gr8ps Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Well, I was 95% sure I would be buying a Gotway Tesla but just pulled the trigger on a 16S. I was hemming and hawing over Gotway's reliability concerns but @EcoDrift's post about the insane failure/reject rate of Gotways sealed the deal for me. I know I'm not your target market but I wanted to thank you for your post there and that I highly respect your opinion, considering the volume of wheels you likely move. I did not want to reward a company that plays so free and loose with end-user safety with my business. Anyways, I was spending too much time researching all these different wheels and I felt like I'd have buyers remorse regardless of which wheel I went with and it was stressing me out. I figured the best way to stop stressing about it was to take the plunge and buy one or the other. Knowing myself, I know I'm not the type to wear a full face helmet and my dental insurance probably wouldn't cover catastrophic damage that a face plant at 30 mph would do to me, not to mention whatever other injuries I'd incur if the wheel cut out on me. If I was younger or on the opposite end of the spectrum, retired with pension/investment income, I may have gone with the Tesla but I still need to work for a living. However, I can't help but feel a little regretful thinking about the 30 mph that could have been; the 22 mph max speed will be a tough pill to swallow. I didn't intend for this to turn into a Gotway bashing thread but man, I really, really wish either Kingsong offerred something similar in power/speed/range with their build quality or that Gotway would up their QA (or quality in general). I look forward to continuing to lurk on this forum. Best regards, gr8ps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Welcome. Did you consider the KingSong 18S of you wanted more speed from a non Gotway wheel? Honestly 30mph is too fast on any Chinese built self balancing unicycle constructed from of the shelf cheap parts, especially as you have an aversion to safety gear. When you fall, not if, you'll reconsider both the speed and gear aspects. Welcome again. The 16S is a great wheel. You'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8ps Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 Thanks for the welcome. Kingsong 18S was never under any real consideration from me. Sitting would be nice but probably wouldn't be too useful in my use case scenario, which is probably pure leisure. Looks more suited to commuting than fun. Also, truth be told, it is ugly as sin. An acquired taste, I'm sure. I don't have an aversion to safety gear, I ride with a bike helmet and wrist guards (probably pick up some knee pads sometime later). I think I would get annoyed by a full face helmet. I also have a fairly large noggin so finding the write full face helmet may prove challenging. This too may change once I realize how fast 22 mph really is. I talk a lot of talk about speed but I probably haven't even topped out my Luffy, which goes maybe 12 mph. It could be I don't feel comfortable going 22 mph but from everything I'm hearing, people seem to outgrow the lower speed limited wheels fairly quick. I don't anticipate growing my wheel collection too much more so I'm trying to get it right the first time. I'm sure something will come down the pipeline that will change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I was fine with my 22 kph Ninebot One E+ for two seasons, and it's still an attractive, capable wheel. My sore calves seem to tell me to ride the Ninebot again, but the speed and power of the Tesla are difficult to resist. You do get used to the higher speed after a while. I've only ridden the Tesla three times in total so I'm still under 40 km total distance on it, but each time I ride I trust the wheel more. On a Gotway that might be a little risky, but hopefully it will continue to perform well. My second choice would have been the KS16S as it's a well regarded wheel. I think the 35 kph speed would be plenty for most trips so likely you aren't missing much zooming to 45 kph and faster. I don't think I would ever cruise at the warning beeps for any length of time. Besides, you have plenty of time to get your ride money's worth out of the KS16S, and by the time you itch for something faster, a new, better Gotway should be out that you can trade up to. A lot changes in just two years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Welcome! I quickly found the 11mph limit on my first wheel too slow, but have been very happy with my KS 22 mph limit. After several months, I have increased my average from 12mph to about 15mph. With starts and stops, you won't be at a constant 22mph, but it won't take long to hit that limit. I think it is a great top speed for me, personally. I highly recommend visiting the safety gear sub forum and deciding on what to wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8ps Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 Took your advice and stocked up on the safety gear. This hobby is quickly getting very expensive. $1300 for the KS 16S. $299 for a Gotway Luffy to learn on. Spent ~$70 on a bike helmet and wrist guards. Decided I like my teeth too much for a regular bike helmet so I bought a full faced one. Add some knee pads, elbow bads, and gloves and it's another $232 bucks out the window. No wonder why this forum is only filled with older dudes. I'm in my mid thirties and the only reason why I think I can afford to do this is no kids. I've become very good at going forward with the Kingsong. SOoooooooooooOo much more easier to ride than the Luffy and so much easier on the shins. Now on to master going backwards. Already made some good progress today, can consistently go back about 15 feet or so. Hope to get it down within the next day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 22 hours ago, gr8ps said: Took your advice and stocked up on the safety gear. This hobby is quickly getting very expensive. $1300 for the KS 16S. $299 for a Gotway Luffy to learn on. Spent ~$70 on a bike helmet and wrist guards. Decided I like my teeth too much for a regular bike helmet so I bought a full faced one. Add some knee pads, elbow bads, and gloves and it's another $232 bucks out the window. No wonder why this forum is only filled with older dudes. I'm in my mid thirties and the only reason why I think I can afford to do this is no kids. I've become very good at going forward with the Kingsong. SOoooooooooooOo much more easier to ride than the Luffy and so much easier on the shins. Now on to master going backwards. Already made some good progress today, can consistently go back about 15 feet or so. Hope to get it down within the next day or two. Backward riding in a day or two - to be young again Glad you bought the full-face helmet because you earlier implied that was only necessary with the Tesla. I assure that with some bad luck, a faceplant at 5-mph could be severe. I still need to get a full-face helmet myself Enjoy your KS16S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/19/2017 at 8:36 AM, gr8ps said: This hobby is quickly getting very expensive. it's another $232 bucks out the window. No wonder why this forum is only filled with older dudes. I'm in my mid thirties and the only reason why I think I can afford to do this is no kids. 1 Congrats on the KS16S . I love mine. I'm hoping too that I don't get Tesla Envy, or ACM2 envy, but having wiped out at KS14c speeds, I'm in hurry to repeat it at higher speeds. 35kph should be fine. Why did you feel you had to spend so much on gear? I bought shin guards last night for about $12, (to start practicing one legged) and a complete set of wrist, knee, and elbow pads for less than $20. Those pads have served me well for over a year. Just last week I was persuaded by this forum that basic wrist guards were not good enough so I ponied up for some Flexmeters (double) just like our resident go-to guy @Marty Backe . Let me tell you, they are no better than the cheapos I already have. Probably worse. Just where you need them to be stiff to resist over-extension of the wrist, they've got these f-ing slots cut in to ADD flexing. And both stringers are more flexible than my cheapo inline skating set. Honestly, that's $75 wasted in my opinion. Expensive isn't always better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 That Luffy was superfluous, could have learnt on your 16S. Just a little padding needed. Also, while I fully understand your point, please don't complain about U.S. prices. You can easily add 50% to any price, and then this is what we Euros have to live withWheels and accessories. Enjoy your ride! Yes, you could have bought a Tesla, but after the first problem/hardware failure the lost trust really can suck the fun out of riding. This is just a real risk with GWs. Won't happen with your 16S, and it's fast enough for a first wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Smoother said: Congrats on the KS16S . I love mine. I'm hoping too that I don't get Tesla Envy, or ACM2 envy, but having wiped out at KS14c speeds, I'm in hurry to repeat it at higher speeds. 35kph should be fine. Why did you feel you had to spend so much on gear? I bought shin guards last night for about $12, (to start practicing one legged) and a complete set of wrist, knee, and elbow pads for less than $20. Those pads have served me well for over a year. Just last week I was persuaded by this forum that basic wrist guards were not good enough so I ponied up for some Flexmeters (double) just like our resident go-to guy @Marty Backe . Let me tell you, they are no better than the cheapos I already have. Probably worse. Just where you need them to be stiff to resist over-extension of the wrist, they've got these f-ing slots cut in to ADD flexing. And both stringers are more flexible than my cheapo inline skating set. Honestly, that's $75 wasted in my opinion. Expensive isn't always better. They are called "Flexmeters" for a reason. If you believe the marketing (you obviously don't), they are designed flex so that not all of the impact energy travels up your arm to possibly break your upper arm instead of the wrist. I'm curious, did you read any of the 'science' behind these before you laid down the cash to buy them. Sorry that I cost you $75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: That Luffy was superfluous, could have learnt on your 16S. Just a little padding needed. Also, while I fully understand your point, please don't complain about U.S. prices. You can easily add 50% to any price, and then this is what we Euros have to live withWheels and accessories. Enjoy your ride! Yes, you could have bought a Tesla, but after the first problem/hardware failure the lost trust really can suck the fun out of riding. This is just a real risk with GWs. Won't happen with your 16S, and it's fast enough for a first wheel. That's a bit of a strong statement. Any wheel can fail, including KingSong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: They are called "Flexmeters" for a reason. If you believe the marketing (you obviously don't), they are designed flex so that not all of the impact energy travels up your arm to possibly break your upper arm instead of the wrist. I'm curious, did you read any of the 'science' behind these before you laid down the cash to buy them. Sorry that I cost you $75 No, I read nothing, and I don't blame you; others were proclaiming their magnificence. I have a degree in Marketing from U.T. Austin so I know a little about the bulls%*t that passes for science, in ad copy. Having straight armed myself many years ago falling off inline skates, I can confirm the pain was brutal for a minute or two, but then it went away. But that was a straight shot from the base of my palm to my shoulder, through my locked elbow. Having over flexed my wrist (even with guards on) falling off my 14c, since the pain lasted several days, and the complications of damaging a complex joint like the wrist is high, I would gladly take less wrist flex when the leverage is created further down the palm than the base. These Flexmasters flex more than the cheapos I was wearing when I had that fall, and I wasn't happy then that an injury was caused, however slight it turned out to be. But who knows, a few more joules of force and my wrist may have broken. I'll find a way to beef them up, somehow. ONE nice thing, they are nice and snug when worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Smoother said: No, I read nothing, and I don't blame you; others were proclaiming their magnificence. I have a degree in Marketing from U.T. Austin so I know a little about the bulls%*t that passes for science, in ad copy. Having straight armed myself many years ago falling off inline skates, I can confirm the pain was brutal for a minute or two, but then it went away. But that was a straight shot from the base of my palm to my shoulder, through my locked elbow. Having over flexed my wrist (even with guards on) falling off my 14c, since the pain lasted several days, and the complications of damaging a complex joint like the wrist is high, I would gladly take less wrist flex when the leverage is created further down the palm than the base. These Flexmasters flex more than the cheapos I was wearing when I had that fall, and I wasn't happy then that an injury was caused, however slight it turned out to be. But who knows, a few more joules of force and my wrist may have broken. I'll find a way to beef them up, somehow. ONE nice thing, they are nice and snug when worn. You could wrap a couple more velcro strips around them, might take some of the flex out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, steve454 said: You could wrap a couple more velcro strips around them, might take some of the flex out of them. Thanks, they are as tight as you like. I think I'll find some quality shoe horns, and mount them inside the flexy upper hard shell. Shoe horns even have a nice curve to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8ps Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 15 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Backward riding in a day or two - to be young again Glad you bought the full-face helmet because you earlier implied that was only necessary with the Tesla. I assure that with some bad luck, a faceplant at 5-mph could be severe. I still need to get a full-face helmet myself Enjoy your KS16S Well, learning to ride backwards was the plan but I ended up getting sick with the flu/cold. There is a nice, flat, pedestrian tunnel with low traffic under a road where I practiced and I think that helped a lot. No audience which takes off some of the pressure/embarrassment, nice smooth concrete floor so minimal damage to the wheel and nice smooth walls to support yourself. I went with a regular helmet initially because monkey see, monkey do. Most the youtubers I saw, yourself included (watched a lot of your videos during my research phase, they were very helpful, thanks!), wore regular helmets and some didn't wear any protective gear. I changed my mind once I unlocked the top speed of the wheel and felt firsthand how fast it was. I caught myself putting my hands in my pocket to keep it warm, I can only imagine how bad a fall would be with my hands in my pocket. 11 hours ago, Smoother said: Why did you feel you had to spend so much on gear? I bought shin guards last night for about $12, (to start practicing one legged) and a complete set of wrist, knee, and elbow pads for less than $20. Those pads have served me well for over a year. Just last week I was persuaded by this forum that basic wrist guards were not good enough so I ponied up for some Flexmeters (double) just like our resident go-to guy @Marty Backe . Let me tell you, they are no better than the cheapos I already have. Probably worse. Just where you need them to be stiff to resist over-extension of the wrist, they've got these f-ing slots cut in to ADD flexing. And both stringers are more flexible than my cheapo inline skating set. Honestly, that's $75 wasted in my opinion. Expensive isn't always better. Buy once, buy right? To be honest, I had some cheapo's in my basket but I didn't want a repeat of what I went through with the helmet where I ended up buying two. Plus the reviews were pretty good for the ones I ended up buying and they looked like they could take a beating. 22 mph feels slow in a car but doing the same speed on an EUC makes you appreciate how much damage could be done to you lost control. Like everyone says, it is a matter of when, not if, you are going to crash/fall. I didn't want to cheap out on a few bucks today and regret it later on. 8 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: That Luffy was superfluous, could have learnt on your 16S. Just a little padding needed. Also, while I fully understand your point, please don't complain about U.S. prices. You can easily add 50% to any price, and then this is what we Euros have to live withWheels and accessories. Enjoy your ride! Yes, you could have bought a Tesla, but after the first problem/hardware failure the lost trust really can suck the fun out of riding. This is just a real risk with GWs. Won't happen with your 16S, and it's fast enough for a first wheel. I don't think it was superfluous. There was a very real chance I may not have even enjoyed euc's in the first place so it let me try out the hobby for cheap and learn how to ride as well. If I didn't like it, I was only out a couple hundred. The first hour was very frustrating, mounting that thing without holding anything is so difficult, even now. Not the best wheel to learn on but I laid that thing down so many times. My friend learned on it as well. I will say that if you can handle yourself on a small wheel, the mid size ones seem much more stable and easier to ride, by comparison. As far as pricing, yeah, you guys get it in the shaft. But hey, at least you have universal healthcare. Agree with you on the Tesla. It is a shame about Gotway's build quality. Those shell blowouts - whew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I’ve moved the long discussion on just how bad (or otherwise) the US health system is to as it had absolutely nothing to do with the KS-16, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8ps Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 Well, about 30 meters backwards so far has been my personal best. I think a few days away from the unicycle helped. Wheel bit me pretty hard though today and drew blood. Also, my Kingsong app is displaying Chinese all of a sudden. Anyone know how to turn it back into English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubadragonsan Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 If you are not sure which one to get--KingSong or Gotway? A simple solution: Get both, a different one for a different occasion. Seldom we are, as it appears with most wheel riders, satisfied with just one wheel. I started with KS 16, then Gotway 18 and now KS 18S. Men's hobbies, like clothes shopping for women, have no financial boundaries. We justify our purchases only when we don't want them bad enough. I personally prefer KingSong because it's better built and more features. Speed is not my primary deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranium Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I've been on the fence between the Tesla and 16S as well. I'm not a speed demon so the 16S is plenty fast. I do like the additional power of the Tesla just because I'm a heavier rider (220 lbs or 100 kg) but the 1200W is no slouch. I've had multiple failures on the Ninebot E+ & P and had terrible customer service so I'm done with that brand. I want something that will allow me to go over bumps and off curbs without a power surge burning up Mosfets. I need something that will be reliable which is why the KS brand appears to be most appealing to me. I also don't want to step up to an 18" wheel at this point. Anyone have any reason a KS 16S wouldn't be better than a GW Tesla for me? Or any other suggestions for models to consider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 21 minutes ago, Cranium said: I've been on the fence between the Tesla and 16S as well. I'm not a speed demon so the 16S is plenty fast. I do like the additional power of the Tesla just because I'm a heavier rider (220 lbs or 100 kg) but the 1200W is no slouch. I've had multiple failures on the Ninebot E+ & P and had terrible customer service so I'm done with that brand. I want something that will allow me to go over bumps and off curbs without a power surge burning up Mosfets. I need something that will be reliable which is why the KS brand appears to be most appealing to me. I also don't want to step up to an 18" wheel at this point. Anyone have any reason a KS 16S wouldn't be better than a GW Tesla for me? Or any other suggestions for models to consider? I've never heard of MOSFETs burning up due to bumps or curbs so maybe that's an unfounded concern. If your number one priority is reliability then buy a KingSong. Different number one priorities would have you buying a Gotway, but I sense that you want to play it more conservatively. The KS16S is a great wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 45 minutes ago, Cranium said: I've been on the fence between the Tesla and 16S as well. I'm not a speed demon so the 16S is plenty fast. I do like the additional power of the Tesla just because I'm a heavier rider (220 lbs or 100 kg) but the 1200W is no slouch. I've had multiple failures on the Ninebot E+ & P and had terrible customer service so I'm done with that brand. I want something that will allow me to go over bumps and off curbs without a power surge burning up Mosfets. I need something that will be reliable which is why the KS brand appears to be most appealing to me. I also don't want to step up to an 18" wheel at this point. Anyone have any reason a KS 16S wouldn't be better than a GW Tesla for me? Or any other suggestions for models to consider? You may find this post interesting: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranium Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I've never heard of MOSFETs burning up due to bumps or curbs so maybe that's an unfounded concern. If your number one priority is reliability then buy a KingSong. Different number one priorities would have you buying a Gotway, but I sense that you want to play it more conservatively. The KS16S is a great wheel. I've had 3 failures on Ninebots. 1 on an E+ and 2 on a P. Two of the failures were found to be Mosfets (I was able to test them). The third I'm not sure what the failure was yet because I haven't taken it apart to troubleshoot. The first failure happened as I was going off the transition from my driveway to the asphalt. I typically tried to unload my weight on the transition to make it smoother but perhaps my timing was a bit off causing a surge....not sure but it died on my sending me to ground with only minor scrapes since I wasn't even going that fast. I've also had the ninebot die going up a 2" transition in a sidewalk where I didn't unload enough and it just died on overcurrent protection (no mosfet failure here though). It wouldn't even turn back on for a while but eventually did. The second failure was from multiple Mosfets frying and causing a short across motor windings. So I would like reliability....but also quality. If the battery life is the only issue from Kingsong, I would be willing to make my own pack as it starts to die. I was considering getting a spot welder and make a replacement pack for my son's E+ anyhow (he has over 1000 miles on his). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, Cranium said: I've had 3 failures on Ninebots. 1 on an E+ and 2 on a P. Two of the failures were found to be Mosfets (I was able to test them). The third I'm not sure what the failure was yet because I haven't taken it apart to troubleshoot. The first failure happened as I was going off the transition from my driveway to the asphalt. I typically tried to unload my weight on the transition to make it smoother but perhaps my timing was a bit off causing a surge....not sure but it died on my sending me to ground with only minor scrapes since I wasn't even going that fast. I've also had the ninebot die going up a 2" transition in a sidewalk where I didn't unload enough and it just died on overcurrent protection (no mosfet failure here though). It wouldn't even turn back on for a while but eventually did. The second failure was from multiple Mosfets frying and causing a short across motor windings. So I would like reliability....but also quality. If the battery life is the only issue from Kingsong, I would be willing to make my own pack as it starts to die. I was considering getting a spot welder and make a replacement pack for my son's E+ anyhow (he has over 1000 miles) This seems a little weird, that a slow speed bump could fry the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Cranium said: I've had 3 failures on Ninebots. 1 on an E+ and 2 on a P. Two of the failures were found to be Mosfets (I was able to test them). The third I'm not sure what the failure was yet because I haven't taken it apart to troubleshoot. The first failure happened as I was going off the transition from my driveway to the asphalt. I typically tried to unload my weight on the transition to make it smoother but perhaps my timing was a bit off causing a surge....not sure but it died on my sending me to ground with only minor scrapes since I wasn't even going that fast. I've also had the ninebot die going up a 2" transition in a sidewalk where I didn't unload enough and it just died on overcurrent protection (no mosfet failure here though). It wouldn't even turn back on for a while but eventually did. The second failure was from multiple Mosfets frying and causing a short across motor windings. So I would like reliability....but also quality. If the battery life is the only issue from Kingsong, I would be willing to make my own pack as it starts to die. I was considering getting a spot welder and make a replacement pack for my son's E+ anyhow (he has over 1000 miles on his). I didn't realize Ninebots were susceptible to this kind of failure mechanism. I just don't think modern Gotway, KingSong, Inmotion, etc. wheels will blow MOSFETs during typical riding conditions. I'm not aware of battery life issues with KingSong. In general KingSong isn't known for creating long range wheels though. If you're prepared to make your own battery packs than I think you're beyond needing any advice from this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 hours ago, steve454 said: This seems a little weird, that a slow speed bump could fry the wheel. This wasn't exactly a slow speed bump. He was riding very slowly, stopped, and then pushed against the obstacle, creating a large current spike. This essentially happened to me with my Mten3 except the battery connector burned up instead of the MOSFET. I now conclude that it's best to avoid all low-speed & high-torque situations with our wheels. You're just asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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