KingSong KS-16S // Rockwheel GT16 // (Gotway ACM)

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, who_the said:

Does anybody know of any other incremental upgrades?

The tire on the GT16 got changed from a slickier CST to a rougher Chaoyang some time before April.

[Scatcat]

23 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The tire on the GT16 got changed from a slickier CST to a rougher Chaoyang some time before April.

Yeah, I have the CST, and are a bit envious about the Chaoyang 

[Scatcat]

1 hour ago, who_the said:

I don't remember, saw it here more than once but can't find the specific reference. I recall it being north of 1000wh. 

Are you talking about the 92V variant that they're testing, or just higher capacity cells?

[Scatcat]

Well, this is me going home today, or part of it anyways  

 

[mrelwood]

16 hours ago, Slaughthammer said:

Keep in mind, that 54V (or 3,4V/cell) is the 0% Voltage of the Lhotz. If KS sets 55V at 30%, than 0% would be around 50V, or 3,125V/cell... considering safety...

Very good point! I'll have to check the voltages as the battery goes down.

Scatcat said:

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Also be aware that the KS16 is probably more resilient to really heavy rain.

That's what I thought. I don't like riding in rain either, but if it rains all day, I will choose the time of the lightest rain and go for a ride anyway. Can't be a full day without riding, now can we? ;o)

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the battery panels, which are ridged just around where you wrist resides, that can become rather painful...

A local store that sells car parts amongst everything else sells this 1cm thick foam for car acoustic treatment. It has a soft top coating and a crazily sticky glue on the other side. A slab of something like that to cover the whole side would be like instant heaven for your legs! I use it to pad the shin extenders I made from wood for my Lhotz.

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The stability at speed is good, even very good for a 16" x 2.125" wheel.

The suspension rubber bits are something I would've loved to get to try riding on. I have done a lot of tire pressure tests since a lot of the paved roads here are full of small cracks that for me are pretty hard to ride on. Now at 2.4 bars. I am even considering making a thin silicone layer as a damper on top of my pedals under the grip tape.

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Tilt back is rather smooth, but maybe it is a bit too easy to ride the tilt-back...

I sure hope the Kingsong tiltback isn't too abrupt either.

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the temp meter has never gone above 45°C

Now I got worried. I often get to 70°C on the Lhotz. Is the probe located that differently, or should I do something about it immediately?

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But with your shoe-size, which is two numbers larger than mine, you may have issues with the pedals.

I recently made extenders fo my Lhotz pedals. Last night I took a ride on a Lhotz without the extenders, and dear god, I have no idea how I was able to ride it at all without them! I had to use all the wrong muscles all the time. And I rode 2000km before taking an hour to fix it. I feel so stupid. I'm sure I'll extend the KS16 pedals as well.

I only ride with combat boots or the like for ankle support. I wear long ankle-shin warmers all the time, and combined they work very well for me.

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don't try going above 25-26mph.

Oh man. We are a crazy bunch aren't we? 25mph is already a stupendous speed on a unicycle, unless having a forcefield as a protection.

Thank you Scatcat for the great and detailed review! Though I still believe ordering the KS was the right choice for me.

[Scatcat]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

Now I got worried. I often get to 70°C on the Lhotz. Is the probe located that differently, or should I do something about it immediately?

 

Nah! Don't worry overmuch. The reason for the low temp is the air-ducts that lets air flow over the heat-sink. This takes the temp down immensely at speed, but does almost nothing uphill. So if I would go climbing a bit more than I do, the temp would go up a lot. 70°C won't hurt your gear.

[Scatcat]

Today I got down to about 36%, and the voltage was down to 67V. If 100% is 4.2V per cell, ≥71% is 3.8V per cell, and ≥36% is 3.35V per cell..., that is almost linear, about 0.013V per percent and cell, 0.26V for the whole package.

That would mean 0% is at ~2.9V or 58V for the whole pack. More and more I suspect the reported percentage is a bit too high, because 2.9/58V sounds too low.

[mrelwood]

I received my new KingSong KS-16S 840Wh yesterday. Bumpered her up and rode for about 15km.

Oh dear lord.

[GoinPostal]

On 6/26/2017 at 9:41 AM, mrelwood said:

Your opinion mattered a lot, and was very valuable to me. I placed an order for the Kingsong KS-16S 840Wh. I'll share my feelings in a few weeks.

Thank you Marty!

PS. Hope your wrist is getting better. Mine still hurts a bit in some situations, 2 months after a relatively easy fall. It didn't even hurt right away.

UGH! Jealousy just poured out of me!  You have GOT to update us on the new wheel!  I am so close to pulling the trigger on the KS-16-S I can taste it!

[US69]

41 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I received my new KingSong KS-16S 840Wh yesterday. Bumpered her up and rode for about 15km.

Oh dear lord.

I received my Ks18S yesterday, also :-)

yip...oh dear Lord...brings it to the point!

 The "S" Versions are really a freaking drive experience!

[mrelwood]

28 minutes ago, GoinPostal said:

UGH! Jealousy just poured out of me!  You have GOT to update us on the new wheel!  I am so close to pulling the trigger on the KS-16-S I can taste it!

My review isn't going to be a fair one since I haven't tried any of the other modern wheels. I think it was a very precise comparison by someone, that Lhotz is 10% of the KS-16S's 100%. One third more money gets you ten times the wheel.

Lhotz is a mid 80's Corolla, KS-16S is a new Tesla.

KS-16S tire at 4.0 bars is hugely more comfortable on bumps and cracks than Lhotz at 2.7. KS's Kenda does have a center ridge that is a bit higher, so on curves there is this slight 'oops' section where the KS seems to fall slightly on it's side. Once it wears down a bit I'm sure the cornering will get smoother. And coming from an old 2.5 inch tire there was bound to be a difference.

When riding the KS I feel like I was standing on train tracks. It is so incredibly stable and smooth. I didn't think it was anywhere near possible to feel the road this differently.

Going uphill it feels like I was in an elevator. It just goes up. On Lhotz I had to be careful and do these little hops even for small bumps. The same bumps disappear on the KS, and I go up in an elevator while standing on railroad tracks. The difference is so stumpious that I'm afraid if I will start to make foolish decisions on the KS. Like going up too high curbs, or trusting the KS to handle curbs I should also take part in conquering.

The whining noise is bad though. I know I'm quite sensitive to such sounds, but still, at this level of a masterpiece it is an issue. I will surely see if anything can be done about it.

I will definitely write a proper review once I get more mileage.

[meepmeepmayer]

Did anybody try the 16S and the 84V ACM, or the 18S and the 84V msuper V3, and can compare? Will the Gotways still feel stronger, and how big is the difference?

[GoinPostal]

3 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

My review isn't going to be a fair one since I haven't tried any of the other modern wheels. I think it was a very precise comparison by someone, that Lhotz is 10% of the KS-16S's 100%. One third more money gets you ten times the wheel.

Lhotz is a mid 80's Corolla, KS-16S is a new Tesla.

KS-16S tire at 4.0 bars is hugely more comfortable on bumps and cracks than Lhotz at 2.7. KS's Kenda does have a center ridge that is a bit higher, so on curves there is this slight 'oops' section where the KS seems to fall slightly on it's side. Once it wears down a bit I'm sure the cornering will get smoother. And coming from an old 2.5 inch tire there was bound to be a difference.

When riding the KS I feel like I was standing on train tracks. It is so incredibly stable and smooth. I didn't think it was anywhere near possible to feel the road this differently.

Going uphill it feels like I was in an elevator. It just goes up. On Lhotz I had to be careful and do these little hops even for small bumps. The same bumps disappear on the KS, and I go up in an elevator while standing on railroad tracks. The difference is so stumpious that I'm afraid if I will start to make foolish decisions on the KS. Like going up too high curbs, or trusting the KS to handle curbs I should also take part in conquering.

The whining noise is bad though. I know I'm quite sensitive to such sounds, but still, at this level of a masterpiece it is an issue. I will surely see if anything can be done about it.

I will definitely write a proper review once I get more mileage.

Hmmm..  the whining noise is bad??  Compared to other wheels?  Interesting..  It would have to be REALLY bad to dissuade me though.. 

[US69]

6 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

My review isn't going to be a fair one since I haven't tried any of the other modern wheels. I think it was a very precise comparison by someone, that Lhotz is 10% of the KS-16S's 100%. One third more money gets you ten times the wheel.

Lhotz is a mid 80's Corolla, KS-16S is a new Tesla.

KS-16S tire at 4.0 bars is hugely more comfortable on bumps and cracks than Lhotz at 2.7. KS's Kenda does have a center ridge that is a bit higher, so on curves there is this slight 'oops' section where the KS seems to fall slightly on it's side. Once it wears down a bit I'm sure the cornering will get smoother. And coming from an old 2.5 inch tire there was bound to be a difference.

When riding the KS I feel like I was standing on train tracks. It is so incredibly stable and smooth. I didn't think it was anywhere near possible to feel the road this differently.

Going uphill it feels like I was in an elevator. It just goes up. On Lhotz I had to be careful and do these little hops even for small bumps. The same bumps disappear on the KS, and I go up in an elevator while standing on railroad tracks. The difference is so stumpious that I'm afraid if I will start to make foolish decisions on the KS. Like going up too high curbs, or trusting the KS to handle curbs I should also take part in conquering.

The whining noise is bad though. I know I'm quite sensitive to such sounds, but still, at this level of a masterpiece it is an issue. I will surely see if anything can be done about it.

I will definitely write a proper review once I get more mileage.

From my view you are on point! 

But...its not really fair to compare a Ks16s with a Lhotz....as these are really different wheel generations!

[US69]

5 minutes ago, GoinPostal said:

Hmmm..  the whining noise is bad??  Compared to other wheels?  Interesting..  It would have to be REALLY bad to dissuade me though.. 

The Lhotz is very quiet, nearly nothing to hear at all.

i can only speak for the 18S...yes its whining is a bit louder than my older Ks18, but in the end you have that whining sound on all KS and GW wheels...i dont hear it anymore when driving.

[mrelwood]

16 minutes ago, GoinPostal said:

Hmmm..  the whining noise is bad??  Compared to other wheels? 

ONLY compared to the age old IPS Lhotz and Zero. I'm under the impression that from these new powerful wheels the KS is the quietest. And I truly am quite sensitive for sounds. I wear earplugs every time I go to a larger grocery store. The noise wears me down quite fast.

11 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

From my view you are on point! 

But...its not really fair to compare a Ks16s with a Lhotz....as these are really different wheel generations!

Exactly. It is important to mention every time I talk about the KS, I can ONLY compare this Tesla to an 80's Corolla!

Edit: Actually I don't think I should write a review on the 16S at all. It would serve no purpose other than to derail people trying to decide what to buy.

[mrelwood]

A few negatives though:

After the first ride my sand coloured pants were stained orange from the KS logo in the side pads. I ended up rubbing the logo off entirely with electronics cleaner (running out of IPA atm). Surprisingly the rock hard side pads also softened up as a result. They were so hard by default that I had big problems getting on without support because of the sheer pain on my shin.

Pedal tilt is strange. If calibrated to horizontal, the pedals will tilt and stay tilted forward already at medium speeds. If calibrated 4 degrees backwards, the position at speed is good, but it will tilt back too much when going very slow. Bad for offroad.

The manual is in Chinese, but using a live iPhone camera translator I was able to get a glipse. Nothing useful. I'm still at loss on what each of the button does in various situations. When charging, press both to see side lights (battery level), while the front light can be turned on with either button. These should all be covered in a user manual.

The frame creaks quite a bit. Doesn't represent the quality of the wheel properly. Will seal it properly some day.

[US69]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Pedal tilt is strange. If calibrated to horizontal, the pedals will tilt and stay tilted forward already at medium speeds. If calibrated 4 degrees backwards, the position at speed is good, but it will tilt back too much when going very slow. Bad for offroad.

If you have Problems with the pedals tilting...especially tilting in curves or slow Motion...do a proper calibration!

And when doing this calibration, not only hold the pedals horizontal! Also Keep the wheel that it does NOT lean to the left or right while calibrating!

 

Also: Which "drive mode" do you have set? to say that calibrated pedals tilt Forward while driving sounds for me you have the "beginner" or learner drive mode set, instead of the "rock hard" Player mode....

[US69]

@mrelwood

Btw.: Do you have a Photo of the "rubbed of" logo or your sidepads now? What was that electronics cleaner? :-)

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

If you have Problems with the pedals tilting...especially tilting in curves or slow Motion...do a proper calibration!

From experience, I calibrated even before my first ride. I have since calibrated several times to find the best compromise. Wheel held upright as precisely as I can by hand.

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Also: Which "drive mode" do you have set?

I think I would use the hardest mode (adorable at curbs and hills!), but the pedals keep tilting forward even when doing quick brakings. Feels quite dangerous. I'm at the 'cycling' (medium) mode now, as it feels safer for emergency braking.

The tilt forward I mean is very slow. When accelerating, it takes several seconds to reach it's position, and same when braking. It's not like the learning mode that feels like you're standing on a fluffy mattress. The learning mode lets the pedals tilt immediately, and far enough for me to pee under. Haven't tried that mode since. Hate the laundry. ;op

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

@mrelwood

Btw.: Do you have a Photo of the "rubbed of" logo or your sidepads now? What was that electronics cleaner? :-)

I did rub a few spots a bit too hard, so it's not totally even. I might sand it down to equal roughness. I imagined the shine would wear down in time anyways. And still better than a messed up logo that also messes up my pants! The cleaner is a locally rebranded cheap product, but it's made of prop-2-nol (30-100%) and HFC 134a. I'd think pretty much any "-ol" would do.

[US69]

19 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The tilt forward I mean is very slow. When accelerating, it takes several seconds to reach it's position, and same when braking. It's not like the learning mode that feels like you're standing on a fluffy mattress. The learning mode lets the pedals tilt immediately, and far enough for me to pee under. Haven't tried that mode since. Hate the laundry. ;op

That really sounds like the ride mode!

I would advise to try a bit with the player mode, it is rock hard, should not tilt forward in any way....and is in my view also better for accelerating and emergency braking, as its just...the most powerfull mode...the only disadvantage is that it consumes more energy...if there is any disadvantage!

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

That really sounds like the ride mode!

I would advise to try a bit with the player mode, it is rock hard, should not tilt forward in any way

Do you also have the 16S? If so, is it also running the firmware 1.02? Because the tilt forward is very obvious and strong! It is freaky when stopping peacefully, as the pedals tilt back to the calibrated level (tried flat, -3 and -5 degrees).

I do feel the same behavior in the cycle mode too, kind of like it was the root behavior on top of which the riding modes are operating. The softer cycle mode just masks that behavior a bit.

I'll see if I could measure the tilt angles at speed. I think stand alone iPhone screen recording is not possible, it would've told us a lot recording a level app.

I so hope I don't have a faulty unit!

[esaj]

15 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Do you also have the 16S? If so, is it also running the firmware 1.02? Because the tilt forward is very obvious and strong! It is freaky when stopping peacefully, as the pedals tilt back to the calibrated level (tried flat, -3 and -5 degrees).

I do feel the same behavior in the cycle mode too, kind of like it was the root behavior on top of which the riding modes are operating. The softer cycle mode just masks that behavior a bit.

I'll see if I could measure the tilt angles at speed. I think stand alone iPhone screen recording is not possible, it would've told us a lot recording a level app.

I so hope I don't have a faulty unit!

That's weird. Mine came with firmware 1.00, and I haven't noticed the pedals tilting forward, except at a start of a fast acceleration (middle stiffness), but since I had so much time in between wheels, maybe I just haven't noticed it and just got used to it right away?

Definitely not going to be updating if that's a "feature" of 1.02    

[US69]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Do you also have the 16S? If so, is it also running the firmware 1.02? Because the tilt forward is very obvious and strong! It is freaky when stopping peacefully, as the pedals tilt back to the calibrated level (tried flat, -3 and -5 degrees).

I do feel the same behavior in the cycle mode too, kind of like it was the root behavior on top of which the riding modes are operating. The softer cycle mode just masks that behavior a bit.

I'll see if I could measure the tilt angles at speed. I think stand alone iPhone screen recording is not possible, it would've told us a lot recording a level app.

I so hope I don't have a faulty unit!

No, Sorry, i only have a 18S and speak a bit from general experience....

That, like esaj said, sounds weird to me...i can only advise to calibrate again...i even did not know that the 16s has a Fw 1.02???

As far as ME Knows...there is only a 1.02 for 14d...but not for 16s.... @esaj???

 

That even wonders me ..as your "before" wheel was a Lhotz...which is ...soft as hell against a Ks16(s) ...so that you have that tilt forward??? i am at the end with my wisdom....

[esaj]

39 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

i even did not know that the 16s has a Fw 1.02???

As far as ME Knows...there is only a 1.02 for 14d...but not for 16s.... @esaj???

Another KS16S -rider (@Lukasz) said he had 1.02 pre-installed when the wheel came, mine was on 1.00. The last I checked (which is at least several weeks ago, but still later than when he got his 1.02), it wasn't available through the app.