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Saturday Morning Griffith Park Ride - 29Jul2017


Marty Backe

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13 minutes ago, Ando Melkonyan said:

I have the same issue. What's the deal with this jerking ???? 

Are you having this kind of jerking (or rocking)? 

Fast forward to 12:50

 

This is purely my idea: My monster's not jerking because of some kind of motor defect, but the plate(s) holding the pedal shaft had worn out. I tried tighten the nuts as hard as i can but that didn't fix it so... I'm waiting on @Jason McNeil to figure out the cause. Maybe when he's visiting CA next time.  

Untitled.png

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4 minutes ago, Sven said:

Are you having this kind of jerking (or rocking)? 

Fast forward to 12:50

 

This is purely my idea: My monster's not jerking because of some kind of motor defect, but the plate(s) holding the pedal shaft had worn out. I tried tighten the nuts as hard as i can but that didn't fix it so... I'm waiting on @Jason McNeil to figure out the cause. Maybe when he's visiting CA next time.  

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Tightening the nut applies pressure against the two wedges inside the bracket. Those wedges than apply pressure against the flats of the axle.

If those wedges get worn than you have to apply some shims. It's an easy fix. And since your Monster is already apart you've done all the hard work.

See this video that demonstrates the whole process: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1312011278917158/permalink/1344782942306658/

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3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Tightening the nut applies pressure against the two wedges inside the bracket. Those wedges than apply pressure against the flats of the axle.

If those wedges get worn than you have to apply some shims. It's an easy fix. And since your Monster is already apart you've done all the hard work.

See this video that demonstrates the whole process: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1312011278917158/permalink/1344782942306658/

@Marty Backe Perfect. Yup this should be it. Unfortunately, i've put it back together the same night!! I wish i had a workshop in my garage... 

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I spent last 2 hours tear down my monster (again), inserting the thin blade underneath the shim as instructed. But this jerking didn't go away. I really hoped this would work. 

I guess... i'm going to wait for @Jason McNeil to visit California.... lol ;) 

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3 hours ago, Sven said:

This is purely my idea: My monster's not jerking because of some kind of motor defect, but the plate(s) holding the pedal shaft had worn out. I tried tighten the nuts as hard as i can but that didn't fix it so... I'm waiting on @Jason McNeil to figure out the cause. Maybe when he's visiting CA next time.  

The "wedges" Marty is talking about get worn out...Unfortunatly often it does not help to apply a small Piece as it is not the nut pressure that is to low.

These wedges grip against the flat axle Piece and if the form of the wedge is not any more "near enough" or lets say the same form as the flat axle, the only Thing that helps is NEW wedges.

I had this defect on my Msuper...it first starts with the Shell gnarcing and then later on you get this rocking....

The design how to hold the pedalarms against the axle is not the best and known to get bad over time.

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9 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

The "wedges" Marty is talking about get worn out...Unfortunatly often it does not help to apply a small Piece as it is not the nut pressure that is to low.

These wedges grip against the flat axle Piece and if the form of the wedge is not any more "near enough" or lets say the same form as the flat axle, the only Thing that helps is NEW wedges.

I had this defect on my Msuper...it first starts with the Shell gnarcing and then later on you get this rocking....

The design how to hold the pedalarms against the axle is not the best and known to get bad over time.

So, getting a whole new set of motor will fix this! (Or just whole new monster maybe...)

I'm starting to think that my monster is not worth over $2k from the fact that i have to go thru this already lol

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4 minutes ago, Sven said:

So, getting a whole new set of motor will fix this! (Or just whole new monster maybe...)

I'm starting to think that my monster is not worth over $2k from the fact that i have to go thru this already lol

:-)

It are just these small pieces inside the pedal arms you need new (as far as i understand the Problem!)

And Yes...it is frustrating! Really bad design on the axle/pedalarm connection

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3 hours ago, Sven said:

So, getting a whole new set of motor will fix this! (Or just whole new monster maybe...)

I'm starting to think that my monster is not worth over $2k from the fact that i have to go thru this already lol

Time to get a KS18. 

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7 hours ago, Sven said:

So, getting a whole new set of motor will fix this! (Or just whole new monster maybe...)

I'm starting to think that my monster is not worth over $2k from the fact that i have to go thru this already lol

No new motor. @KingSong69 is suggesting that new wedges are needed.

Are you positive that you were able to tighten the nut sufficiently? I had to clamp the pedal bracket to my workbench and use both arms to crank down on the wrench to apply enough force that the nut would no longer move.

I can understand your frustration for sure. I wonder why it happened on yours but not mine (or other Monster owners). I have a feeling that some nuts are tightened at the factory as much as they should be, so they loosen faster out in the field.

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6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

No new motor. @KingSong69 is suggesting that new wedges are needed.

Are you positive that you were able to tighten the nut sufficiently? I had to clamp the pedal bracket to my workbench and use both arms to crank down on the wrench to apply enough force that the nut would no longer move.

I can understand your frustration for sure. I wonder why it happened on yours but not mine (or other Monster owners). I have a feeling that some nuts are tightened at the factory as much as they should be, so they loosen faster out in the field.

Maybe you are right, maybe it's not at its tightest point. Am I going to open it up again? unlikely. I'm not very skilled troubleshooter when it comes to DIY and the outer plastic screw holes are getting worse every time I touch it so...

it might be simply the way i ride (or where i ride)

But frankly, I shouldn't be doing this at all... not within the first couple of months.   

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5 hours ago, Sven said:

it might be simply the way i ride (or where i ride)

But frankly, I shouldn't be doing this at all... not within the first couple of months.   

...see what all that "sitting down" riding did to your monster :laughbounce2:

my case is not so surprising because i know i abuse the shit out of my wheel :w00t2:

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6 hours ago, Sven said:

But frankly, I shouldn't be doing this at all... not within the first couple of months.   

Is it still under warranty?  If not maybe you could send it to Ewheels to be checked out, might cost a couple hundred dollars.  You're right, it shouldn't be doing that.

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1 hour ago, Ando Melkonyan said:

...see what all that "sitting down" riding did to your monster :laughbounce2:

my case is not so surprising because i know i abuse the shit out of my wheel :w00t2:

LOL... yeah if i was riding backward while seated, I would've felt better.

 

 (If i get this fixed) I'm going to stay away from mountain trail ridings for while and see if "where" plays a role to this loose shim/axle issue. 

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1 hour ago, steve454 said:

Is it still under warranty?  If not maybe you could send it to Ewheels to be checked out, might cost a couple hundred dollars.  You're right, it shouldn't be doing that.

Good question. it should still be covered by ewheels' warranty. ;) will see 

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On 7/26/2017 at 8:25 AM, Marty Backe said:

No new motor. @KingSong69 is suggesting that new wedges are needed.

Are you positive that you were able to tighten the nut sufficiently? I had to clamp the pedal bracket to my workbench and use both arms to crank down on the wrench to apply enough force that the nut would no longer move.

I can understand your frustration for sure. I wonder why it happened on yours but not mine (or other Monster owners). I have a feeling that some nuts are tightened at the factory as much as they should be, so they loosen faster out in the field.

Be aware, Monster's nuts are enormous 1" (25mm) and I've had hard time tightening them with with my wrench. My go-to sockets for EUC motors don't fit. Been searching online for the right sized oxygen sensor sockets but no luck. Wrench doesn't tight the nut all the way because the nut on mainboard side submerges. 

 

Any brilliant ideas?

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1 hour ago, Sven said:

Be aware, Monster's nuts are enormous 1" (25mm) and I've had hard time tightening them with with my wrench. My go-to sockets for EUC motors don't fit. Been searching online for the right sized oxygen sensor sockets but no luck. Wrench doesn't tight the nut all the way because the nut on mainboard side submerges. 

 

Any brilliant ideas?

The solution is simple if not time consuming. You have to strip the wheel down to only the motor and pedal brackets. That obviously means removing the control board and both sides of the shell. Than the nut should be accessible.

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Are those made of aluminum?  :confused1:   I'm no mechanical engineerologist, but wouldn't disimilar metals have different strength properties (malleability, deformation, compressive and tensile strengths) so high torque stresses would tend to deform the shape that is supposed to resist rotation unless maybe the bolts are secured super tightly?  Maybe replacement pieces made of metal more similar to what the axle is made of might be a good solution.

Looking at things fundamentally, with a redesigned larger axle I think that would help reduce these secondary failure points.  There would be a larger flat surface area to clamp around, and maybe they could design a better way to lock the pedal supports to the axle itself.  You can see by the photo that the torque stresses from the pedals have deformed the inserts allowing more play resulting in the motor jitter.

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31 minutes ago, Ando Melkonyan said:

I just got to the bottom of this shitty problem. One side of my pedal bracket was swinging back n forth by like 2-3 inches. Not good!

Trying to think of something that'll fix this for good. 

 

32 minutes ago, Ando Melkonyan said:

I just got to the bottom of this shitty problem. One side of my pedal bracket was swinging back n forth by like 2-3 inches. Not good!

Trying to think of something that'll fix this for good. 

IMG_0044.JPG

 

Direct evidence of the abuse that you put your wheel thru :D

 

33 minutes ago, Ando Melkonyan said:

I just got to the bottom of this shitty problem. One side of my pedal bracket was swinging back n forth by like 2-3 inches. Not good!

Trying to think of something that'll fix this for good. 

IMG_0044.JPG

The fastest solution would be to file the 'hole' flat again and then use metal shims against the outer edge to compensate for the metal that you removed. Also order some replacements if possible for a longer term solution.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The solution is simple if not time consuming. You have to strip the wheel down to only the motor and pedal brackets. That obviously means removing the control board and both sides of the shell. Than the nut should be accessible.

It's not the accessibility I was talking about. I can get to the motor with my eyes closed now LOL

The issue is to tighten the shaft nuts to the pedal and when you look at the mainboard side nut (when you get a chance to open yours) it's sitting inside of pedal bracket that you can hardly wrench it nor use any regular 1" sockets because of the motor cables. Last time i did this, took me 1 hour unscrew the nut and severely damaged the nut where you can't use wrench anymore. 

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