i hope i can arrange a limited (just 820Wh ?) mountain weekend once for myself, there are some nice higher speed trails which maybe could change the situation to some real surplus? There where some reports of members who say that they get longer ranges on hilly tracks. Which i cannot really believe - for me range goes down if i only look at a hill ? With the ks16s i get about max 10-15A charge current while braking. With the 6p pack that's stil a bit less then a 1C charge but much more as with the standard charger. Maybe with some "real" braking it could still get higher? This 10-15A on the Ks should be just about 600-1kW of braking power, but Ks and also GW are known for showing amps with quite some "off" factor... But i never did longer downhill rides to see how the real outcome is/could be... Do GW wheels in whellog show negative currents for recharging like the KS? I think if we could ride down a theoretical smooth and very steep ramp there would be more regenerative charging. But in the real world, when going down a trail, you aren't continuously breaking, you are also driving forward which is consuming some of that regenerative energy. I can say that when I ride around some of my local mountains, I absolutely get more range from my wheel compared to riding a flat ground. I've never looked at WheelLog while going down hill. I'll have to experiment with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I can say that when I ride around some of my local mountains, I absolutely get more range from my wheel compared to riding a flat ground. 17 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Put another way, a 1600wh MSuper V3s+ was able to travel 36-miles and climb and descend 4600-feet while consuming 80% of the battery. That's rather impressive and clearly demonstrates that regenerative charging was in play. Not in this case? On flat roads you get more as this 36 miles from 80% charge, or not? 5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I've never looked at WheelLog while going down hill. I'll have to experiment with it. Maybe save a log file ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Chriull said: Not in this case? On flat roads you get more as this 36 miles from 80% charge, or not? Maybe save a log file ? On flat roads I get substantially more range. That's true. But I think 36-miles is impressive when it includes climbing 4600-feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 37 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: On flat roads I get substantially more range. That's true. But I think 36-miles is impressive when it includes climbing 4600-feet. Yes, indeed. 7 hours ago, Chriull said: 7 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I can say that when I ride around some of my local mountains, I absolutely get more range from my wheel compared to riding a flat ground. On 5/22/2018 at 4:30 PM, Marty Backe said: Just out of curiosity - you remember the differences of the trips when you got this absolute range increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, Chriull said: Yes, indeed. Just out of curiosity - you remember the differences of the trips when you got this absolute range increase? I'm not sure I understand your question. I get about 55-miles when riding on flat ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Damn Marty!! Fantastic dreamy ride up through the clouds and then you get above them and have that fantastic Alpine scenery. I know why I love mountain riding and why I wish I had a more trustworthy wheel. The ride down also looked like a lot of relaxing fun. And 20% battery no-load is just the point where you would barely have gotten any further, so you fully utilized your battery. Also great find with this incline-controlled path due to it being a former car route. And very nice video editing and scenes you did overall Two questions: Were your cooling stops irregular (just when you didn't like the temperature on some occasions) or did you have regular stops? How much leg pad pinching do you have to do on the msuper vs the ACM? I'm using pedals only on my ACM on inclines and it works great (well tiptoeing too long can get uncomfortable, but breaks are needed anyways), so wondering how you mountain ride with your ACM and ms3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Svanfelt Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 20 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: http://www.policemag.com/blog/careers/story/2010/10/fancy-vests-that-save-lives.aspx Hi, here comes good news to all guys who do not like reflective vests: LifePaint by Volvo https://www.volvocars.com/uk/about/humanmade/projects/lifepaint Regards Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Damn Marty!! Fantastic dreamy ride up through the clouds and then you get above them and have that fantastic Alpine scenery. I know why I love mountain riding and why I wish I had a more trustworthy wheel. The ride down also looked like a lot of relaxing fun. And 20% battery no-load is just the point where you would barely have gotten any further, so you fully utilized your battery. Also great find with this incline-controlled path due to it being a former car route. And very nice video editing and scenes you did overall Two questions: Were your cooling stops irregular (just when you didn't like the temperature on some occasions) or did you have regular stops? How much leg pad pinching do you have to do on the msuper vs the ACM? I'm using pedals only on my ACM on inclines and it works great (well tiptoeing too long can get uncomfortable, but breaks are needed anyways), so wondering how you mountain ride with your ACM and ms3. Thanks. It really is a fantastic ride, plus there are restrooms at the top and hot & cold food I stopped a few irregular times not only for the wheel, but for me. I think I probably could have ascended without any stops, but I am riding a Gotway, so at this point I'm going to stick a bit on the conservative side and give it a short periodic rest. On my ACM I don't grip the wheel at all when climbing, like you. But the MSuper just doesn't have the same amount of torque, so I need to grab the wheel with my legs. Not all the time, but on the steeper sections I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Damn Marty!! Fantastic dreamy ride up through the clouds and then you get above them and have that fantastic Alpine scenery. I know why I love mountain riding and why I wish I had a more trustworthy wheel. The ride down also looked like a lot of relaxing fun. And 20% battery no-load is just the point where you would barely have gotten any further, so you fully utilized your battery. Better put that Msuper X order in, meeps. It's calling you.... meeeepss.......meeeeEEEEEeeeeppppssss.... buy me buuuuuy me..... 3 hours ago, dismason said: Hi, here comes good news to all guys who do not like reflective vests: LifePaint by Volvo https://www.volvocars.com/uk/about/humanmade/projects/lifepaint Regards Carl We talked about that Lifepaint stuff before. Good idea, but I think the concensus was that it didn't work as good as it was advertised to. https://www.bikeradar.com/commuting/gear/category/accessories/product/review-volvo-lifepaint-50014/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Better put that Msuper X order in, meeps. It's calling you.... meeeepss.......meeeeEEEEEeeeeppppssss.... buy me buuuuuy me..... You don't have to convince me in the slightest, the X has been on my mind ever since its board pictures - you just have to convince my wallet Otherwise I'd probably already have done a certain AliExpress transaction. Despite it being an unknown new GW wheel and having tiny tire clearance. You have some spare ~1600€ you don't need lying around perchance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Let me wire that straight to you! I'm pretty sure my "Marty BackeTM" royalty stream money will cover it, but we are delayed on the MB reflective riding vests and EUC riding flags at the moment. Someone needs a bit more convincing before we can put it to market. It's so difficult working with some of these sports personalities, I tell ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 On 5/23/2018 at 1:21 AM, Marty Backe said: Do you think I'd be into riding EUCs (one wheel self-balancing machines with zero redundancy) if I was the kind of person to wear safety vests and flags What's the difference between this and wearing a helmet, knee pads, gloves, wrist protectors and a rear view mirror? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 8 hours ago, ir_fuel said: What's the difference between this and wearing a helmet, knee pads, gloves, wrist protectors and a rear view mirror? The vest isn't much of a fashion statement. I'd rather not look too dorky while riding around. Personal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 On 5/24/2018 at 6:26 PM, Marty Backe said: I'd rather not look too dorky while riding around Says the man who wears a rear view mirror. Sorry couldn't resist ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, ir_fuel said: Says the man who wears a rear view mirror. Sorry couldn't resist ? Hey now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasenutty Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 On 5/22/2018 at 11:28 PM, Chriull said: That would be about my assumption, too. Especially on trails with not too much speed, bumps (balancing) and some needed inbetween accelerations... On your great video, btw i hope i can arrange a limited (just 820Wh ?) mountain weekend once for myself, there are some nice higher speed trails which maybe could change the situation to some real surplus? There where some reports of members who say that they get longer ranges on hilly tracks. Which i cannot really believe - for me range goes down if i only look at a hill ? With the ks16s i get about max 10-15A charge current while braking. With the 6p pack that's stil a bit less then a 1C charge but much more as with the standard charger. Maybe with some "real" braking it could still get higher? This 10-15A on the Ks should be just about 600-1kW of braking power, but Ks and also GW are known for showing amps with quite some "off" factor... But i never did longer downhill rides to see how the real outcome is/could be... Do GW wheels in whellog show negative currents for recharging like the KS? Today four of us made the trek to the top of Mount Wilson again, but this time we went down the same way we went up. Much steeper decline than my previous return trip via road. My 1600wh ACM2 was at 50% battery at the top of the mountain. After a 10-mile 4600-foot descent, my resting battery level was 60%! Everyone else in the group also ended the ride with a higher battery charge than what they had at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I wonder whether with regenerative braking one has to actively be braking to store the charge? Maybe cruising at a constant velocity or just enough speed so power draw is minimal to zero doesn't cut it. Maybe the key is braking while descending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I wonder whether with regenerative braking one has to actively be braking to store the charge? Maybe cruising at a constant velocity or just enough speed so power draw is minimal to zero doesn't cut it. Maybe the key is braking while descending. Pretty sure, if the motor turns but you need no or little power, that generated power has to be stored. So just rolling down a hill without braking should be optimal for regeneration. And braking costs you because deceleration needs power. Only reason for braking should be so you don't get faster on your own infinitely, but "doing nothing" (no braking) while roling down a hill should give you back the most. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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