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Roo Williams

Gotway Tesla Issue - Diagnosis Requested

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Hey guys,

Noticed some friction vibration on my Tesla when leaning to one side and moving slowly. It’s the side I usually get on to mount. I’m thinking a bit of play in the axle, (699 miles on the ‘clock’) but any takers for a diagnosis before I crack it open this evening?

 

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The sound comes on when you load the pedal or is it there with no loading? What happens during free slow spinning ? Did you look up from under the wheel and see what’s going on when you put weight on the pedal and also when you turn it on?

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That friction is the tire? I'd say broken axle or bent/broken pedal bracket pushing the shell against the tire when loaded.

Or maybe just some twig stuck in the shell?

3 minutes ago, Cloud said:

The sound comes on when you load the pedal or is it there with no loading? What happens during free slow spinning ? Did you look up from under the wheel and see what’s going on when you put weight on the pedal and also when you turn it on?

Yep, all this.

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2 minutes ago, Cloud said:

The sound comes on when you load the pedal or is it there with no loading? What happens during free slow spinning ? Did you look up from under the wheel and see what’s going on when you put weight on the pedal and also when you turn it on?

Hey Cloud, it’s happening under load (though not much). Free spinning slowly seems fine. It’s fine when rolling upright slowly too. I think it happens when leaning the other side too though. Doesn’t seem to be any visible play in the axle when I try and move the wheel laterally. I cant see anything weird when I look up into the wheel from the underside. So far is a mystery.

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14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

That friction is the tire? I'd say broken axle or bent/broken pedal bracket pushing the shell against the tire when loaded.

Or maybe just some twig stuck in the shell?

Yep, all this.

I’ve gotta pop out for dinner but I’ll do some more diagnostics on my return. It doesn’t feel like a tyre rubbing issue or twig, and it doesn’t seem like it flexes enough to cross the gap to the shell, and it’s a deep vibration that feels very ‘core’, but I will take a better look and report back!

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4 minutes ago, Roo Williams said:

Hey Cloud, it’s happening under load (though not much). Free spinning slowly seems fine. It’s fine when rolling upright slowly too. I think it happens when leaning the other side too though. Doesn’t seem to be any visible play in the axle when I try and move the wheel laterally. I cant see anything weird when I look up into the wheel from the underside. So far is a mystery.

I myself didn’t open a Tesla but usually when this happens it means the pedal supports get loose and start rubbing on the side of motor cover.   This could be the loose axle but if any associated hardware . If you can see if the pedal support is loose or changes distance to the motor cover under load , you will most likely have to open it up and see. The design is simple and you will see right away what’s going on once you pop it open 

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I had a sound kind of like that on one of my ACMs, but not so loud. I would usually hear it when mounting the wheel (what you're somewhat simulating). I took the wheel apart and tightened the nuts, and the problem went away. Gotway's new pedal arm design, with the steel backing plates, prevents the shims from getting distorted and causing 'play' to develop in the pedals. But this design does nothing to preclude the nuts from loosening. To properly fix this you'll need to remove the side pedals and side panels, secure the pedal hanger in a vise or clamp it to a surface, and then tighten the nut with a 24mm socket wrench. Probably on both sides.

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Actually freewheeling with the power off, there does seem to be a speed at which resonance causes some intense vibration. Does this happen with anyone else’s machines?

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A bit more testing and it seems to be happening whilst it’s not moving, and usually whilst at an angle. Interesting.

 

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Also... what causes the ambient noise here? This has always been there, a subtle undulating grindy noise accompanied by the high pitched whine.

 

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Hard to say.

1st video: every time you turn the wheel, sounds like something rubs somewhere. Maybe just the tire valve stem? Maybe the pressure of the hand causes the rubbing?

2nd video: the grinding appearing at an angle sounds like something's rubbing again (metal on metal), but the strange sound at the beginning makes me think the motor itself may be damaged and doing it, or some strange board electronics error.

Guess you have to open it and see if you notice anything.

15 minutes ago, Roo Williams said:

Also... what causes the ambient noise here? This has always been there, a subtle undulating grindy noise accompanied by the high pitched whine.

Not sure what causes it, but it's normal. Turn on the light, it usually gets louder then.

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One more video that really highlights the issue. Not moving, seems to get worse when I put my foot on it and lean a little to the side. I am really puzzled.

 

The last time I messed about with stepper motors and heard a noise like this was when the pulsing sequence seemed to be out of whack, but that had nothing to do with angle of the motor. Not feeling like it would be a good idea to use the Tesla for my morning commute tomorrow.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Hard to say.

1st video: every time you turn the wheel, sounds like something rubs somewhere. Maybe just the tire valve stem? Maybe the pressure of the hand causes the rubbing?

2nd video: the grinding appearing at an angle sounds like something's rubbing again (metal on metal), but the strange sound at the beginning makes me think the motor itself may be damaged and doing it, or some strange board electronics error.

Guess you have to open it and see if you notice anything.

Not sure what causes it, but it's normal. Turn on the light, it usually gets louder then.

I popped the panels off and nothing jumped out at me. I haven’t taken a look at the control board yet tho.

The wheel has always sounded like that when being rolled freely, there’s always quite a bit of vibration, I just thought it was the permanent magnets in the motor causing vibration in the armature as they pass.

 

Edited by Roo Williams

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Last video makes it look more like a serious electronics failure (board, maybe even motor). I don't think you can see any board damage that isn't a fried mosfet. Maybe look if the cabling appears strange?

Sorry, I'm just guessing. No idea. Should be easy for someone who has seen this problem before, though, it's very specific:efeebb3acc:

Did you ask your seller too?

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The wheel consists of a battery, control board, and motor. I think we can eliminate the battery. IMO the control board is unlikely to be at fault based on the symptoms. So it's the motor assembly (motor, axle, etc.). If it's internal to the motor you're going to have to replace it which means opening the wheel and doing some major disassembly. Therefore you have nothing to lose but to tighten the axle nuts. Unless the nuts are finger loose (doubtful), you will not be able to detect the problem visually or by using your hands. You must clamp the pedal support so that it's immobile and then test and/or tighten the nut. I have a video on tightening the Monster nuts which shows how I clamp the pedal hanger so that I can properly tighten the nut. My ACM video shows the same thing but you shouldn't have to fully tear down the Tesla like I do for the ACM. It's amazing how these motors can be sensitive to loose axles.

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Posted (edited)

I’ll definitely give that a go. I don’t have the right sized socket so will need to track that down, and without watching your vid, maybe a wrench for the other side due to the motor cable? Unless that gets disconnected somehow. Either way, I’m down to swap out the part. It’s about time I got in there to understand exactly what I’m riding on.

That said, is it not strange that it happens even when the unit is not moving? Seems that a loose axle would not be an issue then.

I was hoping it would have been an issue that you would had seen before @Marty Backe so now I’m feeling a bit more worried than I was before your reply 😖

Edited by Roo Williams
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Posted (edited)

Maybe double check the bolts that attach your case to the pedal mounts.  It almost sounds like a vibration of the case against the pedal supports?  The pedal supports should be firmly attached to the axle, but if a crack is formed where the case mounts to them it might be enough to create some sounds like that I'm theorizing.  Did the wheel go tumbling quite a bit after your fall?  Does it make the same sound with the trolley partially up?

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Maybe double check the bolts that attach your case to the pedal mounts.  It almost sounds like a vibration of the case against the pedal supports?  The pedal supports should be firmly attached to the axle, but if a crack is formed where the case mounts to them it might be enough to create some sounds like that I'm theorizing.  Did the wheel go tumbling quite a bit after your fall?  Does it make the same sound with the trolley partially up?

@Hunka Hunka Burning Love has a valid point. More than once (different wheels) I've opened the shell to discover some of the machine screws that hold the shell to the pedal hangers loose. Gotway doesn't use any kind of thread-locker on these screws (six per hanger). This is obviously very easy to check.

Edited by Marty Backe
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Roo Williams said:

I’ll definitely give that a go. I don’t have the right sized socket so will need to track that down, and without watching your vid, maybe a wrench for the other side due to the motor cable? Unless that gets disconnected somehow. Either way, I’m down to swap out the part. It’s about time I got in there to understand exactly what I’m riding on.

That said, is it not strange that it happens even when the unit is not moving? Seems that a loose axle would not be an issue then.

I was hoping it would have been an issue that you would had seen before @Marty Backe so now I’m feeling a bit more worried than I was before your reply 😖

The wheel is moving forward, but you are standing on it.

I go back to how simple these wheels are. Battery, control board, and motor/axle/nuts. That's it. I would just about bet my paycheck that it's not the control board.

So check the 6-screws on each pedal hanger, than the tightness of the axle nuts. I think that's as far as you'll have to go. Let's hope.

You'll need a 24mm socket wrench. This is an oft-talked about subject here. Unfortunately you'll probably have to grind a slot in the socket to use it on the wire side of the motor. If you'll willing to fully disassemble the wheel (a lot more work) than you can use an open ended wrench to do the work. When you open the wheel you'll see why a wrench won't work with the shell attached to the motor.

Here's a video (at the 3-min mark) that shows the kind of socket that you'll need to do the work without having to disassemble the wheel. See the whole video for more. Thanks again to @Rehab1 for fabricating this for me. Unbeknownst at the time, this socket is now useful to me for both my ACM2's, Tesla, Monster, and upcoming MSuper X.

 

Edited by Marty Backe
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4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Thanks again to @Rehab1 for fabricating this for me.

Glad it is still working out. I can’t believe those massive Marty guns haven’t destroyed it by now.  ;)

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8 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Maybe double check the bolts that attach your case to the pedal mounts.  It almost sounds like a vibration of the case against the pedal supports?  The pedal supports should be firmly attached to the axle, but if a crack is formed where the case mounts to them it might be enough to create some sounds like that I'm theorizing.  Did the wheel go tumbling quite a bit after your fall?  Does it make the same sound with the trolley partially up?

Hey! Not a massive tumble, it skidded and slows pretty quickly without hitting anything so no damage other than some scuffs to outside edges.

I’ve tightenee every screw visible on the inside of the panels and there weren’t any that were loose. Axle bolts seem firm and this noise doesn’t seem to be the result of a vibration of a loose part, it’s more ‘core’ than that, you can feel it right through the Tesla, like something quite heavy or powerful is vibrating. Here’s another really badly filmed vid with my dog getting yippy in the background. The trolley doesn’t seem to vibrate at all and you can see I lift it up and down. The batteries are firmly in place - I had to duck tape one side to keep it in while the cover is off.

 

BA2635A9-7E71-4624-AA75-73720F38EDA5.jpeg

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7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

You'll need a 24mm socket wrench. This is an oft-talked about subject here. Unfortunately you'll probably have to grind a slot in the socket to use it on the wire side of the motor. If you'll willing to fully disassemble the wheel (a lot more work) than you can use an open ended wrench to do the work. When you open the wheel you'll see why a wrench won't work with the shell attached to the motor.

 

All good! I don’t have a grinder but I have a drill press and vise so I can work my way through creating a slot and finish with a file. I’ll be buying the socket specifically for this so all good.

That said, I think the Tesla bolts aren’t too submerged within the shell and you could probably manage it with a wrench (at an angle). But may as well do it properly :)

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16 minutes ago, Roo Williams said:

Axle bolts seem firm

This means nothing...

Thy typical "loose wheel nut" symptoms start by a Little bit gnarcing on the plastic, when you accelerate or brake....This means the nut is just a tiny tiny bit loose, so that the pedal arm scratches a bit more against the plastic. In this Stadium you don't find the nut to be "really loose". 

Only later, when the nut gets real loose (and that on both sides) you will get a weaker Feeling in the pedals.

So i would clamp down the wheel....and give a good force to the wheel nut with the correct socket.

On all my GW's (4) earlier or later the wheel nut has to be tighten again.

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