Scott Henley Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I’ve been given the opportunity to get a good deal on a practically new 18s . It’s the 840wh version though. I’ve heard that the 1680wh version doesn’t really have all that great of a range so wondering what people have gotten out of the 840. My main consideration here is price . Is 25-35mi feasible ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nute Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I have just acquired the same thing, not done a full range test but I'm 220lbs and from my experience so far i would think 25m+ is easily achievable but it would depend on your riding style and topography. It is very different to ride than a smaller form factor wheel, took a bit of getting used to for me but now i really enjoy it, lots of torque, lovely and stable but be warned, the tiltback at your max set speed is very sudden and pronounced. Took me by surprise the first time ... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 25 should be no problem. 35 might be a stretch, especially if you like eating too many pies, have a lot of hilly terrain, or want to ride in cold temperatures. Remember that riding these to empty is rarely a good idea. You can buy batteries to convert to the 1640Wh at a later date but you may find this to cost more than just getting a 1640Wh now as you should replace all the cells rather than just adding to the ones you anyway have. The whole range thing with the 18S is open for debate. Some say it gets good range, some say otherwise so it could be that there is no problem at all with the efficiency of the 18s. For reference 480Wh gets me 23 miles to empty on my V8 which consumes at an average rate of about 22Wh/mile which is about standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, nute said: I have just acquired the same thing, not done a full range test but I'm 220lbs and from my experience so far i would think 25m+ is easily achievable but it would depend on your riding style and topography. It is very different to ride than a smaller form factor wheel, took a bit of getting used to for me but now i really enjoy it, lots of torque, lovely and stable but be warned, the tiltback at your max set speed is very sudden and pronounced. Took me by surprise the first time ... ! I am 165lbs . So I guess I’d be alright. Also not a lot of hills around here . The ones we do have are steep .. but short . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Scott Henley said: I’ve been given the opportunity to get a good deal on a practically new 18s . It’s the 840wh version though. I’ve heard that the 1680wh version doesn’t really have all that great of a range so wondering what people have gotten out of the 840. My main consideration here is price . Is 25-35mi feasible ? You can count with 13 to 20wh per 1 km, depending on weight, drivestyle and temperatur...(like on all 16/18 inch wheels, 14inch are better normaly) ...average is about 15-17wh for 1 km for the KS18S (and the older KS18A) For my 18S 1680wh i controlled !every! charge with the Charge Doctor, which gives you the exact number of watthour wh that you inject back into the battery's. i have done 30 charges with an average of 1000wh per charge(mostly charging from 30-90%), which are 30000wh for 1800km = ca 16,6wh per one km. Just one tip: DONT take an 840wh version!!! You will hate your decision later....Its not just range, a bigger battery is more safe, it is not stressed as much as a smaller one, the probability of a battery failure gets lower, you dont need to charge that often on a big battery, and that can make the battery living longer etc etc etc...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: You can count with 13 to 20wh per 1 km, depending on weight, drivestyle and temperatur...(like on all 16/18 inch wheels, 14inch are better normaly) ...average is about 15-17wh for 1 km for the KS18S (and the older KS18A) For my 18S 1680wh i controlled !every! charge with the Charge Doctor, which gives you the exact number of watthour wh that you inject back into the battery's. i have done 30 charges with an average of 1000wh per charge(mostly charging from 30-90%), which are 30000wh for 1800km = ca 16,6wh per one km. Just one tip: DONT take an 840wh version!!! You will hate your decision later....Its not just range, a bigger battery is more safe, it is not stressed as much as a smaller one, the probability of a battery failure gets lower, you dont need to charge that often on a big battery, and that can make the battery living longer etc etc etc...... I whole heartily agree with @KingSong69. Don't do it. In addition to his arguments I would add that KingSong's aggressive speed limiters that kick in when the battery level lowers, will kick in much sooner on the 840wh version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I whole heartily agree with @KingSong69. Don't do it. In addition to his arguments I would add that KingSong's aggressive speed limiters that kick in when the battery level lowers, will kick in much sooner on the 840wh version. You guys are breaking my heart here . Lol I was excited about it . Not even if it’s arond the same price as a 16s?? I have a 14D currently and for now the range seems adequate. Although I do charge it nightly . ? due to my riding style but I figured 2x that in wh would be okay. ? Does the larger motor come into play here though ? Draining more battery ? Well you guys seem extremely knowledgeable so if you really think it’s a bad decision I’ll heed your warnings . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 @KingSong69 is the KS18S 840wh just 2 4p wrapped packs down each leg, as in he can’t just add another pack later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just now, houseofjob said: @KingSong69 is the KS18S 840wh just 2 4p wrapped packs down each leg, as in he can’t just add another pack later? yes, correct, sure you can add the giant 840wh pack on top later.... But normally this gets more expensive than buying a 1680wh direct. Also, as i understand @Scott Henley , he WANTs to make a big jump from his 420wh 14D :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nute Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, Scott Henley said: You guys are breaking my heart here . Lol I was excited about it . Not even if it’s arond the same price as a 16s?? I have a 14D currently and for now the range seems adequate. Although I do charge it nightly . ? due to my riding style but I figured 2x that in wh would be okay. ? Does the larger motor come into play here though ? Draining more battery ? Well you guys seem extremely knowledgeable so if you really think it’s a bad decision I’ll heed your warnings . I would disagree with @KingSong69 & @Marty Backe, if all you need is 25+ miles the 840 will do it easily. If its a good deal go for it. Remember the new KS18L and the Z10 are going to be out in a few months with max battery sizes only 200w/h or so over the 840, there will be plenty of takers for each. I would go ride it as for me the biggest question is not the battery size but whether you will like the different form factor. I love mine but i tend to use it for longer non urban runs and use the V8 for riding in crowded places where you are weaving around people all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 46 minutes ago, Scott Henley said: You guys are breaking my heart here . Lol I was excited about it . Not even if it’s arond the same price as a 16s?? I have a 14D currently and for now the range seems adequate. Although I do charge it nightly . ? due to my riding style but I figured 2x that in wh would be okay. ? Does the larger motor come into play here though ? Draining more battery ? Well you guys seem extremely knowledgeable so if you really think it’s a bad decision I’ll heed your warnings . i dont want to talk the 840wh Version bad for you... Powerwise it is the same as the 1680wh Version. BUt you have to exspect a higher drain than on the 14D. The motor is 1500W ...not 800Watt. Its just from experience, i have a friend who has an 680wh KS18....its just not enough for him and upgrading is more expensive than selling it and buy a new 1680wh Version...... And what means its prisewise like a 16S??? Take your orientation on the ewheels KS18S prices. If your 840wh version offer is that much better than the ewheels price for the 840wh Version....take it....and later you still can buy the other 840wh pack if you really need it. Thats what i would do :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I'm with @KingSong69; go big or to small, but don't compromise. In addition, a big 18 incher sucks on battery like a sailor on beer; 1600 wh is more like 1000 on an 16 incher. 18 inchers get terrible mileage through a combination of high speed and powerful motors that you cannot resist having fun with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Scott Henley said: I’ve been given the opportunity to get a good deal on a practically new 18s . It’s the 840wh version though. I’ve heard that the 1680wh version doesn’t really have all that great of a range so wondering what people have gotten out of the 840. My main consideration here is price . Is 25-35mi feasible ? Yes, for your height and weight. You will get around 25 miles before you reach 40% power left. I took my 1680wh to the beach and did 50 miles with Michael Vu from the forum. I still had 44% and we raced at full speed for about 20 miles of that. I was wearing a heavy backpack, so I was 165 lbs for the trip. I dont use any of those Genius chargers because I am too insecure to let innanimate objects be smarter than me. Its an attack by technology at the lowest level. I understand that computers are smarter, but a charger? Lol just get the Fast charger from ewheels and buy a new battery pack in two and a half to three years instead of three or four with constant usage. I think that the 1680 wh version needs the 840wh pack to be squeezed into the upper pads area in the case. The case needs to be cut out for that pack just under those upper pads, so ask if this 840wh ks18s has those plastic panels cut out to accomodate these. Maybe even ask Jason if all are scored at that point to install them later. It may be a little bit of a trial to have to self cut them if they are not scored. These packs are aroung $500 on ewheels, so make sure the discount is enough to cover these if needed later. GO FOR IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said: I dont use any of those Genius chargers because I am too insecure to let innanimate objects be smarter than me. Its an attack by technology at the lowest level. I understand that computers are smarter, but a charger? Lol just get the Fast charger from ewheels and buy a new battery pack in two and a half to three years instead of three or four with constant usage. Best. Post. of. the. Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Scott Henley said: You guys are breaking my heart here . Lol I was excited about it . Not even if it’s arond the same price as a 16s?? I have a 14D currently and for now the range seems adequate. Although I do charge it nightly . ? due to my riding style but I figured 2x that in wh would be okay. ? Does the larger motor come into play here though ? Draining more battery ? Well you guys seem extremely knowledgeable so if you really think it’s a bad decision I’ll heed your warnings . Why not just buy a 16S then? If I was starting the process of building my wheels collection I'd always opt for a solid 16-inch wheel first, like an ACM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, nute said: I would disagree with @KingSong69 & @Marty Backe, if all you need is 25+ miles the 840 will do it easily. If its a good deal go for it. Remember the new KS18L and the Z10 are going to be out in a few months with max battery sizes only 200w/h or so over the 840, there will be plenty of takers for each. I would go ride it as for me the biggest question is not the battery size but whether you will like the different form factor. I love mine but i tend to use it for longer non urban runs and use the V8 for riding in crowded places where you are weaving around people all the time. For any given wheel, I will now always buy the model with the largest battery. There are just too many benefits which have already been elaborated here. Yeah, there will be plenty of takers for the KS18L and Z10 because they only have the one option. You can bet if the 18L had a ~1600wh battery option, most buyers (not all for sure) would buy that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outcast00096 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Scott Henley said: I’ve been given the opportunity to get a good deal on a practically new 18s . It’s the 840wh version though. I’ve heard that the 1680wh version doesn’t really have all that great of a range so wondering what people have gotten out of the 840. My main consideration here is price . Is 25-35mi feasible ? Maybe. Dale said he rode his 16s 22 miles and it was limping to his friend's house (you might want to ask him). The motor is more powerful than the 16s though and that might factor in, however, elevation and speed are always going to be bummers. I don't know what your terrain is like but that would not be realistic where I live at all. If you watch Marty's stress test then imagine riding on that all the time because I get that kind of mileage out of my machine. If yours is mostly flat then a strong maybe. 6 hours ago, Scott Henley said: I’ve been given the opportunity to get a good deal on a practically new 18s . It’s the 840wh version though. I’ve heard that the 1680wh version doesn’t really have all that great of a range so wondering what people have gotten out of the 840. My main consideration here is price . Is 25-35mi feasible ? There's a few folks with the 840 version. I haven't heard them complaining though. I think @eddiemoy has it and I can't remember the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, outcast00096 said: Maybe. Dale said he rode his 16s 22 miles and it was limping to his friend's house (you might want to ask him). The motor is more powerful than the 16s though and that might factor in, however, elevation and speed are always going to be bummers. I don't know what your terrain is like but that would not be realistic where I live at all. If you watch Marty's stress test then imagine riding on that all the time because I get that kind of mileage out of my machine. If yours is mostly flat then a strong maybe. There's a few folks with the 840 version. I haven't heard them complaining though. I think @eddiemoy has it and I can't remember the second. I think it's really going to come down to how far you like to ride. @eddiemoy doesn't ride long distances, so it's great. But if think you'll enjoy 30+ mile rides I would go for the bigger battery. If you're a 10-mile ride kind of guy, the 840wh version would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I think it's really going to come down to how far you like to ride. Yep. And price (how much you can and want to afford). And remember: nobody has ever complained about having a too big battery! *hint hint* *1680* In seriousness, you know best. But unless you're instinctively sure you definitely don't want the range (or you don't have the money or feel like you'd rather pay less now and maybe have more for a different wheel later), I'd pass the 840. Life's too short (and the possible routes as well) for such compromises if you don't have a good reason to make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveThomasPilot Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Don't forget about the difference in weight. The 840 Wh is pretty darn heavy itself. That's more important for me than most, since I carry it on my airplane where every pound matters. But, my 840 Wh 14C has way more range than I do. I trade some of the capacity for lower weight (but I'm probably the exception and probably a "nobody"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I think it's really going to come down to how far you like to ride. @eddiemoy doesn't ride long distances, so it's great. But if think you'll enjoy 30+ mile rides I would go for the bigger battery. If you're a 10-mile ride kind of guy, the 840wh version would be great. I think right at 30 would be good . Due to my location the farthest I could ride if I wanted to would be about 25-30mi . Freeway and major roads kind of Incase me and there isn’t a ton of sidewalk . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Why not just buy a 16S then? If I was starting the process of building my wheels collection I'd always opt for a solid 16-inch wheel first, like an ACM Was trying not to have too much overlap and maybe I’m wrong but a 14 and 16 seem capable of about the same riding. I take my 14 on some pretty rough MTB trails and it performs wonderfully. So just figured my next wheel would be an 18 and then after that Monster time . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 14 and 18 gives you much bigger variety than 14 and 16. Definitely go 18 over 16. Given how Marty barely got 45 miles out of the 1680, not sure if 840 is safely enough for 30. But I might be too pessimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Scott Henley said: Was trying not to have too much overlap and maybe I’m wrong but a 14 and 16 seem capable of about the same riding. I take my 14 on some pretty rough MTB trails and it performs wonderfully. So just figured my next wheel would be an 18 and then after that Monster time . ? There's actually a pretty big difference between a 14-inch and 16-inch wheel, IMO. I think the 16-inch wheel is the ideal general purpose wheel. All others are more specialized. Not that they all can't fill every need, but there are compromises. You have a good plan though, and one that I follow. Have one of every size. So don't forget to get my favorite wheel - the Mten3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 My vote is that the 840wh version is enough. There's another user here who has one and has been very happy. I've been surprised at how important ride comfort and stability has become for me after experiencing the 18S. I'm willing to deal with some of it's less convenient characteristics for the ride quality. I'd take the 840wh 18S rather than a 16S in your shoes. I'm excited about the Z10 and believe I'll still own it, despite my disappointment at learning they're not using an 84v system, because I expect it to take comfort and stability to a whole new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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