mezzanine Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 King Song is fond of reminding us that we must purchase their wheels through official channels in order to get warranty service and repairs. If you wanted to make a show of faith to demonstrate the value of buying through official distributors, how about compensating those of us that purchased the KS18S only to discover that the advertised expected mileage from this wheel is dramatically lower than it should be? It's exactly the kind of false advertising that would leave you open to a class-action lawsuit if there were more than a couple dozen owners in both North America and Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, mezzanine said: King Song is fond of reminding us that we must purchase their wheels through official channels in order to get warranty service and repairs. If you wanted to make a show of faith to demonstrate the value of buying through official distributors, how about compensating those of us that purchased the KS18S only to discover that the advertised expected mileage from this wheel is dramatically lower than it should be? It's exactly the kind of false advertising that would leave you open to a class-action lawsuit if there were more than a couple dozen owners in both North America and Europe. You have to remember that the mileage is dependent on your weight, how you ride, and various other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 35 minutes ago, abinder3 said: You have to remember that the mileage is dependent on your weight, how you ride, and various other factors. You should do more reading about this particular problem before commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 You may be over reacting to a user error. This Sunday, @Michael Vu and I rode 50 miles from Redondo beach to Santa Monica and I still had 45% power left. He had 20% power on his 18" Msuper. I would calibrate the wheel to your leaning style because you may be fighting the wheel of you have the top center as your leaning point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said: You may be over reacting to a user error. This Sunday, @Michael Vu and I rode 50 miles from Redondo beach to Santa Monica and I still had 45% power left. He had 20% power on his 18" Msuper. I would calibrate the wheel to your leaning style because you may be fighting the wheel of you have the top center as your leaning point. It won't amount to anything because of exactly this ambiguity, but I'm fairly confident in my own conclusion. The only person who has provided actual measurable data is Marty and his results leave little doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 4 hours ago, mezzanine said: You should do more reading about this particular problem before commenting. I pretty sure I know at least as much about it as you do. By the way, how much do you weigh and how fast do you ride ? And what’s the temperature outside where you’re riding ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, abinder3 said: I pretty sure I know at least as much about it as you do. By the way, how much do you weigh and how fast do you ride ? And what’s the temperature outside where you’re riding ? Maybe Marty will chime in and you can ask him. What was your explanation for his results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Actually Marty may not have calibrated his correctly, as Michael and I are 50lbs apart and this accounted for the extra 20% that I still had over him. We rode the exact same route at the exact same speed. So Gotway should refund Michael for his Msuper too, since he only got 50 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just now, Stan Onymous said: Actually Marty may not have calibrated his correctly, as Michael and I are 50lbs apart and this accounted for the extra 20% that I still had over him. We rode the exact same route at the exact same speed. So Gotway should refund Michael for his Msuper too, since he only got 50 miles So you're saying the calibration is responsible for the difference? You have other examples of incorrect calibration producing a mileage difference of that much distance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Before I calibrated for the lean I noticed an abnormal battery consumption, and an uncomfortable ride. After setting the lean forward for my style It was easier to ride and apparently solves the battery consumption problem. But so sad for Gotway Msuper 1600wh batteries and distance tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 I'd love to hear more detail about calibration issues causing a 25% loss of battery performance. Hopefully others can chime in with more examples. It's something I wasn't aware of and I assumed I'd have heard about it if it could be so significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 33 minutes ago, mezzanine said: Maybe Marty will chime in and you can ask him. What was your explanation for his results? You still haven’t answered my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, abinder3 said: You still haven’t answered my questions. Only one person here has firm data about the 18S performance and that's Marty. Unless you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I actually gave you better data in real world proper usage. Why don't you prove me wrong by calibrating your lean to the front of the EUC. Otherwise you are only throwing words and accusations at KS with no real data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 29 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said: I actually gave you better data in real world proper usage. Why don't you prove me wrong by calibrating your lean to the front of the EUC. Otherwise you are only throwing words and accusations at KS with no real data Better data than Marty's? You made reference to someone named Michael and a trip you guys took that explained the issue in your view, but maybe you explained more thoroughly in Marty's 18S thread? I'm very interested in learning more about the calibration phenomenon you're describing and would like to look at other examples to better understand where I've gone in wrong my reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranium Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 51 minutes ago, mezzanine said: Only one person here has firm data about the 18S performance and that's Marty. Unless you do? You're whole argument is around one person's personal testing? Good luck with getting some kind of class action suit with that. You should go after automobile makers first. When's the last time you got your cars rater MPG? At least they have a lot of money and there are many more people you can have on your side fighting a fruitless fight. And good luck trying to find a law firm willing to take on the case without any money up front. And they'll need lots of it to go after foreign companies. There isn't much to go on with this case except a few peoples personal experiences. Do you think it would be impossible for them to replicate the rated range in their ideal environment? If they did that your case if baseless. And what are you trying to get form King Song in return to get a legal firm paid for their efforts? I don't think they would take King Song EUCs as payment. I just bought a KS 16S. When it comes in, I am positive I won't get the advertised range. But I'm perfectly ok with that. What I wouldn't be ok with is if they stated the battery capacity to be one thing and it turned out the cells they put in the batteries were much less. That, my friend, would be a lawsuit. But just complaining about the range isn't what they put on paper really isn't worth much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just now, Cranium said: You're whole argument is around one person's personal testing? Good luck with getting some kind of class action suit with that. You should go after automobile makers first. When's the last time you got your cars rater MPG? At least they have a lot of money and there are many more people you can have on your side fighting a fruitless fight. And good luck trying to find a law firm willing to take on the case without any money up front. And they'll need lots of it to go after foreign companies. There isn't much to go on with this case except a few peoples personal experiences. Do you think it would be impossible for them to replicate the rated range in their ideal environment? If they did that your case if baseless. And what are you trying to get form King Song in return to get a legal firm paid for their efforts? I don't think they would take King Song EUCs as payment. I just bought a KS 16S. When it comes in, I am positive I won't get the advertised range. But I'm perfectly ok with that. What I wouldn't be ok with is if they stated the battery capacity to be one thing and it turned out the cells they put in the batteries were much less. That, my friend, would be a lawsuit. But just complaining about the range isn't what they put on paper really isn't worth much. Did you really come away from my post with the impression I was proposing a class action suit? I can't help but wonder what the reaction to the Gotway firmware issue would have been if it had only affected a single model that wasn't widely owned. If only a few people who owned that particular wheel experienced the cutout, the response would have been that there wasn't enough data to suggest the problem could be on Gotway's end. The reality is that there are not many 18S EUCs in the wild to be able to draw on a larger sampling of data. It doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranium Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 You expect to be able to just get a handout from King Song without a lawsuit? That would be opening the door for everyone to start looking for handouts. That is a business giving money away for nothing. It just won't happen. Even if a problem exists, you have to prove it exists. Going for a ride and measuring your distance doesn't really mean much. You could try to find out their test conditions and then replicate those. Or find something concrete proving they acted with malice. Like finding out at what speed is the EUC motor and control board most efficient and then what the maximum weight of a rider would be for a new EUC to achieve the stated range on level ground and with cool temperatures (too hot and too cold adversely affects battery efficiency). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 There may be an actual problem with some taller heavier riders achieving the optimal range that could be mitigated besides mentioning that fact on page 1 or 3 of the owners manual and the item description on its website. However calling the people who would ostensibly be able to look into it and fix it liars is a bit of a bad strategy. Why not as @cranium stated see if beefing up some wiring would fix the problem for heavier taller riders? I doubt my leaning calibration would solve the entire problem, but it could help. If you indeed have this problem, you could try something other than complaining. I think you may be better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 7 hours ago, mezzanine said: It won't amount to anything because of exactly this ambiguity, but I'm fairly confident in my own conclusion. The only person who has provided actual measurable data is Marty and his results leave little doubt. Sure...he has done about 120miles on the 18S and just ONE range test and his subpar results contradicts everything i have found, measured with a Charge Doctor and documented over 1600km now on my 18S....16wh per km, which goes with with what all French users have found and reported in the French Forum! So Yes, Marty's results dont leave little doubt....they leave a LOT doubt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 11 hours ago, mezzanine said: Only one person here has firm data about the 18S performance and that's Marty. Unless you do? Why are you still avoiding my original questions that I asked you ? ”By the way, how much do you weigh and how fast do you ride ? And what’s the temperature outside where you’re riding ?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, abinder3 said: Why are you still avoiding my original questions that I asked you ? ”By the way, how much do you weigh and how fast do you ride ? And what’s the temperature outside where you’re riding ?” To my understanding because all this is irrelevant for the measurements that Marty provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Valley Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 you must have missed the part where they state ""up to" X amount of milage/kilometers" in their advertisement. no one seems to concur with your statement. and frankly, i wonder, why even bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasenutty Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 What size battery and how many miles do you get out of your 18s, Mezzanine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Make a table with a Quote rider weight | approximate temperature | range from full battery maybe it helps. I'm getting the impression this is weight related. Light people get the usual craaaaazy ranges (like 1% battery per km), and "normal weight" (80+kg) gets much reduced range compared to other wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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