Ask Me Any Inmotion V10F Questions

[Marty Backe]

Inmotion is loaning me a V10F (thanks @Jeffrey Scott Will) to test & review.

I like to think that I'm thorough and objective. If you have specific questions I may be able to address them in my video review.

Ask away, but please be reasonable. Don't ask me what the torque response is like when climbing a 21-1/2 degree incline 

Your questions can help to keep me from forgetting anything important or useful to you.

Unfortunately, as it stands right now I'm only going to have the wheel for one day. So no comparitive range test or other thorough tests will be possible 

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

We are seeing about possibly letting you have it for longer, but I need to check a few things.

[steve454]

22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Inmotion is loaning me a V10F (thanks @Jeffrey Scott Will) to test & review.

I like to think that I'm thorough and objective. If you have specific questions I may be able to address them in my video review.

Ask away, but please be reasonable. Don't ask me what the torque response is like when climbing a 21-1/2 degree incline 

Your questions can help to keep me from forgetting anything important or useful to you.

Unfortunately, as it stands right now I'm only going to have the wheel for one day. So no comparitive range test or other thorough tests will be possible 

Looking forward to a short video with commentary while riding.  Your videos are excellent.

I'm interested in your opinion of the pedal height, the general feel of the wheel, the feel of the tire, how does the charger compare to other chargers.

Also how is the app?

Thanks in advance, hope you have a good experience with it.

The new app looks great.

Is the shell sturdy?

 

[Cloud]

@Marty Backe I have  question. When you try the wheel, I’d like to know how easy you will find resisting the increased moment of inertia of this wheel which appears to be somewhat top/ front heavy, specifically when making angular movements around the vertical axis as well as horizontal axis along the line of travel 

In other words, I’d like to know how easy it will feel to tilt the wheel to the side with your legs  and/or  how easy to bring the wheel back into balance when it “wants” to tilt/ sway from side to side. I suspect that you will find this subject interesting once you have tried the wheel

Also, I’d like to ask Inmotion, I am curious as to why, when the general goal/approach is to make wheels lighter and smaller as much as possible ( for each respective tire size), they decided to go in the seemingly opposite direction ? Maybe this is something @Jeffrey Scott Will will be able to answer? There has to be some kind of calculated strategy/ reasoning behind it which would be great to know more about

thanks

Edited April 17, 2018 by Cloud

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

8 minutes ago, Cloud said:

@Marty Backe I have  question. When you try the wheel, I’d like to know how easy you will find resisting the increased moment of inertia of this wheel which appears to be somewhat top/ front heavy, specifically when making angular movements around the vertical axis as well as horizontal axis along the line of travel 

In other words, I’d like to know how easy it will feel to tilt the wheel to the side with your legs  and/or  how easy to bring the wheel back into balance when it “wants” to tilt/ sway from side to side. I suspect that you will find this subject interesting once you have tried the wheel

Also, I’d like to ask Inmotion, I am curious as to why, when the general goal/approach is to make wheels lighter and smaller as much as possible ( for each respective tire size), they decided to go in the seemingly opposite direction ? Maybe this is something @Jeffrey Scott Will will be able to answer? There has to be some kind of calculated strategy/ reasoning behind it which would be great to know more about

thanks

To address the first question, I'm sure Marty will want to give his opinion on this, but this is an area I have a lot of interest mainly because I feel most current flagship wheels to a pretty bad job of this. InMotion's engineers actually started from the ground up with V10 to tackle this exact issue of weight distribution. What exactly did they change or move around? I couldn't tell you, but they had a lot to consider to make this all work in this form factor. In practice, after having spent a few weeks with the very V10F Marty is about to get, I'll say YES it feels heavy. There is no getting around that if you want range. But what makes it more manageable compared to other heavy beasts is the tall and slim body. This makes a HUGE difference not only in just managing the wheel at a stand still with one leg, but also mounting/dismounting and general control and stability while riding. Like I said, you can definitely feels the weight, but how do you manage potential top heavy sensation? Well, I don't feel it seems top heavy, just heavy in general. I think its about as well balanced as possible. If you feel that it feel too difficult to bring upright after banking into a turn it means one thing: your tire pressure is too low! Give it a bit more air - this will naturally coax the wheel upright and exit the turn more naturally. It's a more sensitive issue in general with heavy wheels IMO. Just tweak this to your weight and height and you'll be very happy with V10F.

As for your second point, I would actually argue that they have gone bigger and heavier only if you compare it to V8. The community demands (very loudly) more range, and InMotion engineers have given it to us. And they've done it in a smaller(where it matters: width) package without making and critical sacrifices compared to the competition. This is so much more comfortable and nimble/maneuverable compared to anything else IMO. 

[Cloud]

52 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

I'll say YES it feels heavy. There is no getting around that if you want range. But what makes it more manageable compared to other heavy beasts is the tall and slim body.

Thank you , Jeffrey, for the quick response . I actually think that the effect of the weight on manouverable pales in comparison with the effect of the increased size. People sometimes forget that the increased size affects the moment of inertia ( and consequently the agility/ nimbleness) sometimes much more so than the weight.

 

52 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

This makes a HUGE difference not only in just managing the wheel at a stand still with one leg, but also mounting/dismounting and general control and stability while riding.

Yes for sure . Generally speaking any larger / heavier wheel will be more comfortable to mount / hold with one leg /ride on one leg than a smaller one, as more leg surface is in contact with the wheel side, and there is more leverage, and also because the bigger/ heavier wheel is more inert ( usually perceived as stability)

52 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

Well, I don't feel it seems top heavy, just heavy in general.

Well this wheel is taller than most ( if not all) other 16 inch wheels. Which means it sits higher over the top point of the tire than other wheels, as the bottom point of the tire is obviously always at the same elevation - ground level. Also I believe the batteries are located rather high. This inescapably adds to being top heavy

52 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

As for your second point, I would actually argue that they have gone bigger and heavier only if you compare it to V8

Not really. It  has the biggest / tallest profile of pretty much any other 16” wheel on the market and bigger than some 18” wheels 

52 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

And they've done it in a smaller(where it matters: width) package without making and critical sacrifices compared to the competition. This is so much more comfortable and nimble/maneuverable compared to anything else IMO. 

Again, I am not so sure that the width is the only dimension that matters. I would think the maximum wheel dimension would matter more when describing size ( which is its diameter). Also It is yet to be demonstrated that the ultimately taller/ thinner wheel is necessarily more maneuverable. In fact I had an opposite sensation when riding it. When I switched from it to other 16” wheels, they felt much more nimble.

but I do understand your answer to my question : basically to minimize the width (and maintain the same volume of all other other components/parts inside), inmotion had to increase the diameter / height 

52 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

your tire pressure is too low! Give it a bit more air - this will naturally coax the wheel upright and exit the turn more naturally.

Perhaps. I suppose it is possible that the tire pressure was not optimal, this deserves the benefit of the doubt. 

By the way, nice job on the pedal size - feels better than the msuper pedals. The side pads are great and comfortable also and the leg position feels very natural.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Cloud

[EUCMania]

@Marty Backe : I ope you can do the following tests:

1. Bump/pothole/tree roots stability test: The wider tire of V10 allows the tire pressure to go down to 2.125/2.5 = 0.85 of 2.15 tire's pressure. Please compare with another 16" wheel with 2.125 tire with this much pressure ratio for rider's comfort over a bump or pot hole.

After that, inflate to the same pressure to repeat the test.

2. Hill climbing test for with about 30 degree angle.

3. Acceleration test: Get a friend of similar weight as yours. Do acceleration test to see who is faster.

4. Pendulum test to see how easy it is to do it.

5. Continue pendulum-ing to see how if possible to overheat it.

6. Single leg gliding to see where it is hard on your calf comparing with other models.

7. Lift-up speed test to see the cut-off speed.

8. Twist test to see whether the control tilt to sides. For single core control board, it is known that when you keeps twisting the EUC with hands, the EUC may misbehave. I remember some EUC's tile forward when turning. I think V10's dual-core may have an advantage here.

9. Figure-8 test and Radius test for agility.

....... 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by EUCMania

[novazeus]

tire specs would be nice. size, min and max air pressure, max load capacity.

also, what psi u run when testing it.

pictures would be nice, like valve stem access. 

how the high pedals feel.

is the trolley handle removable without it looking like a part is missing?

seems like the nyc and seattle demo days were a bust, i’ve hardly heard a peep about reviews from those people.

Edited April 17, 2018 by novazeus

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

@Cloud I see what you mean about maneuverability in terms of height, but that's only if you like to maneuver by tilting the wheel back and forth more exclusively. V10 is not trying to be that kind of trick-style maneuvering wheel. At 16" with high pedals and a tall design you get the best of both worlds: stability/control with a nice leg lock, and the ability to turn on a dime and bank hard. Just like other larger wheels, you use more of your body to maneuver, not your ankles. But now it's just easier because it's still 16". It's more of a road wheel that can out maneuver other larger road wheels. People that test drive are commenting that it "feels" like and 18" wheel but somehow more comfortable and maneuverable. I think that's pretty accurate. For more insight, I'll have to share some more footage from our promo video shoot so you can take a close look at the way my buddy Ethan was riding it. You'll see how he's able to support himself against the wheel when diving into corners but also whip and spin it around easily. Doing that kind of thing is very easy with this wheel. There is no other 16" that rides like this. Of course that doesn't mean that it's the 16" wheel you want - maybe you like the looser feeling between your legs, but V10 is a lot more stable and confidence instilling IMO. Exactly where I wanting to see them go with it, so personally I'm thrilled.

 

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

2 minutes ago, novazeus said:

tire specs would be nice. size, min and max air pressure, max load capacity.

also, what psi u run when testing it.

pictures would be nice, like valve stem access. 

how the high pedals feel.

seems like the nyc and seattle demo days were a bust, i’ve hardly heard a peep about reviews from those people.

It was NYC's biggest meetup ever, actually, according to @houseofjob. There are already some videos up if you want to get some hands on first impressions.

[novazeus]

2 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

It was NYC's biggest meetup ever, actually, according to @houseofjob. There are already some videos up if you want to get some hands on first impressions.

i’ve looked at the videos and i’ve seen a few comments. do u know the tire specs i asked?

[Mono]

I am in favor of a mount test: is it even possible** to get the second foot up the elevated pedal height? @Marty Backe, please test this!

 

Spoiler

** for an old man

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Mono

[novazeus]

On 3/27/2018 at 3:06 AM, RoseInMotion said:

We need to air ship a limited quantity of V10s for media and reviews, so we are thinking of also air shipping some extra units for our first batch of pre-orders. 

The first shipment will probably depart around April 10th, and it should take about 10 days to arrive in San Diego, which means arrival will be around April 20th. 

We haven't got an exact number of how many we can get from the factory for the first batch,  but we'll ship out to customers according to our pre-order sequence, which means the earliest birds have a chance to be the first to receive the V10, the most powerful model that InMotion ever made, by April 20th.

Want to be the first to receive your V10? Reserve now! https://www.ridev10.com

so i should be getting mine by friday?

[Mrd777]

A big thanks to @houseofjob and Jerome, who met me in lower Manhattan tonight to let me give the V10 a go.  I thought the wheel was fantastic, and immediately felt comfortable. We ran around in wind gusting over 30 mph.. I noticed It certainly takes a bit of effort to slow the wheel down from full speed, which is to be expected from a powerful heavy wheel.  

I hope the handle is a little more secure on the final production, as it had quite a lot of play. One of our conversations was about future firmware tweaks that Inmotion might apply to really dial in on the wheel, like possibly a few more mph.. hope this is a possibility ?  I didn’t experience any tilt back, however I got the verbal warning in Chinese to “slow down”

 The wheel seems like a winner, congratulations Inmotion, and thanks for providing demos for people to taste your new product, appreciate the effort.

I’m looking forward to owning it.

 ‘

[houseofjob]

31 minutes ago, novazeus said:

seems like the nyc and seattle demo days were a bust, i’ve hardly heard a peep about reviews from those people.

That's probably because most of our NYC riders barely ever read, let alone post on the EUC forums here, minus a few diehards (*cough* @Mrd777 *cough* #welcomeback @Cloud). We have a bigger presence on the various FB EUC groups plus a group FB chat (all the NYC group ride invites / polls get bigger responses over there).

So in terms of the NYC V10F demo, I'd say it was rather the opposite: a big hit! (someday we'll coax out all 70+ registered NYC tri-state area EUC forum users! )

The consensus impressions / takeaways were:

1. the V10F is big, bigger in person compared to the promos
2. the V10F feels like an 18" in a 16" wheel
3. the V10F is comfortable, from those big fat pedals(!) to the cushy side pads, to the planted feeling of a 2.5" wide tire

Outside of that, IMHO I don't think you can unleash ALL the idiosyncrasies of a wheel unless you really ride for at least 40-50 miles.

 

35 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i’ve looked at the videos and i’ve seen a few comments. do u know the tire specs i asked?

• Kenda
• 16" x 2.5" (64-305)
• "max load 75kg"
• "Inflate to 40PSI"

[CaptainKBLS]

I don't know if you ever rode a V8 but I would like to know at what speed the V10F wobbles or maybe not.

The V8 was very sensible, I have to constantly ding it left or right to keep it straight.  The ACM, I just ride.  How's the V10F?

What is the effect of the wider wheel?

Please share a picture of the V10F next to the ACM and one of your 18inch wheel.

What is the range you are getting from a full charge?

What exactly is the weight?

How do you like trolley handle?  I thought the V8 handle was very comfortable.

While I hate scraping the bottom of the pedal when turning, I don't want to sacrifice stability.  Is it less stable with higher pedal?

Thank you.

[novazeus]

10 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

That's probably because most of our NYC riders barely ever read, let alone post on the EUC forums here, minus a few diehards (*cough* @Mrd777 *cough* #welcomeback @Cloud). We have a bigger presence on the various FB EUC groups plus a group FB chat (all the NYC group ride invites / polls get bigger responses over there).

So in terms of the NYC V10F demo, I'd say it was rather the opposite: a big hit! (someday we'll coax out all 70+ registered NYC tri-state area EUC forum users! )

The consensus impressions / takeaways were:

1. the V10F is big, bigger in person compared to the promos
2. the V10F feels like an 18" in a 16" wheel
3. the V10F is comfortable, from those big fat pedals(!) to the cushy side pads, to the planted feeling of a 2.5" wide tire

Outside of that, IMHO I don't think you can unleash ALL the idiosyncrasies of a wheel unless you really ride for at least 40-50 miles.

 

• Kenda
• 16" x 2.5" (64-305)
• "max load 75kg"
• "Inflate to 40PSI"

thanks, i was trying to spur a response out of somebody. u gotta admit, for a demo day thing of a hyped wheel kept under wraps, reviews have been scant. i like the full leg adhesion holding the wheel with one leg like on my ks18s and from what i can glean, it seems like the v10 does that well? i’m hoping the removal of the trolley handle doesn’t make it look like it’s missing something, if it can be removedl

[Master Blaster]

50 minutes ago, novazeus said:

so i should be getting mine by friday?

Don’t hold your breath dude 

[houseofjob]

2 minutes ago, novazeus said:

thanks, i was trying to spur a response out of somebody. u gotta admit, for a demo day thing of a hyped wheel kept under wraps, reviews have been scant. i like the full leg adhesion holding the wheel with one leg like on my ks18s and from what i can glean, it seems like the v10 does that well? i’m hoping the removal of the trolley handle doesn’t make it look like it’s missing something, if it can be removedl

Being a KS18S owner myself, I would say the pads for both KS18S and V10F hit your upper shin / lower knee in the relative same place, but the physics of the KS18S lend itself for your whole shin / calf to sit/press more flush with the bigger surface area pad, while the V10F physics lend itself for just a small area under the knee to sit against the pad, like a bumper (V10F) vs a full pad (KS18S).

And yes, the trolley is implemented just like the V5 scorpion trolley: you can remove it via 4 screws. The look should be similar to a big V8, but situated with V5-style side pads.

[Esash]

I don't watch Marty Backe EUC Reviews to watch Marty take orders from other riders 

I want to know what Marty thinks of the wheel, by his own criteria and initial and final impressions after putting the wheel through the same general tests you put the other wheels through.

I'd hate for Marty to not have time for uphill/downhill stress tests and other around town tests because he spent hours doing boring pendulum tests or air pressure tests.

 

[novazeus]

39 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Being a KS18S owner myself, I would say the pads for both KS18S and V10F hit your upper shin / lower knee in the relative same place, but the physics of the KS18S lend itself for your whole shin / calf to sit/press more flush with the bigger surface area pad, while the V10F physics lend itself for just a small area under the knee to sit against the pad, like a bumper (V10F) vs a full pad (KS18S).

And yes, the trolley is implemented just like the V5 scorpion trolley: you can remove it via 4 screws. The look should be similar to a big V8, but situated with V5-style side pads.

thanks. that’s what it looks like. i would think the 16” wheel with those motor numbers be more responsive than the 18s too.

[novazeus]

53 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

Don’t hold your breath dude 

yeah, i don’t do that. i’ve been trying to get a phone unlocked by the idiots at at&t since thursday, and still no closer to getting that done. 

if i had known how incompetent at&t is, i woulda just bought two new unlocked phones instead of one.

i’m just quoting Rose the ceo. why would she say that and not mean it?

[z3n]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Inmotion is loaning me a V10F (thanks @Jeffrey Scott Will) to test & review.

I like to think that I'm thorough and objective. If you have specific questions I may be able to address them in my video review.

Ask away, but please be reasonable. Don't ask me what the torque response is like when climbing a 21-1/2 degree incline 

Your questions can help to keep me from forgetting anything important or useful to you.

Unfortunately, as it stands right now I'm only going to have the wheel for one day. So no comparitive range test or other thorough tests will be possible 

Since I mainly use EUC for commuting, mostly at night, I'm most concerned about its head and tail lights. I know they are already advertised as Bright, but hopefully @Marty Backe could/would test:

• The distance throw of the front light.
• The highest speed you comfortable to ride in the dark making sure you can still avoid those pot-holes just depending on the front light.
• How visible the tail light to be seen by another commuter (bikes, motorcycles and even cars). From their perspective degree of view since we already know that V10 tail light is kind of being covered a little by the handle.
• How do you access the valve. Is it comparatively easier/harder? Especially coming from a V8 user like me.
• Will the pedals still hold your feet well in wet condition (light rain)? Maybe by making your shoes sole wet a little bit since we know that there are hardly any rain in SoCal. 
• The waterproofing condition of it? Safely enough for riding in light rain?
• How well is V10 Active Cooling System? They say you would never worry about Overheat. 

Hope it's not too much to ask @Marty Backe. Thank you! 

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, EUCMania said:

@Marty Backe : I ope you can do the following tests:

1. Bump/pothole/tree roots stability test: The wider tire of V10 allows the tire pressure to go down to 2.125/2.5 = 0.85 of 2.15 tire's pressure. Please compare with another 16" wheel with 2.125 tire with this much pressure ratio for rider's comfort over a bump or pot hole.

After that, inflate to the same pressure to repeat the test.

2. Hill climbing test for with about 30 degree angle.

3. Acceleration test: Get a friend of similar weight as yours. Do acceleration test to see who is faster.

4. Pendulum test to see how easy it is to do it.

5. Continue pendulum-ing to see how if possible to overheat it.

6. Single leg gliding to see where it is hard on your calf comparing with other models.

7. Lift-up speed test to see the cut-off speed.

8. Twist test to see whether the control tilt to sides. For single core control board, it is known that when you keeps twisting the EUC with hands, the EUC may misbehave. I remember some EUC's tile forward when turning. I think V10's dual-core may have an advantage here.

9. Figure-8 test and Radius test for agility.

....... 

 

 

 

Didn't you read what I said here: "Ask away, but please be reasonable. Don't ask me what the torque response is like when climbing a 21-1/2 degree incline "

I can probably address a few of your questions though 

[GoinPostal]

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Inmotion is loaning me a V10F (thanks @Jeffrey Scott Will) to test & review.

I like to think that I'm thorough and objective. 

I concur.  I would say you are very objective, honest, and fair.  Your only downside is an ornery streak that causes you to poke goinpostal endlessly for his KingSong fanboy status. ?

Looking forward to your review.