Popular Post Marty Backe Posted August 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2017 In this video I demonstrate my attempt at tightening the Monster axle nuts, which have loosened on my wheel. A big shout-out and thanks to @Rehab1 for buying, fabricating, and shipping me the custom 24mm socket that was used in this video After tightening the axle nuts I took it for a 20 mile ride and can say that the process was a success, if not a perfect success. I have about 600 miles on the Monster and maybe I'll get a few hundred more before having to do a full tear-down of the wheel to repair the axle/pedal assembly wedges/shims. 2 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: In this video I demonstrate my attempt at tightening the Monster axle nuts, which have loosened on my wheel. A big shout-out and thanks to @Rehab1 for buying, fabricating, and shipping me the custom 24mm socket that was used in this video Your most welcome Marty and thank you for the kind accolades! It was a true pleasure! Great video production as always. I love your idea of using the Shopmate Bench as a repair station. It really secured the Monster's wheel throughout the repair process. Marking the nut and shaft prior to tightening was an excellent idea. It clearly demonstrated just how much you were able to advance the nut. Your Big Guns really got their workout! 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mrd777 Posted August 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2017 This is why I love this forum and community of EUC riders, everyone shares and truly helps each other out. SUPER generous of Rehab1, (Dan) NICE! Fabulous informative video Marty, very helpful to us. THANKS 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pard Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Couple of questions: After tightening the axle nuts, is it possible the remaining slack in the system is the electronics not being as tight as you may expect? What setting do you have the pedals set at in the app, soft vs hard? What remains loose enough after all that torque applied to the axle nut, that would allow a pivot around the axle of relatively low inertia? Also, any concern that you may be weakening the axle by overtorqueing the nut? What inch/pound setting was on that torque wrench? For reference, a motorcycle rear wheel axle nut is often torqued to 70 inch pounds. You look like you put at least 100 on that axle nut. A nut on an axle can always be turned beyond recommended torque values. Any chance too much side load is being placed on the bearings with all that torque? Perhaps a friction washer/plate is needed in the system? Thanks for taking the time to record and share your work . Edited August 14, 2017 by Pard 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Pard said: Couple of questions: After tightening the axle nuts, is it possible the remaining slack in the system is the electronics not being as tight as you may expect? What setting do you have the pedals set at in the app, soft vs hard? What remains loose enough after all that torque applied to the axle nut, that would allow a pivot around the axle of relatively low inertia? Also, any concern that you may be weakening the axle by overtorqueing the nut? What inch/pound setting was on that torque wrench? For reference, a motorcycle rear wheel axle nut is often torqued to 70 inch pounds. You look like you put at least 100 on that axle nut. A nut on an axle can always be turned beyond recommended torque values. Any chance too much side load is being placed on the bearings with all that torque? Perhaps a friction washer/plate is needed in the system? Thanks for taking the time to record and share your work . The remaining slack is not due to electronics. There are other local Monster riders and I can compare their newer wheels to mine. There is no slope in the new wheels. I ride the Monster in the hard setting. I didn't use a torque wrench, so I have no idea. Based on the experience of others I wasn't too concerned about applying too much torque. The final fix will be to eventually tear the wheel completely apart and replace the worn axle wedges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 5 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Your most welcome Marty and thank you for the kind accolades! It was a true pleasure! Great video production as always. I love your idea of using the Shopmate Bench as a repair station. It really secured the Monster's wheel throughout the repair process. Marking the nut and shaft prior to tightening was an excellent idea. It clearly demonstrated just how much you were able to advance the nut. Your Big Guns really got their workout! Thanks again. I really should have worn my muscle shirt while filming this - my bad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Nice job on the video and securing of the pedal supports! I wonder whether applying downward pressing force to the breaker might be easier. When I tighten the lugnuts on my car to rotate tires, I usually apply downward rotational force rather than upward as I have the advantage of putting my weight into it. I try to give it a smooth motion until it clicks. Just FYI for those who haven't used one, you can identify a torque wrench as it usually has a handle that you can turn to adjust the torque setting or a displacement sort of gauge. @Rehab1 have you considered ordering a few more of these sockets and charging people $20-25 or some amount as I bet these sockets will be a popular item! Edited August 14, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Thanks again. I really should have worn my muscle shirt while filming this - my bad My wife was disappointed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Nice job on the video and securing of the pedal supports! I wonder whether applying downward pressing force to the breaker might be easier. When I tighten the lugnuts on my car to rotate tires, I usually apply downward rotational force rather than upward as I have the advantage of putting my weight into it. I try to give it a smooth motion until it clicks. Just FYI for those who haven't used one, you can identify a torque wrench as it usually has a handle that you can turn to adjust the torque setting or a displacement sort of gauge. @Rehab1 have you considered ordering a few more of these sockets and charging people $20-25 or some amount as I bet these sockets will be a popular item! I like this torque wrench you recommended the best! The floating arrow type torque wrenches are known to not be as accurate. Do we know what are the exact torque specifications for a 24mm nut going over the hollowed out shaft are? I found this chart on bolts that depicts a 24mm bolt can be torqued anywhere between 203 -926 Foot Pounds depending on the relative strength of the bolt. I know an EUC axle with a hollowed out center is not a bolt so how do you determine the maximum allowed tightness? This would be excellent information for all EUCs! Edited August 14, 2017 by Rehab1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: @Rehab1 have you considered ordering a few more of these sockets and charging people $20-25 or some amount as I bet these sockets will be a popular item! I never finish my thought! Sorry Hunka! Great idea but I'm hoping @Jason McNeil will eventually supply unique repair tools in the future. The sockets could easily be produced in China and included in his wheel shipments to save on freight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Factoring in the aluminum alloy anti-rotational inserts, I wonder whether they might influence how much torque should be applied to the axle nut as I imagine they would deform under pressure. I know people have sheared off their lugnut bolts on their cars by over-tightening or using an impact wrench to secure the lugs. Too bad there isn't a better way of doing it. Maybe KingSong and their top bolt solution is better or maybe with the French and their steel alloy inserts and slotted retainer there will be less problems? Maybe moving to a larger axle in general will help distribute the torque forces over a larger flat surface and allow for thicker axles so people can tighten these all they want? Edited August 14, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Factoring in the aluminum allow anti-rotational inserts, I wonder whether they might influence how much torque should be applied to the axle nut as I imagine they would deform under pressure. I know people have sheared off their lugnut bolts on their cars by over-tightening or using an impact wrench to secure the lugs. Too bad there isn't a better way of doing it. Maybe KingSong and their top bolt solution is better or maybe with the French and their steel alloy inserts and slotted retainer there will be less problems? Maybe moving to a larger axle in general will help distribute the torque forces over a larger flat surface and allow for thicker axles so people can tighten these all they want? You gave a valid point. Maybe @Jason McNeil can ask GW about the torque specs. Possible there is no set torque rating and the GW techs just grunt like @Marty Backe and call it a day. Pretty sure the GW's techs don't have the massive arm girth of Mighty Marty. Edited August 14, 2017 by Rehab1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Rehab1 said: My wife and I, along with Hunka Hunka and Pard were disappointed! Let me correct that other posting... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Let me correct that other posting... Ah.....I've been hijacked, spammed and hacked all at the same time! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 You got the triple whammy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pard Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Some more ideas about axle nut security. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) I get some plastic creeking noices from around the pedals of my msuper when accelerating and breaking might this be due to lose Axels? The body doesn't have any slack like in the video but the pedals do creek. Taking it apart I noticed that the rods going through the pedals were slightly bent which forced me to use a hammer to push them out, is that just from going over curbs? I have 3000km on it so I guess it's about time to get new foot pedals, rods and washers (buying em at speedyfeet.co.uk) but I wonder if this would fix the creeking noice or whether it's a loose axel causing this. Edit: hmmm... due to the rods being bent the part they go through (connected to motor) would probably also be slightly bent on the inside of the cylindrical hole the rods goes through which would help bend any new rods I install. Can you buy the metal brackets connected to the motor anywhere? Edited August 15, 2017 by xiiijojjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 2 hours ago, xiiijojjo said: I get some plastic creeking noices from around the pedals of my msuper when accelerating and breaking might this be due to lose Axels? The body doesn't have any slack like in the video but the pedals do creek. Taking it apart I noticed that the rods going through the pedals were slightly bent which forced me to use a hammer to push them out, is that just from going over curbs? I have 3000km on it so I guess it's about time to get new foot pedals, rods and washers (buying em at speedyfeet.co.uk) but I wonder if this would fix the creeking noice or whether it's a loose axel causing this. Edit: hmmm... due to the rods being bent the part they go through (connected to motor) would probably also be slightly bent on the inside of the cylindrical hole the rods goes through which would help bend any new rods I install. Can you buy the metal brackets connected to the motor anywhere? No, creaking noises have nothing to do with the axle nuts. And bent pedal rods absolutely do occur from curb jumping, something I never do (the rods on all of my wheels are nice and straight). I've never seen the motor brackets sold by any dealer, but you could ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Pard said: Some more ideas about axle nut security. Nice videos. But my (and others) problems are not because the nuts actually loosen, but the wedges which press on the axle get deformed over time and loosen. The axle nuts then must be tightened more to press the wedges tighter against the axle. At some point the wedges have to be repaired because tightening the nuts only helps a little. So that's what I was attempting to do in this video - compress the wedges tighter against the axle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 52 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: No, creaking noises have nothing to do with the axle nuts. And bent pedal rods absolutely do occur from curb jumping, something I never do (the rods on all of my wheels are nice and straight). I've never seen the motor brackets sold by any dealer, but you could ask them. I have to say i have another opinion... Creaking noises of plastic when accelerating and braking hard, was exactly how my "loose" axle nuts and defect wedges symptom started! When it is not "that worse"...your shell/case holds the pedalarms in place, and because of that you get the noises on weight changing. Thsi happens especially, when only ONE side is loose....then the other side and the case/shell can hold all in place, just these creaking noises occur. When 1 radwerkstatt opened my wheel, he said that my wedges look as bad as they are from another wheel :-) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: I have to say i have another opinion... Creaking noises of plastic when accelerating and braking hard, was exactly how my "loose" axle nuts and defect wedges symptom started! When it is not "that worse"...your shell/case holds the pedalarms in place, and because of that you get the noises on weight changing. Thsi happens especially, when only ONE side is loose....then the other side and the case/shell can hold all in place, just these creaking noises occur. When 1 radwerkstatt opened my wheel, he said that my wedges look as bad as they are from another wheel :-) I stand corrected. Sometimes the more I think I understand EUCs, the less I actually do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jason McNeil Posted August 15, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) Joey has been working hard on trying to find a workable solution. Fundamentally the fault is one of the sub-grade metal, Gotway in their infinite wisdom, decided to use for the spacer. Our communication to GW: "1) Monster/MSuper metal spacers: see image below, the alloy of metal that's used for the spacers/brackets is not durable enough. This is likely to be an effect of the torque magnification effect of using such a large Wheel, being transmitted down to this component. You need to use a stronger grade, & thicker, piece of metal like stainless steel. " Gotway's Response: "the materials of spacers are the same as motor culumn we currently used. Msuper 2 spacers would be much hard than current spacers, but it is not good for motor culumn as it is harder than current motor culumn, it may hit the current motor culumn when there is crash. We have did some small change on the metal spacers. So please supply some motor code of these wheels has such problem for me to check if these wheels are using new spacers or not." Translation: "we're completely incapable of understanding how our foolish decisions will have knock on effects to the longevity of our Wheels. Since we don't have a proper testing program, we let our Customers find our mistakes like a terrible version of Easter Hunt. Once problems are discovered, we strive to 1) deny that they exist, 2) when the evidence is eventually overwhelming, provide the absolute minimum level support to distributors (none to Customers) & expect them to cover all associated costs of our screw-ups, including the shipping costs for sending the defective parts. Edited August 15, 2017 by Jason McNeil 2 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 @Jason McNeil Wow :-) you seam to be, how can i say it accurate.... a little bit pi***d of, or? I like there answer, as it is just saying: hey, we can not change this metal pieces...it we make them harder, then the soft axle will be bend if something hits the pedal arm.... Hotway on it's best :-) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: @Jason McNeil Wow :-) you seam to be, how can i say it accurate.... a little bit pi***d of, or? I like there answer, as it is just saying: hey, we can not change this metal pieces...it we make them harder, then the soft axle will be bend if something hits the pedal arm.... Hotway on it's best :-) Yes, that's how I understand it. In the past some people have suggested replacing the wedges with a harder metal but I suspected that it's important that they be made from a softer metal that better conforms to the axle under pressure. So it looks like the solution from Gotway is to replace the wedges every X number of miles/km's. A very customer friendly solution And when I asked Ian (Speedyfeet, where I bought my Monster) if he sold new wedges, he didn't even know what I was talking about. When I showed him pictures he seemed to understand but told me that he'll have to look into whether he can get replacements. Great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Please tell me I can get away with never having to check the tighteness on my axle nuts on the v5f+. This looks terrifying and ripe for me screwing up ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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