Ouch. Nice paperweight!

[TremF]

12 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Did he mention why there was such a large spark?  Is there some special connection method to avoid it?

No. He had no problems so I'll ask him what he did.

11 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I suppose it was the initial connection between the packs and the board. If you are deliberate in that connection it will spark but not like the 4th of July fireworks I had. The connection posts inside the XL60s will start to degrade if the procedure is performed too many times. I don't believe @TremF ever posted a post spark photo of the connector.

I hadn't connected the batteries to the board. I was still connecting them together when it sparked. I really thought the connector was damaged but Ian says it's fine.

I'll have it back tomorrow & it's needed now after my ACM bust a fet. I have a spare board but won't be able to fit it for a bit.

 

[TremF]

My worst fears have been confirmed... 

When the connectors arced I feared that the batteries may be damaged. Ian has confirmed this & said they possibly could be used but it's not advisable due to the fire risk which I 100% agree with.

The batteries are the most expensive parts of the Monster though so to replace 2 isn't going to be cheap

I literally am lost & limited without an EUC & although I could run the Monster with the 1 battery I'd prefer not to.

I'm waiting for a response from Ian on a few questions I've asked regarding new batteries, purchasing ones from his test Monster (at full price so I can get them now) & he replace them or a trade for on an 84V ACM or Msuper V3. Basically, desperation, anything I can think of so I can get my mobility back again ASAP as it's very depressing being back how I was two years ago before EUC's came into my life. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Ian has great customer service, but his technical knowledge seems a bit limited, I believe (see your [if I remember correctly] bad repair). Though he might be right on this.

Stay calm, be strong, and don't do anything hasty you'll regret

You could also use your ACM batteries in the Monster or vice versa, both use 60 cell packs (just don't mix packs with different cells/capacities, not sure how good of an idea that would be).

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Hang in there, TremF.  Do you still have your ACM?    I wonder whether the BMS can be replaced in those damaged packs?  @Rehab1 although you had that big spark (sorry to open up the old wound again), your batteries survived?  Maybe someone could help repair the battery packs if Gotway can send some replacement BMS boards?

[meepmeepmayer]

Advice from another thread that might very well apply to you. In fact, I first thought it was a reply to this thread.

 

[TremF]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Ian has great customer service, but his technical knowledge seems a bit limited, I believe (see your [if I remember correctly] bad repair). Though he might be right on this.

Stay calm, be strong, and don't do anything hasty you'll regret

You could also use your ACM batteries in the Monster or vice versa, both use 60 cell packs (just don't mix packs with different cells/capacities, not sure how good of an idea that would be).

Previously he didn't open the battery side. This time he has and he's had the batteries on charge over the weekend and the black spots got worse and they aren't charging up right. I've attached an image of one of the batteries. Also the ACM is 67v and the Monster is 84V? I don't think the batteries are compatible?

1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Hang in there, TremF.  Do you still have your ACM?    I wonder whether the BMS can be replaced in those damaged packs?  @Rehab1 although you had that big spark (sorry to open up the old wound again), your batteries survived?  Maybe someone could help repair the battery packs if Gotway can send some replacement BMS boards?

The ACM is still out of action. Neither SpeedyFeet nor Yorkshire Airwheels have the motor in stock and I need to get the ACM open again to get the motor code. At the moment if I do anything like using a screw driver, using a can opener - things that mean rotating my right arm it clicks and hurts still from my accident. Just rotating my wrist it cracks and my arm (possibly elbow) makes an awful grating sound so, seeing as I can't use it anyway I may as well send the ACM off to be looked at and repaired.

58 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Advice from another thread that might very well apply to you. In fact, I first thought it was a reply to this thread.

 

My batteries have the same black spots as in that post. I don't fancy trying to reconnect batteries again after this incident.

 

Ian has said I can purchase two batteries from his demo unit rather than waiting for new ones. That way he can fit the batteries & get it back to me ASAP. He's just waiting on the price of batteries & I know it's going to be painful as they are the most expensive bit :( 

I have 3 birthdays, my wifes car's MOT and Christmas just around the corner. I may have to part with some collectables/gadgets to cover this.  I can't be without an EUC though as it's my mobility. This past week has been very painful and tiring having to walk more and use public transport & depressing not being able to generally get out and about. 

 

[Rehab1]

5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

 

My worst fears have been confirmed... 

When the connectors arced I feared that the batteries may be damaged. Ian has confirmed this & said they possibly could be used but it's not advisable due to the fire risk which I 100% agree with.

 

Sorry buddy! Your arc that occured must have been much worse than mine!

Hang in there! If you lived closer I would gladly loan you a wheel. The way you describe the pain in your arm and wrist worry me!

[TremF]

5 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Sorry buddy! Your arc that occured must have been much worse than mine!

Hang in there! If you lived closer I would gladly loan you a wheel. The way you describe the pain in your arm and wrist worry me!

Cheers @Rehab1. I think the initial burns on the batteries were caused by bits of the inside of the connector when it blew though it sounds like there is internal damage too making them worse when charging and stopping the battery charging normally but not altogether. With how much a spare battery for my 320wh Ninebot cost I am dreading hearing how much 1600wh for my Monster will be. I am guessing around £500 - £600 each  so £1,000 - £1,200 for both  Unless I sell some stuff on Ebay I may have to settle for my Monster being 1600wh rather than 2400wh but I really wanted that possibility of extra mileage hence the purchase over an MSuper V3.

The arm, although still a pain, I can cope with as it is getting better slowly but the extra walking is aggravating my spine problems. I can't get comfy at night because of neck pain, while I'm walking I have an electric shock sensation all over my back, I have lower back pain and my legs feel like I've run a marathon. I'm also feeling really low & snapping at the slightest things - likely a mixture of the pain & frustration at my limitations again.

Sorry for bringing it here. This is EUC support etc not mental health support.

[meepmeepmayer]

Well, if you're frustrated for good reasons, so it is, nothing strange about that. Sounds like the quick repair by Ian is your best bet, then.

I thought you had a 84V ACM (1300 or 1600 Wh, wide side panels), obviously you can't use 84V battery packs on a 67V wheel or vice versa.

For the ACM motor code, you'd only need to remove that small little plate on the bottom, right side of the wheel (board side) which also lets you pump up the tire. Rotate it until the code is visible. Also, all info (motor code and wheel serial) are on the sticker of the Gotway box, so no disassembly required at all. Your wife could also do a bit or screwing for you.

[TremF]

28 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Well, if you're frustrated for good reasons, so it is, nothing strange about that. Sounds like the quick repair by Ian is your best bet, then.

I thought you had a 84V ACM (1300 or 1600 Wh, wide side panels), obviously you can't use 84V battery packs on a 67V wheel or vice versa.

For the ACM motor code, you'd only need to remove that small little plate on the bottom, right side of the wheel (board side) which also lets you pump up the tire. Rotate it until the code is visible. Also, all info (motor code and wheel serial) are on the sticker of the Gotway box, so no disassembly required at all. Your wife could also do a bit or screwing for you.

When I got the ACM I don't think the MSUPER V3 hadn't been released let alone the 84v versions

I didn't realise the code was so easy to see. Thank you. As for the box... it's somewhere in the loft lol I found the Monster one quite easily but don't remember seeing the one for the ACM. 

I'll start feeling better once I'm mobile as the pain will ease off a bit again & the freedom will clear my head.   

[Rehab1]

3 hours ago, TremF said:

Cheers @Rehab1. I think the initial burns on the batteries were caused by bits of the inside of the connector when it blew though it sounds like there is internal damage too making them worse when charging and stopping the battery charging normally but not altogether. With how much a spare battery for my 320wh Ninebot cost I am dreading hearing how much 1600wh for my Monster will be. I am guessing around £500 - £600 each  so £1,000 - £1,200 for both  Unless I sell some stuff on Ebay I may have to settle for my Monster being 1600wh rather than 2400wh but I really wanted that possibility of extra mileage hence the purchase over an MSuper V3.

The arm, although still a pain, I can cope with as it is getting better slowly but the extra walking is aggravating my spine problems. I can't get comfy at night because of neck pain, while I'm walking I have an electric shock sensation all over my back, I have lower back pain and my legs feel like I've run a marathon. I'm also feeling really low & snapping at the slightest things - likely a mixture of the pain & frustration at my limitations again.

Sorry for bringing it here. This is EUC support etc not mental health support.

I have an idea. I'll get a hold of Ian today and see what can be worked out. 

[US69]

14 hours ago, TremF said:

My batteries have the same black spots as in that post. I don't fancy trying to reconnect batteries again after this incident.

Give it a shot....email to 1radwerkstatt.de and ask if they could replace the BMS!!! It is nonsense to put this Batterie cells to garbage! A BMS is just about 20-30 bucks plus Installation costs! No Need for pay for complete new pack!

I have done a Batterie upgrade there for my MsuperV3 67Volt...and 1rad could even have that exact right and needed BMS for you in there store....(leftover from mine!)

[Rehab1]

@TremF I just spoke to Ian. He will be ripping into your 2 packs that have the burn marks today with your permission. 

 I never knew just how expensive battery packs are. $469 usd times 1.40 for shipping =$606 times 1.26 for import tax =$830 X 2 packs = $1660. 

He said you could go with one new pack and settle 30+ miles distance instead of 50.

Another possibility is finding someone to repair the packs like  @KingSong69suggested. Ian will not repair the packs.

He mentioned about cutting open the 2 packs to see the exact nature of the problem and taking photos. He will be contacting you for your permission. 

[US69]

14 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

@TremF I just spoke to Ian. He will be ripping into your 2 packs that have the burn marks today with your permission. 

 I never knew just how expensive battery packs are. $469 usd times 1.40 for shipping =$606 times 1.26 for import tax =$830 X 2 packs = $1660. 

He said you could go with one new pack and settle 30+ miles distance instead of 50.

Another possibility is finding someone to repair the packs like  @KingSong69suggested. Ian will not repair the packs.

He mentioned about cutting open the 2 packs to see the exact nature of the problem and taking photos. He will be contacting you for your permission. 

@TremF Really...mail to 1radwerkstatt....it is no Problem for him to install a new BMS....and you will get away on the cheap side! It's his daily Job, he is producing Batterie packs for KS/GW all the time and knows what he is doing!

[US69]

@Rehab1 No Need for you to Import them:

 

https://www.ewheels.com/product/800wh-84-2v-battery-pack-for-the-acmsmsuper-v3smonster/

https://www.ewheels.com/product/410wh-67-2v-battery-pack-for-the-acmmsuper-v3/

 

ewheels has all in stock! Ian may be good in Service....but battery wise he has not much knowledge as it seams...do NOT let him cut in the packs, why should he if he will not repair them?

 

 

 

[TremF]

 

27 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

@TremF I just spoke to Ian. He will be ripping into your 2 packs that have the burn marks today with your permission. 

 I never knew just how expensive battery packs are. $469 usd times 1.40 for shipping =$606 times 1.26 for import tax =$830 X 2 packs = $1660. 

He said you could go with one new pack and settle 30+ miles distance instead of 50.

Another possibility is finding someone to repair the packs like  @KingSong69suggested. Ian will not repair the packs.

He mentioned about cutting open the 2 packs to see the exact nature of the problem and taking photos. He will be contacting you for your permission. 

Thank you. The price is what I expected though he has gone back to Gotway asking them why their price is so high when prices have dropped recently. As I said previously the batteries are the most expensive part of an EUC. 

He's just rang and he's going to stick just one of his demo model batteries in (to lower the costs) and give it a ride. He's also going to replace the motor connectors as after his 1000 miler the ones on his and Jon's Monsters had warped and he knows I use mine a lot with it being my main transport. I can look into either getting the last battery in the New Year or see if I can get the damaged ones repaired as he said he can send those back in case I want to try and get them fixed. It's just the safety factor of transporting and storing them.

10 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

@TremF Really...mail to 1radwerkstatt....it is no Problem for him to install a new BMS....and you will get away on the cheap side! It's his daily Job, he is producing Batterie packs for KS/GW all the time and knows what he is doing!

Ian has said about sending the batteries back so I can send them for repair. My only issue is when they come back trying to connect them again. I don't fancy a repeat of the last time. 

[Rehab1]

6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

@Rehab1 No Need for you to Import them:

 

https://www.ewheels.com/product/800wh-84-2v-battery-pack-for-the-acmsmsuper-v3smonster/

https://www.ewheels.com/product/410wh-67-2v-battery-pack-for-the-acmmsuper-v3/

 

ewheels has all in stock! Ian may be good in Service....but battery wise he has not much knowledge as it seams...do NOT let him cut in the packs, why should he if he will not repair them?

 

 

 

That was the cost for Ian to import them. 

[Rehab1]

14 minutes ago, TremF said:

 

Thank you. The price is what I expected though he has gone back to Gotway asking them why their price is so high when prices have dropped recently. As I said previously the batteries are the most expensive part of an EUC. 

He's just rang and he's going to stick just one of his demo model batteries in (to lower the costs) and give it a ride. He's also going to replace the motor connectors as after his 1000 miler the ones on his and Jon's Monsters had warped and he knows I use mine a lot with it being my main transport. I can look into either getting the last battery in the New Year or see if I can get the damaged ones repaired as he said he can send those back in case I want to try and get them fixed. It's just the safety factor of transporting and storing them.

Ian has said about sending the batteries back so I can send them for repair. My only issue is when they come back trying to connect them again. I don't fancy a repeat of the last time. 

Unfortunately batteries make up over 50 % of the wheel cost.  I understand your apprehension to reconnect the packs. Since Ian is replacing the XL 60 connectors ask him if he can replace the pack to mainboard XL60 connector with the XL90 anti spark. 

Also if you are worried about reconnecting the packs just wear some leather gloves. That is what I did after my explosion. It immediately regained my confidence. 

[TremF]

1 minute ago, Rehab1 said:

Unfortunately batteries make up over 50 % of the wheel cost.  I understand your apprehension to reconnect the packs. Since Ian is replacing the XL 60 connectors ask him if he can replace the pack to mainboard XL60 connector with the XL90 anti spark. 

Also if you are worried about reconnecting the packs just wear some leather gloves. That is what I did after my explosion. It immediately regained my confidence. 

As the batteries aren't going to be used, unless repaired, I don't think he will replace the connectors. He didn't mention doing anyway and it doesn't make sense IF I then can't/don't get them repaired? I think he said it's the motor connections he'd replace though my head is mashed with all this & work at the moment so I can't think.

If I can get the batteries repaired I'll def look into some decent rubber gloves - ones that won't melt with the heat if they do arc. My worry, though, is them arcing and damaging the batteries again. I heal.

I've contacted 1radwekstatt so will see what comes back.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Maybe ask if 1radwekstatt can install the anti-spark connectors for you since he would be repairing the battery packs?  Ship him the control board with the batteries?  Or if it's just a one time thing, maybe verify the connection sequence with Ian and Rehab1 and wear gloves.

[Rehab1]

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

 Or if it's just a one time thing, maybe verify the connection sequence with Ian and Rehab1 and wear gloves.

I have disconnected and reconnected the ACM  packs 4 or 5 times since my incident and no problems have occurred. The only sequence I now trust is first reconnecting both packs together and then making the final connection  to the mainboard.

If you want to reduce the mini spark on the final connection first discharge the MB capacitors by depressing the  wheel's on/off switch. The capacitors will drain in a few seconds. Or better yet, install the anti spark XL90s.

[mezzanine]

20 hours ago, TremF said:

Cheers @Rehab1. I think the initial burns on the batteries were caused by bits of the inside of the connector when it blew though it sounds like there is internal damage too making them worse when charging and stopping the battery charging normally but not altogether. With how much a spare battery for my 320wh Ninebot cost I am dreading hearing how much 1600wh for my Monster will be. I am guessing around £500 - £600 each  so £1,000 - £1,200 for both  Unless I sell some stuff on Ebay I may have to settle for my Monster being 1600wh rather than 2400wh but I really wanted that possibility of extra mileage hence the purchase over an MSuper V3.

The arm, although still a pain, I can cope with as it is getting better slowly but the extra walking is aggravating my spine problems. I can't get comfy at night because of neck pain, while I'm walking I have an electric shock sensation all over my back, I have lower back pain and my legs feel like I've run a marathon. I'm also feeling really low & snapping at the slightest things - likely a mixture of the pain & frustration at my limitations again.

Sorry for bringing it here. This is EUC support etc not mental health support.

 

Don't apologize; I can relate to what you're experiencing.  I've had a full sized SUV for the last six years and it gave up the ghost on me a week ago.  It speaks to my anxiety level that I've already got an EUC en route.  It doesn't really make sense for me to replace the SUV for a few reasons.  Doesn't mean losing it has been any easier.  Isn't going to be much fun come full winter here in Canada when even the EUC won't be usable.  I tend to be prone to seasonal affective disorder in part because of the helpless feeling of being trapped indoors. 

I'm a total noob, but I can already see the potential value in having a backup wheel.  I don't like the city I which I currently live, but I'm kind of glad it's not a big city or I would had to pony up for the larger battery. 

 

[TremF]

4 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I have disconnected and reconnected the ACM  packs 4 or 5 times since my incident and no problems have occurred. The only sequence I now trust is first reconnecting both packs together and then making the final connection  to the mainboard.

If you want to reduce the mini spark on the final connection first discharge the MB capacitors by depressing the  wheel's on/off switch. The capacitors will drain in a few seconds. Or better yet, install the anti spark XL90s.

That's what puzzles me. When I disconnected that batteries from the mainboard I discharged the capacitors first thing - not that that mattered because I never got to plug them back into the mainboard anyway. 

When I was connecting everything back up I started by connecting the batteries and was then going to connect them to the mainboard but the two on the battery side arced & seeing the damage I left it as is and closed the Monster back up. I THINK I had connected the little connectors together before doing the big ones if that makes any difference?

[TremF]

It's on route back home! 

I took today off work because I really struggled yesterday & without at least today extra to recover I'd have started work next week feeling worse than when I started this & not even make it to Thursday. I've spent the day sleeping pretty much but already feel a little better for not doing the travel into work.

My Monster has 1 battery replaced & new motor cable connectors & has been tested. It should be with me Monday so depending on how I feel I'll hopefully be back riding into work Tuesday. 

Ian's been great & I really appreciate everything he's done to get me mobile again. As always service way above & beyond. 

I also want to say a massive thank you to everyone here who has given me help & advice & been here when I've needed to sound off. 

It's a great little community & I'm glad I can be part of it.

[esaj]

On 9/20/2017 at 3:23 AM, Rehab1 said:

If you want to reduce the mini spark on the final connection first discharge the MB capacitors by depressing the  wheel's on/off switch. The capacitors will drain in a few seconds. Or better yet, install the anti spark XL90s.

We've been over this before, again wrong way around... the spark occurs BECAUSE the MB capacitors are discharged. Were they charged to the same voltage as the battery pack, no spark should occur, as there'd be no voltage difference and thus no current flowing (I = U/R,  current = voltage difference over resistance)...   What the anti-spark connectors do is charge the capacitors to same voltage as the battery pack through a resistor before the final very, very low resistance connection is made.