Catlord17

Does the GW MSuper V3s+ regenerate when braking?

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I keep hearing people talk about how some of these wheels will regenerate the battery when the unit is braking or going downhill.  Does the GotWay MSuper V3s+ do this?

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Posted (edited)

I think all wheels do, you can see the battery on the app when going downhill

Edited by Jaumebyn
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Posted (edited)

Lord of the Cats, you can run a riding app like Gyrometrics, Wheelog, etc during your ride which will record some telemetry from the wheel.  Here's yesterday's ride with my Ninebot.  You can see my battery charge up to 50% as I descend a long hill.

714175_img2931.png

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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Wow Hunka, that is quite a return.  I didn't know that much charge would be picked up.  

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Well heck, just more and more things I have to wait for this wheel to arrive to figure out.  But it's good to know that there's at least a good chance it has regenerative braking.  Thanks guys!

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There is an unusually gigantic drop in charge (at 25 on horiz. Axis) before your recharge back up to 50 percent.

What terrain feature does the long battery drop correspond to? 😕

Can you show an elevation profile under the battery discharge curve? Paste over a Google Earth elevation profile for the GPS path?

If you average out the 'noisy' graph data with its ups and downs the discharge is generally a smooth curve passing over a steep discharge (2x size)and apparent regenerative charge section (1x size) from 20 to 35 on the  horizontal axis.

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Posted (edited)

It's actually not a huge amount of regeneration as I still get pretty near 25% battery at the end of 16.5 km,  but there are some uphills.  I'm averaging 20 kph which is just under tiltback.

I believe that large drop is when I hit "the climb."  There is a moderate hill in the pathway that goes from street level to the top of a ravine area which takes me about 5 minutes to get up.  The Ninebot heats up to about 53C at the peak.  The drop could be just the battery straining under climbing load?  The bot slows down to about 12 kph going up the hill.  I can give it some slight, quick overlean pushes to make it beep which likely is a current draw warning?

Google Earth?  Ah me don't know how to use it.  :wacko:  I use to run MapMyRide, but I switched back to a non-jailbroken mode so I lost that app.  It used to give me an elevation graph.  I take a loop back so I go down the same hill climb later on, but I think I get back only about 1/3 (if that) of what I used to climb it.

Here's the matching power graph:

674490_img2933.png

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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Wheels are pretty much forced to have regenerative braking. Due to how electric motors work.

Put electromagnetic field on a magnet -> magnet wants to move. That's how a motor moves.

Move magnet (when the motor rotates) -> create electromagentic field. That field induces a current that can either charge your batteries back (if your induced current is higher than what you need to use for riding down a hill, you're net positive), or you have to get rid of it somehow else (heats something up, which is why you don't have 100% efficiency in regenerative braking), but it's necessarily there.

As far as I'm informed (which isn't much;)), back EMF (the motor basically counteracting itself the faster it goes) could also be argued to be (regenerative, I assume) braking.

--

So your msuper V3 1600Wh has it, as has any other wheel here.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wheels are pretty much forced to have regenerative braking. Due to how electric motors work.

Defining 'noise' on the battery charge graph.

On the basis of a local (small graph time span) battery peak charge value attained after a positive 'slope' segment

+ (slope) goes up from R to L (battery charging)

- (slope) goes down from R to L (battery discharging)

There are twenty or so battery regenerative + slope segments on the graph where the larger  one at 30-35 (horiz. Axis) segment corresponds to riding down a hill.

The other 19 correspond to what?

 

 

Edited by Bob Eisenman
Correction
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@Hunka Hunka Burning Love I would be interested to see the graph of you taking that hill and then resting at the top to see how much the battery recovered voltage off load without the added input from regen braking. Off you go. ;)

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3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

It's actually not a huge amount of regeneration as I still get pretty near 25% battery at the end of 16.5 km,  but there are some uphills.  I'm averaging 20 kph which is just under tiltback.

I believe that large drop is when I hit "the climb."  There is a moderate hill in the pathway that goes from street level to the top of a ravine area which takes me about 5 minutes to get up.  The Ninebot heats up to about 53C at the peak.  The drop could be just the battery straining under climbing load?  The bot slows down to about 12 kph going up the hill.  I can give it some slight, quick overlean pushes to make it beep which likely is a current draw warning?

Google Earth?  Ah me don't know how to use it.  :wacko:  I use to run MapMyRide, but I switched back to a non-jailbroken mode so I lost that app.  It used to give me an elevation graph.  I take a loop back so I go down the same hill climb later on, but I think I get back only about 1/3 (if that) of what I used to climb it.

Here's the matching power graph:

674490_img2933.png

That's what I figured too -- the steep drop must have been a climb ... but then you go from about 28 to 50 on what must be your regenerative downhill phase.  That's 22%, or almost a quarter of your possible charge.  That is far from trivial, unless I'm totally misunderstanding something ... which is usually the most likely option when it comes to this sort of thing of course.  But still, the graph seemed clear enough and we agreed on the genesis of the drop so I don't think I'm completely out in the wilds of nonsense here ...

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Could wheels benefit from a single simple disk brake to "help" when going down a steep hill?

If I'm reading this correctly, that means all the excess energy has to be dispelled as heat through the motherboard or electronics.

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20 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Theoretically yes, if it can be controlled fast and accurate enough by the mb to keep up balancing - so practically no.

And sometimes some recharging of the battery... Also the batteries dispell some energy as heat.

In regards to keeping the wheel balanced while braking, could the motor provide the balance like it usually does but using less wattage?

Lol. Maybe just stick a much bigger motor instead, and add like four fans? I don't think any wheel yet comes with fans although I did read of users adding fans.

Can you imagine the testing on such wheels? Go down a 20,000 foot road and see what breaks.

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I don't think any wheel yet comes with fans although I did read of users adding fans.

There are fans in the KS14d, KS16alltypes, KS18AYand S and in the GW Monster :-)

 

Edited by KingSong69
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3 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

@Hunka Hunka Burning Love I would be interested to see the graph of you taking that hill and then resting at the top to see how much the battery recovered voltage off load without the added input from regen braking. Off you go. ;)

Sure I'll try to remember to do a hill climb + rest recording on my next trip.

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18 hours ago, Catlord17 said:

I keep hearing people talk about how some of these wheels will regenerate the battery when the unit is braking or going downhill.  Does the GotWay MSuper V3s+ do this?

I get probably 30% longer range when riding mine in the mountains vs flat ground. I pulled that figure out of my butt, but it's fair to say that the extended range from regeneration is substantial.

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8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I get probably 30% longer range when riding mine in the mountains vs flat ground. I pulled that figure out of my butt, but it's fair to say that the extended range from regeneration is substantial.

My concern is my Monster will overheat and pop going up hills.

Oh wait...

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Posted (edited)

So when's the Marty knee mod lean assist thingy being revealed?  Plus the TFU NZ/SoCal ride video?  :popcorn:

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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32 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

So when's the Marty knee mod lean assist thingy being revealed?  Plus the TFU NZ/SoCal ride video?  :popcorn:

Video editing is painfully time consuming sometimes :(

I'm on the fence right now whether I'll try that mod. For shorter climbs I'm digging my knees into the pads and driving forward.

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3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I've been improving my hill climbing speeds on the Monster. It still takes more effort and strategy to climb hills with the Monster, but if done probably it can actually scream up hills. The key is to not go slow but to accelerate up the hill. 

Or sit on it

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47 minutes ago, Sven said:

Or sit on it

Yeah, your hill climbing skills while seated on the Monster is disturbingly good :cheers:

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