King Song 18S

[mezzanine]

I am anxiously awaiting the delivery of a KS18S right now and couldn't help but prematurely start a review thread in an effort to channel some of my excitement.  For the second time, I've been caught off-guard because the wheel arrived earlier than I expected.  In a way this is positive because I haven't been able to obsess quite as heavily as I otherwise would have by checking the tracking all the time. 

My first wheel has been the Inmotion V8 that I imagine I must have around 500km on in around a month and a half of ownership.  I've been satisfied that my decision on a first wheel was the right one for my usage.  I was worried before I received it about the most common complain about the V8; the range.  Fortunately, this hasn't been nearly the issue that I thought it might be.  Most of my trips are short and that makes the convenience features of the V8, especially the weight, as someone who lives in a second floor apartment, an excellent city wheel.  I was very hesitant about the idea of getting another wheel because I figured I will fall into the habit of going for the V8 due to laziness over time.   

Why go with the KS18S then?  Even though I didn't feel in a rush to buy a second wheel, when I looked at the market, the advantages to waiting six months for the 18L or Ninebot Z series started to decrease in my mind.  I'm confident I'll own a Z10 at some point in the future, but not for at least a year.  I see that the rumour is that the release date has been pushed to back to April. 

That leaves the MSuper and KS18S in currently available 18" wheels.  I initially was interested in the MSuper, and feel fairly confident that if I got one now that it would be a reliable machine, but I'll admit that the issues over the last year caused me to hesitate.  Eventually the ability to sit became a minor obsession for me after watching @houseofjob ride his Monster.  I read @KingSong69 's review of his KS18S and the quality of the Sports series caused me to look at this awkward shell design in a new light.  

So now it's 7am eastern time and I'm staring as the clock and refreshing the tracking to see if I should be getting the wheel around noon.  Luckily I'm off today and can devote myself to this entirely!  This wheel is an ewheels KS18S 1680wh model in black.  I plan to paint my new wheel with plasti dip and will post some pictures when I get around to it, but until then I'll update here with my thoughts on the new ride.   

 

[WARPed1701D]

Great decision IMO. The 18S would be my choice too right now.  The 18L is too ugly and while Gotway is improving the Tesla still shows some quality issues I'm not happy with. With unbranded pads and black speaker grills the 18S is a very sleek looking machine. I feel it is the best upgrade from a V8 right now as you get more motor power, more parallel battery packs, and a larger wheel without compromising on build quality and reliability over the V8.  You can add a trolley handle with some degree of acceptable aesthetics. I just wish KS would add the kill switch. I'm very interested in the Z10 but if I were looking now the release date would be too far away and even then I wouldn't want to be an early adopter meaning maybe fall 2018 before I could pull the trigger on it IF I could afford it.

[mezzanine]

31 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Great decision IMO. The 18S would be my choice too right now.  The 18L is too ugly and while Gotway is improving the Tesla still shows some quality issues I'm not happy with. With unbranded pads and black speaker grills the 18S is a very sleek looking machine. I feel it is the best upgrade from a V8 right now as you get more motor power, more parallel battery packs, and a larger wheel without compromising on build quality and reliability over the V8.  You can add a trolley handle with some degree of acceptable aesthetics. I just wish KS would add the kill switch. I'm very interested in the Z10 but if I were looking now the release date would be too far away and even then I wouldn't want to be an early adopter meaning maybe fall 2018 before I could pull the trigger on it IF I could afford it.

 

I had to smile when I saw you recently express your positive view on the 18S.  It's really nice to know there's someone out there whose reasoning has proven similar and arrived at the same conclusions, independently. 

For me, the 18L doesn't represent a upgrade over the 18S, despite the 84v system.  I can easily understand how it would be more appealing to the average EUCer than the 18S, but even if they were both available on the market for the same price right now, I think I'd probably end up going for the 18S for the ability to sit. 

The bigger temptation was to wait for the Z series.  I'm convinced the wide tubeless tire design will be a big improvement in ride comfort.  My fear, though, is that it's going to be super expensive.  I could see the Z10 being $2500 even direct from Aliexpress.  Hopefully I'm off base on that and it's around $2k, but I've got a lot of uncertainty on how much it's going to end up costing.  I would love for Ninebot to release a 16" version a year from now with a 3" wide tubeless tire and a smaller form factor, but even if Ninebot doesn't, I'm expecting we're going to see the other major manufacturers move in that direct shortly.   

I ordered a trolley from China that is cheap and has been used by a couple of other members.  I may harass KS69 into hooking me up with one of those german trolleys that he uses that are unavailable here if the China one is garbage. 

I'm excited to paint the KS18S.  I'm going to try plasti dip and am hoping to get it painted and get some pictures posted in the next couple weeks. 

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I am anxiously awaiting the delivery of a KS18S right now

Uuuh, nice! Congratulations. I would not mind one, either.

The form factor vs. the V8 will also give you a big variety in wheel behavior (as opposed to wheels driving similarly).

[mezzanine]

13 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Uuuh, nice! Congratulations. I would not mind one, either.

The form factor vs. the V8 will also give you a big variety in wheel behavior (as opposed to wheels driving similarly).

Yeah, the variety in form factor was a consideration in deciding on a second wheel.  It seems obvious to get two very different wheels, and yet I got cold feet at one point and questioned that logic because I find the V8 so well-suited to my needs.  I thought maybe I should get a KS16S instead because it's lighter and has an integrated trolley and is more similar to the V8.  

I'm hoping what you observed in the Photo thread will be true in my case and that I'll find that with the additional range and power that I may find my usage change with the option to travel 100km+ on a charge.    

[meepmeepmayer]

9 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I'm hoping what you observed in the Photo thread will be true in my case and that I'll find that with the additional range and power that I may find my usage change with the option to travel 100km+ on a charge.    

Well, how often have you stopped riding because you had to (battery) vs. how often did you stop because you wanted to?

What may also be possible, once you have been riding the super stable and comfortable 18S, you'll go back to the V8 and wonder how you could ever ride that wobbly thing. 

--

Hnnnng this thread makes me want an 18S again. It would be the replacement for my ACM that I can actually trust on mountain rides (certainly hope so), and now with the alternative (18L) being so ugly and higher capacity versions uncertain...  it's just that even 1680Wh is a little slim if more was possible.

Enjoy yours!

[mezzanine]

13 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Well, how often have you stopped riding because you had to (battery) vs. how often did you stop because you wanted to?

What may also be possible, once you have been riding the super stable and comfortable 18S, you'll go back to the V8 and wonder how you could ever ride that wobbly thing. 

--

Hnnnng this thread makes me want an 18S again. It would be the replacement for my ACM that I can actually trust on mountain rides (certainly hope so), and now with the alternative (18L) being so ugly and higher capacity versions uncertain...  it's just that even 1680Wh is a little slim if more was possible.

Enjoy yours!

I haven't run into the problem of limited range too often on the V8, but I don't often use the V8 just for pleasure riding, whereas I expect I'll use the 18S more for exploring and fun rides.  I'm hoping the extra stability will be helpful now that winter is coming and I'm still entertaining the idea of using the EUC during the colder months when there will be snow.  I initially thought the extra battery capacity would be useful for combating the effect of cold on battery performance, but I'm guessing that won't be the issue I thought it might be. 

There's so much unused space in the shell design of the 18S that I can understand why you'd wish they would offer larger capacity options. 

Your comment that I may find the 18S just a superior overall wheel and prefer it for it's ride characteristics is ultimately why I decided to bite the bullet.  There was a rider on the french forum who has both a V8 and 18S and his experience was something similar to that. 

 

[Bambino]

3 hours ago, mezzanine said:

This wheel is an ewheels KS18S 1680wh model in black.

You made a goog choice...Welcome!!!!

 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

I would not call it biting the bullet, that has a negative connotation, right?

I think you'll be surprised how much better overall this wheel is to ride (pure guess, haven't tried one). I certainly learned to appreciate how easy, mind-controlly and natural the ACM feels compared to the V8. Not to shit on the V8, but I rode it for an hour (so no real experience), and it's so thin and wobbly, it feels like you're balancing something all the time (well you are). Might very well be why you never went for more exploratory rides with your V8. No comparison to a heavy, stable and direction-maintaining wheel on which you just stand relaxedly, and that magically follows your thoughts, and you basically forget it exists (@LanghamP described Gotways like this in another thread, and it seems to be true. My guess is the 18S will be similar.).

So, any new (heavier/bigger battery and more powerful) wheel would probably give you quite improved riding. You simply went for one of the options, good decision to upgrade

Try some softer ride modes once you've got used to the wheel. After starting from the very hard V8, these might feel strange, but I'm loving how my ACM is feathered by this.

[LanghamP]

Be mindful switching wheels as 28 mph doesn't feel all that fast until you try accelerating to 24 mph on your V8 (thinking it's 16 mph), with interesting consequences.

There isn't one rider here who owns two wheels who hasn't done that. Not one. 

[electricpen]

I'm still very torn over the 18s vs Msuper for my next wheel. The biggest problem with the 18s for me is I have to bring it indoors into restaurants, classrooms, and occasionally trains and buses. I am worried the shell is too tall to stash away unobtrusively in these scenarios. I also ride through the rain on my commute which is a scenario where Jason recommends the Msuper due to the vents on the top of the 18s. I love the reliability of the KS wheels - I already own a 16s and it has been bulletproof but I do run into range and speed problems often enough to be annoying.

[Bambino]

1 minute ago, electricpen said:

I'm still very torn over the 18s vs Msuper for my next wheel. The biggest problem with the 18s for me is I have to bring it indoors into restaurants, classrooms, and occasionally trains and buses. I am worried the shell is too tall to stash away unobtrusively in these scenarios. I also ride through the rain on my commute which is a scenario where Jason recommends the Msuper due to the vents on the top of the 18s. I love the reliability of the KS wheels - I already own a 16s and it has been bulletproof but I do run into range and speed problems often enough to be annoying.

I use my KS 8s in train and bus... no problem.

The rain, if not to heavy is no problem, because i use the seat to cover the handle...

 

I dont now Msuper, but i like my KS18 very much.

 

 

[LanghamP]

I love my unsold MSuper V3s, so much so that I'm considering just keeping the damned demon wheel. The long and wide footpads, and the upper leg pads (more like cushions) make it oh-so comfortable. I would not even consider sitting on this wheel; it's so comfortable you do not need to.

I absolutely do not recommend standing these big wheels up in a corner. Just lay them down. They are tiny, like clubbed baby seals. People don't notice them if they aren't moving.

You would never use the trolley of the MSuper in crowded places as it's extremely prone to mishaps should anyone touch or brush up against you or your wheel. Gotways don't turn off when they hit their side, so you have some weird weapon-of-mass-destruction that looks like a clubbed baby seal that mated with a Whirling Dervish before it died.

[mezzanine]

Well, things may have taken an ugly turn.  I've been watching for the mail lady to come by so I can swoop in and grab the wheel before I have to wait to pick it up from the post office later tonight.  I decided to refresh the tracking just to check and saw that it had been updated and says that a notice card was left.  Odd, I've been fairly vigilant about watching for any sign of the mail truck.  I go downstairs and there's no notice card. 

I'm hoping that maybe the size/weight of the package has caused this unusual delivery situation.  It's unnerving to have someone claiming they dropped off the only thing that can allow you to pickup your expensive wheel when they didn't and you're fairly sure they never even came by.

[WARPed1701D]

28 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

Well, things may have taken an ugly turn.  I've been watching for the mail lady to come by so I can swoop in and grab the wheel before I have to wait to pick it up from the post office later tonight.  I decided to refresh the tracking just to check and saw that it had been updated and says that a notice card was left.  Odd, I've been fairly vigilant about watching for any sign of the mail truck.  I go downstairs and there's no notice card. 

I'm hoping that maybe the size/weight of the package has caused this unusual delivery situation.  It's unnerving to have someone claiming they dropped off the only thing that can allow you to pickup your expensive wheel when they didn't and you're fairly sure they never even came by.

Stay on the ball with this. I've heard of carrier/distribution center staff stealing packages under similar circumstances. I see no reason why they wouldn't deliver it due to size/weight. I've seen them delivering heavier stuff. Call them. They may be able to contact the driver and see what is going on.

[mezzanine]

3 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Stay on the ball with this. I've heard of carrier/distribution center staff stealing packages under similar circumstances. I see no reason why they wouldn't deliver it due to size/weight. I've seen them delivering heavier stuff. Call them. They may be able to contact the driver and see what is going on.

 

Yeah, I'm growing more uncomfortable with the situation.  This mail carrier delivered my expensive V8 a month ago and I told her all about and she's seen me riding it.  It wouldn't take much in the way of deductive ability to surmise what was in this new package or what it's value might be.  I recognize I'm being paranoid, but the thought does cross your mind.  I'd been planning to wait and revisit things later tonight, but now I may call. 

Ugh.  I woke up early this morning and unexpectedly discovered the delivery would be today and couldn't go back to sleep.  I'm tired now and want to crash. 

[WARPed1701D]

2 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I initially thought the extra battery capacity would be useful for combating the effect of cold on battery performance, but I'm guessing that won't be the issue I thought it might be. 

 

Why do you say this? I always expected more parallel packs to reduce per pack load and so reduced the risk of insufficient power delivery to the motor when under load in cold conditions.

 Also, if you aren't range limited by the V8 then absolutely get a charge doctor so you can run the cells between 75% and 25% state of charge for all but balancing charges. You'll still have more range than the V8 could manage on a full charge and the cells will last forever!

[mezzanine]

2 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Why do you say this? I always expected more parallel packs to reduce per pack load and so reduced the risk of insufficient power delivery to the motor when under load in cold conditions.

 Also, if you aren't range limited by the V8 then absolutely get a charge doctor so you can run the cells between 75% and 25% state of charge for all but balancing charges. You'll still have more range than the V8 could manage on a full charge and the cells will last forever!

Regarding cold weather battery performance, my logic is that the decrease won't be significant because of the short amount of time I will be outdoors.  By the time the battery becomes cold enough to degrade performance, I'll be at my destination. 

I've evolved an organic approach to charging the V8.  I try not to charge it for more than a half hour at a time so I don't forget I have it plugged in, but other than that, I try to stay the 90%-40% range that the charge doctor makes easier to achieve. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

I love my unsold MSuper V3s, so much so that I'm considering just keeping the damned demon wheel. The long and wide footpads, and the upper leg pads (more like cushions) make it oh-so comfortable. I would not even consider sitting on this wheel; it's so comfortable you do not need to.

I absolutely do not recommend standing these big wheels up in a corner. Just lay them down. They are tiny, like clubbed baby seals. People don't notice them if they aren't moving.

You would never use the trolley of the MSuper in crowded places as it's extremely prone to mishaps should anyone touch or brush up against you or your wheel. Gotways don't turn off when they hit their side, so you have some weird weapon-of-mass-destruction that looks like a clubbed baby seal that mated with a Whirling Dervish before it died.

You are so funny @LanghamP, with your love/hate relationship of the MSuper. Face it, this wheel wants you to keep it. 

[LanghamP]

33 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I'm tired now and want to crash. 

Never have truer words been spoken from an EUC owner. 

[mezzanine]

I'm in love. 

I could tell instantly when I got on the wheel that I was going to really like it.  It immediately felt completely natural.  I expected it to be a big upgrade, but it has surpassed my expectations.  I feel it looks better in person, too.  I truly couldn't be more pleased. 

It's pouring rain here, but I wasn't going to let that stop me from getting in my first ride.  The stability is almost shocking coming from the V8, which a few of you hinted at in your comments.  I wasn't expecting it to be so much smoother over rough terrain.  I didn't find turning or stopping as hard to adjust to as I had expected.  It all just felt very natural.  It immediately felt so much safer than the V8. 

One of my biggest concerns was the weight of the KS18S and how difficult it will be lugging it up a couple flights of stairs.  It's actually not as bad as I thought. 

I don't see myself wanting to upgrade again for a very long time.  Where before I was worried I might only want to use my V8 after getting the KS18S, after just one ride I'm thinking it could be the other way around.  @KingSong69 has already made a strong case for this wheel in his review and I can only echo his sentiments, as a first impression.  I'm sure I'll develop a more nuanced view as I get more time with it, but it's everything I was hoping for. 

[eddiemoy]

8 hours ago, electricpen said:

I'm still very torn over the 18s vs Msuper for my next wheel. The biggest problem with the 18s for me is I have to bring it indoors into restaurants, classrooms, and occasionally trains and buses. I am worried the shell is too tall to stash away unobtrusively in these scenarios. I also ride through the rain on my commute which is a scenario where Jason recommends the Msuper due to the vents on the top of the 18s. I love the reliability of the KS wheels - I already own a 16s and it has been bulletproof but I do run into range and speed problems often enough to be annoying.

I can tell you the Msuper trolley handle is pretty much useless.  It is not the correct implementation of a trolley handle on the EUC.  It is towards the rear and Msuper being top heavy doesn't help.  The 18S is not as easy to push around vs the 16S, but I would say it is easier to push than the Msuper.  I love my KS18S!  I hate the Msuper...

[eddiemoy]

29 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I'm in love. 

I could tell instantly when I got on the wheel that I was going to really like it.  It immediately felt completely natural.  I expected it to be a big upgrade, but it has surpassed my expectations.  I feel it looks better in person, too.  I truly couldn't be more pleased. 

It's pouring rain here, but I wasn't going to let that stop me from getting in my first ride.  The stability is almost shocking coming from the V8, which a few of you hinted at in your comments.  I wasn't expecting it to be so much smoother over rough terrain.  I didn't find turning or stopping as hard to adjust to as I had expected.  It all just felt very natural.  It immediately felt so much safer than the V8. 

One of my biggest concerns was the weight of the KS18S and how difficult it will be lugging it up a couple flights of stairs.  It's actually not as bad as I thought. 

I don't see myself wanting to upgrade again for a very long time.  Where before I was worried I might only want to use my V8 after getting the KS18S, after just one ride I'm thinking it could be the other way around.  @KingSong69 has already made a strong case for this wheel in his review and I can only echo his sentiments, as a first impression.  I'm sure I'll develop a more nuanced view as I get more time with it, but it's everything I was hoping for. 

Congrats!  I don't think people know how good the wheel is if they haven't ridden it.  Now you know why the KS18S riders love their wheels so much!   I'm glad you didn't buy the Msuper.  You would have hated it.  Some people can get the riding position immediately, some people need some time.  It took me a couple of days to get the hang of it.  

Enjoy and welcome to the club!

[Meng Yang]

8 hours ago, electricpen said:

I'm still very torn over the 18s vs Msuper for my next wheel. The biggest problem with the 18s for me is I have to bring it indoors into restaurants, classrooms, and occasionally trains and buses. I am worried the shell is too tall to stash away unobtrusively in these scenarios. I also ride through the rain on my commute which is a scenario where Jason recommends the Msuper due to the vents on the top of the 18s. I love the reliability of the KS wheels - I already own a 16s and it has been bulletproof but I do run into range and speed problems often enough to be annoying.

Makes me wonder if the upcoming 18L is also having an open ventilation system like the 18S. If so, then the MSuperV3 will still be a better option for those who use them in wet conditions. Tesla fits me well coz it rains here all the time.

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

Makes me wonder if the upcoming 18L is also having an open ventilation system like the 18S. If so, then the MSuperV3 will still be a better option for those who use them in wet conditions. Tesla fits me well coz it rains here all the time.

The open vents on the top doesn't allow water to go in.  They demo'ed pouring water on top of the vents and it didn't go in.