Statistics service Ecodrift repair KingSong, GotWay, Inmotion (March-July 2017)

[EcoDrift]

Sorry friends for my english. Its google translate. Its a very big topic to make it by their knowledge. If somebody can do better - use original http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=51168.msg1199893#msg1199893

P.S. The recall company for Gotway is not included. Therefore, statistics on the Got are slightly larger in reality.

Means further I shall be guided by such logic:
I will take the number of sales from February to July (take the month of February as a spare, since some devices could first travel)
Wheels will be loaded according to the following logic - inmoshen v5, v5f - one wheel; v3c, v3pro, v3s - one wheel, msuper680 and 820 - one wheel, acm680 and 820 - one wheel and tp.
Conclusions look at the very bottom of B-)

March

GotWay
1. ACM 680 - does not turn on - controller replacement
2. ACM 680 - does not turn on - button replacement
3. MCM4 - do not peep - replace the peeple
4. MSuper1600 - does not turn on - motor replacement, replacement of the controller
5. MCM4 - the wheel twitches - the soldering logic
6. Msuper1680 - does not turn on - controller replacement
7. Msuper1680 - burned-out controller replacement
8. Msuper1680 - does not turn on - controller replacement

KingSong
1. KS16 - does not turn on - controller replacement
2. KS18 - does not turn on - controller replacement

Inmotion
1. V3 - does not turn off: dance: - display replacement
2. V8 - does not turn on - replacing the button connector
3. V8 - LEDs are not lit - LEDs are replaced
4. V8 - does not turn on - controller replacement
5. V3 - does not turn on, does not charge - replace the controller, battery
6. V3 - noise at driving - bearing replacement

April

Gotway
1. Msuper1600 - does not turn on, the handle is broken - the controller is replaced, the pen is replaced
2. Msuper680 - twitches - resolves the logic
3. ACM680 - does not turn on - controller replacement
4. MCM4 520 - does not turn on - controller replacement
5. GotWay ACM - does not turn on - controller replacement
6. MCM4 - does not go more than 12 km / h - controller replacement
7. MCM4 - extraneous sound when driving - bearing replacement
8. MSuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
9. MCM4 - does not turn on - change the power button
10. Msuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
11. MCM4 - jerks when driving - motor replacement

KingSong
1. KS16 - does not turn on - controller replacement
2. KS16 - does not turn on - replace the fuse
3. KS14B - does not turn on - controller replacement
4. KS16 - does not turn on - controller replacement
5. KS16S - vibration at driving - alignment of a rim
6. KS16 - turns on once - button is replaced
7. KS16 - does not turn on - controller replacement
8. KS16 - does not turn on - replace the fuse

Inmotion
1. V3 - does not turn on - battery recovery
2. V8 - the engine lock button does not work - reassembly
3. V5 - turns off - controller replacement
4. V5 + - at 11 km / h raises the pedals - replaces the controller
5. V5f - noise during driving - bearing replacement
6. V8 - does not turn on - replace the controller, replace the battery

May

GotWay
1. Luffy - does not turn on - controller replacement
2. MCM4 - vibration while driving - controller replacement: neg:
3. MSuper1600 - not calibrated - controller replacement
4. MSuper1600 - ignition controller: laugh: - controller replacement
5. MSuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
6. MCM4 - short circuit - replacement of the controller
7. MSuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
8. MCM4 - does not work correctly - soldering of the sensors of the hall
9. MSuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
10. MSuper - does not charge - re-solder charging terminals
11. Luffy - not calibrated - controller replacement
12. MCM4 - twitches when driving - Resolving Hall sensors
13. ACM680 - twitches when driving - soldering logic
14. GotWay Monster - does not turn on - controller replacement
15. GotWay Msuper680 - does not turn on - controller replacement

KingSong
1. KS16 - does not turn on - replace the fuse
2. KS16 - does not turn on - replace the fuse
3. KS16 - does not turn on - controller replacement
4. KS14B - does not turn on - controller replacement
5. KS14B - does not charge - solder battery
6. KS14C - flooded with water - motor replacement
7. KS14B - does not charge - balancing the battery

Inmotion
1. V3 - does not charge - battery replacement
2. V8 - does not charge - soldering of the battery cables
3. V5F - not calibrated - controller replacement
4. V5 - does not turn on - flashing
5. 4. V3 - does not turn on - display replacement

June

GotWay
1. ACM - does not turn on - controller replacement
2. Msuper 1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
3. Monster - vibration while driving - soldering of the sensors of the hall
4. Msuper 1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
5. Msuper 1600 - not going - controller replacement
6. Msuper 1600 - controller controller - controller replacement
7. ACM - knocking on the road - soldering the controller's elements
8. MCM4 - Кз controller - replacement of the controller
9. Msuper 1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
10. Msuper 1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
11. Monster - vibration while driving - soldering of the sensors of the hall
12. Monster - does not connect to the application - replace bluetooth
13. Msuper1600 - strong vibration at driving - replacement of the controller, soldering of sensors of the hall

KingSong
1. KS16 - does not turn on - controller replacement
2. KS18 - does not charge - re-solder battery
3. KS14B - does not turn on - controller replacement
4. KS18 - not charging - soldering the charging connector
5. KS14C - does not turn on - controller replacement (failure to repair)

Inmotion
1. V5 - does not turn on - battery replacement
2. V3pro - twitching in motion - Resolving Hall sensors
3. V8 - does not turn on - replacement of the power button
4. V3pro - does not charge - solder battery
5. V8 - does not turn on - controller replacement
6. V8 - disconnected during driving - controller replacement
7. V8 - does not charge - battery replacement
8. V8 - does not turn on - controller replacement

July

GotWay
1. ACM680 - does not turn on, the case is broken - replacement of the controller, housing
2. Msuper 1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
3. Msuper820 - does not turn on - controller replacement
4. ACM - extraneous sound while driving - Resolving Hall sensors
5. Msuper820 - extraneous sound when driving - Resolving Hall sensors
6. MCM4 - K3 on the board, does not turn on - controller replacement
7. Msuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
8. Msuper V2>: D - jerks when driving - controller replacement
9. Msuper820 - does not turn on - Resolving Hall sensors
10. ACM - does not turn on - controller replacement
11. Msuoer1600 - knocking on when turned on - controller replacement, hall sensors
12. Msuper680 - does not turn on - Resolving Hall sensors
13. Msuper820 - does not turn on - controller replacement
14. MSUPER 1600 - Msuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
15. MSUPER 1600 - Msuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement
16. Msuper1600 - does not turn on - controller replacement

KingSong
1. KS14C - does not turn on - controller replacement
2. KS18 - does not turn on - Reset the power button
3. KS16S% -) - does not turn on - controller replacement
4. KS18 - low mileage - battery balancing

Inmotion
1. V5f - does not turn on - replacement of the power button
2. V5f - does not turn on - replace the fuse
3. V8 - noise during driving - soldering of the sensors of the hall
4. V5 - driving noise - bearing replacement
5. V3C - does not turn on - battery replacement
6. V5F - does not turn on - controller replacement
7. V8 - does not turn on - flashing
8. V8 - does not turn on - replacement of the power button
9. V3 pro - jerks when turned on - controller replacement
10. V5F - does not turn on - controller replacement
11. V5 - does not turn on - replacement of the power button
12. V8 - does not turn on, resampling the hall sensors
13. V8 - the button for locking the motor does not work - the button is replaced
14. V8 - disconnected during driving - battery replacement
15. V5F - does not turn on - battery replacement
16. V3pro - power-on error - controller replacement

 

Conclusions:

1.
Here there is a full percentage of marriage for any service call due to electronic or electrical problems (here, mechanical damages and tire punctures are not taken into account)
The percentage of rejects from sold devices during the period February-July 2017 is indicated. In brackets, my comments are highlighted by a frame.

Inmotin:
V8 - 4.8% (excellent quality: wow :, there were a lot of sales)
V5, +, F - 5.88%
V3c, pro, s - 7.8%

KingSong
KS14B - 3.33%
KS14C - 15% (due to low sales, as the model changed to 14d)
KS14D - was not in the service (selling was enough)
KS16 - 7.33%
KS16S - 1.12%
KS18 - 17,24% (transition to sports)
KS18S - was not in the service (sales were moderate)

GotWay
MCM4 - 18.57%
ACM 680,820 - 36,6%
ACM 1300 - 35% (a small number of sales, according to my personal feelings this is the best of the gothweb)
Msuper 680,820 - 11,11% (the average number of sales, here statistics is more visible)
Msuper 1600 - 36.98% (every 3 users of a pregnant soup met in the service, the statistics could be a little lower, because in my memory there were repeated calls for the same problem)
Monster - 23.4% (a small number of sales)

2.
And here now I will show the statistics of the marriage in percent only on the controllers and sensors of the hall.

Inmotin:
V8 - 1,97% (the standard, as I already said)
V5, +, F - 2.71%
V3c, pro, s - 2,12%

KingSong
KS14B - 2% (reference wheel standard)
KS14C - 10%
KS14D - was not in the service (selling was enough)
KS16 - 3,33% (the percentage of the marriage is halved due to the fuse on the board)
KS16S - 1.12% (reference)
KS18 - 6.89% (the percentage of rejects decreased threefold, 18 of the usual words had problems with the charging connectors and balancing the battery)
KS18S - was not in the service (sales were moderate)

GotWay
MCM4 - 14.28%
ACM 680,820 - 26,6%
ACM 1300 - 14.28% (all problems are of the same type - controllers or hall sensors)
Msuper 680,820 - 9,25%
Msuper 1600 - 34,24% (every 3 users of a pregnant soup met in the service, the statistics could be a little lower, since in my memory there were repeated calls for the same problem)
Monster - 23.4% (a small number of sales)

Final output:
Let's break our conclusion by brands.
- Inmotion is very good with the quality of monocols and this statistics confirms this. Sales were many and the statistics complete. Inmotion keep it up, there is much to grow. But in general. Well done.
- KingSong - the average percentage of rejects for old models (14c, 16 and 18). And the phenominal results for the new sports versions. I also want to note separately 14B - the best wheel for entering the monocoque tusovka in relation to quality. You pay a little, you drive sadly, but not in service: laugh:: laugh:: laugh:
- Gotway - it's bad ... We need to work on quality. No model can compete in quality with either kingsong or inmoshenom. There are weak attempts at Msuper680, 820, but not enough. Msuper1600 - generally horror. 84B and the controller from gothve is a nuclear device. As I have already written many times - buying goths makes sense only when you understand what you are taking. Exceptionally speed. If you are not about the actress, unfortunately, goths should not be considered. I very much hope that the gothwa will draw its quality to the level of the standard set by Inmotion and KingSong.

P.S. If you have something else to count or see - ask questions in the topic - I will try to find answers to them.
Since October 2017, we will have a new program for recording faults and everything will be much better and clearer in it.

[meepmeepmayer]

Thanks for the info! Always good to have some actual data.

Us Goth owners really have nuclear devices

[US69]

thanks for this phantastic quality statistics!!!

I would say this refers and is in conclusion to the reports we have here about the different wheels.

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

1 hour ago, EcoDrift said:

Msuper 1600 - 36.98% (every 3 users of a pregnant soup met in the service, the statistics could be a little lower, because in my memory there were repeated calls for the same problem)

  Not quite sure if I want to ride a MSuper any more unless I wear a different kind of protection.  

I'm no statisticsologist, but I think it might be difficult to draw conclusions from this sampling due to unknown sales numbers.  If a dealer sells a ton more KingSong than Gotway, the service percentage numbers will be skewed in favor of KS even if the number of failures is the same.  Say if 3 out of 100 KS fail and 3 out of 10 GW fail, the percentage is 3% versus 33% failure rate for the number of wheels sold.  The odds though aren't in favor of the GW if they are having that many fail even though fewer are sold.

It's a good survey as it sort of reflects what we have been finding on the forums overall.

[steve454]

One out of every three MSuper 1600 had a warranty issue?  Probably with all the failed parts getting sent back to Gotway, they are taking note and making improvements.

[houseofjob]

It's typical Chinese dumping mentality for Gotway: flood the market with faster development, quantity (sacrificing some quality), so they can try to squeeze out the slower competition (esp. the larger EUC conglomerates who tend to R&D slower and more expensive).

And it's working! (to some degree..*smh*)

 

My experience owning a Gotway: really hard not to buy in!

FWIW, currently there are no other options for competitively spec'd 10" and/or 22" EUCs.

The wheels are tolerable if you're savvy and not trying to ride them fast and into the ground (and you're handy with tools, a soldering iron on occasion.....)

 

P.S. love the mentality of @EcoDrift, attempting stuff like this statistical survey, their Dyno / Power tests, etc. (ie. all the stuff us diehards want to know....)

[Marty Backe]

Very interesting to read.

I've owned 7 new Gotway wheels in the last ~year and only one had a failure (firmware) out of the box. I guess I'm a very unique case based on these numbers.

I really do hope that Gotway improves their quality because I love how Gotway wheels perform. Maybe 2018 will be the year that real improvements are seen, although if I had to bet, I would say probably 2019 

[Marty Backe]

31 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

It's typical Chinese dumping mentality for Gotway: flood the market with faster development, quantity (sacrificing some quality), so they can try to squeeze out the slower competition (esp. the larger EUC conglomerates who tend to R&D slower and more expensive).

And it's working! (to some degree..*smh*)

 

My experience owning a Gotway: really hard not to buy in!

FWIW, currently there are no other options for competitively spec'd 10" and/or 22" EUCs.

The wheels are tolerable if you're savvy and not trying to ride them fast and into the ground (and you're handy with tools, a soldering iron on occasion.....)

 

P.S. love the mentality of @EcoDrift, attempting stuff like this statistical survey, their Dyno / Power tests, etc. (ie. all the stuff us diehards want to know....)

I would add 16" EUCs too. The KS16S is close to the ACM in performance, but it tops out with a 840wh battery and I'm not convinced that it has the same raw power and stability of the 84volt ACMs.

[EcoDrift]

10 hours ago, steve454 said:

 Probably with all the failed parts getting sent back to Gotway, they are taking note and making improvements.

Are you kidding?))))

Gotway does not listen to anyone. No users, no dealers

[EcoDrift]

My top

cheap 14 - kingsong 14b

powerful 14 - kingsong 14s 840

for light users 16 - inmotion v8

for all users 16 - kingsong 16sport

for high speed users 18 - msuper 1600, but always use defense

 

[WARPed1701D]

Thank you so much for these statistics. They are very valuable from a buyers perspective. I doubt you collect the data but I would be very interested to know how many of the failures were during use. In other words, there are lots of 'won't turn on' with controller replacements to repair . How many of these were just that 'i went to use it and it wouldn't turn on. Bummer' and how many were "it failed at 20mph. I broke two fingers and a collarbone. And now it won't turn on".

[EcoDrift]

1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said:

Thank you so much for these statistics. They are very valuable from a buyers perspective. I doubt you collect the data but I would be very interested to know how many of the failures were during use. In other words, there are lots of 'won't turn on' with controller replacements to repair . How many of these were just that 'i went to use it and it wouldn't turn on. Bummer' and how many were "it failed at 20mph. I broke two fingers and a collarbone. And now it won't turn on".

Unfortunately, I do not have such data

[WARPed1701D]

1 hour ago, EcoDrift said:

Unfortunately, I do not have such data

I didn't think you would. Thanks anyway. 

[EUCMania]

@EcoDrift, please also include the total km driven in your statistics. 

One use Inmotion for short travel on smoother road, while Gotway 18,  ACM etc are used for long trip, possibly on rough road. A better way to compare is to use Repairs per 1000km driven.

[EcoDrift]

18 hours ago, EUCMania said:

@EcoDrift, please also include the total km driven in your statistics. 

One use Inmotion for short travel on smoother road, while Gotway 18,  ACM etc are used for long trip, possibly on rough road. A better way to compare is to use Repairs per 1000km driven.

Our service does not take into account the mileage, since we do not have a limit on the mileage warranty

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I was just curious - are Rockwheel GT16s not very popular in Russia?  I would think with their sleek look and higher speed capabilities that they would be a popular choice.  It would be good to see some Rockwheel service statistics.

[WaveCut]

@Hunka Hunka Burning Love Rockwheel lost a lot of reliability reputation here. (also, EcoDrift does not ship them  )

[EcoDrift]

2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I was just curious - are Rockwheel GT16s not very popular in Russia?  I would think with their sleek look and higher speed capabilities that they would be a popular choice.  It would be good to see some Rockwheel service statistics.

I do not understand one thing. Why do you want to choose initially low quality product and then repair it. What's the catch?
Rockwheel is even worse in quality than gotway
What for?

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I'm sure there are several people who ask that very same question about Gotway products... 

I think Rockwheel did have several issues with their initial version, but apparently some people (looking at you @Scatcat) seem to be fairly happy with their Rockwheels.  I don't know first hand if they have completely ironed out all of their issues, but support seems to be pretty good as far as I can tell.  Maybe they are trying to make amends for the issues early adopters have experienced, but it will be an uphill climb to regain consumer confidence.   Maybe if they were to provide a new version of their wheel to dealers to do some long term testing that might bring back some faith in the brand.  Difficult to say.  

@Tomek what's your experience so far on your GT16?  @Barry Chen, has Rockwheel sorted out its problems, and what is the rate of service needed for version 2 of the GT16 in your experience?

[Tomek]

20 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

@Tomek what's your experience so far on your GT16?

bipolar: I absolutely love it for the looks+compactness and for the speed+agility+power. I hate it for the lack of waterproofing and the fact that the wheel scrapes the inside of the shell when starting/one-leg-riding.

1 hour ago, EcoDrift said:

I do not understand one thing. Why do you want to choose initially low quality product and then repair it. What's the catch?
Rockwheel is even worse in quality than gotway
What for?

good question. because I don't like the looks+size of tesla and I wanted a compact and powerful wheel, and there's no other real competition (ie in 40kph+ 16-inchers)

[Scatcat]

51 minutes ago, Tomek said:

bipolar: I absolutely love it for the looks+compactness and for the speed+agility+power. I hate it for the lack of waterproofing and the fact that the wheel scrapes the inside of the shell when starting/one-leg-riding.

good question. because I don't like the looks+size of tesla and I wanted a compact and powerful wheel, and there's no other real competition (ie in 40kph+ 16-inchers)

The first is almost exactly my feeling about the GT16 too. The waterproofing I could fix, but the scraping is about the rigidity of the shell which is hard to fix yourself. Basically RW should have done one of three things (or all of them ideally):

• They should have made a ridge on the inside of the battery compartment to give more support in the sideways direction.
• They should have made the pedal arm continue upwards a bit, giving the shell support from the inside.
• They should have made the supporting structure of the shell a bit thicker, given that the weight of the shell is negligible.

I'm day-dreaming a bit about an 18" RW a GT18 with a stiffer shell, a higher max power, more battery power, bigger pedals and good water-proofing. Add a stronger headlight, better mud-flap, integrated trolley and a 3"+ tyre, and I would be totally sold.

[Scatcat]

I've even considered if there would be a way of adding rigidity to the shell myself. But that would mean doing some heavy rework of the internals. I'm not sure I'm up to that.

[Scatcat]

2 hours ago, EcoDrift said:

I do not understand one thing. Why do you want to choose initially low quality product and then repair it. What's the catch?
Rockwheel is even worse in quality than gotway
What for?

I think you should test the V2, it's a different beast. The firmware is a lot better, with much better safety features. As I understand it, there have been very few failures in the V2 version, those were mainly in the V1s.

[EcoDrift]

On 25.10.2017 at 11:45 PM, Tomek said:

bipolar: I absolutely love it for the looks+compactness and for the speed+agility+power. I hate it for the lack of waterproofing and the fact that the wheel scrapes the inside of the shell when starting/one-leg-riding.

good question. because I don't like the looks+size of tesla and I wanted a compact and powerful wheel, and there's no other real competition (ie in 40kph+ 16-inchers)

But you forget about quality... and this is very important

Kingsong KS16sport, for example, have 35 km/h and its a good substitute of gotway)

[EcoDrift]

On 26.10.2017 at 12:47 AM, Scatcat said:

The first is almost exactly my feeling about the GT16 too. The waterproofing I could fix, but the scraping is about the rigidity of the shell which is hard to fix yourself. Basically RW should have done one of three things (or all of them ideally):

• They should have made a ridge on the inside of the battery compartment to give more support in the sideways direction.
• They should have made the pedal arm continue upwards a bit, giving the shell support from the inside.
• They should have made the supporting structure of the shell a bit thicker, given that the weight of the shell is negligible.

I'm day-dreaming a bit about an 18" RW a GT18 with a stiffer shell, a higher max power, more battery power, bigger pedals and good water-proofing. Add a stronger headlight, better mud-flap, integrated trolley and a 3"+ tyre, and I would be totally sold.

Unfortunately, you reason as a user.
With Rockwheel in general it is impossible to work as a company. First they made goods of very low quality, maybe rockwheel gt16 v2 of better quality, but having received such negative experience with them on past products, generally there is no desire to work further.

It is very difficult to work with small factories and receive competent support from them.
Buy one wheel - maybe. Building long relationships with them at the level of wholesale purchases is not an achievable task. Believe.

The law on the protection of consumer rights is one of the most stringent in Russia. And so it is very painful to work with plants with low quality like rockwheel or gotway.
Example.
A breakdown in the first 14 days is a return. (Hello got and rock) (in 2017 years I returned 2 GT16 from 5))) (In 2017 I returned 4 Msuper1600) 
Two breakdowns of the same in a year is a return. (Hello got and rock) (In 2017 years I returned 4 GT16 from 5, and after sold as used for little money)(6 Msuper 1600)

And for example - in 2017 years I returned only one KS16Sports and zero Inmotion. 

Feel the difference)

The court for the protection of consumer rights almost always stands up for the protection of the consumer, not the seller.