Rehab1 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: We know nothing for certain. Europe may be safe, or not. Right now we just hope Inmotion will continue as is in the rest of the world. Maybe Jason's promised (in the other thread) explanatory post will clear things up. Or he does not know himself (it's his business future, after all, might be subject to negotiations) and things are fluid (you could say they are in motion). For now we have to be content with shitting on Solowheel's corporate behavior This whole situation must be complicated as @Jason McNeil usually keeps to his time frames on responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Does anyone know whether it is a true corporate merger or just a case of "I'm going to sue the pants off you unless you give me exclusive sales rights to your products in the US and rebrand them under my logo?" I know with a lot of Chinese products if you order enough quantities they are more than happy to slap whatever brand name you want on them. Maybe Solowheel saw InMotion as one of the top competitors and the easiest to go after unlike Ninebot who bought Segway and their patents. Still waiting on @Jason McNeil to spill the beans in his promised detailed post on the matter. I suspect Inmotion was their inital target as Ninebot/Segway would have put up a serious fight and Inmotion was the other appropriate company that appears to have high enough QA/QC build quality. King Song would have been a good target with their improving quality and safety focus but their wheels are so out of SoloWheel's league there would be no way they could have slotted them in among their existing line of low spec products. Someone has already asked on the SoloWheel Seattle Facebook page why the significantly better specified V8 is cheaper than the disappointing "Extreme". If Solowheel is really looking to block all other wholesale imports into the US then Inmotion may have felt this was their only way to keep a revenue flow from the US market going forward. A mistake I feel as most enthusiasts will just order from abroad and bypass SoloWheel's extortionate price increase. That is my take on it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 19 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: This whole situation must be complicated as @Jason McNeil usually keeps to his time frames on responses. Maybe he just can't bring himself to discuss it just yet. Seems like a pretty big betrayal by Inmotion considering the effort he put into their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Does anyone know whether it is a true corporate merger or just a case of "I'm going to sue the pants off you unless you give me exclusive sales rights to your products in the US and rebrand them under my logo?" I know with a lot of Chinese products if you order enough quantities they are more than happy to slap whatever brand name you want on them. Maybe Solowheel saw InMotion as one of the top competitors and the easiest to go after unlike Ninebot who bought Segway and their patents. When I had the opportunity to get to know Jason a bit more during his recent California trips and discussed the market and its politics, I can say that Solowheel's (Chen) objective is to kill all imports of non-Solowheel wheels. Inmotion is the first volley of the attack. Sadly I think the V8 (whatever it's called) is now essentially dead. The only people that will purchase it will be those who are new to EUC's and aren't aware of the wider marketplace. I was forever tempted to buy a V8, but at the new price I would be crazy (stupid) to do so. Look what I could buy from KingSong or Gotway for nearly the same price. Interesting times are ahead. Better stock up on your favorite wheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Does anyone know whether it is a true corporate merger or just a case of "I'm going to sue the pants off you unless you give me exclusive sales rights to your products in the US and rebrand them under my logo?" While the technically correct answer is "we don't know", there has been zero indication of anything else but a rebranding/patent troll + price hike for the extra money grab. If you look at the picture at the start of the other thread, there is even the small Inmotion logo on top of the pedals (the little rubber nub on or whatever it is) and only the side stickers have been replaced with the Solowheel logo (and the pedal grip tape got one too, probably to gild [as in hide] that rubber logo). Second picture here: Not sure about the red back light which also is a IM logo I think, didn't find a picture of it on the "Glide 3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said: Someone has already asked on the SoloWheel Seattle Facebook page why the significantly better specified V8 is cheaper than the disappointing "Extreme". HA that's the funniest (= most ridiculously stupid) thing about it. Not only did they make the Inmotions uncompetitive, they also ruined their own line because they can't even remotely beat the price-hiked V8. "This joint venture allowed us to lower our prices for the original Solowheels" LOL means "we price hiked the rebranded thing to the extreme, and still our original prices are a joke compared to it 1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said: King Song would have been a good target with their improving quality and safety focus but their wheels are so out of SoloWheel's league there would be no way they could have slotted them in among their existing line of low spec products. Also, Kingsong/Gotway = China = "China don't care". How hard is it for us already to get in contact with these companies, won't be easier for a ligitous lawyer. Inmotion = South Korea = more susceptible to US IP/patent shenanigans. But good point with the Kingsong performance. What price would a Solowheel rebranded 18S be? 5000$? 1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said: Maybe he just can't bring himself to discuss it just yet. Seems like a pretty big betrayal by Inmotion considering the effort he put into their products. I would feel bad in his place too. So much effort put into EUC popularity, and potentially everything ruined by patent trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: I would feel bad in his place too. So much effort put into EUC popularity, and potentially everything ruined by patent trolling. Jason is the man who greatly popularized EUC's in the USA. I almost bought a V8 from him and only did not because of the lack of range. I did buy a V5F+ from him, and now he doesn't sell Inmotion. It's business, I know, but that feels wrong due to the effort he put into popularizing EUCs. Basically he got dumped by his girlfriend after putting in the time. It also would have been very nice for everyone if Seattle had forced the V8 to have double the batteries and sell them at the present price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Keith said: I know it is suggested repeatedly that this only impacts America, but is this truly the case? Has it, at any time, been stated for certain that Inmotion will continue to sell their wheels under their name (and pricing) in the rest of the world? Just remembered, the official "Europe is safe" argument would be: Ian (Speedyfeet) just added the V8 to his line up. Unlikely he would have done so if a price hike/rebrand for Europe would be imminent (and he likely would have known that, and laughed at a 1600 V8 next to a 84V ACM with 3 times the battery and nearly double the power for the same price in his shop). But this is just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 14 hours ago, houseofjob said: Best. Post. Ever. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetpapi Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Damn! I should have bought V8 instead of V5F+. I'm very gifted at missing opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 30 minutes ago, Planetpapi said: Damn! I should have bought V8 instead of V5F+. I'm very gifted at missing opportunities. What's funny is that the value of used V8's just jumped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, Planetpapi said: Damn! I should have bought V8 instead of V5F+. I'm very gifted at missing opportunities. Maybe not...from what I understand only the V5F and V8 will be offered by Solowheel, so the V5F+ is actually a wheel that will no longer be available at ALL, making it even more rare, and potentially even more valuable!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: What's funny is that the value of used V8's just jumped I wondered if this would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 It's so conflicting. Normally I would be thrilled to hear about a store that sells EUCs opening up that helps spread the popularity of these wheels. In addition I've always admired the inventor entrepreneurial spirit that Shane Chen brings forth with his inventions. Yet currently I have never hoped to see a company fail as much as I do for Inventist. It's disappointing to see well engineered and popular InMotion products end up losing market share possibly due one company's patent rights crusade or merger or whatever has occurred. Inventist must have had some hand in preventing Jason McNeil from selling these popular wheels either through an exclusivity clause or purely from a pricing hike standpoint? On the positive side, hopefully Inventist will add in western engineering concepts to help ensure these wheels will be safer on the road. Maybe they have specified thicker wiring cables, beefier MOSFETs and higher quality control assurances like what Apple Corporation does with its products. Is it worth paying a premium for improved safety and QA? Yes for sure. I think though we need to find out how much better a Solowheel Glide 3 is in comparison to an InMotion V8 and see how they are different on the inside. We're assuming there are no changes in the physical wheel itself so we are balking at the price hike when maybe there could be more to it underneath in terms of hardware and firmware? In addition we've been a bit spoiled with drop shipper/direct-from-China pricing that seeing brick and mortar store pricing is quite a shock to the system. Now imagine if Apple Corporation bought Gotway and wanted to re-issue a new ACM16. You can probably bet on a few things. It will be much more expensive from the get go as opposed to buying from a drop shipper or directly from China. It likely will have revamped internals to reinforce it's durability and reliability. There would be no more cheap screws, wire melting issues, MOSFET explosions, nor a need to DIY fix it as it would be permanently sealed . Would people pay for an Apple ACM16 that costs $3000 that is reliable as heck? I know at least one person who likely would. Lookin' at you @Marty Backe. Maybe we should view the current events as a good thing. A merging of western design oversight and quality assurance with Chinese production efficiencies could be the droid we're looking for. If it helps, maybe think of the pricing as a special edition meant for Western audiences. I recall posing the question of whether people would pay $500 more for a "Western" standard wheel with high quality internals and design as opposed to "China" standard "good enough" models. Maybe the Glide 3 is that wheel? I just pray over time they are eventually able to bring the prices down to reduce the cost of entry for the masses. Otherwise I fear some of these wheels may go the way of the $5000 Segway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 35 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Maybe we should view the current events as a good thing. A merging of western design oversight and quality assurance with Chinese production efficiencies could be the droid we're looking for. If it helps, maybe think of the pricing as a special edition meant for Western audiences. I recall posing the question of whether people would pay $500 more for a "Western" standard wheel with high quality internals and design as opposed to "China" standard "good enough" models. Maybe the Glide 3 is that wheel? I just pray over time they are eventually able to bring the prices down to reduce the cost of entry for the masses. Otherwise I fear some of these wheels may go the way of the $5000 Segway... All good points, what struck me is the idea you brought up, what if Solowheel firmware is being installed on these Inmotion wheels? Solowheels are supposedly safer than most wheels, the firmware might be where the cost difference comes in, and like you said, meant for Western riders. I know Solowheels are supposed to be restricted to slow speeds, but there have been no reports of cutouts or wiring problems, maybe because so few people own them, so who knows. So you would have a newer wheel, with much larger batteries and range than Solowheel, and the lights and other features of the Inmotion wheels, with better firmware. That could explain the higher price. Solowheel has some new models now that someone else designed and manufactured, and Inmotion has the better firmware. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 20 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Imagine if Apple iPhones costing $800 one day sold for $1300 the next day for what appears to be the same product? People might still buy them, but for those knowing they sold for much less it's difficult to accept. I am still mystified why Solowheel bases its business model on gross overpricing. Can't they understand their practices have marginalized Solowheel into near-irrelevance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Sadly I think the V8 (whatever it's called) is now essentially dead. Yep, it will wither and die under Solowheel's incompetent business management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Inmotion = South Korea = more susceptible to US IP/patent shenanigans. InMotion Technologies is a Chinese company, not Korean. There are no Korean EUC companies, just e-kickboard scooters & e-footbikes (DualtronMan/TamiWheeler) makers. InMotion IMO was more susceptible because they have more $$$ than any other EUC brand being sold in the US not named Ninebot/Segway. Legal 101: you sue/target rich people [companies], not poorer people [companies]. Poorer people [companies] don't have as much money to give, thus not justifying the legal expenses to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Solowheel's (Chen) objective is to kill all imports of non-Solowheel wheels. How about make better wheels at good prices?? Oh no, he'd never dream of doing THAT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: This joint venture allowed us to lower our prices for the original Solowheels" I noticed that, on the Seattle Solowheel website, the original Solowheel is $699. I'm tempted to buy one now, before, they were way overpriced. So the original is now a good starter wheel, and then they have two premium models, the Extreme and the Glide. Marketing is getting better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Is it worth paying a premium for improved safety and QA? Yes for sure. I think though we need to find out how much better a Solowheel Glide 3 is in comparison to an InMotion V8 and see how they are different on the inside. We're assuming there are no changes in the physical wheel itself so we are balking at the price hike when maybe there could be more to it underneath in terms of hardware and firmware That is going to be what everyone will want to know. Why haven't Solowheel said if there are any improvements internally to the Inmotion wheels they have rebranded? If only the name has changed, the price increase is bad. It will be interesting to see a comparison of the original V8 to the Glide. Who wants to bet that the Glide has Solowheel firmware, and that's why it is so smooth that they renamed it the Glide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 22 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: There are some firmware differences like more safety warnings, new app coming. Also new, longer and more comprehensive warranty. The new partnership will bring updates to the Glide among other things next. That's what I wanted to see! Longer warranty, new app, and updates. They are turning into Ninebot. The US is lawsuit happy. I am going to order the original Solowheel at $699, just to compare it to the Ninebot. And if I don't like it, I can sell it for the original price of 1500 dollars to someone who doesn't know what the market is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: A merging of western design oversight and quality assurance with Chinese production efficiencies That would be great, except that Solowheel produces such outclassed wheels, most people don't want them even if the quality is high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 57 minutes ago, steve454 said: the original Solowheel is $699. Wow, thanks for the price reduction, Solowheel! Now I can buy this instead of a Gotway MCM3 for $500! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Didn't know Inmotion is Chinese too. Not sure where the Korea idea comes from, read it somewwere here I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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