E-bike not working out...

[TremF]

Hi all,

This is a long one, sorry, but when I get like this I waffle more than usual as I think I need to explain myself and the pain/trouble I'm going through to help others understand.

I'm feeling quite down, and also very angry, at the moment. As some know I used to be very active.

When I was younger I used to run everywhere. Getting older I either walked or cycled everywhere and could easily do 10/15/20 miles per day with no effects. Then I started having problems with cycling. I would get so far then my legs would feel like I'd cycled the Tour de France or something. They felt very weak and painful and I had to walk back pushing and leaning on the bike. I had never had this before. This was around 5-6 years ago and the end of my cycling days.

After the cycling stopped I found I was still able to walk a few miles, though I didn't have the opportunities to do the longer walks to see if I'd be effected, so I carried on walking but after a year to 18 months I suddenly couldn't even walk a few hundred yards without extreme pain, weakness and tiredness. It was now also affecting my work as it meant I was unable to walk to on site meetings. Work were very understanding and my role became more desk bound (not that they had much choice) while I seeked medical advice to find out what was going on. 

It seems there were a few problems but no definitive answers as I was passed from specialist to specialist until it was found that I had compression of the spinal cord in my neck. This had been causing migraines that knocked me off my feet for weeks. It also affected my fine motor skills and pins & needles in my hands and feet. I also have degeneration of the lower spine which might be what is affecting my legs . 

Anyway after seeing a neurosurgeon for a while I was sent for an op to remove the bone spurs that were compressing my spinal cord and fuse two vertebrae together. The pins and needles and migraines stopped and I have slightly better fine motor skills now but since the op I've had pain on the left side of my neck to my shoulder which is treated with Amitriptyline which is an antidepressant and good for nerve pain apparently. I am also on Tramadol full time for my lower back pain though it sometimes isn't enough so I top up with paracetamol & ibuprofen. My leg pain/weakness is still there, hence me thinking it may be related to my lower back problems. If I manage it properly, as I seemed to be doing with the EUC's, I am able to do more activities, day/shopping trips and rides out with my girls.  

This is where it starts to go wrong...

I recently got an e-bike because I found one where -

I was sat upright - so as not to cause more neck pain - I can't put my head back as you normally would when leaning for a normal bike

had big chunky tires - to absorb lumps and bumps so as not to aggravate my back too much

and pedal assist - so I'm not working too hard....

Only I am... by cycling, even assisted, my legs are hurting and feeling weak and because I am controlling the handle bars my arms are doing more so they too are feeling weak. This means that when I need to do something else which requires some walking I am very quickly in pain and feeling weak for days afterwards.

Yesterday I needed to pop for some shopping. It was around a mile walk but my wife met me along the way in the car to pick me up. Whilst walking around the store I was in pain and feeling weak and was getting sharp stabbing pain in my lower back which had me responding verbally as well as the usual winces. When we got home I popped for a lie down but it didn't help.

As per usual, when not managed well, I am aching all over with my legs feeling the worst and I feel weak and tired. I rode in to work today but I'm not sure I'll be riding in tomorrow - unless I charge the bike up and try just using the throttle. I really could do with work providing me with a laptop so I can work from home 1 day a week, maybe Wednesday, to break up the week and give me a little recovery time rather than keeping going until i can't go any longer like when I had my accident last year and couldn't/didn't ride for 6 weeks plus. I was only walking to and from bus stops then but it was too much and I ended up booking time off work to recover and going back riding the Monster.

I hate the limitations more than I hate getting public transport but I don't drive. I should go back to my Dr but previously, after the Op, I was just given various meds until they found something that managed the pain level I had IF I wasn't doing too much. They didn't know what was still causing my problems other than if it was damage caused by the compression that may/may not mend over time - it hasn't. I don't want to be taking time off work again being passed from specialist to specialist as that's more tiring than trying to manage the pain and weakness myself BUT I'm not doing that too well at the moment while riding my e-bike.

Driving could be an option but I could struggle passing the test as I have concentration problems (though not as bad while riding the EUC's) and I'd still be doing things with my arms and legs that could aggravate pain and weakness - in particularly the arms with the steering. 

Again sorry for the waffle. I find it easier putting this into text than talking but also sharing makes it a little easier than just bottling it up to the point where I am snapping at little things and sat in the office almost in tears at the frustration and anger that this may never get better and I have to resign myself to finding easier ways to get about other than a mobility scooter.

[WARPed1701D]

I'm sorry to hear the bike isn't working out as expected. It seems your options for alternatives are highly limited. Are you sure eBikes are the problem or "this bike" is the problem? I've been considering the same move from EUC's to eBikes revently and done a load of research. The bike you got, while expensive, is actually on the cheap end of the eBike market and that will have meant significant compromises which could be impacting you.

Motor: Do you know the max torque of the motor? What about the assistance percentage? How much effort is required to keep you moving at speed? Definitely try using the throttle for an entire trip. I know this is illegal but it will help determine just how much the pedalling is causing the issue, vs shocks from the ride, and ride position. Do you have to contend with any hills (even short ones)? How much extra effort is required to keep the bike moving when faced with these? A low torque motor will mean more effort on your part to keep rolling. I also note that this bike is a rear hub drive bike. These are generally weaker units as they cannot take advantage of the gearing a bike has like when a motor is mid mounted at the cranks and connected to the wheel through the chain and gears

Fat tires are also great for shock absorbing but are no substitute for proper suspension. Could the shocks from the terrain be transferring up to your spine and causing discomfort in other areas due to your nerve damage?

I would do some more experimentation but given your lack of transportation options I think if this bike isn't working maybe you should look at others with different specs. Full suspension with a mid drive motor might alleviate some or all of your issues. Bosch make the best mid drive units right now and the CX line motor (designed for mountain biking) has the highest level of assist (300%) and the greatest torque (75Nm) of all units meaning nearly effortless riding at almost any gradient. Bikes with this spec are going to run you close to or even over 3k pounds but that is still going to run cheaper than getting your driving license and buying and running a car which is starting to look like the next viable option. The Trek Powerfly 5 FS is one such bike at the top end of the cost scale. Not sure if it is sold in the UK though.

Otherwise, maybe getting a driving license is going to be your best bet. If you think it will be hard to do now it will only get harder as you get older. Bite the bullet? It sucks...but then everything about your situation does.  

[WARPed1701D]

Oh and also, the Bosch drive unit (complying with all regulations unlike many Chinese units) will be limited to UK max speed of 15.5mph but there are electronic mods out there that can fool the speed sensor and increase max speed if that is a a concern for you. I know you found the current bike to be a slower journey even though it breaks regulations.

[TremF]

Thank you for your ideas/advice. i really appreciate the feedback. I'll take a look at some of the bikes you mentioned and see what positives & negatives they may have but I think where bikes are I am limited to ones in the city bike style I have due to needing a more upright riding position for two reasons. Firstly the issue I have where my legs become painful, stiff and feel weak is the same with my arms so leaning forward with more pressure on the arms would cause more problems. With my current situation I struggled riding home, even with throttle, due to my arms aching. I also need to be more upright so I can keep my head straighter as my op limited my range of movement and tilting my head back  is uncomfortable and quickly becomes painful.

The pedal assist (Bafang 500w motor with 5 levels of assist (no idea of torque but the throttle can get me up the hills I've tried so far - If I can stop myself pedaling!) plus throttle with a 48v 15.4ah battery) really only needs me to turn the pedals - like being on an exercise bike with no resistance, even on the hills I have to ride up. Me being me though can't just ride steadily along - for 25+ years I always used to cycle everywhere quickly, because I could, so cycling again now I keep pushing myself and the bike even though now I can't. I can feel this but where it really makes a difference and is noticeable is when I want/need to do a bit of walking and realise I can't do as much as when I used to ride EUC's.

Another reason for this style of bike was i need something that folds small enough to put under my desk at work as it's a bit of a trek to our nearest bike shed at the back of the building and I need to get to the front for the lift access.

I may end up doing 90% EUC travel, because it is MUCH easier and save the bike for weather the EUC's can't handle. At the moment I need to just think of how to get through my current pain/weakness situation. If I ride it won't get better but walking to and from the bus is no easier. i've not got any time booked off until early April but when i was last like this I couldn't manage beyond a week of getting the bus. 

I can't think or concentrate properly when I'm in this level of discomfort/pain so will have to have a think during my time off in April.

[WARPed1701D]

Best of luck finding something that works for you. EUCs might be the only viable option for you. You'll just have to sink a load of cash in some extreme body protection so as to not worsen your health further when the next fall happens (as we know it will).

[Rehab1]

10 hours ago, TremF said:

Again sorry for the waffle. I find it easier putting this into text than talking but also sharing makes it a little easier than just bottling it up to the point where I am snapping at little things and sat in the office almost in tears at the frustration and anger that this may never get better and I have to resign myself to finding easier ways to get about other than a mobility scooter.

I am so sorry! You can always vent here. I as many others are willing to listen. Dialogue on this forum has certainly helped me. I wished I had a magic wand to help ease your pain. Take care and God Bless!

[Smoother]

I'm going to tell you a story, that will make sense once you read it.

A woman I knew once had a very unhappy, sickly 2-year-old child.  I can't remember the descriptions of his ailments but, suffice to say conventional medicine achieved nothing, and just threw painkillers and other drugs at the problem.  Someone suggested she take him to an Osteopath.  By the end of the first session, the boy was sitting up on the examination bed, happy, content, quiet, smiling.; a night and day change.  The Osteopath had tweaked his frame and relieved stress etc.  A second visit was recommended but it turned out it wasn't needed; the fix had taken completely.  That kid is now thriving in medical school.

The GP absolutely refused to believe the Osteopathic treatment had produced the positive results.  But the mother saw the instant positive change in him, while months of conventional medicine had achieved nothing.

Go see a good Osteopath.  You have nothing to lose except a bit of time and money. YMMV

[MetricUSA]

So far it sounds you only tried upright bikes, have you tried recumbent bikes? They do take up more room and are not bus friendly, but at least you can relax and have a better sitting position...

Edited April 11, 2018 by MetricUSA

[RayRay]

On 3/15/2018 at 1:11 PM, TremF said:

Another reason for this style of bike was i need something that folds small enough to put under my desk at work as it's a bit of a trek to our nearest bike shed at the back of the building and I need to get to the front for the lift access.

A better folding ebike than (what I assume is a VeeGo by the specs) sounds like a tall order. I know the Voltbike and Radmini are comparable folding e-bikes (both available with fat tires), but the request was for a "more upright" riding position, which would seem to necessitate a recumbent...

If folding is not an absolute requirement (I don't know of any folding recumbent ebikes) and also money is no object, I read about the Day 6 Behemoth e-bike in a New Atlas article... It has fat tires and a very upright seating position (with lumbar support as well). Unfortunately, it doesn't fold and it's expensive (even for an e-bike).

Edited April 12, 2018 by RayRay

[TremF]

10 hours ago, RayRay said:

A better folding ebike than (what I assume is a VeeGo by the specs) sounds like a tall order. I know the Voltbike and Radmini are comparable folding e-bikes (both available with fat tires), but the request was for a "more upright" riding position, which would seem to necessitate a recumbent...

If folding is not an absolute requirement (I don't know of any folding recumbent ebikes) and also money is no object, I read about the Day 6 Behemoth e-bike in a New Atlas article... It has fat tires and a very upright seating position (with lumbar support as well). Unfortunately, it doesn't fold and it's expensive (even for an e-bike).

There's some interesting recumbent bike options out there and that Behemoth bike looks really cool and would definitely be ideal if e-bikes worked but as time goes on I'm struggling more and have had to give in and go back to the Dr's.

Previously the EUC helped me "manage" my condition with the level of painkillers I am on but with the e-bike I am no longer managing and it's starting to affect my work again as it did before my op and the EUC's. I'm also back to not being able to do outings with the family as even short walks are proving too difficult and painful.

If I can manage it financially then I think I may be looking to get back to EUC's later in the year. There should be some interesting choices once people have had chance to test the new releases properly.

[meepmeepmayer]

Not a pretty story!

I strongly support the osteopath idea. As well as going more from medical attempts to back health attempts - maybe an orthopedic specialist or chiropractor, some physical strength training for your back or just a plain gym routine, something in that direction? (WhyI find the osteopath a good idea) You know much better what was tried and what could work, but you can't just treat symptoms, and this may be another way to deal with the cause.

Would an e-scooter work for you? You just stand on it and do light steering movements? The Dualtrons, meant for offroad, may have good enough suspension (it's not like EUCs have any).

[TremF]

13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Not a pretty story!

I strongly support the osteopath idea. As well as going more from medical attempts to back health attempts - maybe an orthopedic specialist or chiropractor, some physical strength training for your back or just a plain gym routine, something in that direction? (WhyI find the osteopath a good idea) You know much better what was tried and what could work, but you can't just treat symptoms, and this may be another way to deal with the cause.

Would an e-scooter work for you? You just stand on it and do light steering movements? The Dualtrons, meant for offroad, may have good enough suspension (it's not like EUCs have any).

I think that, now we've given the nerves sometime to repair after my op, that my Dr is intent on getting to the root of the problem, it could be that the degeneration in my lower spine is causing some of the issues. A work colleague recently said my symptoms sound like Fibromyalgia, which  a friend of theirs has, but I don't like to self diagnose.

I tried the gym but it didn't help and also limited the time I was able to spend on family outings. With my years of running, long walks & cycling I am not unfit or weak I just can no longer maintain and any exertion takes up to a weak to recover from which isn't normal even for someone who isn't active in any way.

Anyway I am having bloods taken later in the month and once my Dr has the results he'll decide the next course of action but is currently thinking either a rheumatologist or back to a neurologist. I will mention the osteopath to see what he thinks.

EUC's are perfect - I was able to manage my pain brilliantly while I was riding and I think the extra concentration needed helped take my mind off the pain too but we had more snow/slush/ice this time around so there were more occasions I couldn't ride plus my accident made me a nervous rider. I do like the look of the Dualtrons. They would be fun  but they are definitely illegal here plus with my current pain levels I am not in the best mood for having people pointing, laughing etc The EUC's mostly got "wow" and the odd laugh, the e-bike has had more laughs. I'm no longer riding for fun but for necessity so don't share in others amusement.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Just throwing this out there, but could a physician's note grant you a possible exemption to the rules to allow the use of an electric scooter like @Pingouin's Dualtron?  Is there any leeway for medically related transport devices?  Electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters seem to be permitted in most places.  Maybe you might have a case for a special permit.  Check with your doctor and governing body?

Edited April 13, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

31 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Just throwing this out there, but could a physician's note grant you a possible exemption to the rules to allow the use of an electric scooter like @Pingouin's Dualtron?  Is there any leeway for medically related transport devices?  Electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters seem to be permitted in most places.  Maybe you might have a case for a special permit.  Check with your doctor and governing body?

This isn't 1900 @Hunka Hunka Burning Love  I'm sure the entrenched bureaucracies only allow pre-approved medical devices. Probably costs >$1,000,000 to get a device approved.

[TremF]

5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Just throwing this out there, but could a physician's note grant you a possible exemption to the rules to allow the use of an electric scooter like @Pingouin's Dualtron?  Is there any leeway for medically related transport devices?  Electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters seem to be permitted in most places.  Maybe you might have a case for a special permit.  Check with your doctor and governing body?

I couldn't cope with the laughs if I was given the OK to ride an electric scooter. Seriously I am sick of the laughs and comments I get from drivers for riding a chunky e-bike.

Also while riding the EUC's I wasn't so aware I have the same issue with my arms because they weren't in use but riding the e-bike has shown I can't hold / use my arms as my upper arms start to feel heavy, weak & have the burning sensation too. It can also take up to a week for my arms to recover too where even holding them to type on my keyboard and use my mouse at work is a problem. So the bike, and anything else with handle bars, is an issue and even holding my arms for a steering wheel, if i could drive, would likely be a problem too.

While I start on a new journey to find out what the problem is my Dr is composing a letter for me to give to my employer that has some background into my current medical issues/symptoms & states that working from home, either once a week or when I don't feel able to travel may, be beneficial to aid recovery rather than aggravating the condition. 

I hate coming across so negative but since this all started and stopped me from cycling then walking I still can't come to terms with my limitations. 

[Pingouin]

Hi @TremF,

I understand your limitations, I myself am limited physically due to my handicap (multiple sclerosis) making me unable to walk for long or do any physical activity, I've been through most transportation solutions, pedal assist electric bikes, electric unicycles, electric scooter, segway...

For now, I would put a full E-bike on top of the list if you have physical limitations, I mean with a throttle, fully suspended, with a special seat, I think it would be the most appropriate for your situation regarding your limitations, even more so than EUC even though they might be illegal, but they are hard to recognize from a regular E-bike plus I think the police would be tolerant.

But for your arms I don't know, I would't go for a powerful e-scooter, because all of the acceleration force goes through your armes. I'm sorry I don't have any real solutions to offer..

@Hunka Hunka Burning Love electric scooters like the dualtron are theoritcally illegal, but the police & people here don't care.

[Rehab1]

 

11 hours ago, TremF said:

I hate coming across so negative but since this all started and stopped me from cycling then walking I still can't come to terms with my limitations. 

Sorry buddy!  I sense your frustration. Hopefully your physicians can zero in on what is causing your neurological issues. 

[mearchd]

I suggest you can contact your electric bike manufature for help, they will give you professional advice
 

[OldFartRides]

Here is a more recent thread about what’s going on with member TremF

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/24703-long-time-no-speak-new-wheels/?tab=comments#comment-385993

P.S. Welcome to the forum.

[mhpr262]

That sucks dude. I recently spent weeks dealing with severe, reoccuring nerve pain in my right hip and leg. Sometimes as I was walking - or even worse, while ridng my EUC - totally out of the blue an almost electric pain would flash through my hip and down my right leg, almost making my knee buckle involuntarily.

I would have had to stop riding my EUC if it had gotten any worse, but it seems like it was caused by having my legs in a certain position for long hours while surfing the internet in my bed (left leg drawn up, right ankle resting on the kneecap of my left leg) and that seems to have overstrained the nerve in my right hip. I try to change the position of my legs more now and stretch and the pain seems to have gone.

Healthy people have a thousand wishes, sick people only one.