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KS18S Review After 130-miles


Marty Backe

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Great review. Pretty much what I expected - great quality, but not the right form factor for mountains, due to lack of gripping and a high contact point.

Liking how you lovingly fondle the thing, your impression can't have been too bad.

Are you sure it's 1680Wh? You got the same range as your 840Wh 14S which is literally half the battery. Sure, you were a bit faster with the 18S, but that can't be right???

Putting the other wheels next to it for comparison is a simple but fantastic thing. Monster still best looking wheel:efeeec645d: Even when falling down:efee612b4b:

--

Also, shocking: not only wearing long sleeves, but a woolen pullover with long sleeves! What has the world (or at least the weather in California) come to? You ok?:efeebb3acc:

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Thanks Marty for this review.

It confirms what i already noticed about the range off the ks 18s.

I get between 60 and 65 km ( that's around you're 42 miles ) out a full load on the KS, and was a bit disappointed with that.

Had the feeling at first that there must be a problem with the battery, like you say.

But now i think it's is just the range of an KS 18s, with riding above 30 and accelerate quickly.

Ofcourse with speeds around 20 km and easy accelaration you can get more km/miles out of the wheel.

With the 1600wh acm i get between 80 and 90 km, with speed most of the time between 30 and 35 or more.

Recognize you have to get used again to the hight when come off my acm.

But the more i ride the KS the more i get used to it.

Agree that it is still an very nice an powerfull wheel, mostly for long tours or commuting.

And with a trolley handle on it, it makes the wheel more useable, for me at least :)

But if i had too choose between just one off the wheels, i think it would be the acm..:ph34r:

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5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, my 1300Wh ACM does that under pretty bad conditions (30km/h, 5°C, some wind).

Like Marty already say, his acm 1300 have about the same range.

That's why i was a bit disappointed, because it's 80wh more than my acm.

Thought it would be not that much difference in range, but no now it is.

Still beside the range a great wheel, and nice to ride on different conditions :)

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@Marty Backe when you pull the ks14s out to compare pedals, you refer to some extra little pads.  My ks16 had these too.  They weren't stuck on that well, and because they were the only part of the pedal that contacted the shell, I assumed they were packing protection for the shell. I immediately pealed them off and stuck them to the bottom of the pedal arms, where the pedals make contact.  They have been there over a month, and they do two things:

1. They stop the nasty "clank" when the pedals are deployed.

2. They act as pretty good shock absorbers.  

A much more polished experience  on both accounts, along with weakening the pedal springs, and greasing the pedal rods.

I don't get any adverse pedal camber from their deployment.

i used the traditional ribbed padding, that my supplier included, on the shell, so the pedals still do not contact the shell when parked. 

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17 minutes ago, Smoother said:

@Marty Backe when you pull the ks14s out to compare pedals, you refer to some extra little pads.  My ks16 had these too.  They weren't stuck on that well, and because they were the only part of the pedal that contacted the shell, I assumed they were packing protection for the shell. I immediately pealed them off and stuck them to the bottom of the pedal arms, where the pedals make contact.  They have been there over a month, and they do two things:

1. They stop the nasty "clank" when the pedals are deploy.

2. They act as pretty good shock absorbers.  

A much more polished experience  on both accounts, along with weakening the pedal springs, and greasing the pedal rods.

I don't get any adverse pedal camber from their deployment.

i used the traditional ribbed padding, that my supplier included, on the shell, so the pedals still do not contact the shell when parked. 

Yeah, I'm embarrassed to learn that those little pads are there for shipping purposes. Mine felt very secure so I didn't remove them. And it turns out that they add a lot of additional grip to your feel. And surprisingly, after 250-miles of riding, they are still holding strong on the KS14S. Go figure.

You have an interesting re-purposing idea, but for now I'm keeping them where they are.

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8 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Great review. Pretty much what I expected - great quality, but not the right form factor for mountains, due to lack of gripping and a high contact point.

Liking how you lovingly fondle the thing, your impression can't have been too bad.

Are you sure it's 1680Wh? You got the same range as your 840Wh 14S which is literally half the battery. Sure, you were a bit faster with the 18S, but that can't be right???

Putting the other wheels next to it for comparison is a simple but fantastic thing. Monster still best looking wheel:efeeec645d: Even when falling down:efee612b4b:

--

Also, shocking: not only wearing long sleeves, but a woolen pullover with long sleeves! What has the world (or at least the weather in California) come to? You ok?:efeebb3acc:

I know some will probably disagree with me, but yes, it's not the ideal mountain wheel although it can certainly handle the mountains.

My impressions certainly weren't bad.

All the stickers say 1680wh and the owner paid for a 1680wh wheel. I'm hearing more stories of other users who get similar mileage to what I got, so I'm thinking it's not a great long range wheel for how I ride it - I know @KingSong69 and others get fantastic mileage from theirs. So there's certainly a mystery here.

It's back in the mid-70's today, so I'm doing better. Thanks for asking :thumbup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey @Marty Backe great review! I am getting 50km with 70% battery power left on my longest journey so far. I go up some pretty steep hills along the way without going back down all the steep ones yet. Did you callibrate the verticle lean? You may be fighting the machine and using more power if the machine has a different top dead center than you intend for it. I found that helped my ride immensly.

I have also found that the larger tire will handle steeper hills but you have to be very patient with the leaning while the vehicle crawls up. It is the same idea with those large off road trucks when they go boulder climbing. Slow as it goes takes you up quicker. I have found the smaller tire 16" wheels are like motor cross bikes in the way they attack a hill, where the tall 18" KS is like a baja race truck with the disadvatages of the weight but the advantage of the power. It is completely different than any of my other wheels when off road, and not what I had expected from such a heavy wheel. It is nimble and large, like a baby goat but large enough to buck you off like a testy bull once its climbed a ten foot rock.

your video reviews are really a top rate production. :thumbup:

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54 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

Hey @Marty Backe great review! I am getting 50km with 70% battery power left on my longest journey so far. I go up some pretty steep hills along the way without going back down all the steep ones yet. Did you callibrate the verticle lean? You may be fighting the machine and using more power if the machine has a different top dead center than you intend for it. I found that helped my ride immensly.

I have also found that the larger tire will handle steeper hills but you have to be very patient with the leaning while the vehicle crawls up. It is the same idea with those large off road trucks when they go boulder climbing. Slow as it goes takes you up quicker. I have found the smaller tire 16" wheels are like motor cross bikes in the way they attack a hill, where the tall 18" KS is like a baja race truck with the disadvatages of the weight but the advantage of the power. It is completely different than any of my other wheels when off road, and not what I had expected from such a heavy wheel. It is nimble and large, like a baby goat but large enough to buck you off like a testy bull once its climbed a ten foot rock.

your video reviews are really a top rate production. :thumbup:

Thanks Bill :D

Regarding calibration, I did calibrate the wheel. But for my range test I performed very little hill climbing. You get amazing mileage on all of your wheels :) I suspect you do because of your weight - lack there of ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/5/2018 at 11:11 AM, Stan Onymous said:

I have also found that the larger tire will handle steeper hills but you have to be very patient with the leaning while the vehicle crawls up. It is the same idea with those large off road trucks when they go boulder climbing. Slow as it goes takes you up quicker. I have found the smaller tire 16" wheels are like motor cross bikes in the way they attack a hill, where the tall 18" KS is like a baja race truck with the disadvatages of the weight but the advantage of the power. It is completely different than any of my other wheels when off road, and not what I had expected from such a heavy wheel. It is nimble and large, like a baby goat but large enough to buck you off like a testy bull once its climbed a ten foot rock.

I think it's not just large tires that are needed for off-road. From what I understand, the diameter of truck wheels is also an important factor. The wider and larger wheels mean greater weight that affects handling and rolling inertia. This also robs some engine power. For off-road performance, it's recommended to run a wheel diameter no bigger than half the tire height.

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  • 3 months later...
On 12/27/2017 at 12:02 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Great review. Pretty much what I expected - great quality, but not the right form factor for mountains, due to lack of gripping and a high contact point.

Liking how you lovingly fondle the thing, your impression can't have been too bad.

Are you sure it's 1680Wh? You got the same range as your 840Wh 14S which is literally half the battery. Sure, you were a bit faster with the 18S, but that can't be right???

Putting the other wheels next to it for comparison is a simple but fantastic thing. Monster still best looking wheel:efeeec645d: Even when falling down:efee612b4b:

--

Also, shocking: not only wearing long sleeves, but a woolen pullover with long sleeves! What has the world (or at least the weather in California) come to? You ok?:efeebb3acc:

So, I bought this wheel (THE actual one in Marty's video) a month or so back. I didn't see the video until after I had purchased it. Arrived fine, rides like a dream! But I couldn't believe the range so I opened it up and one of the three batteries was disconnected. It of course has three batteries (1x840 + 2x420 - all three connect in parallel through a wire harness) one of the wire sets of the harness had ripped out of the connectors. I didn't have the mindset to notice which one of the batteries was disconnected but very well could have been the 840wh. Anyway replaced the wire harness, charged up to 100% from just under 50% and it took about 900 wh! Rode it on Sunday just over 40 miles, at 17-19 mph top speed, in Houston so it's pretty flat...and it used 49% battery! I'm 175 lbs. So definitely a disconnected battery!   

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17 minutes ago, Evel_Knievel said:

So, I bought this wheel (THE actual one in Marty's video) a month or so back. I didn't see the video until after I had purchased it. Arrived fine, rides like a dream! But I couldn't believe the range so I opened it up and one of the three batteries was disconnected. It of course has three batteries (1x840 + 2x420 - all three connect in parallel through a wire harness) one of the wire sets of the harness had ripped out of the connectors. I didn't have the mindset to notice which one of the batteries was disconnected but very well could have been the 840wh. Anyway replaced the wire harness, charged up to 100% from just under 50% and it took about 900 wh! Rode it on Sunday just over 40 miles, at 17-19 mph top speed, in Houston so it's pretty flat...and it used 49% battery! I'm 175 lbs. So definitely a disconnected battery!   

Wow!  Well, this makes me feel better. I was doubting myself because of the limited range that I got in my range test.

I just couldn't believe that there was a battery problem considering how new the wheel was, with limited miles on the odometer. And of course it wasn't my wheel to open up to investigate.

Thanks a lot for letting us know what you discovered. I know that @US69 will be happy to know this, I'm happy to know that I wasn't imagining things, and @Sketch may be disappointed in knowing his wheel was faulty :(

The big question is how did this happen? You say the wire was ripped out of the connector. It came from the factory like this? Since the wheel was bought from EWheels, @Jason McNeil should be made aware of this (I just did by tagging him :))

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22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Wow!  Well, this makes me feel better. I was doubting myself because of the limited range that I got in my range test.

I just couldn't believe that there was a battery problem considering how new the wheel was, with limited miles on the odometer. And of course it wasn't my wheel to open up to investigate.

Thanks a lot for letting us know what you discovered. I know that @US69 will be happy to know this, I'm happy to know that I wasn't imaging things, and @Sketch may be disappointed in knowing his wheel was faulty :(

The big question is how did this happen? You say the wire was ripped out of the connector. It came from the factory like this? Since the wheel was bought from EWheels, @Jason McNeil should be made aware of this (I just did by tagging him :))

Don't get me wrong. Simple fix, and I'm completely happy with the wheel! Love this thing!

As far as how it happened I'd guess it's just a matter of cramming three batteries and associated wires into a compartment that small. It was all in there very neatly, but it's tight. Could happen to anyone. Could have been a faulty wire harness from the factory (soldered poorly and finally disconnected).

I love being able to track wh's going into the batteries though. Unless your doing that there is no way to know if one battery goes bad. Makes me feel a little more comfortable about the health of the battery. Plus I'm a pretty big nerd :)

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10 minutes ago, Evel_Knievel said:

Don't get me wrong. Simple fix, and I'm completely happy with the wheel! Love this thing!

As far as how it happened I'd guess it's just a matter of cramming three batteries and associated wires into a compartment that small. It was all in there very neatly, but it's tight. Could happen to anyone. Could have been a faulty wire harness from the factory (soldered poorly and finally disconnected).

I love being able to track wh's going into the batteries though. Unless your doing that there is no way to know if one battery goes bad. Makes me feel a little more comfortable about the health of the battery. Plus I'm a pretty big nerd :)

It's a great wheel :thumbup: I know you live in flat land, but if you ever take into mountainous regions you can feel confident, knowing that it's been pre-tested for those conditions ;)

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@Evel_Knievel  Wow!  I sorry you ran into this,  but glad you have the know how to troubleshoot it and fix the problem.  I never traveled that far to question the range and never opened it up.  It’s a great wheel and I hope you enjoy it.

 

 

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I'm really pleased to see follow up to this as the original range problem introduced so many questions and was even mentioned the other day in a discussion on efficiency. Thanks for posting your findings. Enjoy that great wheel!

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forgive me for poking my nose in here but did the battery pack not being connected keep the charge reading from the apps below 100%?

@Flora Yuan is trying to help me figure out why both of my ks wheels, 18s and 16s only show a charge of 90% and 92% respectively.

i don’t need the range but supposedly ur suppse to charge to 100% every so often.

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14 minutes ago, novazeus said:

forgive me for poking my nose in here but did the battery pack not being connected keep the charge reading from the apps below 100%?

@Flora Yuan is trying to help me figure out why both of my ks wheels, 18s and 16s only show a charge of 90% and 92% respectively.

i don’t need the range but supposedly ur suppse to charge to 100% every so often.

Nope. Unless I'm completely wrong, "Percent" is strictly a voltage reading. A charge to 67.2 volts which would be 100% on the 16s (2 batteries) or 18s (3 batteries on the 1680 wh version). So I'd bet when you open your app and go to details you'll see closer to 65.6 volts rather than 67.2 volts (90% would be 65.6 volts). With a monster sized battery like the 1680 wh battery in this 18S I plan to typically only charge to 64 volts (or 80%) in order to be easier on the battery. I simply don't need that much range normally. I'll plan to charge to 100% once or twice a year in order to balance the cells.

The voltage is independent of the number of batteries that are hooked up in parallel. In this case 2 of 3 were working but it reads 100% since the voltage is being read from the 2 connected batteries. I'm guessing that the app reads the shipped battery size and makes an assumption to the remaining range (but I'm just guessing). In this case I don't think anyone could have known one battery was not functioning correctly unless they did a range test - which Marty did and was suspicious when he got unexpected results.

There are a number of chargers out there that you can adjust the voltage on. I have a cycle satiator, but it's expensive. Have you tried a different charger? That's where I would start.  

What voltage does your app say is on the battery? 

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Thanks for the update! Good to hear the range is as it should be.

How did you make sure the batteries had the same voltage when you connected them? After all, you couldn't know the charge state of the unconnected one. I'm a bit confused what happens when batteries with different voltages get connected (on a KS).

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2 minutes ago, Evel_Knievel said:

Nope. Unless I'm completely wrong, "Percent" is strictly a voltage reading. A charge to 67.2 volts which would be 100% on the 16s (2 batteries) or 18s (3 batteries on the 1680 wh version). So I'd bet when you open your app and go to details you'll see closer to 65.6 volts rather than 67.2 volts (90% would be 65.6 volts). With a monster sized battery like the 1680 wh battery in this 18S I plan to typically only charge to 64 volts (or 80%) in order to be easier on the battery. I simply don't need that much range normally. I'll plan to charge to 100% once or twice a year in order to balance the cells.

The voltage is independent of the number of batteries that are hooked up in parallel. In this case 2 of 3 were working but it reads 100% since the voltage is being read from the 2 connected batteries. I'm guessing that the app reads the shipped battery size and makes an assumption to the remaining range (but I'm just guessing). In this case I don't think anyone could have known one battery was not functioning correctly unless they did a range test - which Marty did and was suspicious when he got unexpected results.

There are a number of chargers out there that you can adjust the voltage on. I have a cycle satiator, but it's expensive. Have you tried a different charger? That's where I would start.  

What voltage does your app say is on the battery? 

these are screenshots after pulling my 18s and 16s off the charger after it turns green. same results with three different brick chargers. @Flora Yuanis trying to figure out why.

18s

Screenshot_20180227-174758

16s

Screenshot_20180227-223513

it’s weird how the app shows 2.9 mph top speed when it hasn’t moved.

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1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Thanks for the update! Good to hear the range is as it should be.

How did you make sure the batteries had the same voltage when you connected them? After all, you couldn't know the charge state of the unconnected one. I'm a bit confused what happens when batteries with different voltages get connected (on a KS).

When I first opened it I disconnected each of the three batteries and measured their voltages which is really the charge state (51.2 volts = 0% / 67.2 volts = 100%). They were reading different voltages which was the first clue. If they are hooked up in parallel they should be equalized (That may be the wrong word, but I don't want to say balanced because that's something different). After replacing the damaged connector, I remeasured the voltages and the third battery was within a couple volts so I just connected and left it overnight. Measured it again the next day and all three batteries measured the same voltage; they had equalized. I'm sure you want batteries pretty close in voltage before you hook them up together. I didn't worry about 2 volts difference though (maybe I should have) :).

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21 minutes ago, novazeus said:

these are screenshots after pulling my 18s and 16s off the charger after it turns green. same results with three different brick chargers. @Flora Yuanis trying to figure out why.

18s

Screenshot_20180227-174758

16s

Screenshot_20180227-223513

it’s weird how the app shows 2.9 mph top speed when it hasn’t moved.

Definitely not the +/- 67.2 volts you'd expect to see with 100% charge. Maybe a problem with one of the batteries. I might try disconnecting one battery and charging each one independently. Check the same screen before you hook up the other battery. See if maybe one goes to 100% percent. If so you've isolated your bad battery. I'm no expect on electronics though. It shouldn't hurt anything to charge them separately.   

Really odd that you'd have that problem on two wheels though! It can't be the charger if you've tried 4 of them. Interesting!

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5 minutes ago, Evel_Knievel said:

Definitely not the +/- 67.2 volts you'd expect to see with 100% charge. Maybe a problem with one of the batteries. I might try disconnecting one battery and charging each one independently. Check the same screen before you hook up the other battery. See if maybe one goes to 100% percent. If so you've isolated your bad battery. I'm no expect on electronics though. It shouldn't hurt anything to charge them separately.   

Really odd that you'd have that problem on two wheels though! It can't be the charger if you've tried 4 of them. Interesting!

3 chargers. the two that came with the wheels and after smoking the kingsong chargers somehow using the chargedoctor duo device, i just bought another brick charger off aliexpress. it does exactly the same thing as the kingsong chargers. somebody said the board basically has a voltmeter and that could be giving bad readings. i’ll wait to hear from the engineers at kingsong. 

i left the brick charger on the 18s last night for 16 hours. now i’m gonna let it sit all night and check it tmrw. 

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