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Ninebot One Z8 Open-β Tester's FAQ (link)


Niaraeth
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14 minutes ago, Niaraeth said:

Hi guys,

I got into Beta-testing, Z8. 

Here's my Report/FAQ, on the official Ninebot bbs. (due to contract I can only link it)

[EN] Z8 Open-β Testing Report - FAQ

If you guys have more questions I can add them to the FAQ.

IMG_0663.JPG

i would love to hear how it -powerwise- compares to a GW Tesla or a Msuper V3s+.....

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Just now, US69 said:

i would love to hear how it -powerwise- compares to a GW Tesla or a Msuper V3s+.....

Powerwise? Well the Max output is 1500W (Z10 is 1800W), dunno if that's what you are asking... 

P.S. Kannst du vielleicht den anderen post in Reviews auch freischalten? Danke :)

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1 minute ago, Niaraeth said:

Powerwise? Well the Max output is 1500W (Z10 is 1800W), dunno if that's what you are asking... 

P.S. Kannst du vielleicht den anderen post in Reviews auch freischalten? Danke :)

No, thats not what i asked......and yeah, the max output on a Tesla is 3000Watt+....as it is nominal 2000W

I mean how is the acceleration compared to a Tesla or a other new GW powerhorse?

How is the pedal hardness? Is it weak, does it tiltback/forward on hard pushs or hard breaking?

 

To be honest: With a 59Volt System i just have my doubts that -powerwise- and for a very experienced rider it is in the same class as for example a Tesla.

But i am eager to learn more...

 

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7 minutes ago, Niaraeth said:

 

P.S. Kannst du vielleicht den anderen post in Reviews auch freischalten? Danke :)

Sorry, please, as it is the exact same post...and we started the discussion here, i deleted this one...

 

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1 hour ago, Niaraeth said:

Powerwise? Well the Max output is 1500W (Z10 is 1800W), dunno if that's what you are asking... 

P.S. Kannst du vielleicht den anderen post in Reviews auch freischalten? Danke :)

So that is MAX output, not nominal? Most manufacturers give two numbers, one nominal one max.

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@Niaraeth

Unfortunatly i am not able to take away any "Standard Forum mechanism for newbies" that prohibit you from doing more Posts on your first day, today.

(I am trying to figure out with the admin).....

 

Just to my further question: As is understand now, you have been a 9b s2 owner "only" .....so i would guess you are the wrong Person to ask for a comparison with top notch GW wheels?

Or are you highly experienced in other wheels than the 9b's???

 

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11 minutes ago, US69 said:

As is understand now, you have been a 9b s2 owner "only"

No... also C+ it seems. :efefa6edcf:

Quote

Q: I heard from other ppl from bbs/youtube that it sux?
  A: As far as I know, what we have are the official Open-Beta-versions, delivere to China users only (60 pieces in total, 20 each Z6/8/10). In the last two weeks we tested, fed-back and got FOUR hardware updates that corrected turning, Acceleration, lift-mechanism, light-on-off and tilt-protection angles. AND on top of it, our mainboard are also going to be changed. So if anyone from Not-China reviewed a closed-beta model, it's not what you are going to get when you buy it.

So what is the point of the OPEN beta testing if there will be so many changes for the final product? Even no need to review it at all since the final product will be different anyway. :facepalm:

Edited by z3n
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2 hours ago, em1barns said:

The only indication about power I see is that they claim to be able to go from 0 to 30km/h in 3 seconds. Anyone willing to test on 84v Gotways?

Should be no prob - that is somewhere around ks16s (1) performance (https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/7855-anatomy-of-an-overlean/). One just gets very near (or at) the motor limit ?

With the actual gotways there is much more reserve, hopefully too with the Z...

Edit: (1) ups - this was with the 800W ks16b/c and not with the 1200W ks16s...

Edited by Chriull
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2 hours ago, Turbocharged said:

Power output is disappointing, acceleration is slow, braking is not that good too. This is an Off Road wheel by design, but it fail to climb a slope when a same rider can get up with easy on a Ninebot S2. 

:eff05cf9bc:, one of my wheels is an s2 (I got the 300$ sales bargain), and accelerating / braking /climbing with it already does not feel anywhere as safe as with an Inmotion v5. So torque must be quite low already on S2.

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I wonder if the low voltage limitation really put too much of a constraint on the designers/engineers to squeeze out the performance people are expecting.  Sometimes the managers will give out specifications that in reality just can't compete against others without those limits.  If Gotway/King Song/Etc were to put out a fat off-road wheel with 84V+ they likely would blow the Ninebot Z out of the water...

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9 hours ago, em1barns said:

:eff05cf9bc:, one of my wheels is an s2 (I got the 300$ sales bargain), and accelerating / braking /climbing with it already does not feel anywhere as safe as with an Inmotion v5. So torque must be quite low already on S2.

InMotion wheel has very hard/stable foot paddles, that provides a sense of security and quick response. S2 is a brilliant product for what it is designed for.

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12 minutes ago, Niaraeth said:

@z3nWell even though it says OPEN, it's actually a limited Open... It's there because they need people with experience as well as new-comers to test the product and give feed-back. (I'm being in the latter category).

So with that in mind, what I wrote is not a Review, but a REPORT, a guideline for the team to tweak the small things before shipping out.

And also, all reviews prior to our reports can't really be counted as reviews, right :)?

Okay... :blink:

Sorry, no offense... but I guess Ninebot has managed to make you guys the beta testers out there to pay with your own money just to be their lab rats:thumbup:

I don't know why I feel that way. But don't you?

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25 minutes ago, Niaraeth said:

About the Power, he said it's because of regulation, the noted numbers are low, but it seems the 1.2k-1.8k are the nominal, with some number over 2kw being peak.

He also said because of the size (volume) of the motor, even though the number is low, the actual Torque produced seems to be on par with Tesla.

If the torque is on par, then the power has to be on par, too.(1) There is no way around the laws of physics...

Edit: (1) at the same speed of course

Edited by Chriull
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Just now, z3n said:

Okay... :blink:

Sorry, no offense... but I guess Ninebot has managed to make you guys the beta testers out there to pay with your own money just to be their lab rats:thumbup:

I don't know why I feel that way. But don't you?

Yup, none taken, we are the Lab rats xD

It's the One Z after all, we get to experience it, participate in it's development, AND also get a 20% discount on the wheel after a full Hull/Mainboard change on the beta version.

It's the hype :P

I am glad that I got into the beta, because the dev team are REALLY thinking about the customers and are really nice, they even send me a new trolley(the research ver) for free after mine broke.

Anyway, if you have any tech questions just ask, I can get to the Lead Tech after all :)

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17 minutes ago, Chriull said:

If the torque is on par, then the power has to be on par, too.(1) There is no way around the laws of physics...

Edit: (1) at the same speed of course

Well he didn't gave me specific numbers, it's reverse deducted by the batteries and controllers by the motor's V, it's about 2~3kw?

Personally I really think it accelerates really good for a 25kg wheel.

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2 hours ago, Niaraeth said:

Well he didn't gave me specific numbers, it's reverse deducted by the batteries and controllers by the motor's V, it's about 2~3kw?

It's a real shame that not even the big companies have test rig for thourough testing and as side effect could provide real numbers...

2 hours ago, Niaraeth said:

Personally I really think it accelerates really good for a 25kg wheel.

For acceleration the wheels weight should be quite irrelevant - the whole system with the rider has to be accelerated. With around 100kg in total (for western riders) a difference of 5-10 kg is not really noticable.

Imho the selling point of the wheel is just the looks (wide tire) and the company name. I fear that performancewise there won't be a real difference to my ks 16s...

Could have been my next wheel - but presumably just paying a small fortune (here in europe) for the fat tire won't be enough.

Anyhow - i'll await the release reports and specs before taking a final decision...

... And until then maybe some fat tire wheel is announced from GW/KS/Inmotion... ?

 

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3 hours ago, Chriull said:

 

... And until then maybe some fat tire wheel is announced from GW/KS/Inmotion... ?

 

Well, the MSuperx has a 3" wide wheel.

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6 hours ago, Niaraeth said:

FINALLY!!! the noob mute has worn off!!!!

Now I can answer all the questions.

@US69 I just asked the Lead-designer of the One Z today, he's also the head of tech.

About the Power, he said it's because of regulation, the noted numbers are low, but it seems the 1.2k-1.8k are the nominal, with some number over 2kw being peak.

He also said because of the size (volume) of the motor, even though the number is low, the actual Torque produced seems to be on par with Tesla.

@sifou Sorry about that, can't do because we had to sign a disclosure contract that we can't dissemble the wheel at any time during testing :( (there are pics on tieba.baidu tho :))

Well because I got into the Beta, I got to know the head distributor of GW in Beijing. Nice, short guy. I got to experience about all the GW they had, including Tesla and a 2.4kwh Monster (which feels weight-wise about the same as the Z, but less agile and needs longer breaking distance).

But after all, it was only a short experience, but I felt that the new Hardware update really pushed the torque to the limit.

恺哥,谢谢捧场:)

About 5. and 6. The trolley and the case are not final, the trolley I have now is the research-version, and the final-version case is also still in production.

The Final version Main-board is ready tho, about 5 days ago.

@z3nWell even though it says OPEN, it's actually a limited Open... It's there because they need people with experience as well as new-comers to test the product and give feed-back. (I'm being in the latter category).

So with that in mind, what I wrote is not a Review, but a REPORT, a guideline for the team to tweak the small things before shipping out.

And also, all reviews prior to our reports can't really be counted as reviews, right :)?

 

 

7

Hi @Niaraeth What is the fact and your opinion about these items:

  1. It is only nimble at slow speed, the agility is really not that good above 10-12 mph, to me personally it is to a level that I feel unacceptable. Some testers report that with enough practice it would turn well. Well, I don’t think so, I don’t think it will ever be as nimble as a V10 or a Msuper 3 no matter how much practice you put into improve it.
  2. Power output is disappointing, acceleration is slow, braking is not that good too. This is an Off Road wheel by design, but it fail to climb a slope when a same rider can get up with easy on a Ninebot S2.
  3. The tire, it slips on painted lines on the road, slips on wet, and it is hard. You think a 18 inch fat tire will bring superb comfort? Well, no.. nowhere near the comfort of GW 18 or the new V10. But again it does perform great on gravel and grass.

Since you can talk to the lead designers, I have a few hypothesizes about the reasons: 

About the slow braking: During the braking,  the control board does not charge one of the two battery packs, see the video of the Taiwan tester. This will make dumping the energy into battery twice as hard. The bug comes from that the algorithm is for Z6 who has only one pack. 

Another solution for the slow braking and acceleration: Choose a lighter weight tire. The tire used now may be too stiff, some testers complained. Check those fat tire bikes, their tires are pretty soft and light.

The complaint of side slips on tilted roads and wet surface is a serious complaint. It must be addressed before releasing to the market. 

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