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KingSong Notice about buying EUC on Ali express


Milli Zhao

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23 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

It seems market-department stupidity is contagious.

The good news for him, in the neverending chain of manufacturers shooting themselves in the foot (apparently contagious, as you said), Rockwheel can be the new rising star when KS and GW will price themselves out of the market. May the curse never hit him, because there's no manufacturer left after RW.

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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Rockwheel can be the new rising star when KS and GW will price themselves out of the market. May the curse never hit him, because there's no manufacturer left after RW.

There is a place for a GT18 on the markets right now more than ever. Listen closely to feedback on the GT16 and make The Ultimate EUC!

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19 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The good news for him, in the neverending chain of manufacturers shooting themselves in the foot (apparently contagious, as you said), Rockwheel can be the new rising star when KS and GW will price themselves out of the market. May the curse never hit him, because there's no manufacturer left after RW.

 

17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

There is a place for a GT18 on the markets right now more than ever. Listen closely to feedback on the GT16 and make The Ultimate EUC!

@陈小杰, @Yi Chen This is the chance of a lifetime for Rockwheel on the international market. Take a serious look at what people are asking for, and do this smartly.

Construct a wheel that:

  • Is 18" by 3.5" or 4" - a wheel that will be stable at speed, and that can take bad terrain without rattling your teeth.
  • Is close to waterproof, at least IP65 - rain, splashes or even hosing the EUC down shouldn't be a problem.
  • Has a stiffer, stronger body, without tendencies to grind against the wheel when you're on one foot.
  • Has stronger pedal arms of higher quality. with at least 6 screws in the chassi to give better unity.
  • Has an even stronger shaft, taking worries about cracks out of the equation.
  • Has a motor with a stator that is made to shed heat.
  • Has a low centre of gravity, like your GT16.
  • Has power to spare, at least 2000W nominal, preferably more, and 3600W peak, preferably much more.
  • Fat wires everywhere, to let high currents through without too much heat or resistance.
  • Electronics that can take everything the battery hands out.
  • Batteries that can hand out high voltage and high currents for a long time. You should go with something like Sanyo's 20700B that can hand out 16A and has 4Ah. Even your current configuration of 20s4p would give 84V, 1344Wh, with peak powers in the range of >5300W.
  • If possible with a resistor setup, that can take the charging current when going downhill and reaching the limit of the batteries.
  • Has a decent headlight with high lumen.
  • Has a built in trolley.
  • Has an off switch in the handle for convenient handling when you have to lift it up the stairs or up on the bus.
  • Has bigger pedals, with good anti-slip properties.
  • Has a thought through ergonomical design, that won't stick on your legs, chafe anywhere or require a bow-legged or unnatural stance.
  • Is easy to service.

If you give us that within the coming year, you could go from being the plucky challenger to the major brand everybody is swooning about. Especially if you stay out of the cartel tendencies of the other major brands.

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I might be totally off base, but my impression is that the sales of the GT16 haven't been as successful as they hoped for considering the amount of money invested into the project.  With the early failures and reports of problems, those early issues may have pushed prospective buyers to other brands while they were sorting things out with their second version models.  In this one wheeled business you get only one shot to make a strong positive statement, and issues early on tend to undermine consumer confidence in the product.  That is why sometimes going too cheap to save a penny is not wise when you lose the pound/dollar/euro in the long run. 

I'm all for the underdog in the race, and the GT16 is a sleek looking wheel with a lot of capability behind it.  I'm not sure if the Korean market may help bring more popularity to the brand with their Kspec'd version.  If Rockwheel has the funds to bring their wheels to the next level in terms of shell design and reliability, they certainly will still be a contender.  Right now although the case is cool to look at, the practicality aspects, and lack of waterproofing as compared to some other designs detracts slightly.  I almost bit the bullet and bought a GT16 myself, but after seeing some of the problems earlier on I've decided to wait.  There's always something better around the corner in this rapidly advancing one wheeled arena so things will improve.  I think Rockwheel needs to be inspired more by companies like Yamaha, Suzuki, and Honda to get their product into the motorcycle/moped class of all weather riding reliability and quality.  With one wheel the consumer does not want to hear about failures especially with a new product launch as their safety relies on rock solid dependability.  Unfortunately that level of quality doesn't come cheap so I do not know if the profit margins on these wheels allow for more than "toy grade" shells and components that are "good enough."

Moving to larger axles that can carry extra weight without fear of fracture, thicker quality wiring, developing more powerful motors, and creating a problem free control board that is weatherproof and has waterproof connectors might set higher standards for the industry.  It's difficult to say though where their focus is whether it is the quick buck or long term prosperity where customers keep returning for more.  Gotway knows that releasing a variety of new, varied, and interesting products will keep customers coming back for more.  It is the repeat sales that will reward a company in the long run.  Just look at how many wheels someone like Marty Backe has in their collection.  That word of mouth travels fast and inspires others to buy.

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11 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I might be totally off base, but my impression is that the sales of the GT16 haven't been as successful as they hoped for considering the amount of money invested into the project.  With the early failures and reports of problems, those early issues may have pushed prospective buyers to other brands while they were sorting things out with their second version models.  In this one wheeled business you get only one shot to make a strong positive statement, and issues early on tend to undermine consumer confidence in the product.  That is why sometimes going too cheap to save a penny is not wise when you lose the pound/dollar/euro in the long run. 

I'm all for the underdog in the race, and the GT16 is a sleek looking wheel with a lot of capability behind it.  I'm not sure if the Korean market may help bring more popularity to the brand with their Kspec'd version.  If Rockwheel has the funds to bring their wheels to the next level in terms of shell design and reliability, they certainly will still be a contender.  Right now although the case is cool to look at, the practicality aspects, and lack of waterproofing as compared to some other designs detracts slightly.  I almost bit the bullet and bought a GT16 myself, but after seeing some of the problems earlier on I've decided to wait.  There's always something better around the corner in this rapidly advancing one wheeled arena so things will improve.  I think Rockwheel needs to be inspired more by companies like Yamaha, Suzuki, and Honda to get their product into the motorcycle/moped class of all weather riding reliability and quality.  With one wheel the consumer does not want to hear about failures especially with a new product launch as their safety relies on rock solid dependability.  Unfortunately that level of quality doesn't come cheap so I do not know if the profit margins on these wheels allow for more than "toy grade" shells and components that are "good enough."

Moving to larger axles that can carry extra weight without fear of fracture, thicker quality wiring, developing more powerful motors, and creating a problem free control board that is weatherproof and has waterproof connectors might set higher standards for the industry.  It's difficult to say though where their focus is whether it is the quick buck or long term prosperity where customers keep returning for more.  Gotway knows that releasing a variety of new, varied, and interesting products will keep customers coming back for more.  It is the repeat sales that will reward a company in the long run.  Just look at how many wheels someone like Marty Backe has in their collection.  That word of mouth travels fast and inspires others to buy.

Yes I think it was a big mistake to let the wheel out of the reservation before it was truly ready. The lack of water-proofing should not be overstated though, I've ridden mine in really heavy rain, and there has been no problems other than me looking like a wet cat. There is the potential for a problem if a water splash hits just the wrong way, which is the reason I put coating on my board.

But as you say, first impressions last. The early release made for rumours of unreliability, and I'm afraid I may be party to that with my posts of my experiences. Overall though, I feel very confident in my wheel. If they would just have waited for a few months and ironed out the bugs before release, it might well be one of the big sellers. But as they probably had a lot of money invested, getting some back ASAP must have been too tempting.

As I understand it, the RW guys are not in it only for the money, even though money is of course not unimportant. They're creative people with strong ideas about what to do and how to do it. From what I've seen servicing and rebuilding my own EUC, the stuff is basically technically sound and the quality is by no means bad.

Sure there are problems, but mostly in fringe areas that probably stem from subcontracting metalworks and such. There are design mistakes made, like the cable compartment plexis, unnecessarily thin walls of the chassi in a couple of places, ridges where there should be none, and a peculiar pedal design. Those are not critical, but they are unfortunate - as they mean you don't see many videos of people doing stunts on a GT16, since a KS or an IM is so much more convenient for those kinds of tricks with their smoother pedal rims and rigid shells. That is really a pity with such an agile, powerful, and responsive wheel.

I don't know if they have the running capital to design a new wheel at this point in time, there's a lot of money involved in doing that after all. And it takes time from the investment til you reach breakeven. I do hope they do, since we really need some company that challenges the others with a different take on things. I don't know if they can fill that role - the one where you are a bit crazy, but combine that with security and thinking out of the box. I hope so, time will tell.

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On 2017/10/11 at 3:00 PM, Scatcat said:

 

@陈小杰, @Yi Chen This is the chance of a lifetime for Rockwheel on the international market. Take a serious look at what people are asking for, and do this smartly.

Construct a wheel that:

  • Is 18" by 3.5" or 4" - a wheel that will be stable at speed, and that can take bad terrain without rattling your teeth.
  • Is close to waterproof, at least IP65 - rain, splashes or even hosing the EUC down shouldn't be a problem.
  • Has a stiffer, stronger body, without tendencies to grind against the wheel when you're on one foot.
  • Has stronger pedal arms of higher quality. with at least 6 screws in the chassi to give better unity.
  • Has an even stronger shaft, taking worries about cracks out of the equation.
  • Has a motor with a stator that is made to shed heat.
  • Has a low centre of gravity, like your GT16.
  • Has power to spare, at least 2000W nominal, preferably more, and 3600W peak, preferably much more.
  • Fat wires everywhere, to let high currents through without too much heat or resistance.
  • Electronics that can take everything the battery hands out.
  • Batteries that can hand out high voltage and high currents for a long time. You should go with something like Sanyo's 20700B that can hand out 16A and has 4Ah. Even your current configuration of 20s4p would give 84V, 1344Wh, with peak powers in the range of >5300W.
  • If possible with a resistor setup, that can take the charging current when going downhill and reaching the limit of the batteries.
  • Has a decent headlight with high lumen.
  • Has a built in trolley.
  • Has an off switch in the handle for convenient handling when you have to lift it up the stairs or up on the bus.
  • Has bigger pedals, with good anti-slip properties.
  • Has a thought through ergonomical design, that won't stick on your legs, chafe anywhere or require a bow-legged or unnatural stance.
  • Is easy to service.

If you give us that within the coming year, you could go from being the plucky challenger to the major brand everybody is swooning about. Especially if you stay out of the cartel tendencies of the other major brands.

I think Rockwheel become influence on the interenation market once all mentions above had done ,lol but it's diffcult to change all at the same time .Thanks for ur suggestions that is detailed  and authentic.I think Rockwheel  looking  into the market  and busying in the job of GT18 now.Lol,I think maybe.;)

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On 2017/10/12 at 8:40 AM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I might be totally off base, but my impression is that the sales of the GT16 haven't been as successful as they hoped for considering the amount of money invested into the project.  With the early failures and reports of problems, those early issues may have pushed prospective buyers to other brands while they were sorting things out with their second version models.  In this one wheeled business you get only one shot to make a strong positive statement, and issues early on tend to undermine consumer confidence in the product.  That is why sometimes going too cheap to save a penny is not wise when you lose the pound/dollar/euro in the long run. 

I'm all for the underdog in the race, and the GT16 is a sleek looking wheel with a lot of capability behind it.  I'm not sure if the Korean market may help bring more popularity to the brand with their Kspec'd version.  If Rockwheel has the funds to bring their wheels to the next level in terms of shell design and reliability, they certainly will still be a contender.  Right now although the case is cool to look at, the practicality aspects, and lack of waterproofing as compared to some other designs detracts slightly.  I almost bit the bullet and bought a GT16 myself, but after seeing some of the problems earlier on I've decided to wait.  There's always something better around the corner in this rapidly advancing one wheeled arena so things will improve.  I think Rockwheel needs to be inspired more by companies like Yamaha, Suzuki, and Honda to get their product into the motorcycle/moped class of all weather riding reliability and quality.  With one wheel the consumer does not want to hear about failures especially with a new product launch as their safety relies on rock solid dependability.  Unfortunately that level of quality doesn't come cheap so I do not know if the profit margins on these wheels allow for more than "toy grade" shells and components that are "good enough."

Moving to larger axles that can carry extra weight without fear of fracture, thicker quality wiring, developing more powerful motors, and creating a problem free control board that is weatherproof and has waterproof connectors might set higher standards for the industry.  It's difficult to say though where their focus is whether it is the quick buck or long term prosperity where customers keep returning for more.  Gotway knows that releasing a variety of new, varied, and interesting products will keep customers coming back for more.  It is the repeat sales that will reward a company in the long run.  Just look at how many wheels someone like Marty Backe has in their collection.  That word of mouth travels fast and inspires others to buy.

I didn't know such an sever problem happened in Rockwheel GT16 that is a pity for some player.For there without any inform or advertisement  when the troble had became worse.And even we had infromed and posted something change and upgrade.There still hinder player to buy it .

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1 hour ago, Barry Chen said:

I think Rockwheel become influence on the interenation market once all mentions above had done ,lol but it's diffcult to change all at the same time .Thanks for ur suggestions that is detailed  and authentic.I think Rockwheel  looking  into the market  and busying in the job of GT18 now.Lol,I think maybe.;)

Actually, while the list is long, there are things that are more important and less important. At least as far as I'm concerned.

  • Four or six screws between pedal arms and chassi is not strictly necessary, but if not they could at least back it up with a metal plate on the chassi side.
  • The motor stator that sheds heat, is coupled with the high wattage powers I talk about, and is about dependability in really hilly terrain.
  • Using 20700 rather than 18650 is mostly about using cells with high capacity and high C-values. For the moment the best 20700 cells are better than the best 18650 cells.
  • The resistor to avoid overcharging thing, is about cutouts downhill. There should be some headroom.
  • Headlights and off-switch in the handle, are selling points, not deal-breakers - just as the built in trolley is a selling point.

The above are things to take into consideration, but things I find very important are:

  • Stability at speed, grip when turning, and good suspension qualities in the tyre. That is easier with a larger wheel and fatter tyre. 18" x 4.1" like the NB1Z might not be necessary, but 18" x 3.5" would be wonderful.
  • A good power-chain with high capacity, high amperage batteries, a controller that can take it all and dish out what's needed, cables that won't act like resistor wires in a toaster, and a motor that can swallow all those watts and convert them to high torque and reasonable RPM. Those are things that are make or break for a new EUC.
  • Ergonomics, with good large pedals mounted on good pedal arms, connected to a large shaft - with a shell that won't catch on your clothes, good padding that supports without making you bow-legged.
  • Dependability with a strong and rigid shell that are secured against water getting in, servicability and all those pesky little details that should just work - like mud-flaps, pedals that stay up when you raise them, lights, battery-LEDs and so on.

I would also advice RW to cooperate with the dev(s) of Wheellog for ideas on what to do with their own app, and to secure the BT communication with a password.

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18 minutes ago, Nick R said:

If something is not right with the purchase, what are the remedial options buying from China or any overseas merchants ?
Who has ordered from Ali Express ? What's the turn around time ? 
 
 

Depends on the store. You HAVE to check that they leave you a warranty at all.

The basic protection is if you don't get the package or get the wrong stuff. Then AliExpress steps in and forces reimbursement if you and the seller can't agree to a remedy. I've not been in that position, but I've heard comments about them being harder on the stores than eBay.

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1 hour ago, Nick R said:

If something is not right with the purchase, what are the remedial options buying from China or any overseas merchants ?
Who has ordered from Ali Express ? What's the turn around time ? 
 
 

I have had deliveries from fast 8-10 to slow 25 days...

Depends a bit on luck, when the “sending distributor” at the end brings your wheel on the plane after he is having it in his warehouse.

(this process can not be influenced by the seller)

On defects , you normally negotiate that the seller will send you the correct spare parts.

 

But i would say in general buying on aliexpress is only for people who know their wheels a bit...and are able to use a screwdriver to open it and are not afraid on the buying at all. its just nothing for someone who is used to exchange a product when it has some scratches, or after 10 days regrets his buy or trying to use a warranty till the last minute. i guess you all know what i mean :-)

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6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

I have had deliveries from fast 8-10 to slow 25 days...

Depends a bit on luck, when the “sending distributor” at the end brings your wheel on the plane after he is having it in his warehouse.

(this process can not be influenced by the seller)

On defects , you normally negotiate that the seller will send you the correct spare parts.

 

But i would say in general buying on aliexpress is only for people who know their wheels a bit...and are able to use a screwdriver to open it and are not afraid on the buying at all. its just nothing for someone who is used to exchange a product when it has some scratches, or after 10 days regrets his buy or trying to use a warranty till the last minute. i guess you all know what i mean :-)

I think EUC is kinda like tampons.  Once it's used.. noone really wants it returned.
Who knows how much it's been scratched up.  

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Although it's likely best to purchase a new wheel from a local dealer, you could try contacting AliExpress dealers through private message.  Some have eBay storefronts as well so they may still be able to work something out under the radar.  Just be certain not to expect any support from local dealers or KS for these "grey market" purchases.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello,

I can confirm you that I received the product yesterday, in perfect conditioning, on time, and it is actually a KS wheel Sport (KS-16S, black rubbed), written Kingsong on the paddle. Thank you all for your advise. The final cost is 900€ (950€ - 5% rebat if you navigate to AliExpress from Igraal.com), so it saved me 1000€.

I have wrapped it to prevent some scratches of my learning curve, ..., I hope it will be a curve, not straight line stuck to the x axe ;-)

My idea is to start on the balcony, 5th floor of Parisian flat, but narrow enough to grab a support on both side, isn't it ?

 

IMG_9038.JPG

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On 25.9.2017 at 4:06 AM, Rehab1 said:

Well that was interesting. Wonder if Gotway will follow the same paradigm but also create a safer market?

Gotway already does. From their homepage " 

To guarantee product's quality&authencity and good aftersales service, our company does not allow any GotWay products sold via Aliexpress. - Kebye Company

for more information, please contact : donald_gotway@kebye.com|service_gotway@kebye.com"

 

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14 hours ago, Geoffroy said:

I can confirm you that I received the product yesterday, in perfect conditioning, on time, and it is actually a KS wheel Sport (KS-16S, black rubbed), written Kingsong on the paddle. 

 

Congratulations! Glad you decided against using the balcony railing for support during your training. Take your time and be safe!

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12 hours ago, EU GUY said:

Gotway already does. From their homepage " 

To guarantee product's quality&authencity and good aftersales service, our company does not allow any GotWay products sold via Aliexpress. - Kebye Company

for more information, please contact : donald_gotway@kebye.com|service_gotway@kebye.com"

 

It should be shit simple to issue certificates to approved sellers on AliExpress. I wouldn't be surprised if AE themselves would play along and make sure the certifications are legit, just like they have their payment protection scheme.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that a "local" seller (as in: on the same f-ing continent) gives better service than an AliSeller. And unless you're in the same country and/or have the means of hiring an attorney to protect your claims, the whole thing is about goodwill and reputation anyway.

So this stinks.

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12 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

It should be shit simple to issue certificates to approved sellers on AliExpress. I wouldn't be surprised if AE themselves would play along and make sure the certifications are legit, just like they have their payment protection scheme.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that a "local" seller (as in: on the same f-ing continent) gives better service than an AliSeller. And unless you're in the same country and/or have the means of hiring an attorney to protect your claims, the whole thing is about goodwill and reputation anyway.

So this stinks.

There a lot of things that stink when looking at what GW is doing....

 

When you look at the inventory of "green travelling" shop (Owner is afaik a Gotway employee) and look at the Prices, they are quite good and including Transport etc as allways.

Now the newest shit:

Change the Destination Country to France and  -voila- you have a Price which is about 300-500 bucks higher than for example spain, Germany or any other european Country!

And believe me....has nothing todo with different Transport costs!!!

 

 

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Just now, KingSong69 said:

There a lot of things that stink when looking at what GW is doing....

 

When you look at the inventory of "green travelling" shop (Owner is afaik a Gotway employee) and look at the Prices, they are quite good and including Transport etc as allways.

Now the newest shit:

Change the Destination Country to France and  -voila- you have a Price which is about 300-500 bucks higher than for example spain, Germany or any other european Country!

And believe me....has nothing todo with different Transport costs!!!

 

They're doing the same f-ing mistakes as the movie and music industries. Especially the movie industry with their dogged idiocy of region coding, different release dates and so on and so forth ad nauseam.

Let the bloody EUC-shops live or die on their own merits. If the French shops want to charge you twice the Ali price, then they have to bloody well explain why I would like to pay that much extra...

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6 hours ago, Scatcat said:

It should be shit simple to issue certificates to approved sellers on AliExpress. I wouldn't be surprised if AE themselves would play along and make sure the certifications are legit, just like they have their payment protection scheme.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that a "local" seller (as in: on the same f-ing continent) gives better service than an AliSeller. And unless you're in the same country and/or have the means of hiring an attorney to protect your claims, the whole thing is about goodwill and reputation anyway.

So this stinks.

And what about the fact that dealers don't always sell the wheel that you're interested in? The only place that I could buy an Mten3 was AliExpress.

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