rdalcanto Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 My son is a freshman at USC. He was using an Inmotion V8 to get around campus. USC just came down with a no lithium ion device policy. No electric bikes, no hover boards, etc, allowed in the dorms because of "fire risk." This is obviously a response to the cheap hoverboards that caught fire in the past. A quality EUC with a charge doctor is hardly a fire risk. Any advice on how to deal with this? He is a music major and has to carry around a heavy saxophone across a large campus. The EUC was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotciv Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Not sure where Inmotion stands with UL certifications. If they are certified, take that to the school and make your argument that they are safe. Perhaps they will make exceptions to UL certified electric personal assistive mobility devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Rotciv said: Not sure where Inmotion stands with UL certifications. If they are certified, take that to the school and make your argument that they are safe. Perhaps they will make exceptions to UL certified electric personal assistive mobility devices. Good thought. I also drafted this letter: Dear Mr VuNguyen, My son Nicholas just informed me of the new USC ban on all Lithium Ion devices. This is obviously in response to the fires that occurred with the cheap, defective hover boards that became popular a few years ago. I am deeply disappointed that someone has made the enormous mistake of assuming that all lithium ion devices are a fire risk. The cheap hover boards caught fire because of the low quality chargers and poor design of the motherboards that allowed some of the cells to over charge, causing them to catch fire. Not all lithium ion devices are a fire risk. Lithium ion batteries are in all the residents phones and computers. High quality devices like my son’s Inmotion V8 unicycle have sophisticated circuitry that monitor the charge state of every cell. Furthermore, the cells used are high quality batteries from Panasonic. In addition to that, he uses a device called a “charge doctor,” that has been programmed to stop charging when the batteries are around 80% charged, which prolongs their life, and eliminates the fire risk completely. The housing agreement said no hover boards, which is reasonable considering their history. But to ban high quality devices, such as high end electric bikes and unicycles, is a policy dictated by ignorance and fear, and it is embarrassing to see this at an institution of “higher learning.” In the not too distant future, nearly every vehicle in the parking garages will be powered by lithium ion batteries more than one hundred times larger than the batteries in the transport devices in question. This policy needs to be reconsidered using input from more knowledgable individuals, so that the rights of the students are not violated in such a blatant manner. Sincerely, Richard A. DalCanto MD, PhD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 IIRC the V8 itself is not UL certified but the official charger is. I don't think the 2.5A fast charger is UL certified. I remember reading this on here before so if you search you can double check this info. I think it was a post by @Jason McNeil And for the sake of correctness the V8 uses MH1 Li-ion cells by LG not Panasonic. Don't give him a reason to debunk you letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, WARPed1701D said: And for the sake of correctness the V8 uses MH1 Li-ion cells by LG not Panasonic. Don't give him a reason to debunk you letter. Thank you, correction made in the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 i guess u heard a hoverboard just caught fire in a mall a short time ago. it sucks but the easiest word for all of government and institutions is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 Made some changes to the letter. Thoughts? Dear Mr VuNguyen, My son Nicholas just informed me of the new USC ban on all Lithium Ion devices. This is obviously in response to the fires that have occurred with the cheap, defective hover boards that became popular a few years ago. I am deeply disappointed that someone has made the enormous mistake of assuming that all lithium ion devices are a fire risk. The cheap hover boards caught fire because of the low quality chargers and poor design of the motherboards that allowed some of the cells to over charge, causing them to catch fire. Not all lithium ion devices are a fire risk. Lithium ion batteries are in all the residents phones and computers. High quality devices like my son’s Inmotion V8 unicycle have sophisticated circuitry that monitor the charge state of every cell. Furthermore, the cells used are high quality batteries from LG and they are charged at a slow rate. In addition to that, he uses a device called a “charge doctor,” that has been programmed to stop charging when the batteries are around 80% charged, which prolongs their life, and eliminates the fire risk completely. The housing agreement said no hover boards, which is reasonable considering their history. But to ban high quality devices, such as high end electric bikes and unicycles, is a policy dictated by ignorance and fear, and it is embarrassing to see this at an institution of “higher learning.” In the not too distant future, nearly every vehicle in the parking garages will be powered by lithium ion batteries more than one hundred times larger than the batteries in the transport devices in question. This policy needs to be reconsidered using input from more knowledgable individuals who understand lithium ion cells, the importance of charge rates and charge levels, the difference between cheap and sophisticated chargers, and the safety features which are now standard in quality circuitry, so that the rights of the students are not violated in such a blatant manner. Sincerely, Richard A. DalCanto MD, PhD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 probably a bunch of dangerous flying batteries there, drones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I'm a professor at SF State University (not exactly USC, but anyway) and my school banned hoverboards and other personal electric vehicles before the 2016-17 academic year. Thankfully, my building is accessible directly from a city street, over which the university has no jurisdiction.I ride my EUC right up to my building every day, then dismount and power off on university property. Unfortunately, our universities are increasingly becoming laboratories less for higher learning and more for legal liability and litigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 we got like one attorney per ten people in the US, they run the government and they love people getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 correction only 1.3 + mil in US. seems like 1 per ten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag_Rip Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Wait, no Li-Ion Devices? That would be the first Smartphone, Tablet and Laptop-Free University Campus! These Devices all use li-ion batteries and can catch fire as easily btw.. or are they only allowing iPhones (no Samsung since they lit their Note on fire) ? Just ridiculous, when people that have no idea how stuff works make rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nute Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 What @Jag_Rip said, are they going to collect everyone's phone and laptop at the door, ban all hybrid and electric cars, take everyone's drone or other RC toys away, take all smart watches and confiscate all e-cigarettes? Li-ion batteries are in everything. Seems like a very poorly thought out rule to me. Maybe you should point out that they are going to have to ban all of the above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Buy an MCM4 and switch to LiPo's like @Samppa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Buy an MCM4 and switch to LiPo's like @Samppa? Very cool suggestion. However, I'm afraid that you might not be able to convince the automatons at the University that it doesn't contain lithium ion batteries. Just like many airliners won't allow an EUC even if the batteries have been removed. Common sense is being beat out of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I would be curious to see the actual specific ban issued by USC to see whether it specifies certain lithium powered vehicles or whether it narrows it down to lithium ion batteries in particular. Most likely it has a list of lithium powered vehicles so simply switching to lithium polymer wouldn't work. Any personal electric vehicle could be targeted in general. Campus security is likely issued a blanket regulation guideline to ban any PEVs used on the grounds. I wonder if compressed air is allowed? https://www.wired.com/2012/11/air-motorcycle/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snurre Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 hours ago, rdalcanto said: a policy dictated by ignorance and fear, and it is embarrassing to see this at an institution of “higher learning.” I'm not a diplomat and I don't know Mr VuNguyen but I fear your wording may evoke a stubborn response. I would comb the hair the other way and praise the esteemed institution while pointing to some good sources of evidence to why their fears are ungrounded (academic namesdropping probably helps, but I can't help you there). We all know that ignorance is the source of such decisions so why not start an enlightenment crusade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 10 hours ago, rdalcanto said: Any advice on how to deal with this? When we were the exclusive US distributor of Inmotion Wheels, there were some exploratory discussions about getting the V5F/V8 UL2272 certified, even the possibility of paying for it ourselves. There wasn't much interest from Inmotion at the time, so it wasn't pursued further: Cost/Time: if there are no redesign requirements, the process takes several months. The fees to UL are about $35,000 per product & involves the destruction of between 15-20 Wheels during testing. Inflexibility: when a product obtains the UL mark, it is then locked into a specific battery model. Should the supplier, like LG, decide one day to end-of-life that cell line, then the product will have to go through re-certification again. In the case of the V5F, if we wanted to replace the Samsung 2.2Ah 22P cells with a more modern cell, like the 3.2Ah MH1, then it would be subject to undergoing certification independently. Voltage: the UL2272 spec sheet makes mention of an upper voltage limit of 60v. I've corresponded with an Engineer from UL about this, at the time I was told that it would be possible to have higher voltage packs, but since there haven't been any instances of this—example of Swagtron's V6/SwagRoller, it was re-engineered from an original 84.2v pack to 59.6v specifically for UL—I don't know if this correct. During the Hong Kong Electronics trade-show next week, King Song are expected to be announcing UL certified versions for the 14D/16S. While UL is an indicator of electronics safety, it does not necessarily follow that a device without UL is inferior, but how to convey this message to someone like Mr. VuNguyen? Perhaps providing him with the CE Certificate & Battery Datasheet would help your case. CE Certificate for the V8http://images.ewheels.com/V8-CE-MD.pdf Datasheet of the MH1 Battery cells: Page 7-8 has some details about the torture testing process, there's some pretty extreme stuff, like charging them at 3x the standard rate, almost 10A! https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0674/3651/files/lg_mh1_spec_sheet.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdalcanto Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 Thanks for the help! But, the link to the CE certificate doesn't seem to work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, rdalcanto said: Thanks for the help! But, the link to the CE certificate doesn't seem to work.... Link fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 In hindsight I think trying to ask the college to allow some units and not others simply on the owners word that it is a quality machine will be challenging. You need some kind of easy to read 3rd party certification that a university office official could glance over and then issue a pass or sticker for the device to indicate it is approved for use on campus. I would rewrite the letter to be less confrontational and agree that the Hoverboard situation was indeed dangerous and you understand their reaction (albiet late) but that lessons were learned and products now exist that are certified safe and they should be considered by a forward thinking university who should be encouraging mid-range eco-friendly transportation methods. If you can persuade them to allow UL certified devices then get your son a Segway One S1 for campus related stuff which has UL certification and keep the V8 for all other non-uni movements. It isn't ideal but meeting in the middle with reasoned discussion will likely get you closer to the result you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Very cool suggestion. However, I'm afraid that you might not be able to convince the automatons at the University that it doesn't contain lithium ion batteries. Just like many airliners won't allow an EUC even if the batteries have been removed. Common sense is being beat out of people Unfortunatly Marty is right...common sense is lost... I remember standing at the Emirates Check-In in BKK, with my empty KS16...opened to prove that no batteries are in it and what not... Nope, no Chance, rule is: No EUCs on board or in Luggage whatsoever...does not help that it's an EUC with no battery :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 a) I agree with the smartphone link. What are they going to do next? Outlaw any battery powered device? b)There need to be some proactive steps here to help protect our use of these devices (certification, education, petitioning our local government). I just missed an opportunity this morning to promote my use of these....as I got off the train, an on duty police officer looked at me and my EUC and said "That's cool!". I should have stopped for a minute to talk to him and explain that with safe riding these things should not be banned. I will do that every chance I get going forward. If we don't do something now to help promote their future, all they have to do is start banning them. AND, we have to do it carefully. If you just start sending out email or letters requesting that they allow their use, that will get shot down. Right now, where I am, motorized things are not allowed on the sidewalks, but it is not enforced. I must admit, I have been shying away from law enforcement on these, and shouldn't be. If we can step up in a grass-roots manner and at least educate the people that are enforcing these laws, that's a good first step. I think it helps that these are really out-door PEV's (personal electric vehicles). If they can get recognized as that, we are good. c)Maybe , as a university student, that is an opportunity to affect change. Universities love that stuff....start a student petition to change the rules, promote "training" and education, cite real-world laws being generated that recognize their use, help designate "proper" use paths (ie bike lanes, not indoors, etc.). I would think there are several things that could be done on-campus to help sway the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbfrese Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 If you can't convince them otherwise, there's always working around the dorm rules. Does your son have a car he can store the wheel in? If so, he could charge the wheel elsewhere, like at the library while studying (presumably that is still done), in a classroom while attending a lecture, at a campus Starbucks, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z3n Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 5 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: CE Certificate for the V8 http://images.ewheels.com/V8-CE-MD.pdf So there were supposed to be other upgraded versions of V8 around? I see V8+, V8S, V8C, V8D and V8F mentioned in the certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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