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Choosing Gotway ACM 16


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Hello there,

there has been a lot already said about the wheel, so I try to keep it short (not my strongest suit though ?). I struggle choosing between GW ACM and KS16S.

I like the agility of my ninebot, but hate the lack of power. KS's 35kmph should be enough, yet keeping it just right there is hard and annoying, so effectively it's slower. That towards me more to GW, but I want to use it to commute about 3 miles to work and back every day on top of the weekend fun riding. The fact that even screws are not stainless steel just worries me. Not sure how much the wheel could take using it like that. KS just seem to have overall superior quality. For not that little money I want the wheel that endures.

And as I'm used to ride with me headphones on (I know, I know, ...), I need to be sure the wheel won't cut me out just because I won't hear the beeping. The new ACM V2 12 mosfet seem to have pretty high top speed, yet is it totally safe to ride 35-37 kmph-ish without having worry about the power spikes and whatnot?

I'm the iPhone guy (but also have an android tablet). iOS KS app is just awful and may not even let me set things I need. GW looks good on the other hand.

Just some thoughts that pops in my mind.

Any thoughts of yours are very appreciated. One day I'm almost sure I want KS, the next GW. I need something durable but also powerful. Something that I won't struggle every day connecting with my iPhone.

By the way, I have just seen the video, where the KS16S just won't stop spinning every time he lifts it up just for a second to cross the terrain. Does it really need to be turned off every time or pushed using trolley?

Edited by SaiXHardt
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11 minutes ago, Arbolest said:

Hey there!

I just rode a KS16S and ACM for the first time ever the other day, so I have some (fairly) unbiased first impressions I can share with you!

I have been riding a Ninebot One E+ for 3 years, and until the other day had never touched another EUC. Nevin from Tec Toyz was nice enough to let me test-ride a few wheels to help me choose which wheel I want to upgrade to in the near future, and I must say that I was pleased! I spent some time with both the KS16S and the ACM, and they are like night and day! Both wheels have completely different ride characteristics, as well as different "voices" while they are riding. However, there was one point that really struck me hard, and that was how they actually felt between my legs! I don't know how important that feel is for you, but it was a major consideration for me as I was thinking about which of the wheels I might like to use for the foreseeable future.

 

In terms of their ergonomics:

If you are used to riding a Ninebot, then I can tell you right now that between the two, the KS16S is going to feel muuuuuuuch more natural to you. The shape of the pads, and the slimness of the wheel as a whole are going to make you feel much more at home. The angle of the pedals seemed very familiar to me... possibly angled just a tiny bit more than the Ninebot, but definitely not uncomfortable. The shape of them (with a slightly raised portion of the outside rim) also felt great, and compared to the Ninebot they really grabbed my feet and made me feel secure. Unfortunately, the pedals also seemed to be a tiny bit lower-to-the-ground than my Ninebots. the very first time I tried to turn, I scraped the crap out of the left pedal and almost came off! :blink:   

The ACM however definitely wasn't "worse"... just very different-feeling. The blockiness of it would definitely take me some time to get used to. The upper edge of the wheel (just above the super-soft pads) definitely dug into my shins a lot, and almost made me feel as if I were a newbie rider again... :crying:       That said, once I got used to the wider stance it stopped bothering me anywhere near as much, so it would just take some time and adjustment. The pedals also seemed to be just as low as the KingSong's, and I had to be conscious of that the whole time I was riding around on it. The big thing for me though, is that because of it's shorter stature (at least where it contacted my shins) the ACM seemed to be much more nimble to me. I could do more with it at a low speed once I got used to how I needed to hold it with my legs. I definitely liked that....

 

In terms of how they felt when riding:

The Kingsong freaked me out... And not in a very good way.  Something about how it handled was just utterly alien to me, and I never quite got over that during the short time I had with it. I'm not entirely sure what it was that upset me, but it just didn't seem to react the way I expected it to. I have messed around with the 10-point slider system on the Ninebot One, so I know what different levels of pedal-hardness are like, and this was nothing like that. From the way it seemed to hesitate to give me the power that I needed to stay stable when accelerating from a dead stop, to the way that it seemed to want to keep me tilted a couple degrees forward the entire time, it just felt.... WRONG somehow... The calibration may have been a bit out of whack, I'm not sure, but something just wasn't right about how it wanted to handle itself; how it wanted to move. And the pedal-dip! Every time I tried to take a turn, it felt like I was going to slide forward off the inside edge of the wheel! I was constantly paranoid about that whenever I needed to change directions, when I was making adjustments during idling, and when I just wanted to go in nice gentle circles or figure-8s! Hehhhhh I don't know if it was a problem with me or the machine, but we definitely did not get along very well... Except when riding backwards for some reason! The one good thing I will say about my time on the KS16S is that riding backwards was lovely! That may be due to the fact that I ride very differently when going backwards, but something about that experience didn't offend me at all!

The ACM. Is. A TANK. It felt like a rock. Very stable, very "planted" as @Marty Backe puts it. And I truly appreciated that. It was a bit funky to try and turn it when I compare it to my experiences on the Ninebot, but I assume that comes from all of the extra mass from the batteries. It definitely wanted to stay upright more than the Ninebot or the KingSong. The acceleration and handling of it was much more in line with what I have been expecting based on all of the excellent information here on the forums! When you tell it to go, it goes! When you tell it to stop, it stops! When you tell it to turn, you almost die because you forgot that the pedals are really wide and low and like to catch the ground like an anchor! Yup! you read that right! I was so excited to be on it I forgot on two occasions that the pedals were effectively lower than I was used to. Nearly caused a disaster, but the darn thing did NOT want to fall, and managed to pull itself upright again as if by magic! No idea how or why, but it never hit the ground the entire time I was on it! It was not, however, all sunshine and unicorns... When people say that the Gotways have soft pedals, they ain't lyin' :efef50e3ba:    If you have ever used the Ninebot app to mess with your riding style, I would equate the softness of the pedals with about...... a 6-7 on the sliding Ninebot scale (0= super hard, 9 = standing on a giant marshmallow floating on a slightly wavy ocean). That said, whatever stabilization algorithm or PID settings that Gotway is using to keep their wheels upright, it feels very similar to the Ninebot's, just way softer.

 

 

TLDR:

Now, all of that rambling my have sounded like nothing but a bunch of detraction, but I want to make it very clear that this is all just the personal opinion of a guy who's never touched anything but his Ninebot One E+! I freely admit that I don't have enough experience with multiple wheels and various brands to give anything like a well-informed suggestion, but I thoroughly enjoyed the experience of trying out two great example wheels from two of the biggest names in EUCs, and they both shone a favorable light on their brands in my eyes, just  for very different reasons!

KS16S:    I can now understand some of the things people say about the build-quality of the KingSongs being top-notch. The pedals felt amazing in general, and the ergonomics were phenomenal! The slimness and contours felt wonderful, and I can't complain about its top speed! The handle made it very comfortable to hold and carry, and when extended allowed for super easy/simple maneuvering. The only thing I will say is that they handle a bit strangely for my tastes, and I can't say that they obviously blow away all of the competition like I've heard said so many times on these forums...

ACM:    If you want to move, a Gotway will get you places. It has power, speed and a control algorithm that is comfortable and familiar. They are built like a tank, and ride just as stably. However, they also FEEL like a tank: hard, angular, and with a definite function-over-form feeling to them. I can see why some people would be put off by the super-soft-feeling pedals, but once you acclimate to them, it's a great machine that will do whatever you ask of it to the absolute best of it's ability. Even if that happens to be bad for it. As a guy that likes to be able to set his own limits and take his fate into his own hands, this is a definite plus. :thumbup:

Very well put. You should write more reviews :cheers:

I will only add that if @SaiXHardt is considering the purchase of the ACM2 (please do so if at all possible), it's more powerful and robust that the ACM Nevin loaned you. The pedal firmness of the newer Gotway wheels is now rock hard.

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1 hour ago, Arbolest said:

Hey there!

...

In terms of how they felt when riding:

The Kingsong freaked me out... And not in a very good way.  Something about how it handled was just utterly alien to me, and I never quite got over that during the short time I had with it. I'm not entirely sure what it was that upset me, but it just didn't seem to react the way I expected it to. I have messed around with the 10-point slider system on the Ninebot One, so I know what different levels of pedal-hardness are like, and this was nothing like that. From the way it seemed to hesitate to give me the power that I needed to stay stable when accelerating from a dead stop, to the way that it seemed to want to keep me tilted a couple degrees forward the entire time, it just felt.... WRONG somehow... The calibration may have been a bit out of whack, I'm not sure, but something just wasn't right about how it wanted to handle itself; how it wanted to move. And the pedal-dip! Every time I tried to take a turn, it felt like I was going to slide forward off the inside edge of the wheel! I was constantly paranoid about that whenever I needed to change directions, when I was making adjustments during idling, and when I just wanted to go in nice gentle circles or figure-8s! Hehhhhh I don't know if it was a problem with me or the machine, but we definitely did not get along very well...

...

Great post. As @Marty Backe said, you should definitely write more!

I have tried the KS16S and it behaved exactly as you described ... it definitely has a weird personality. Nice features and build quality, though. Like you, I am also considering Gotway if the NBZ10 disappoints.

Edited by litewave
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59 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Very well put. You should write more reviews :cheers:

I will only add that if @SaiXHardt is considering the purchase of the ACM2 (please do so if at all possible), it's more powerful and robust that the ACM Nevin loaned you. The pedal firmness of the newer Gotway wheels is now rock hard.

I am riding a KS14S as well as the latest ACM2. The pedal hardness is practically the same, I ride both on 'hard'. If you want to commute you should get the ACM2. I just started commuting and I run the ACM2 at 23-25 mph for long times, that includes light but consistent inclines, strong winds, etc. . It is steady and in no way telling me to stop pushing it at those speeds. 

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5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

You just need a gentle push to buy the ACM2. There, I just gave it to you. Buy it and don't look back :D

I need a gentle push towards the acm @Marty Backe  I am looking at buying an acm2 for my son, but have a couple questions. I have the lnmotion v10f, and my son has a hard time going uphill with it, due to the force needed to move the wheel. I was wondering if the acm requires as much force to move the wheel uphill? He has been riding a ks14d for a few months now and has no problem riding lt Uphill. Also how maneuverable is it due to its weight? 

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55 minutes ago, Jpd said:

I need a gentle push towards the acm @Marty Backe  I am looking at buying an acm2 for my son, but have a couple questions. I have the lnmotion v10f, and my son has a hard time going uphill with it, due to the force needed to move the wheel. I was wondering if the acm requires as much force to move the wheel uphill? He has been riding a ks14d for a few months now and has no problem riding lt Uphill. Also how maneuverable is it due to its weight? 

I came from the KS14S as my first wheel and while the ACM2 needed more input it took about 5 minutes to get that and then I was fine. Now I think I actually have more control over the ACM2 in off-road situations than I have with the KS14S due to the wider stance. I do prefer the ACM2 over the KS14S in rough terrain as I feel it's easier to control even when going slow. The weight never occurred to me as a problem until I need to lift it. It sure feels heavy then but I don't notice it when riding. 

 

Edited by MacPara
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1 hour ago, MacPara said:

I came from the KS14S as my first wheel and while the ACM2 needed more input it took about 5 minutes to get that and then I was fine. Now I think I actually have more control over the ACM2 in off-road situations than I have with the KS14S due to the wider stance. I do prefer the ACM2 over the KS14S in rough terrain as I feel it's easier to control even when going slow. The weight never occurred to me as a problem until I need to lift it. It sure feels heavy then but I don't notice it when riding. 

 

We try to discourage the carrying of wheels. They're meant to be ridden :laughbounce2:

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4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

We try to discourage the carrying of wheels. They're meant to be ridden :laughbounce2:

Damn right... I take pride in the fact that my riding boots are heavily scuffed, but the soles look like they did when they came out of the box!   :D

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12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

We try to discourage the carrying of wheels. They're meant to be ridden :laughbounce2:

LOL. That's why I prefer riding from home over driving to a location to start riding there. It's that lifting the thing in and out of the trunk that tells me I still have all the batteries in it....

Edited by MacPara
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Consider me being gently pushed @Marty Backe but not quite there yet ? I was just about to buy from a german shop before I realized I'm missing like 15 EUR (god damnit  ?) on the account I use solely for stuff paid over internet. Just being cautious.

Now as I have to hopefully wait only for tomorrow until my account tops up. Some other thing crossed my mind. How does the cut off affair ended up? I'm going for 84V 1600Wh V2S + 12 MOSFET version. Any chance it's still one the affected wheels?

Edited by SaiXHardt
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19 minutes ago, SaiXHardt said:

Consider me being gently pushed @Marty Backe but not quite there yet ? I was just about to buy from a german shop before I realized I'm missing like 15 EUR (god damnit  ?) on the account I use solely for stuff paid over internet. Just being cautious.

Now as I have to hopefully wait only for tomorrow until my account tops up. Some other thing crossed my mind. How does the cut off affair ended up? I'm going for 84V 1600Wh V2S + 12 MOSFET version. Any chance it's still one the affected wheels?

I think you're referring to the firmware issue that afflicted the MSupers and ACMs in early to mid 2017?  Assuming that your wheel was manufactured after July 2017 you should be good. Either your seller can tell you or you'll see the manufacture date on the QC card that ships with the wheel.

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25 minutes ago, SaiXHardt said:

Yes, that. What I meant if it's still common or possible to buy one of these a year later. Or if simple firmware update will fix things up just if I'm unlucky enough.

Being about one year since this problem was fixed, it would be exceedingly unlucky to get one of these wheels. Honestly, the place that you are buying it from should be able to tell you the approximate manufacture date of the wheel.

A firmware update would fix the problem, but it's not simple. The control board has to be removed and replaced unless your dealer has access to the special Gotway hardware that's required to re-flash the boards :(

Edited by Marty Backe
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On 5/17/2018 at 6:21 PM, Arbolest said:

Hey there!

I just rode a KS16S and ACM for the first time ever the other day, so I have some (fairly) unbiased first impressions I can share with you!

 

Does it feel uncomfortable riding The acm due to its width or does it take getting used to?

Edited by dmethvin
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On 5/20/2018 at 9:11 PM, Bigmac0678 said:

Does it feel uncomfortable riding The acm due to its width or does it take getting used to?

Coming from riding a Ninebot, it was initially a bit uncomfortable. It took me a little while to get used to how I had to stand and hold my feet while riding it to keep the corners from digging into my shins, but once I figured it out, it was perfectly fine. In all honesty, I kind of liked the wider stance because of how it allowed me to control the wheel so finely. What I mean is that even though my Ninebot is slimmer and more "twitchy" (easy to turn in any direction at any time), the wider stance of the ACM actually allowed me to control its exact attitude much more precisely without preventing me from angling it in any serious way. In this case, it's almost apples and oranges, but I like each one for its own reasons.

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Agreed, I'm 6' 5" and I prefer the wide ACM of my friends over the V8 I've been using. 

3 hours ago, Arbolest said:

Coming from riding a Ninebot, it was initially a bit uncomfortable. It took me a little while to get used to how I had to stand and hold my feet while riding it to keep the corners from digging into my shins, but once I figured it out, it was perfectly fine. In all honesty, I kind of liked the wider stance because of how it allowed me to control the wheel so finely. What I mean is that even though my Ninebot is slimmer and more "twitchy" (easy to turn in any direction at any time), the wider stance of the ACM actually allowed me to control its exact attitude much more precisely without preventing me from angling it in any serious way. In this case, it's almost apples and oranges, but I like each one for its own reasons.

 

Edited by Adam Sharkan
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I have received my ACM 1600Wh today, yet couldn't ride it because out of all days, it has to finally rain today ? My first impression, when I took it of the box, wow, that's just way too thick! I only had the chance to ride in interior. But as far I can say, it gonna takes some time and bruises until I hope my legs will adapt. I'm only 170 cm tall, and even the sides are soft, the very top of them just end where my calf are already beginning, causing noticeable pain. One or two centimeters and I would be just fine. Having a little bigger legs as I go to gym almost every day, doesn't help either. I hope it gets better in time. And there's not really much to talk about yet, except...

... the motor number. There are two numbers on the box and both starts with infamous 1705. I have already contacted the seller by mail, to see what can they say about this. It was bought from German shop, electro-sport.de which seem to be pretty known, and on the package, there is stated it was actually sent by 1RadWerkstatt (dropshipped?), which was highly recommended by the community here and there. So I have a little hope, they might have already re-flashed the board or actually have the way to say exactly if this number was affected. I may have be prepared to test the wheel in slow speed riding over curbs, but not feel like trying that in high speed, as that was sometimes the only time when the cut off manifested. Plus it might take a lot of time to make sure. I read here on the forum about the guy who high speeded over 50km long distance one day, and cut off the other day crusing probably over just a little bump. Damn it.

Edited by SaiXHardt
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45 minutes ago, SaiXHardt said:

I have received my ACM 1600Wh today, yet couldn't ride it because out of all days, it has to finally rain today ? My first impression, when I took it of the box, wow, that's just way too thick! I only had the chance to ride in interior. But as far I can say, it gonna takes some time and bruises until I hope my legs will adapt. I'm only 170 cm tall, and even the sides are soft, the very top of them just end where my calf are already beginning, causing noticeable pain. One or two centimeters and I would be just fine. Having a little bigger legs as I go to gym almost every day, doesn't help either. I hope it gets better in time. And there's not really much to talk about yet, except...

... the motor number. There are two numbers on the box and both starts with infamous 1705. I have already contacted the seller by mail, to see what can they say about this. It was bought from German shop, electro-sport.de which seem to be pretty known, and on the package, there is stated it was actually sent by 1RadWerkstatt (dropshipped?), which was highly recommended by the community here and there. So I have a little hope, they might have already re-flashed the board or actually have the way to say exactly if this number was affected. I may have be prepared to test the wheel in slow speed riding over curbs, but not feel like trying that in high speed, as that was sometimes the only time when the cut off manifested. Plus it might take a lot of time to make sure. I read here on the forum about the guy who high speeded over 50km long distance one day, and cut off the other day crusing probably over just a little bump. Damn it.

The problem was with the firmware, not the motor. I was never convinced that the motor code proved anything. I'm sure yours is OK considering the affected units were made about a year ago.

It can take a week+ for your legs and body to adjust to a new wheel. Give it some time :)

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@SaiXHardt The electro-sport guy and the 1rad guy work closely together (as well as with the German Gotway importer, 1rad is the KS importer and stores the other guys' wheels) and both are very reputable. Hoping they can give you a definitive answer that your board firmware is ok. Though it's a bit disappointing the wheel he sold you is a year old, but if the board is fine, whatever.

The interesting number is the serial number (which is below the bar code on the sticker, the motor code does not really matter, it's just the production date of the motor) as it is the assembly date and that might indicate the board firmware. Also, I can't remember, but I don't know whether ACMs were affected by the oscillation thing...

Anyways, enjoy your new wheel! I recommend 35km/h beeper (which coincides with the default 2nd alarm - 3 beeps) as a speed limit with a big margin left (I'm 80kg). Depending on your weight, if it matches your height (70kg or less?), 40 should also be ok I hope, no guarantees, but there's always the 80% alarm so just try it.

@Arbolest Now that is a fantastic write-up! :efefae4566::efefae4566::efefae4566: And you're right, the ACM is super grounded and tank-like, and the wide stance and low center of weight makes it very easy to maneuver. It's a really strong wheel that stays rock solid level until the battery is empty.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@SaiXHardt The electro-sport guy and the 1rad guy work closely together (as well as with the German Gotway importer, 1rad is the KS importer and stores the other guys' wheels) and both are very reputable. Hoping they can give you a definitive answer that your board firmware is ok. Though it's a bit disappointing the wheel he sold you is a year old, but if the board is fine, whatever.

The interesting number is the serial number (which is below the bar code on the sticker, the motor code does not really matter, it's just the production date of the motor) as it is the assembly date and that might indicate the board firmware. Also, I can't remember, but I don't know whether ACMs were affected by the oscillation thing...

Anyways, enjoy your new wheel! I recommend 35km/h beeper (which coincides with the default 2nd alarm - 3 beeps) as a speed limit with a big margin left (I'm 80kg). Depending on your weight, if it matches your height (70kg or less?), 40 should also be ok I hope, no guarantees, but there's always the 80% alarm so just try it.

@Arbolest Now that is a fantastic write-up! :efefae4566::efefae4566::efefae4566: And you're right, the ACM is super grounded and tank-like, and the wide stance and low center of weight makes it very easy to maneuver. It's a really strong wheel that stays rock solid level until the battery is empty.

They were. When Jason was reflashing his delivered inventory, he reflashed all of the ACMs that he received. I watched him do it.

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Just got a response from 1rad, that quickly.

You are right. This is a wheel with fault firmware but your mainboard is
changed before send to you.

All is safe and fine.

We have a complete list from GotWay....and all on this list become new
mainboard!
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