MTen on order!

[Scully]

12 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

That is unless we can all utilise "Scully's custom paint" service? 

Sounds like it would be only fair. 
 

[Meng Yang]

@Marty Backe  What would be the equivalent speed (sensation wise) on your Tesla when you're cruising at 25 km/h on your MTen3? 

 

Reason for asking is that come 2018, the authorities here are gonna send out officers with speed guns to parks and walkways to catch mobility device users going above 25 km/h (the law). So if I'm caught ($3000 + - 3 months jail), I plan to either sell away the Tesla (if not impounded) and buy an MTen3 for some slow speed thrills OR  an Inmotion V5F OR totally give up and go back to riding bicycles.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Meng Yang said:

@Marty Backe  What would be the equivalent speed (sensation wise) on your Tesla when you're cruising at 25 km/h on your MTen3? 

 

Reason for asking is that come 2018, the authorities here are gonna send out officers with speed guns to parks and walkways to catch mobility device users going above 25 km/h (the law). So if I'm caught ($3000 + - 3 months jail), I plan to either sell away the Tesla (if not impounded) and buy an MTen3 for some slow speed thrills OR  an Inmotion V5F OR totally give up and go back to riding bicycles.

25-km/h feels damn fast on the Mten3.  But I hope everything else you said was a joke, otherwise this is very depressing 

[z3n]

2 hours ago, Meng Yang said:

Reason for asking is that come 2018, the authorities here are gonna send out officers with speed guns to parks and walkways to catch mobility device users going above 25 km/h (the law). So if I'm caught ($3000 + - 3 months jail), I plan to either sell away the Tesla (if not impounded) and buy an MTen3 for some slow speed thrills OR  an Inmotion V5F OR totally give up and go back to riding bicycles.

 Any official link to share? Hope this regulation won't affect neighbor countries... 

[Meng Yang]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

25-km/h feels damn fast on the Mten3.  But I hope everything else you said was a joke, otherwise this is very depressing 

Thanks! That's what I wanna hear. 

As the Tesla is so stable at 50 kph, I was hoping the MTen3 could give me the same kind of feeling at 25 kph ... looks like there's still hope (amidst all this gloominess) ...

[Meng Yang]

3 hours ago, z3n said:

 Any official link to share? Hope this regulation won't affect neighbor countries... 

Here you go ...

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/more-e-scooter-users-caught-riding-on-the-road

 

Excepts:

"With the Active Mobility Act in force, users must ensure that PMDs adhere to certain specifications - a maximum weight of 20kg, a width of no more than 700mm and a top speed of 25kmh.

For reckless riders, the LTA and other agencies, such as the National Parks Board, will be given powers to issue summonses that could result in fines of up to $5,000, [and]/or jail terms of up to six months."

"To deal with the menace, the LTA said it has doubled the number of enforcement officers from 24 in June to more than 50 currently. Its officers are also being equipped with speed guns to catch PMD users speeding on public paths."

 

Active Mobility Bill/Law:

https://www.lta.gov.sg/apps/news/page.aspx?c=2&id=2e0d9c1a-55ab-4647-9b08-4cd4ff6d44cb

 

In short, our speeding days are coming to an end soon ..... 

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

But I hope everything else you said was a joke, otherwise this is very depressing 

Well, that's Singapore for you. Joke of a "country". I understand having to keep an ethnically diverse population like there peaceful requires some efforts, given the history. But this has nothing to do with that. Neither has the fact that it's just a corrupt, autocratic dictatorship.

Absolutely no offense to @Meng Yang or anyone else there intended, but that's my opinion. If I had to look for countries I despise more politically, it would have to be China or North Korea.

3 hours ago, z3n said:

 Any official link to share? Hope this regulation won't affect neighbor countries... 

I don't think that will spread to neighboring countries, stuff like that just a Singapore thing.

[Meng Yang]

12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Well, that's Singapore for you. Joke of a "country". I understand having to keep an ethnically diverse population like there peaceful requires some efforts, given the history. But this has nothing to do with that. Neither has the fact that it's just a corrupt, autocratic dictatorship.

Absolutely no offense to @Meng Yang or anyone else there intended, but that's my opinion. If I had to look for countries I despise more politically, it would have to be China or North Korea.

I don't think that will spread to neighboring countries, stuff like that just a Singapore thing.

Well, we always say Singapore is a "fine" country coz anyone stepping out of line will always be "fined" $$$ handsomely.  But since I'm not well-versed in politics etc., I'll just say I'm happy the various races and religious groups get along fine, and I feel safe with no guns around; and I'm happy to leave the Police to deal with any crime issues (on my/our behalf).

Neighboring countries should be safe from our "infections". An example would be the banning of chewing gums - this law seems to stick only where it started. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Well, yes, I see your point. Also I missed countries like Saudi Arabia, would be unfair to consider Singapore worse than that (they both whip/cane people, though).

But from a purely political standpoint, I judge by how easy or impossible it would be to achieve serious changes to the system (aka here, stuff against the financial interests of the ruling family and the affiliated real estate mafia etc.). And since you can't vote and I'm assuming freedom of press would be nonexistant ("inciting unrest etc") once you actually get too close too comfort to actual decisive changes happening, Singapore is really low on my list there.

Anyways, that's it for me on the topic.

[Keith]

59 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

Neighboring countries should be safe from our "infections". An example would be the banning of chewing gums - this law seems to stick only where it started. 

Well it would stick wherever it was wouldn’t it? 

As to policing speed. I have to say in many respects, if you think about it, it is overdue really.

Whether you agree with it or not and regardless of how “free” to do as you wish you feel society should be, the bottom line is that most, if not all countries,have for very many years had quite clear laws on motorbikes, the needs for licences, insurance, vehicle plates, etc.etc. Often the power and/ or maximum speed of the vehicle defines what “class” of licensing is required ( really based at least loosely on how much danger to other users it is) In the UK, for example, we have clearly defined different requirements for Motorbikes, Mopeds, and electric bikes and I believe most of Europe (at least) do as well?

As Personal Electric Vehicles get more popular they are going to catch the eyes of the establishment and it is only going to take one or two nasty accidents involving uninsured vehicles before the population (or at least the red top newspapers) start clambering for action about it, especially once they discover some of them are more powerful and faster than motorbikes and appear to have no brakes! (Witness the cyclist jailed recently here for the death of a woman whilst riding a fixed wheel track bike, without front brakes on the public road:https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian). As a result of this one accident, government is trying to push though a new cycling law, there are, at most 2 deaths per year involving cyclists and pedestrians, few of which have ever resulted in prosecution compared with hundreds involving cars and pedestrians, yet this one incident is going to result in law change.

To be honest, having defined and policed maximum speed limits would be a good result as the far easier option is for governments to simply ban anything that is still only done by a minority. 

[Smoother]

9 hours ago, Meng Yang said:

officers with speed guns to parks and walkways to catch mobility device users going above 25 km/h (the law).

To put things in perspective, 25kmh is approx. 15mph.  15 mph is the max speed in England for electric bikes.  So, its not that out of line with other countries (except Denmark with their 2018 20kmh rule).  Although I sometimes ride faster than 25kmh, I wouldn't stop riding if 25 was being enforced with radar guns.  I'd just keep a keen eye out for radar gun users.  when wanting to push the rule a little.

EDIT clarification:  15mph is as fast as the electric motor is allowed to be able to push, but nothing says the cyclist can't ride faster if they have the right bike/gears/strength, so only the electric speed max is mandated by law.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Keith said:

<snip>

To be honest, having defined and policed maximum speed limits would be a good result as the far easier option is for governments to simply ban anything that is still only done by a minority. 

I can't disagree with speed limits, but what I dislike is this 'artificially' low limit applied to EUCs and not bicyclists. Are EUC's more dangerous to pedestrians than bicycles? Yet maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps all of these countries which are planning EUC speed limits will be applying the same speed to bicycles

[IPS Malta]

To be fair, EUC is more densely concentrated in terms of weight than a bicycle. If an accident is to happen, someone being hit by an EUC needs to absorb all the inertia while a bicycle is most likely to deflect its movement thus there's less absorption of the inertia produced by a bicycle is required.

but on the other hand bicycles can gain more speed, so there's that factor that should limit bicycles to a similar speed limit. Other than that it's illegal to terminate your life (in most countries to my knowledge except by predefined methods, although they can't prosecute you after), so I guess it's probably not appreciated by any government to be get hurt by being irresponsible for riding fast esp when EUCs are prone to throw away the rider on most faults as no redundancy in EUC appears on exist on the current devices. I didn't read the previous comments but I doubt they will monitor speed limits to the word (as someone might have mentioned).

In my home country, we have some roads are particularly narrow and have a speed limit of 5km/h or 10km/h (latter being more likely to what I remember)... my car's speedo starts from 20km/h, so how am I to know that I'm at 5km/h?

[Keith]

26 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I can't disagree with speed limits, but what I dislike is this 'artificially' low limit applied to EUCs and not bicyclists. Are EUC's more dangerous to pedestrians than bicycles? Yet maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps all of these countries which are planning EUC speed limits will be applying the same speed to bicycles

Absolutely, and funny enough I had meant to ask @Meng Yang whether the police would also be targeting bicycles as well but it slipped my mind?

Certainly, when I was younger, fitter and used to ride into central London I would regularly slipstream the buses. Flat fronted double decker things that they are, they would drag me along at 30 MPH easily as the separate bus and cycle lane meant a nice clear run. It is both ironic and daft that an electric bike is limited to half that speed.

In the picking the lesser of two evil stakes, I’d certainly much rather be hit by an EUC then a bike.

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, IPS Malta said:

To be fair, EUC is more densely concentrated in terms of weight than a bicycle. If an accident is to happen, someone being hit by an EUC needs to absorb all the inertia while a bicycle is most likely to deflect its movement thus there's less absorption of the inertia produced by a bicycle is required.

but on the other hand bicycles can gain more speed, so there's that factor that should limit bicycles to a similar speed limit. Other than that it's illegal to terminate your life (in most countries to my knowledge except by predefined methods, although they can't prosecute you after), so I guess it's probably not appreciated by any government to be get hurt by being irresponsible for riding fast esp when EUCs are prone to throw away the rider on most faults as no redundancy in EUC appears on exist on the current devices. I didn't read the previous comments but I doubt they will monitor speed limits to the word (as someone might have mentioned).

In my home country, we have some roads are particularly narrow and have a speed limit of 5km/h or 10km/h (latter being more likely to what I remember)... my car's speedo starts from 20km/h, so how am I to know that I'm at 5km/h?

Damn the government. Keep them out of my life as much as possible. I don't need them to protect me from myself. If that's the attitude we will all eventually had to live our lives in a padded room so that we never hurt ourselves 

[Keith]

4 minutes ago, IPS Malta said:

In my home country, we have some roads are particularly narrow and have a speed limit of 5km/h or 10km/h (latter being more likely to what I remember)... my car's speedo starts from 20km/h, so how am I to know that I'm at 5km/h?

True, but only in Malta have I ever gone down roads where I needed to fold both wing mirrors in to clear the high stone walls on both sides of the road, and in a small compact car at that. I tried to take a photo of it one time until I realised I couldn’t actually get out of the car to take a photo. Thank heavens I didn’t break down or meet anything coming the other way! Still, quite a lot of the smaller roads there have that perfect speed control built into them already - huge potholes! I’m always very glad I’m in a hire car when I drive there!

[IPS Malta]

well, they are not to that extreme, but the thinking behind it (IMO) is that you're a weight to the health sector if you're sick, hurt ... or failed to what I mentioned before. It's a waste of money to have sick and unproductive people, no matter if the health sector is privatized or gov subsidized. At least this is how I see it why they have to set such regulations.

 

 

[Smoother]

Just now, IPS Malta said:

well, they are not to that extreme, but the thinking behind it (IMO) is that you're a weight to the health sector if you're sick, hurt ... or failed to what I mentioned before. It's a waste of money to have sick and unproductive people, no matter if the health sector is privatized or gov subsidized. At least this is how I see it why they have to set such regulations.

 

 

Nah! I don't think so.  If that were the case they would outlaw, smoking, sugary drinks,  candy, chocolate, hydrogenated oils, high-fat foods, and motorcycles.  Beurocrats are mostly people who have no idea what normal people want.  They create laws left and right without fully considering the ramifications.

one example.  Here in England, an unemployed single mother with one child has a higher priority on the local council's housing list, than a single woman. A woman with 4 children has a higher priority still.  Do you see where I'm going here?  Really? because bureaucrats couldn't.  An unemployed (and unemployable) woman I knew (not personally I hasten to add) openly stated that she continues to have children, solely to move up the housing list. The present government is trying to cap benefits to abusers like this.  But before now, it has been that way for decades.

[IPS Malta]

was like that in my country, but there's great progress each year (not always to the better but it is there). Foods and consumptions are being addressed to younger ones through education, older generations are harder to change (coming to think of it these problems didn't show up much on older generations. Could it be because new challenges arise through progress?).  Motorcycles were promoted by the government, but to sort out cars and traffic problems and again reduce wasted time(which resulted in more motorcycle accidents being heard of. Maybe something was wrong planned, but imagine quarter of the population stuck in traffic 15 mins more how much it might affect the overall productivity) People living on undeserved social welfare are nowadays lacking in their quality of life of or getting their extras illegally (which will not be difficult for the authorities to figure this out and adapt)
This is my last comment on this as it went way off topic, but it's something nice to discuss.

to get back on topic, although I am fine with my 20km/hr and rarely hit my speed limit beep on my bumblebee, I do find occasions that I look for my old 25/27 km/h just for the pleasure of the instance reaching them.

[Meng Yang]

1 hour ago, Keith said:

Absolutely, and funny enough I had meant to ask @Meng Yang whether the police would also be targeting bicycles as well but it slipped my mind?

Certainly, when I was younger, fitter and used to ride into central London I would regularly slipstream the buses. Flat fronted double decker things that they are, they would drag me along at 30 MPH easily as the separate bus and cycle lane meant a nice clear run. It is both ironic and daft that an electric bike is limited to half that speed.

In the picking the lesser of two evil stakes, I’d certainly much rather be hit by an EUC then a bike.

In Singapore, the police are normally more forgiving for cyclists unless they've caused an accident or are caught riding on expressways. Bicycles are allowed on roads but not PMDs (personal mobility devices that includes EUCs but excludes bicycles). Thus, cyclists can draft moving trucks and buses all they want. On cycle paths and walkways, I've never heard of cyclists being pull-over for speeding. I'm afraid the same can't be said of speeding PMDs come 2018. See, there's been cases of death and injuries related to PMDs (mainly e-scooters) in the past year since acceptance of the bill for mobility devices. The general population is NOT HAPPY! Come 2018, when the law takes effect, its a given the police will target PMDs at the parks and walkways, as well as on the roads. Even if we are not speeding, our 25+ kph-capable EUCs are already by definition, illegal. Let's see how long I can enjoy my ride till my luck runs out.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

 Mount this baby on your Tesla and be the envy of all riders!

https://www.radarbusters.com/Escort-Max-360-Radar-Detector-p/passport-max360.htm

 

[Meng Yang]

So I guess this gadget works for speed guns ahead and behind you, but doesn't work for those to your sides?  Or does it work all around 360, including police up top on bridges and towers?

[Smoother]

18 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

So I guess this gadget works for speed guns ahead and behind you, but doesn't work for those to your sides?  Or does it work all around 360, including police up top on bridges and towers?

Worried about radar from the rear? you need one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Valentine-One-V1-V1-Radar-Warner/dp/B000U89KGW

I used to have one and its amazing.  Come to think of it, I can't remember what happened to it.  It tracks multiple signals at once, etc, etc, and last time I checked it was the only detector with a dedicated rear facing detector (as well as the front one of course).

RADAR FROM THE SIDE? No such thing.  While someone can shoot you with radar from the side, the reading will be worthless, and considerably less than your actual speed, assuming there is any towards/away component to your trajectory, relative to their position. Cop in a side, road? no problem, unless they then step out into your road, and shoot you from behind.