Mono Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I would like to propose that it should be against the forum rules to promote or distribute apps that increase the maximal speed of a wheel without approval of the manufacturer. There is no doubt that someone will die because of such functionality in future and this future is the closer the more promotion is made. This is about choice. It is about choosing to prevent people from involuntarily choosing to die. Everybody who is aware of the distribution of such a modified app but silent will have to take some of the responsibility for the fate of this silly but unfortunate teenager who believed that this is not a big deal. This post was a reminder to me to bring it up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoplanet Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Germans. geesus. You like control dont you? suckers for it? have to be beateninto submission? lol. Let people have their fun. Some might need the hacking for other things than killing themselves. Perhaps to attach the euc to a soap box car or something. Who are we to put limits on creative people. Live and let live. Hands off. Sure. warn people, but dont restrict. that kills the creative spirit. Btw. what is the name of the app? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I do get it. A thing like this might easily become a legal matter. Hearing reasons why riders have fallen down makes me think that we definitely should not have the capability to increase the top speed above what is intended. If you remove the limiters on a Gotway, it's a way of hurting you that the manufacture has intended. It's the manufacturer who gets the court invitation for that, not a forum host or members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoplanet Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 also. what happened to personal responsibility? WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 @Mono You have forgotten to mention Darkness Bot app... Both Wheellog and Darkness Not are- since about two months- able to set the manufacter speed of Inmotions and Kingsongs higher. Both had been criticized for that, and both had implemented warnings to the user, that its to their own risk...when they do that! Thats it...To implement that into the forum rules...is way overdrawn in my view! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, exoplanet said: also. what happened to personal responsibility? WTF. US lawyers happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: @Mono Both Wheellog and Darkness Not are- since about two months- able to set the manufacter speed of Inmotions and Kingsongs higher. On my iPhone 6 running iOS 11 the latest Darkness Bot can't even set the limit to the manufacturer maximum of 35km/h (KS-16S). Is the feature on Android only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, mrelwood said: On my iPhone 6 running iOS 11 the latest Darkness Bot can't even set the limit to the manufacturer maximum of 35km/h (KS-16S). Is the feature on Android only? Nope, its a IOS app only...maybe you have one of the later versions of darkness and the option is only in the beta app until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Ah, 3.0 had been available in the App store for 4 hours, but it didn't show as an update. Reinstalled, now have the 3.0. I'll test it out. Edit: Nope, still can't go above 35. Perhaps it would enable a 16D to go up to 35? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 hours ago, exoplanet said: also. what happened to personal responsibility? WTF. That is exactly what I was wondering and what the OP is about. Taking our personal responsibility, not talking about others taking theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radial Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I'm fine with apps that allow me to exceed the speed limit imposed by manufacturers who are just following the advice of their lawyers. They are protected from liability and I'm able to wring out all the performance inherent in the technology. What's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, radial said: I'm fine with apps that allow me to exceed the speed limit imposed by manufacturers who are just following the advice of their lawyers. They are protected from liability and I'm able to wring out all the performance inherent in the technology. What's not to like? That some people will die as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Take Lhotz for example. I'm having hard time not to overlean during regular braking from 15km/h, and that wheel is supposed to be safe running 26km/h? It's not. It wouldn't be freedom to let riders increase the Lhotz's speed limit to 35km/h. It would be irresponsible, reckless and stupid. There are exceptions though. I think the KS-16S might be pretty well prepared to go 40km/h (current max 35km/h). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radial Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Some people die as a result of every decision people make that might involve lethal consequences. Nobody is forcing anyone to go any faster than they want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Mono said: I would like to propose that it should be against the forum rules to promote or distribute apps that increase the maximal speed of a wheel without approval of the manufacturer. There is no doubt that someone will die because of such functionality in future and this future is the closer the more promotion is made. This is about choice. It is about choosing to prevent people from involuntarily choosing to die. Everybody who is aware of the distribution of such a modified app but silent will have to take some of the responsibility for the fate of this silly but unfortunate teenager who believed that this is not a big deal. Great. So lets forbid all cars and motorbikes, too. Because in most countries it is not allowed to drive faster than 130 km/h, but actually ALL cars and motorbikes are able to drive a lot faster. Or let us ask for a law, that all cars and motorbikes must be electronically restricted to 130 km/h. Uh, oh, that wouldn't hinder drivers to go through cities with 130 km/h. So let us ask for a law, that all cars and motorbikes must be electronically restricted to the maximum speed which is allowed on their current location, based on GPS. And let us forbid rock climbing by law, because it can be dangerous so one might lose his life, and what is the business of a human being up in a mountain wall ? Let us forbid cayaking too, because if you make a mistake in grade 6 waters, you may be drowned. Let's forbid to cross the street, because of the cars. What else can we forbid ? Ah yes, let's forbid life, because it ALWAYS leads to death, so it's by far the most dangerous thing one can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Come on Asylsteirer, you know better than to throw a tantrum over this. It’s not long ago that a guy asked why did he fall down on his ACM. After a few questions it became clear, he was trying to accelerate way past 30km/h at the start of a very steep uphill. I think he had only a third left in the battery, or something like that. Beginners don’t understand how to ride at high speeds. More incidents like that and ALL unicycles are in danger of being outlawed as way too unsafe. We must be sensible with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: Come on Asylsteirer, you know better than to throw a tantrum over this. It’s not long ago that a guy asked why did he fall down on his ACM. After a few questions it became clear, he was trying to accelerate way past 30km/h at the start of a very steep uphill. I think he had only a third left in the battery, or something like that. Beginners don’t understand how to ride at high speeds. More incidents like that and ALL unicycles are in danger of being outlawed as way too unsafe. We must be sensible with this. No, I see that differently. A wheel must come with a decent description of the dangers and do's and dont's at riding it, with a short explanation, why. Then it is everybodies self responsibility to use it. I definitely like Wheellog and do not want to miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 8 hours ago, radial said: Some people die as a result of every decision people make that might involve lethal consequences. Nobody is forcing anyone to go any faster than they want to go. True. Exactly the same argument would apply after one of your daughters died in a speed crash after I installed such an app on her wheel. You see, my point is that it is now our decision whether some rather innocent teenager will die in future or not. These decisions do matter for some. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoplanet Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 yes you would be forcing us to not share the information on this forum... But seriously. i think most wheels are underpowered and in reality should go faster than half their speed or not even be ridden because they cant clib steep hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoplanet Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 what about the children!!! let us see your internet records. What about the children blablabla. keep them on a leash or in an icubator til they reach the age of reason. or a lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HermanTheGerman Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 hours ago, Mono said: True. Exactly the same argument would apply after one of your daughters died in a speed crash after I installed such an app on her wheel. You see, my point is that it is now our decision whether some rather innocent teenager will die in future or not. These decisions do matter for some. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Yes. That's the reason why I try to educate my daughter to think twice, e.g. before she enters a car driven by a drunken friend, or before she enters an EUC which was set to a higher maxspeed than the manufacturer allows, for reason. Think twice means to take possible consequences into consideration, and then make a decision. If decision is made like that, then also accept the possible consequences afterwards. This way one can learn from mistakes, or possibly die if severly mistaken. I do not want that she incorporates the comprehensive coverage and suing mentality which seems to take over our society, because this contributes to reduction of intelligence. If you think that to the end, you will see that it is this reduction of intelligence and self responsibility, both of the single human being and of the collective, that can lead to a nuclear war, to poisoning of the environment and to climate change, because the society at the end is to dumb to think about the consequences. It starts small, and ends big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Asylsteirer said: If you think that to the end, you will see that it is this reduction of intelligence and self responsibility, both of the single human being and of the collective, that can lead to a nuclear war, to poisoning of the environment and to climate change, because the society at the end is to dumb to think about the consequences. It starts small, and ends big. Thanks, you nailed it, that was exactly my point. I want the forum administrators to act intelligently and self responsibly by thinking and caring about the consequences of providing and promoting dangerous apps in this forum. I understand that my chances to succeed are not great, but at least I tried, what else can I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 47 minutes ago, Mono said: Thanks, you nailed it, that was exactly my point. I want the forum administrators to act intelligently and self responsibly by thinking and caring about the consequences of providing and promoting dangerous apps in this forum. What a load of nonsense. It's not as if they are promoting illegal activities. Maybe we should stop @Marty Backe or @EUC Extremefrom posting videos of riding off-road because beginners might want to replicate this behaviour and crash? What about all those tricks done by some others here? You want a beginner to ride around in a skatepark? Maybe we should also forbid any video showing riders not wearing full safety equipment, as beginners might copy this behaviour and get hurt? Maybe "common sense" isn't so common after all ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 7 hours ago, Asylsteirer said: No, I see that differently. A wheel must come with a decent description of the dangers and do's and dont's at riding it, with a short explanation, why. Then it is everybodies self responsibility to use it. I definitely like Wheellog and do not want to miss it. Ofcourse they should, but the disclaimers in pretty much every product there is are made for escaping legal battles when something goes wrong. They are currently not what you describe they should be. ”Don’t dry your cat in a microwave!” and ”Don’t offroad!” Great. Most bicycle paths here are dirt roads and smoother than the paved ones. Am I truly not supposed to ride on them? Or is an unpaved bicycle track still a road? I’m not at all against modifying stuff, I think I’ve modified every device I have bought! Had the top speed increase worked on my 16S I think I’d have cautiously tried it myself. But because the society is the crap it currently is, distributing an app like that is a dangerous move (and likely irresponsible unless properly distributed as a dangerous mod and a void in the warranty). If Google could find it from Github, it wouldn’t bother me that much. But an official App Store app promoted by this forum... Eegh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, ir_fuel said: Maybe we should stop @Marty Backe or @EUC Extremefrom posting videos of riding off-road because beginners might want to replicate this behaviour and crash? What about all those tricks done by some others here? You want a beginner to ride around in a skatepark? Maybe we should also forbid any video showing riders not wearing full safety equipment, as beginners might copy this behaviour and get hurt? Yup, that’s exactly what we were after. And mandatory small side wheels. 2 hours ago, ir_fuel said: Maybe "common sense" isn't so common after all ... Exactly. People are interesting. Whenever ANY regulation is proposed, there is a loud group of people claiming they want to regulate every single thing in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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