MSuper V3 or Monster?

[mezzanine]

If someone offered you a free Monster or MSuper V3, which would you choose and why?  I know that these wheels have been compared before, but wanted to see how folks would view the two Gotways if price was taken out of the equation as a factor.  The Monster being expensive puts it in another price tier and might prevent some people who might otherwise consider one from considering it along equal terms. 

I've been asking myself the question of which model I'd choose and seem to go back and forth.  The idea of being able to sit on the Monster is much more appealing to me than I expected it would be after watching some videos on youtube.  I know the MSuper offers a seat option too, but I doubt I'd get it given how much lower the casing is to the ground.  It's hard to get a sense for how much I would actually sit while riding after reading reports of others who have suggested that it's only practical under ideal conditions and that they don't use the seat as much as they expected they would.  Nearly everyone says it's a nice option to have to spell tired feet on long cruises.  

Even though it's massive, I've read someone mention that they're able to fairly easily guide it up stairs without too much effort.  This was an important bit of information for me because the idea of lugging the 70lbs. wheel up flights of stairs isn't appealing.  

Obviously there are downsides to the Monster.  I'm curious whether the people who currently own Monsters would purchase them again if they were doing it all over again.  It doesn't take spills very well and it seems like it was build around parts originally intended for their smaller wheels.  The axle loosening issue (?) scares me. 

I'm most interested in how practical the Monster is for city riding where you're not dealing with a lot of people, but with a fair amount of low speed maneuvering.  One of the reasons I flip flop on the Monster is because I think I go back and forth on this particular issue of whether it's still a practical wheel.  Does the Monster still allow a high level of low speed control?  I get that impression from reading Marty's comments, but then I'll watch videos of people talking about how hard it can be to maneuver a wheel of that size/weight.  I read someone comment that the Monster is actually more comfortable in many ways to ride because of it's higher case allowing leverage with one's knees like the KS 18S. 

Anyway, I feel like the MSuper is a more known quantity, so I won't go into much detail about the pros/cons as I see them with that wheel.  Ultimately, I don't think I'd choose the Monster, but I'm glad that I took the time to look at it more closely because it helps me to better understand what I want in a wheel.   

 

 

[houseofjob]

I only drive in a city setting (NYC), and the Monster is my daily driver, one of my EUC's that I will never sell until a v2 comes on the market.

The main reasons (some you spoke of):

• the ability to sit (foot pain; seated riding lets you leverage more torque going uphill or at speed; overall fun of it)
• wide 2.75" tire to combat NYC pothole-d streets
• speed + size makes you feel the most comfortable riding amongst cars in stop-and-go city traffic (compared to smaller EUCs).

I was actually going to buy an MSuperV3 until they announced the 22" Monster.

And I would buy the Monster over the MSuperV3 (not knocking it; one of the best EUCs out IMO) every single time due to my personal reasons above.

 

Regarding rolling the Monster powered on up stairs, the stairs need to be significantly lower in height than the wheel diameter of the Monster (say maybe 25% or lower of the 22'" diameter, so like ~6" or lower)

 

And as for going low speed amongst pedestrians, I'm perfectly fine either

a.) riding slowly standing up, manipulating more with heel-toe action on the pedals

b.) riding slowly seated, stopping when the pedestrians are too slow by remaining seated and taking my feet of the pedals; or

c.) stiff-arming my seat / dismounting, walking the Monster beside me, then re-mounting when traffic lets up.

[mezzanine]

The third point you raised about the speed/size of the Monster giving you confidence in NYC traffic is a big one.  Probably the biggest factor swaying me in the Monster's direction.  I've been splitting my time between sidewalks and roads on my V8, but would use the Monster exclusively on the roads. 

I guess I'm curious whether EUC makers will eventually expand to include models of Monster's size or if this will be seen more as a novelty in the history of EUC development.  Just the fact Gotway is apparently readying a 100v model suggests to me there is more market potential than I would have guessed because my assumption has been that the Monster has been something of a commercial failure for them.  

The Monster being maneuverable at lower speeds is another key.  I've read accounts of how much more anticipation it requires because of inertia when accelerating and decelerating that I started to wonder whether it's impractical if it's moving in tight quarters.  I've wondered about the adaptation of the motor from their smaller wheels for the Monster and feared the consequence could be a lack of torque at low speeds that would hurt performance. 

I have read that the seat can double as a kind of trolley handle given the height it adds to the chassis. 
 

It's interesting how you kind of have to get your mind around the idea of the Monster.  I'd dismissed it completely, but don't want to overlook it's strengths because of a misguided prejudice about wheels that size.  That's why I was wondering how the Monster will be viewed historically; whether it will be viewed as a novelty or whether there will be 22" wheels from other companies eventually and it will be seen as a viable size in a EUC. 

 

[steve454]

18 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

It's interesting how you kind of have to get your mind around the idea of the Monster.  I'd dismissed it completely, but don't want to overlook it's strengths because of a misguided prejudice about wheels that size.  That's why I was wondering how the Monster will be viewed historically; whether it will be viewed as a novelty or whether there will be 22" wheels from other companies eventually and it will be seen as a viable size in a EUC. 

I think 26 inch is the maximum  And you don't need much of a seat to sit down.  I saw this about a year ago.  I think the reason it's not seen anymore is because they used the motor from the 18 inch wheel and made the bigger wheel from it.  I imagine the loss of torque made it a low performance wheel.  Probably okay for slow speed cruising, and looked pretty easy to turn on to the sidewalk, but meh.

 

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

The third point you raised about the speed/size of the Monster giving you confidence in NYC traffic is a big one.  Probably the biggest factor swaying me in the Monster's direction.  I've been splitting my time between sidewalks and roads on my V8, but would use the Monster exclusively on the roads. 

The Monster definitely lends itself to riding primarily on the streets next to cars, not on the sidewalk next to pedestrians.

I think more like a car when I'm riding my Monster (riding down the proper one way directions, etc), as opposed to my other, smaller wheels, because what's the point of having a sports car when you can't gun it because you're sitting in rush hour traffic (ie. sidewalks full of pedestrians)?

 

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

I guess I'm curious whether EUC makers will eventually expand to include models of Monster's size or if this will be seen more as a novelty in the history of EUC development.

Wouldn't say novelty; probably more niche than a next trend, ala the KS18 tall series for KingSong.

Think it was @Jason McNeil (might be mistaken) saying that Monsters, probably due to the obvious high price point and size/weight prejudice, were moving relatively fewer units after the first wave of buyers purchased their wheels.

My bet is that only Gotway keeps putting out 22" EUCs, just like they are the only ones releasing a 10" model. The market responds to sales numbers, like how Ninebot One 16" series sales pushed many EUC co's to adopt the 16" format, along with rotating pattern LED lights. Don't really see that trend happening here with the Monster.

 

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

Just the fact Gotway is apparently readying a 100v model suggests to me there is more market potential than I would have guessed because my assumption has been that the Monster has been something of a commercial failure for them.  

Does the Monster line really have to be a smash commercial success to the same degree as their other models though?

When I heard the MSuperV3 control boards were basically the same boards used in the Monster, it seemed to me that maybe many of the Monster's components were streamlined to borrow from it's smaller brother, along with simplifying production logistics in other ways, like making 1 symmetrical shell designed to serve as both sides, etc.

 

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

The Monster being maneuverable at lower speeds is another key.

No complaints here, it's just all about technique and how willing you are to learn it.

 

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

I've read accounts of how much more anticipation it requires because of inertia when accelerating and decelerating that I started to wonder whether it's impractical if it's moving in tight quarters.  I've wondered about the adaptation of the motor from their smaller wheels for the Monster and feared the consequence could be a lack of torque at low speeds that would hurt performance.

IMHO only when you learn to ride seated do you unlock the full potential of the Monster; otherwise, you're only using half the wheel I think.

When I need to accelerate fast on the Monster, I'll always sit down, right on the front of the seat, and the Monster flies.

If I need to decelerate / brake quickly on the Monster, I'll stiff arm the seat and stand up, leaning backwards and S-ing. Sometimes, if I'm decelerating from a lower cruising speed and need to stop quickly, I'll stiff arm the Monster seat and come off the wheel entirely, running beside the Monster to a dramatic and immediate slowdown.

Employing such techniques as above, along with learning to offset the inertia while riding standing, I have absolutely zero issues with torque, anticipation, tight quarters, etc.

 

I think you have to be willing to explore the new possibilities that the different 22" form factor presents, and not be married to riding in just one particular way because that's how you learned to ride on a smaller diameter wheel.

 

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

I have read that the seat can double as a kind of trolley handle given the height it adds to the chassis. 

This really depends on your height and arm reach. For me at 5'7", I can comfortably maneuver the seat-mounted Monster just fine without hunching over.

[Meng Yang]

Just don't understand why Monster is so much more expensive than other wheels! 

[houseofjob]

@Meng Yang Pricing really seems to be a function of battery size + max speed.

The 1600WH MSuperV3s+ & 1600WH Monster are usually similar in price.

[mezzanine]

@houseofjob

Your comments have been very helpful.  The biggest sticking point for me is the weight.  If I was confident that I could maneuver it up a couple of short flights of stairs I would view the whole wheel differently.  I do weighted shrugs as part of my workout routine with 55lbs dumbbells and figure that's about the limit of what I could manage one handed.  It's possible I'm overemphasizing this issue and could manage the Monster just grabbing it with both hands as I've seen done on video. 

The appeal of being able to sit on the Monster has such a strong pull.  Your description of how you've adapted your riding style on the Monster to utilize the seat is exactly the kind of insight that I was hoping for. 

In terms of the more general discussion of how the Monster fits into the larger EUC market, I'm a little concerned about Gotway's future right now.  I think it's possible they've damaged their brand over this last six months more than we're really aware.  Could be wrong about that; hopefully it's smooth sailing from here on forward.

[Meng Yang]

25 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I think it's possible they've damaged their brand over this last six months more than we're really aware.  Could be wrong about that; hopefully it's smooth sailing from here on forward.

Absolutely! Even their new MTen3 wasn't free from a minor recall. Luckily for Gotway, the intriguing MTen3 managed to invoke quite a buzz around how fun this new product can actually be. Their Tesla is yet another opportunity for Gotway to gain back consumer's trust. Let see how this goes. For Gotway's (and our) sake, let's hope we hear nothing bad of the Tesla and Monster 100V from this point on.

[Scatcat]

2 hours ago, Meng Yang said:

Absolutely! Even their new MTen3 wasn't free from a minor recall. Luckily for Gotway, the intriguing MTen3 managed to invoke quite a buzz around how fun this new product can actually be. Their Tesla is yet another opportunity for Gotway to gain back consumer's trust. Let see how this goes. For Gotway's (and our) sake, let's hope we hear nothing bad of the Tesla and Monster 100V from this point on.

Yes, for our sakes as much as Gotway's sake. We need the competition between Gotway and Kingsong to keep the market developing. They're the two biggest brands (sorry Ninebot, Inmotion and Rockwheel), and if one of them goes bust, the other will no longer have a challenge.

The Monster is one of the wheels I could very well love. I'm a bit leery about the 1600W being a bit underpowered with that wheel size, but then again it depends a lot on the actual motor.

[foxmulder32]

Difference in weight between MSV3 1600 and Monster 1600 about 3-4kg - forget that. Monster is absolutely awesome in pedestrian traffic, forest roads, industrial zones with dirt and bricks on the road, etc. And the absolute superiority for me: to disassemble Monster you don't need to remove pedals!!!