Barry Chen Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 When refer to waterproof and heat radiation for EUC,there are many players interest to the waterproof function.But when face accident ,they will be recall heat radiation for EUC maybe much more improtant. Meanwhile this manily reason cause accident are many factor include player and production.In my opinion,I will choice which onne is better in heat radiation such Rockwheel GT16.I am suggest that riding in rainy day. Waterproof is not good for heat dissipation and also that is not safe riding in raining or wet places.Even you can riding in rainy day that will destory your EUC for not so long .Do you know why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 What if an EUC were to go to water cooling, whereby most of the electronics are in sealed boxes, but the heat is removed by, presumably, heat sinks and water cooling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Water cooling requires a pump. Would make packaging quite the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Heat radiation and waterproofing do not exclude each other. It's just a matter of designing the internals in a way, that no significant amount of heat is produced in an area that is not cooled properly, like for example the motor wires...... That's an old hat, we have seen the insulation on Gotway motor wires melting with short circuiting for half a year now, maybe even longer than that. If you have something that produced heat in an EUC, just slab it on a heat sink and make a hole in the inner shell, so the heat sink is ventilated by the turning wheel. Add a proper seal between the heat sink and the shell, and you get proper heat radiation (well, actually more convection than radiation) and a waterproof design. It's not that hard. If the cables get to hot, you don't have a problem with heat dissipation, you have a problem with cable sizing. And if large enough cables don't fit through the tiny axle, and at the same time the pedal hangers won't bear the torque at the axle connection for longer than 500 km, you have a problem with your axle sizing. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said: Heat radiation and waterproofing do not exclude each other. It's just a matter of designing the internals in a way, that no significant amount of heat is produced in an area that is not cooled properly, like for example the motor wires...... That's an old hat, we have seen the insulation on Gotway motor wires melting with short circuiting for half a year now, maybe even longer than that. If you have something that produced heat in an EUC, just slab it on a heat sink and make a hole in the inner shell, so the heat sink is ventilated by the turning wheel. Add a proper seal between the heat sink and the shell, and you get proper heat radiation (well, actually more convection than radiation) and a waterproof design. It's not that hard. If the cables get to hot, you don't have a problem with heat dissipation, you have a problem with cable sizing. And if large enough cables don't fit through the tiny axle, and at the same time the pedal hangers won't bear the torque at the axle connection for longer than 500 km, you have a problem with your axle sizing. [/rant] So axle sizes should be big. Like really really absurdly big. How hard can that be? I can't see any disadvantages at all in making huge axles, but of course I'm rather biased since I have the infamous KS14c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 These are vehicles that travel at pretty high speeds outside so they should be weatherproofed against the elements. Who can predict when a rainstorm suddenly occurs when riding or a splash from a puddle happens? IPS control boards are entirely enclosed in a metal container, and we rarely hear about IPS failures. I think it would be trivial to do what IPS has been doing for years to completely enclose the control boards. The GT16 is almost there with the large heatsink and cooling fins underneath the board, but if they took it one step further and incorporated a top cover with a gasket seal (think Tupperware container made of aluminum) that would remove all worries about water ingress. Or use some 3M conformal waterproof spray over the electronics at least. Incorporate waterproof connectors everywhere like the auto and motorcycle industry and seal up the hub motor covers with a waterproof gasket or simple silicone seal. Seal up the battery packs (think waterproof bag that some cameras use), and these wheels should be able to handle almost anything they encounter (maybe even a dip in the lake a la @Rehab1)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: These are vehicles that travel at pretty high speeds outside so they should be weatherproofed against the elements. Who can predict when a rainstorm suddenly occurs when riding or a splash from a puddle happens? IPS control boards are entirely enclosed in a metal container, and we rarely hear about IPS failures. I think it would be trivial to do what IPS has been doing for years to completely enclose the control boards. The GT16 is almost there with the large heatsink and cooling fins underneath the board, but if they took it one step further and incorporated a top cover with a gasket seal (think Tupperware container made of aluminum) that would remove all worries about water ingress. Or use some 3M conformal waterproof spray over the electronics at least. Incorporate waterproof connectors everywhere like the auto and motorcycle industry and seal up the hub motor covers with a waterproof gasket or simple silicone seal. Seal up the battery packs (think waterproof bag that some cameras use), and these wheels should be able to handle almost anything they encounter (maybe even a dip in the lake a la @Rehab1)! I just don't get the obsession that you guys have with rain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Marty Backe said: I just don't get the obsession that you guys have with rain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I just don't get the obsession that you guys have with rain That's because you live in sunny California! It's 6°C here with a spritz of rain currently. I rode a couple days ago on a windy 12°C evening, and I froze my hands and eardrums leading to a dull headache from the windchill. I was thinking of riding tonight, but I have to find a scarf, thermal undies, and warmer jacket! Here the weather changes on a dime. That's why some of us are a bit cautious about rain. That plus it just makes sense or they wouldn't bother weatherproofing cars and motorcycle for the LA market. Puddles and pools happen! Don't jinx yourself now and find out what happens to your favorite Mten3 too close to the water! People were questioning why I wear a helmet and safety gear while riding on a Ninebot... it's better safe than sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: That's because you live in sunny California! It's 6°C here with spritz of rain currently. I rode a couple days ago on a windy 12°C evening, and I froze my hands and eardrums leading to a dull headache from the windchill. I was thinking of riding tonight, but I have to find a scarf, thermal undies, and warmer jacket! Wow, Bangkok is effin' cold! I guess global warming is fake news after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 54 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: That's because you live in sunny California! It's 6°C here with spritz of rain currently. I rode a couple days ago on a windy 12°C evening, and I froze my hands and eardrums leading to a dull headache from the windchill. I was thinking of riding tonight, but I have to find a scarf, thermal undies, and warmer jacket! Here the weather changes on a dime. That's why some of us are a bit about rain. That plus it just makes sense or they wouldn't bother weatherproofing cars and motorcycle for the LA market. Puddles and pools happen! Don't jinx yourself now and find out what happens to favorite Mten3 too close to the water! People were questioning why I wear a helmet and safety gear while riding on a Ninebot... it's better safe than sorry! I'm sure you knew that I was being ironic. We Southern Californians know how good we have it, but wow, I didn't think it was already so cold in other parts. What a short riding season you have Who says the Mten3 has to be concerned about puddles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Seal up the battery packs (think waterproof bag that some cameras use), and these wheels should be able to handle almost anything they encounter (maybe even a dip in the lake a la @Rehab1)! Hey my KS runs great! I like your idea but manufacturers would have to go to extreme efforts to completely waterproof a wheel. It definately would be cutting edge technology. Think of the awesome tricks @Hirsute and @Jonathan Tolhurst could perform off of a diving board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: That's because you live in sunny California! It's 6°C here with spritz of rain currently. I rode a couple days ago on a windy 12°C evening, and I froze my hands and eardrums leading to a dull headache from the windchill. I was thinking of riding tonight, but I have to find a scarf, thermal undies, and warmer jacket! Here the weather changes on a dime. That's why some of us are a bit about rain. That plus it just makes sense or they wouldn't bother weatherproofing cars and motorcycle for the LA market. Puddles and pools happen! Don't jinx yourself now and find out what happens to favorite Mten3 too close to the water! People were questioning why I wear a helmet and safety gear while riding on a Ninebot... it's better safe than sorry! You know, that movie trailer really does make Los Angeles weather look bo-ring. Sun, Sun, Sun, Sun, and more Sun. Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Just kill me now - there's snow forecast tonight! Keep on rubbin' it in Marty! I might have to get me a snowmobile suit it feels like winter already. I definitely gotta move somewhere warmer. I did manage to get a ride in. The sweat pants under my work pants really helped along with a T-shirt, hoodie pullover, and fall motorcycle jacket. Fingers still froze as the Hillbilly full finger wrist guards let cool air in from the backside... also should have worn that scarf! Battery was also not so happy as it went down to 10 km remaining faster than normal. Bot temp was 33°C at the end of my ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Just kill me now - there's snow forecast tonight! Keep on rubbin' it in Marty! I might have to get me a snowmobile suit it feels like winter already. I definitely gotta move somewhere warmer. I did manage to get a ride in. The sweat pants under my work pants really helped along with a T-shirt, hoodie pullover, and fall motorcycle jacket. Fingers still froze as the Hillbilly full finger wrist guards let cool air in from the backside... also should have worn that scarf! Battery was also not so happy as it went down to 10 km remaining faster than normal. Bot temp was 33°C at the end of my ride. Have you said before where exactly you live? I.e., please tell me where you live , as specific as you feel comfortable making public. I promise not to pull up Street View and start hunting for a stray unicyclist in the background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I am everywhere and nowhere. Currently I have escaped my captors in Bangkok and returned to chilly Calgary, Alberta. Home of the Stampede, Flames hockey team, and bad weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Chen Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 13 hours ago, LanghamP said: What if an EUC were to go to water cooling, whereby most of the electronics are in sealed boxes, but the heat is removed by, presumably, heat sinks and water cooling? In fact ,the electronics are in sealed boxes.Its heat removed by heat sinks and also air outlet.I am wonder why Tesla cooling system just with ventilator with air outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Chen Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 13 hours ago, ir_fuel said: Water cooling requires a pump. Would make packaging quite the challenge. Yes,so it's a technology challenges.It not only needs scienct cooling system but also the material of mainboard.It seems that general material is easy cause accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Chen Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 12 hours ago, Slaughthammer said: Heat radiation and waterproofing do not exclude each other. It's just a matter of designing the internals in a way, that no significant amount of heat is produced in an area that is not cooled properly, like for example the motor wires...... That's an old hat, we have seen the insulation on Gotway motor wires melting with short circuiting for half a year now, maybe even longer than that. If you have something that produced heat in an EUC, just slab it on a heat sink and make a hole in the inner shell, so the heat sink is ventilated by the turning wheel. Add a proper seal between the heat sink and the shell, and you get proper heat radiation (well, actually more convection than radiation) and a waterproof design. It's not that hard. If the cables get to hot, you don't have a problem with heat dissipation, you have a problem with cable sizing. And if large enough cables don't fit through the tiny axle, and at the same time the pedal hangers won't bear the torque at the axle connection for longer than 500 km, you have a problem with your axle sizing. [/rant] Your analysis is very reasonable.You want to make good at heat radiation and waterproofing together is diffcult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Chen Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 12 hours ago, LanghamP said: So axle sizes should be big. Like really really absurdly big. How hard can that be? I can't see any disadvantages at all in making huge axles, but of course I'm rather biased since I have the infamous KS14c. And so we have to familiar with our own EUC,make good at riding protection.Set up your riding speed for safe and check the condition(voltage,battery and temperature ect) of EUC when you riding . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I am everywhere and nowhere. Currently I have escaped my captors in Bangkok and returned to chilly Calgary, Alberta. Home of the Stampede, Flames hockey team, and bad weather. Nice Too bad you don't have any nice scenery to compensate for the iffy weather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Chen Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: These are vehicles that travel at pretty high speeds outside so they should be weatherproofed against the elements. Who can predict when a rainstorm suddenly occurs when riding or a splash from a puddle happens? IPS control boards are entirely enclosed in a metal container, and we rarely hear about IPS failures. I think it would be trivial to do what IPS has been doing for years to completely enclose the control boards. The GT16 is almost there with the large heatsink and cooling fins underneath the board, but if they took it one step further and incorporated a top cover with a gasket seal (think Tupperware container made of aluminum) that would remove all worries about water ingress. Or use some 3M conformal waterproof spray over the electronics at least. Incorporate waterproof connectors everywhere like the auto and motorcycle industry and seal up the hub motor covers with a waterproof gasket or simple silicone seal. Seal up the battery packs (think waterproof bag that some cameras use), and these wheels should be able to handle almost anything they encounter (maybe even a dip in the lake a la @Rehab1)! That's a high-tech of waterproof.But maybe the cost and structure design we have to consider.We not only consider the main board waterproof but the battery in the same time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Just kill me now - there's snow forecast tonight! Keep on rubbin' it in Marty! I might have to get me a snowmobile suit it feels like winter already. I definitely gotta move somewhere warmer. I did manage to get a ride in. The sweat pants under my work pants really helped along with a T-shirt, hoodie pullover, and fall motorcycle jacket. Fingers still froze as the Hillbilly full finger wrist guards let cool air in from the backside... also should have worn that scarf! Battery was also not so happy as it went down to 10 km remaining faster than normal. Bot temp was 33°C at the end of my ride. I underestimated how cold people get riding these things. Maybe it's because of the surface area of the body being exposed to wind drag while upright. I didn't realize Calgary got cold quite so quickly. I'm in southern Ontario and it's been unseasonably warm for the most part. I have an expensive Canada Goose down jacket that is warm as hell, but I don't want to risk crashing on the wheel and damaging it. I wish I'd paid a little more attention to winter performance when I was deciding on a wheel. I didn't really account for the possibility that I'd be operating with reduced battery efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Maybe with the larger battery packs there's less of an influence from colder temperatures? My Ninebot with the 320 wh battery goes about 16-17 km averaging 20 kph over the trip of flats, hills, bumpy sidewalks, and some downhills with my 167 lb weight.. After that, 10 km range remains, but you can hit the low power speed limiter which slows the wheel down to somewhere about 10 kph which is super annoying but safe. You really don't want to go 10 km at 10 kph, believe you me! At 5°C the drop is quite noticeable on my battery pack, but I managed to get home before the limp mode engaged. Even at 12°C you have to factor in the windchill. Dressing up warmly helps, but your face still gets cold similar to skiing downhill. If you can wear a hoodie under your helmet that helps. I wasn't kidding about the scarf. Below 4-5 celcius I have no urge to go riding outside even if the road conditions are dry and snowfree! But that's just me - I see hardy people jogging and cycling around in winter so maybe it's not too bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Chen Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I am everywhere and nowhere. Currently I have escaped my captors in Bangkok and returned to chilly Calgary, Alberta. Home of the Stampede, Flames hockey team, and bad weather. W e are not live in a same earth.I am here is very hot .The battery efficieny sharpply drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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