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Showing most liked content on 06/01/2020 in all areas

  1. 6 likes
    Offroad with my 5 year old daughter on her V5F. 🥰 Our first EUC weekend since February/march after she broke her elbow on a skiing crash. It's amazing how fast kids lern and despite a long break, pick up where they left off.
  2. 6 likes
    The battery recall as of right now is only for EWheels customers, not Gotway or other distributors AFAIK. Again, this is testament to @Jason McNeil prioritization of customer safety over profits. So far I am the only one who experienced this problem, so it could very well be the case that I was the only one unlucky enough to end up with a lemon. But the consequence was serious enough for Jason to work with Gotway on the recall. Of course as I mentioned before in a previous post, I would like to see Gotway provide us with information about the panasonic batteries and what were the specific problems they ran into that made them switch to LG M50Ts.
  3. 5 likes
    17 of us rode all over Southern California this past Sunday. 75+ miles.
  4. 5 likes
    No matter what the actual cause(s) for the fire was, it’s obvious that it doesn’t always cause the fire. Otherwise we’d have read about 500 fires. The incident was a rare outlier, not a sure outcome from anything. We will probably never know the actual cause, but this thread has brought up the most probable causes. This is currently a huge issue. It should be clearly printed in the front page of the user manual. In bold. But the way the community has been able to gather this information has required reading about hundreds of descriptions on EUC battery issues of all wear levels, learning about li-ion batteries in general, dissecting several packs and examining their BMS behavior from photos (which by itself nearly requires an EE degree), etc. I see all this as a huge accomplishment! Now it’s time to feed the information and the graveness of distributing it to the retailers and manufacturers. Voltage measuring devices are generally not all that precise in the price range of the components being used in an EUC. Or even in a $100 multimeter. Hopefully the BMS does a better job though, since the upper limit is a hard one. But surely there are outliers in the BMSs as well. I believe you are correct. But we don’t know how much variation there was in the cell group voltages from the start, or if the control board even had an issue that ended up shorting the MOSFETs and the battery. What we do know is that if the cell groups were badly balanced from the start, rigorous balance charging could have prevented the whole episode. And that is why every EUC customer must be informed about correct battery handling guidelines. The issue could be just that the Panasonic cells had more than the usual variation in cell capacity. Or the cell provider turned out to be sourcing used cells. Or they got a better deal. Or even something completely unrelated. Either way, giving in to Jason’s replacement claim makes all the sense no matter what the actual cause was, and whether they even know the cause themselves or not.
  5. 3 likes
    Pyöräuutisia: Puolisolle tilattu V10F. Tulossa siis kolme uutta pyörää. Tämä V10f on tarkoitettu meidän pitkille reissuille kesän ajaksi, koska uudet jousitetut mallit tulevat todennäköisesti vasta kesän lopulla. Nyt olisi siis 1200 km ajettu hyväkuntoinen V8 myynnissä. Alle vuoden vanha ja vain vähän pintanaarmua. Asennettuna V10 isommat pedaalit. Hintapyynti 600€ ja saatavilla viikon päästä. Kesän mittaan tulossa myös 18XL myyntiin (V11 saavuttua) ja tälle olikin jo alustavaa varailua. Sitten S18 saapuessa katsotaan kumpi miellyttää puoliso enemmän ja myyntiin tulee joko pari kertaa testattu S18 tai pari kuukautta ajettu V10f.
  6. 3 likes
    Aloitin eilen uuden projektin ja sain sen tänään valmiiksi... tein ehkä vähän liian isot mutta mukavuus on aivan mahtava! Pitää vaan saada 2-3mm pidemmät ruuvit
  7. 3 likes
    @B08AH says he likes lighter wheels that are easier for him to manage. The only two options with suspension are both heavy (V11 far too heavy) and he is left without suitable choice, so he tells us about the things he would change (weight) to make the wheel suitable for his personal needs. It sounds like criticism, but its really just him saying that this wheel is too large and heavy for his needs and he wished that it was smaller and lighter as then he would likely buy it. We can all get a little touchy over criticism as it seems as if we are being personally criticised on our choices. Hopefully we will see some compact smaller and lighter wheels with suspension come to market. There is definitely a place for larger, heavier wheels as well as for smaller, lighter ones depending on your needs.
  8. 3 likes
    Might be smart to start shying away from these third party mods as a community. Fires like this are what got "hoverboards" banned in most places. EUCs are always one major news story away from the same fate.
  9. 3 likes
    9ft selfie stick view, not my best video, plus my mic had come loose, I was going to overlay with music but it didn't sound to bad ☹️
  10. 3 likes
    The following video is Not a Nikola, but a 100v Monster V3 with 3rd party battery upgrade which may well have been suspect 21700 cells! Posting this here to also help make people aware of the increasing fire risk with some of these large, "Seller" upgraded battery packs!!! "This is why i won’t do third party battery upgrades. another monster with added battery packs from some third party deal. just spontaneous combustion as rider was riding" Note: The above text is quoted from the actual Facebook post. Note: Recent comments on the Facebook post have since stated this Monster was a 3108wh 21700 from Ali seller Loomo. Below is another short clip that shows the wheel ignite with the rider still onboard, just before he got dumped in the road! Scary, Scary scenes!!!
  11. 3 likes
    Found these images of the veteran from Facebook. Thought I'll share it here. Original link below: https://m.facebook.com/groups/666662156765084?view=permalink&id=2978379505593326&sfnsn=mo That lcd display is interesting....
  12. 3 likes
    Photos from the rail trail Glacial Boulder in marsh Walker in the distance Northern Blue flag (Iris) along the trail
  13. 3 likes
    The safest is, wait a little save some more money and buy a wheel from a good dealer where you have good service. Just my two cents.
  14. 3 likes
    Summary: Always Balance Charge EUC Batteries It is true, charging to 4.0/4.1V maximum doubles the cell life. Discharging to 3.30/3.35V minimum doubles the cell life. (exact voltage depends on the cell chemistry) The problem is we cannot currently measure cell voltage, only pack voltage. So we assume 4.0V = 80% capacity & 3.3V = 30% capacity for the pack applies to each cell, but it does not. As @Archee Jan Bloch correctly points out, when the battery, which is the whole pack of cells, reaches "low voltage," it is for all cells in series. We do not usually know what the voltage of each cell is. If one cell is weak the remaining cells in parallel will support it. If the battery is balance charged, more time will be spent recharging the weak cell group to bring it up to the level of the rest of the cells. The one cell will always be weak, but balancing brings things back into balance. @Archee Jan Bloch continues saying that if the battery is charged but not balanced, the weak cell/cell group will not be fully charged, and during the next use be under more stress to perform. The weak cell(s) will get hotter, the internal resistance will go up, and the weak cell(s) will have to work even harder to supply energy, depleting the weak cell(s) even further. From observation he is correct: when I discharge a balanced pack from 4.20V average to 3.00V average, the weak cell has usually started out at rest at 4.19V, maybe 4.18V. It has to work harder than the cells at 4.20V. And honestly, this is most of the cells in the battery--only a few cells will be at 4.20V. At the end of the ride, the strong cells are at 3.10V, but the rest at 3.0V with some at 3.29V & 3.28V. When I recharge without balancing, the strong cells are at 4.01V, the rest at 4.00V, 3.99V, 3.88V, and usually one or two stragglers at 3.97V. These stragglers are of concern--a normal balance charge with a smart BMS would put them at 3.99V, but they are at 3.97V. On the next use, the voltage spreads out: 3.10V, 3.0V, 2.99V, 2.98V, 2.97V, 2.96V, 2.95V. Here's where it gets interesting: recharging the second time, some cells will be at 4.1V, but the low cells of interest-the stragglers-will be at 3.93 & 3.92V. If I take the unit out for a third ride the voltage will be spread out from 3.2V down to 2.85 & 2.82V. So by not balance-charging for two charges, damage is being done to 1 or 2 cells. This problem does not develop so fast with cells in parallel, and when discharging to 3.30V=30% instead of 3.00V=0%, but over 10 charges it can still happen. The cells that reached 2.82V will always be damaged, so if I balance charge and then keep charging to 80%, those cells or cell groups in parallel are going to continue to degrade and die. As @Archee Jan Bloch points out, once a cell group is dead, more strain is put on the rest of the battery both during use and during charge. Because there are so many cells we do not usually notice unless checking voltage as @Chriull alludes to. This is where the real problem comes in as @Archee Jan Bloch points out, because when the second cell group dies the remaining cells (18S in a 20S pack, or 22S in a 24S pack) get the full charger voltage, and the bleed-off circuits cannot keep up with the power supplied by the charger, especially a fast-charger! Some cells are at 0V, some cells are 4.35V, and the BMS circuitry is ready to burn up from dissipating so much energy--the charger is supplying: 4V x 20V/cell (normally) = 80V 80V over 18cells (2 dead) = 4.44V/cell The next balance charge at 100% voltage is: 84V over 18cells (2 dead) = 4.66V/cell! If you charge 18 cells to 4.66V/cell, then take it out and start off from a dead stop, which is very high amp draw.... The wheel has all these overcharged cells that built up spikey dendrites in them, making them effectively "little bombs." (perhaps a bit dramatic, but you should see an Remote Control (R/C) race car, heli, or plane go up in flames at 80+ MPH! THAT's dramatic!) This is why the racers that cheat by overcharging to 4.35V/cell or 4.38V/cell or heaven forbid 4.40V/cell dispose of their batteries after 2 races. Charging to 4.5V/cell would certainly be taking risks for a LiPo fire. The 4.66 volts per cell an EUC charger would put on a battery is crazy. It is for these reasons R/C people strongly warn about charging in parallel, where as EUC people do that every charge. (R/C says do not charge battery packs in parallel so you know the health of every single cell and can minimize the risk of catastrophic failure.) R/C does not use a BMS, but rather a smart charger and known discharge cycle--the smart charger is the key, which is why a Smart BMS is important in EUC use. Not knowing individual cell/cell group voltages is why charging EUC batteries to 100% every time to balance the cells is so important, and will extend the life of the battery for EUCs. If you had a smart charger like in R/C that knew the state of charge of every cell and balanced the cells to 4.00V/cell, then it would be okay to charge to 80%. Not knowing individual cell/cell group voltages is why EUC batteries should not be run below 3.3V/cell for safe use. It keeps the cells that have lower voltages from discharging too low, heating up too much, and aging faster than necessary. (I note the Segway/Ninebot miniPROs that I own have Smart Battery Management Systems that are always active and charges the batteries to 80%=4.00V/cell. If I charge to 100% full the BMS has charged and balanced the cells to 4.00V/cell=80%. Since the Smart BMS is always active, even when the unit is off, the batteries should not become unsafe. I should not be able to use the board so that any cell is discharged below 2.87V (and this is what happens as far as I can tell). I do not know about their EUCs.)
  15. 3 likes
    18XL no doubt.. for reliability, long range comfort, compactness (it is way more compact than the 16X... they are the exact same height yet the 16X is fatter even though it has a 16" tire) trolley handle is perfection, range is the best there is by a long shot in relative terms.. and if you ask me the larger tire diameter is better for all weather rather than a fatter tire... not to mention, you wont need to do anything to weatherproof it yourself, compared to the weatherproofing and plethora of other problems that have plagued a lot of 16Xs.. the 18XL has high speed stability but at slow speeds it is every bit as maneuverable as a 16" wheel because it is so slim and perfectly balanced.. the other wheel i might suggest would be the nikola, however it is less comfortable for long distances, the pedals are more angled and slightly smaller and the shell is very fat nowhere near as comfortable, plus if you need to lift it a lot the handle sucks ass, though its scorpion trolley is not bad.. its not as maneuverable at speeds above 30, the range is nowhere near as good, and its not as comfortable over time... but other than that it would be the top contender for second choice if you ask me, the reason i say it over the 16X is because the 16X top speed is not safe, you could have board issues, weatherproofing sucks big time.. imo the 18XL is the clear winner
  16. 3 likes
    I can't speak to how the 16X would work in the winter, we don't have one of those up here yet. On the 18XL side, it works fine in heavy duty winter conditions -- there are actually two hard-core winter riders on 18XL here now, both using the stock summer tire. I switch to the ACM2 with knobby tire on snow days, but the other guy doesn't. The only problem we both have is turning on super slippery ice, but that's going to be a problem no matter what wheel you have. My view is that a wide tire is good for ice, a narrow and/or knobby tire is good for snow. I believe a wide, smooth tire might give you problems on snowy days, but I can't say that I have verified that with personal experience.
  17. 2 likes
    Note: The model that caught fire was the first batch of Nikola 100V 1800WH Panasonic NCR21700A. I have never crashed my Nikola nor have I mistreated it in any way. Over the span of 5 months, I've only used it to commute to and from work (~7.5 miles each way). I did have a fast charger from ewheels (the Nikola did not come with a charger), but I have never charged it with > 3A or to 100% (used the 90% setting on the fast charger). Edit: I've charged it to 100% once or twice in the beginning while I was configuring the charger. Shortly after, I read that charging to 100% is not recommended in order to preserve battery life which is when I decided to switch to 90%. All charges besides the initial first couple of charges were done via the 90% setting. AMP-wise I have always only used 3A. Below is official communication from EWheels. Jason asked me to withhold posting on the forum until he had time to communicate with Gotway and develop a plan of action. Many people in the EUC community praise EWheels for genuinely caring about the his customers and the community. I am glad I purchased my wheel through Ewheels and the communication from the email (below) was the evidence I needed that I bought from a good distributor. One minor correction I want to make to the official email is that it didn't catch on fire immediately after turning on. I walked it to a parking lot near my place (so it was already on). When I got on it, it immediately shutoff and threw me off the wheel. It was only then after mysteriously powering off did the wheel go into thermal runaway and the wheel caught on fire. Anyways, below is the official communication. I am posting to raise awareness for those that might not have purchased through a distributor. Once again my model was the PANASONIC NCR21700A cells.
  18. 2 likes
    Hi, I want to switch to an EUC from using my bike for everyday commute. Like others, I have spent several weeks researching these things (and prior to that I didn't even know these things existed). What appeals to me over bikes and e-scooters is the compact size and added fun factor. But there are a few things that scare me from buying one right now. It seems like the current options are either buying an outdated wheel or a 60lbs one. I don't need the 60 mile range, off-roading or being able to climb 40-degree hills, I need something I can carry up 3 flights of stairs. I don't need something that replaces public transit, I need something that enhances it. But that doesn't seem to be where the market is headed. I understand that the companies are currently catering to early adopters willing to pay a premium for high performance, but why are there so few mid-market options (seems like V8F is the only one)? AFAIK, part of the reason for increased power + battery is to provide enough safety buffer due to the problem of cutouts, which in turn adds more weight, but isn't that a fundamentally flawed approach? What we need is to have enough juice to provide a short (2-3 second) burst of power, not to use the source of continuous power for the same purpose. We have plenty of examples of this both in nature and other tech (twitch muscles used for punching vs slow muscles used for lifting, NO2 in street-racing providing a short burst of speed, a pneumatic break). Why can't similar technology be adopted in EUCs? Why can't we store a higher-voltage charge needed for that burst in a temporary high-power capacitor (charged by the battery while riding) instead of relying on battery's own remaining power for it?
  19. 2 likes
    Vähän samaa huolta mulla ku yllä olevassa kommentissa. Näyttää olevan ehkä liiankin isot. Varovasti alussa mutkiin, ettei etureuna osu katuun. Ja muista, että saat noilla paljon enemmän vääntöä pienelle moottorille.
  20. 2 likes
    I have a V8 and a KS16x.. I still ride and am happy with my V8. Especially after getting the 16x (which i love).. I get on the V8 and it is a very fun wheel to ride..
  21. 2 likes
    I think too many people focus on the suspension. Maybe the reason Kuji include that part is just to demo the cut-off button, and why all wheels should have it. I personally still prefer the dedicate cut-off button from Inmotion, the most reliable and no need to maintain. Compare to Kingsong (need to focus and wait for the beep to know if the cut-off active) or Gotway (have to reach for the button, strange hand position, not ideal of left-hand people) solutions.
  22. 2 likes
    I've been thinking the same thing. Kind of looks like you can do things via the display (which actually is nice, not having to depend on a crappy Chinese app). Or maybe there's only one mode: Hard Core with no safety features enabled
  23. 2 likes
    I think it was me! I miss my bus at nummela and need to wait 2hrs for the next bus so i have no choice i need to use my euc to ride to work in helsinki.
  24. 2 likes
    I was talking about this just the other day. Since the suspension wheels are seemingly having a great number of preorders, the message is sent: this is what we want. As long as the sales match in reasonable numbers, we will see large 16” wheels with suspension in two years at the latest. That’s my prognosis. We all do, consciously or not. Point is, why show that specific clip at all? He must have raw footage many times the length of the review itself, plenty of clips to choose from. Or just skip the few seconds. If I was a jumper and I’d review a wheel without a traditional spot for my signature pads, that’s exactly what I would do. If I were reviewing a wheel as myself and wanted to keep the length in 15 minutes, why on earth would I show a clip like that??
  25. 2 likes
    Guys, Have we seen this?
  26. 2 likes
    Now I think you total post above is spot on. But this part in particular is something I think you need to consider as a buyer. If you take speed as an example, would you be able to buy a great product despite it isn't the fastest in the market? Would you be having benefit of a suspension system, vs another system that could be "better" or vs not having suspension at all? If you want a lighter wheel what are you prepared to give up to make this happen? So when you then start to look at this and compare the S18 vs V11 I simply don't see it as they are competing for same target group at all, despite both have suspension. After all you could just as well discuss trolley handle (yes some wheel don't have these at all). Now with that in mind I fully agree that S18 or V11 have their target group, and imo they are different, but that is still not the same that you must buy this as a customer. But I do like that IM are still looking into things that can expand the interest of their wheel such as making jump pads, or a seat or side lighting option or adding BT speakers (take from the Q&A list). I really have not see KS making same effort, but I am not that close to KS as I have come to be after joining IMs WhatsApp channel and how they chose to engage though here. So a side note to the above. I just hope that my huge expectations to the V11 is solved at 75% as that is more than any other wheel I previous owned. I have been happy with my KS18L until service issues me and came again. Same thing with my KS16X. It was fun but it isn't working if you have to service it and ship it away as I don't have diagnostics skills or knowledge of what is going on inside the wheel and have service support to assist me. The experience with my IM wheels are a bit easier to handle. And yes I had to service those too. But I still think a simpler suspension system is a benefit to me (other customer is like to have their skills and opinions that can be very different form mine). Button line I am a rider, not a mechanic. I guess time will tell how well I think this worked out.
  27. 2 likes
    Yeah... I’m sure he does that with all wheels that don’t have jump pads. I would, especially if I wanted to get my point across to the manufacturer. Or to underline the lack of the pads to viewers. One thing to realize is that for every polished EUC video the author spends hours deciding what one wants to show and in which light. That lifting thing is a very calculated thing to show, knowing the background. Your comment is based on the expectation that every buyer would succeed in choosing the wheel that is best for them. “Buy the biggest battery EUC you can afford” is an example of a comment that finds it’s way to pretty much every “Which wheel to buy” thread. Before it did, many of us made exactly that mistake, and were soon longing for a bigger wheel with a bigger battery, and ready to give up on the requirement of a light wheel. I’m sure most V8’s are bought as the first wheel, after which they soon realize how much more fun the riding is than they thought, how much farther they end up riding than they thought, and how much faster they ride than they ever thought they would. The V11 is absolutely not designed as a first wheel. It’s also not a wheel for short and light people. Still not as preventive as such as the Nikola though, I’d imagine. Yet I haven’t really heard the Nikola being dismissed because of its weight or even the wider top section over the competition. Again comments I haven’t heard before, even for the Monster. Makes me think it could be an excuse for a different reason altogether. Which is of course all fine if there is one. For example you don’t like the looks (or couldn’t live with the idea of having possibly only the second best suspension system) but don’t realize why, so you try to find other reasons why you wouldn’t like it or want it. The V11 isn’t for everybody, nor does it try to be.
  28. 2 likes
    At the end of the last video I watched, Youtube suggested the one below. Would any of you dare ride down any of these paths on your wheel? ç Possible venue for the next LA EUC Games?
  29. 2 likes
    Teach her to ride. My GF is crying because how her own V11 or S18 will hurt her purse.
  30. 2 likes
    Anyone have any updates on when Gotway is scheduled to release their newest EUC with suspension? The latest rumors I heard were mid-may ... but that has come and gone and no word. Before I pull the trigger on the V11, I'm waiting to see what Gotway has to offer.
  31. 2 likes
    The LESS gotway says about this, the less likely they will be forced to accept fault. Im not saying it is or isnt their fault, but dont hold your breathe waiting on an explanation. An explanation can be construed as accepting fault, or even recognizing the problem. IN lawyer speak, neither of those two things are a benefit to the bottom $$ of the company. I do feel much assurance knowing that I have the luxury of being within Jason's selling territory. I do hope things like this are remedied at minimal end expense to him for sure!
  32. 2 likes
    Thanks for all the info. Next time I won't worry when I ride.
  33. 2 likes
    If it's legit, it must be a one-battery-pack 84V Nikola (or a really crazy good price for some other reason). If it's not legit, well then it isn't. Paypal is a good idea because you can dispute if there is a problem, and then Paypal decides who is right. If you never got a package, that should be an easy win for you. Just ask the seller questions without saying much yourself, and see how he reacts. Then you can decide if to trust him. All questions you have should be easy answers for a honest seller, and he should be able to reassure you about everything and that he is legitimate.
  34. 2 likes
    yes... it is a gamble with the 16X... 18XL is a tad more expensive (depending where you are... in my country you can find the 2000W model on sale everywhere) you should try if you can to find the 2000W model to save some money.. it has only very slightly less torque, the older motor can be made silent and more aggressive by just updating the FW but the 18XL has a long time proven track record of reliability and its comfort is unmatched imo
  35. 2 likes
    Likely: Gotway Nikola 84V with 800Wh or 650Wh battery. From the voltage, it is a 84V Gotway Nikola (75V is too low even for empty battery for a 100V wheel, but for a 84V wheel it is simply about 60% battery). Credit to @travsformation for that detective work. It is not a 100V Nikola, at that voltage it wouldn't even switch on. So no concerns about any battery issues. From the price, this is likely a Nikola with one battery pack instead of two. 800Wh or 650Wh (double that would be the typical 1600Wh or 1300Wh). These are legit sold, it's literally just a normal 84V Nikola with one pack instead of two, sold for a lower price. Maybe $1000+ (very rough uneducated guess) on Ali, so 600 might be a real normal price for a used one. It's still cheap, and maybe it is indeed a scam. Maybe not. The seller should be able to answer all your questions and give you all the details. Whether and how he answers them is how you decide if he is legit and trustworthy.
  36. 2 likes
    Hi, Where is this and who is selling? 600 euro is very cheap for a 2000 euro wheel. Nobody would sell it for that cheap whether it is a Nikola or Nikola plus. It looks like a Nikola+. If that is the case then 75V means the battery is way below zero. 100 volt wheels use 24S. The usable V range for Gotway is 4.2 to 3.3. 24*4.2V = 100.8 (100% charge) 24*3.3V = 79.2 (0% charge) 75.6/24 = 3.15V (around 16% charge) Not dead... but low. Can he charge it? Can you ride it? Do a lift test?
  37. 2 likes
    One of the things the s18 has going for it that I think is kind of cool is the ability to swap out the shock for a fox shock if you're an enthusiast of some sort(supposedly). Since in motion has a proprietary shock that can't really be swapped out, it would be cool or interesting to see inmotion partner with Fox on making a more refined version of their suspension system with maybe a multi-chamber damping system or something. Perhaps make it better and shave some weight off ??? You could have the more economical model aimed at people who don't care and just want a little bit of suspension and then a enthusiast model made in partnership with Fox aimed at people who want something even more. kind of like you have different trim levels of the same mountain bike frame but with different suspension kits. Fox has a lot of experience and I wouldn't be surprised if they could help in motion improve on their design without going the same route as King song. Probably unlikely but that would be on my wish list for a second generation model of inmotion suspension wheels. On a side note, while all the s18 versus v11 stuff is fun, obviously waiting for the second generation will probably get you something better and more refined, but whether you get the s18 or the v11 I dont think you can go wrong as long as you know what you're getting and as long as the wheels work safely. I think it just comes down to if you have the money to burn and can afford it then either wheel will give you an interesting fun experience with their own unique approaches. And if you don't have the money to burn, continue to enjoy your existing wheel which is probably great if it's anything made recently, my ACM hasn't stopped being a great wheel just because suspension wheels are out and I'll continue to enjoy it until I have the money to burn or it breaks(hopefully not with me on it)
  38. 2 likes
    The 1800Wh MSX uses/used Sanyo 21700 cells according the the Gotway website. Are these the same as the "Panasonic" cells we are speaking of here? Because the 18650s are billed as "Sanyo/Panasonic". Just wondering. They switched to LG M50Ts, but probably all 21700s before would be the "Panasonic" ones then? Or not? Because no 1800 MSX has shown any problems (or any of the older "Panasonic" 1800Wh Nikolas). So why do they suspect the battery cells right from the start, after one incident?
  39. 2 likes
    So your theory basically disqualifies EVERY wheel on the market that has a battery over 13000wh lol yet you've used it to solely bash the v11 lol.. We get it, the v11 isn't your cup of tea and that's fine but come on dude this is just pathetic.
  40. 2 likes
    Its good to be excited for new technology. The S18 has the best suspension, but who cares? ... just like we don't all drive the same car that has the best suspension, it all comes down to the overall balance in qualities that we want and like. For me, I like the V11 as its more suited to commuting than S18 and the bigger battery and great lights matter more to me than whether or not the suspension is the best. If I spent most of my time off-road on trails, or doing tricks, then S18 would be my preference. Better still, just have both. As things stand, I won't be having either at the moment as I don't have enough riding experience yet and I won't be buying another wheel until the UK updates its antiquated laws.
  41. 2 likes
    The V11 don't have jump pads (yet, Inmotion has listen and looking into a solution). Kuji has been part of KS S18 design (roumered, I don't know for sure) and why the KS S18 have foot graping area near pedals. So jumping isn't really anything to do with suspenstion. The ability to grab a wheel to force it to do something is going to make a differance going up of curbs ans stairs. Now from my personal point, I know that I have misjudged this before (lastly on my KS16X) so I would rather go to the curb and lift it. I guess I am just not hardcore enough. I do know even if a wheel can do things I still need to control and apply it, and that ability I don't have like Kuji. I can't do the things he does. One any wheel. I ride for very different reasons than he does.
  42. 2 likes
    If someone reacts so extremely with a shock absorber comparison between V11 and S18 because someone subjectively falls in favour of the S18 and does not understand a simple example (16 by 2.1 vs.16x3) because of all the emotions, that makes any other conjecture by them extremely suspect. Calm down, nobody will keep you away from buying a V11! This eternal fight V11 vs S18 is really cruel.
  43. 2 likes
    It is fine if you don't want to buy the V11. It just means someone else gets to enjoy it. I am pretty sure the V11 will appeal to others. We all have thing we would like to have in a new wheel and this changes as your ride habit adapt to what is possible to do. Now the biggest invitation so far the past years is suspension. It solves or helps something's but it is not that it is a mush for all. And yes there are room for improvement too. Now you might not be excited about this but I sure am and you can not control that at all. Now you can argue system wise which is better. But it is has to do with impact on design too. Some like V11 some like S18 and don't like any. Question how this will shift once you ride a wheel and compare it. But the way I use my current wheels, the V11 is 99% spot on to what I have been missing and yet not giving up too much to get that. The S18 doesn't even come close to that at all. Not on paper and not on what they have said they focused on. If that is why I come across "as overly positive"# so be it. I am pretty stoked to be in the queue to get a V11. And I expect to be very happy about it. There will be a new thing to learn and that is to how suspension reacts to avoid pedel striking ground. But since I in general don't ride with my head up my a...doing stupid stuff I think it will be all right. Now Kuji didn't go too much into which he liked the most but his ride style and how he pushes it he needs padding to do this. IM are looking into solutions. But I general don't grab my wheel and don't do really super hard core non-road rides either. But one thing that has burned into my attention is "it (V11) rides very predictable". I would if he had the KS16X S18 or V10f in mind for that comment.
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    I know. That's why i asked you, if you'd like to add adfitional information missing/correct rumours or false information(1) But back to the topic - i fear that in this case there is a high chance that it has nothing to do with the batteries. Most likely low speed overburden killing the mosfets/causing molten insulations snd by this shorted wires (to the motor). Maybe a BMS/contact fault heating up the batteries. Or any other QC issue causing heatup/shorting. This in combination with the missing short circuit protection led to a thermal runaway. Could be any other problem with bad cells from the beginning or whatnot, but above cases would be my first guess. Definitely the described charging behaviour of @davinche would be my very last guess. Edit: i started this topic in the hope that it evolves into some kind of knowledge pool for the community sometimes...
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    Coincidence that shortly after watching Kujis video on the V11, I put in a preorder for it through ewheels? Then today inmotion releases a Q&A video about the V11 and the first thing they talk about is battery technology / BMS?
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    My understanding from the members here is all* major EUC manufacturers use top-balancing circuits. This is smart, as it is cheaper, smaller, lighter, and allows the most power into the cells the fastest. *The exception may be Ninebot/Segway, though I don't know. Both miniPROs I have use active balancing circuits that are always running and monitor each cell, even when the batteries are removed from the units and just sitting around. Because of per-cell monitoring and reporting, it is easy to see how fast a cell can start going out of balance and by how much. The miniPRO charges to 4.00V (80%) and throttles at 30%, encouraging the owner to use only 50% of the batteries total capacity, and by doing so extending battery life from 500 charges to 2000 charges (assuming battery life means the cells can hold only 80% of their rated capacity). Because it appears in general EUCs do not monitor individual cells, nor cell groups during discharge, best practice seems to be (and I belive @Chriull mentioned this in the battery charging threads): Let the battery cool before charging (reduces risk, extends life). Do not charge until going riding. (The further the charge is above 50% = 3.85V the more the batteries wear out, even during periods of non-use). Charge fully (100% = 4.20V, engages the balance circuits), Check the voltage at full charge (there are devices made to do so if the EUC app doesn't report voltage). Voltage should be 100% of rated voltage = 4.20V x # cells in series. (4.2V x 20 = 84.0V, 4.2V x 24 = 100.8V). If the voltage starts to fall below normal, there's a problem developing--get the problem fixed immediately. Plan your ride so the battery is not discharged below 30% = ~3.30V. (Gotway's 0% remaining is 3.3V, so riders are forced to observe this. King Song 0% is 3.0V, so the rider can self-manage their usage.) Wheels need a certain amount of power to move you. Power is: Voltage (volts) x Current (amps) = Power (watts) so as voltage drops current goes up, because the amount of power needed to do something doesn't change. Current causes heat, heat cooks the enamal on motor windings, MOFSETs, and battery cells, therefore the less heat that is generated the longer things last, meaning the more voltage a battery has the fewer amps that are needed to do the same amount of work, and the cooler things are. This is part of why using the last 30% of battery capacity is so hard on everything: not as much voltage and more current. This is also why speed is limited as battery capacity drops. Think of it this way: Voltage is like strength. Current is like the amount of motion. If you have three hours to move a large pile of gravel from the road where it was dropped off to the back of your yard, it is better to take a wheelbarrow full of gravel and use your strength, than it is to use a child's sand pail and run back and forth very fast--you will soon be hot and exhausted. You will need more time to recover. If your wife does not let you sleep (recharge) fully, and if you get a new load of gravel every day for a month, by the end of the month you may be worn out and not able to continue. However, if you used the wheelbarrow each day (strength) and were allowed to sleep (recharge) fully, you would be much healthier--not like new, but much better (maybe you would not like your wife for making such a large project, but you would still love her and continue on with her). : Your battery will work better and last longer if you charge it fully, and do not exhaust it completely. Several members have said it is important for the owner to be able to monitor cell voltage. I think it is not so important IF you follow the usage guidelines above and expect to buy a new wheel every two years or so, or at least replace the batteries when they start to age (which is dependant on how they are used, the quality of the cells, and time). That is an IF. As wheels are made with more batteries in parallel and owners hope to use them for more than two years (or sell them to someone who will), it does become more important to monitor the cells/cell groups more closely. @Chriull and @RagingGrandpa, @meepmeepmayer and others have very smartly detailed in many posts why Smart BMS are [becoming] important (their posts are very informative and well-thought). tldr: Charge the battery 100% using the charger that came with the wheel and you'll be fine. When the wheel starts to wear out and/or the green "100% charge complete" light no longer illuminates, buy a new wheel.
  47. 2 likes
    +1! Dead cells can also while beeing burdened during riding be forced to change polarity - as they do not supply current anymore, they are charged by the others the wrong way around. Another way to catch fire is just thermal runaway by beeing overburdened (shorted) My first thought from this description would have been that the mosfets fryed/motor wires shorted and overloaded the batteries so they started to burn after 20 secs?! Afaik GW BMS have _no_ overcurrent/short circuit protection! So if anything happens (QC issues!) they can blow up! Don't know if this was changed with recent models? @davinche - were there still enough remains so they could do some forensics? Gives a really bad feeling to hear from such incitents - great nothing happened to you! It's time that all manufacturers use smart BMS with single cell (group) monitoring and cell temperature monitoring! (...without draining the batteries... ) ... and that GW uses short circuit protection again, if they not already do...
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    Truth is we don't know if our balancing boards work the way the should or not. One of my Inmotion V8 doesn't balance, and there's no way to tell. If I had ridden it normally I would maybe have had a fire. If you have a sudden drop in range, or can't charge to 100%. These are warning signs. The fires, I think, come after repeatedly crossing over the threshold or trying to revive dead cells by fully charging a pack with dead cells in it.
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    Backstory: It was Sunday (memorial day long weekend). My friend has been EUC-curious for a while and wanted to learn, so we planned the learning/teaching session on Sunday. I had a V8 (which he was going to learn on) and I had my Nikola. A mutual friend of ours also tagged along because she wanted to document the learning process. My friends arrived at my place at ~2:00pm. There is an empty parking lot nearby about 10minutes (walking distance) away. We turned on the wheels and walked to the parking lot. Once at the parking lot, I had my friend gear up. He had a helmet and i gave him my extra kneepads and wrist guards (I got two sets of ewheels wrist guards b/c of the 2 wheels i bought). I started teaching him the basics - how the device works, how to figure out the dominant foot, how to properly mount/dismount. Once he got used to all of that I got him going on some drills (push the EUC along with some supporting foot). While he was practicing, I decided to take my Nikola for a spin around the block. I wheel it away from the wall it is leaning against, and tried to mount it. As I mounted, the wheel then suddenly turns off and I almost fall. Our mutual friend laughs at me, saying something along the lines of "aren't you supposed to be good at this?". I was of course more concerned that the wheel suddenly turned off so I started examining it. Pushing on the power button did nothing so that was alarming. 20 or so seconds later, white smoke starts coming out. I tell everyone to back up (I've seen the video of the other Nikola "exploding"). I thought maybe a fuse or a mosfet blew somehow. I did not expect the whole thing to go up in flames. Of course the fire department was involved to put out the fire. I had to give a statement about the make and model... This whole thing is bad... but I think the worst thing that came out of this is that my friend no longer wants to learn. I was unable to share the joy of riding an euc because of this incident. My backpack that I had with me was also lost due to the fire. I had some water bottles in there, but also my V8 charger. I was planning on lending the V8 to my friend so he could practice on his own after our session. I mentioned this to Jason, and he just sent me a replacement one free of charge. Overall, I guess the silver lining is that it all happened outside. Without knowing why the thing just went up in flames, it could've happened while it was inside my apartment. I'm also super grateful that I purchased my wheel through a distributor that puts the safety of his customers above everything else.
  50. 2 likes
    For snow, isn't the general principle (for any kind of vehicle) to use thinner tires instead of wider tires? (To slice down through to the road surface instead of compacting/floating on top of the snow with little traction.) I'm not sure, but if so that would be a vote in favor of something like the 18xl with a 2.5" tire over a 3" tire. Of course there are so many variables that something like tread/etc could perhaps have just as much or more of an impact than mere width.
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