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On 6/16/2017 at 10:39 AM, esaj said:

IPS did that with Lhotz a long time ago:

IPS191+Plus.png

 

 

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A long time ago doesn't seem that long ago!  :lol:  I remember we talked about that Lhotz chariot set up with the same goofy boy chases girl video like it was just a little while ago...

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6 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

A long time ago doesn't seem that long ago!  :lol:  I remember we talked about that Lhotz chariot set up with the same goofy boy chases girl video like it was just a little while ago...

I remember that video also, but didn't remember the last scene where two people were riding it at the same time. 

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1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Last year!

 

Thanks for bringing back some great memories!

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Still testing my own unit but Ian put out a solid video on it. Worth a watch for those interested in the wheel.

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Does your unit not make the same brutal solid beep that Ian from SpeedyFeet was getting for half his ride?

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1 hour ago, RooMiniPro said:

Does your unit not make the same brutal solid beep that Ian from SpeedyFeet was getting for half his ride?

I'm really surprised that he didn't seem to realise that it was the overvoltage signal, he got it only when going down hill relatively slowly and only for the first part of the ride where the battery was close to fully charged. That very much suggests it's regen braking putting too high a voltage into the battery.

Ironically, he was slowing down because of that signal whereas it would probably have gone off if he speeded up so as to consume power.

That notwithstanding, @RooMiniPro's description of it being "brutal" is about right, no alarm needs to be that awful surely? About the only thing I didn't like about the wheel. 

It had certainly got me thinking that an i5 for commuting/last mile/ any journey that includes trains, buses or automobiles coupled with something good for long range and off road like a KS-16 or any of the Gotways would be a marriage made in heaven. I REALLY like the idea of it as an around town wheel.

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1 hour ago, Keith said:

I'm really surprised that he didn't seem to realise that it was the overvoltage signal, he got it only when going down hill relatively slowly and only for the first part of the ride where the battery was close to fully charged. That very much suggests it's regen braking putting too high a voltage into the battery.

Ironically, he was slowing down because of that signal whereas it would probably have gone off if he speeded up so as to consume power.

That notwithstanding, @RooMiniPro's description of it being "brutal" is about right, no alarm needs to be that awful surely? About the only thing I didn't like about the wheel. 

It had certainly got me thinking that an i5 for commuting/last mile/ any journey that includes trains, buses or automobiles coupled with something good for long range and off road like a KS-16 or any of the Gotways would be a marriage made in heaven. I REALLY like the idea of it as an around town wheel.

Guys like Ian are so busy they don't read the various forums. In many ways he is less informed about the wheels as we are. I'm not putting him down, just recognizing that his priorities are with making a living selling wheels and not spending X amount of time reading about what the community is doing and the finer points of each wheel.

I bet it would be simple to open that case and either silence the beeper or muffle it with something - maybe a rag ;)

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On 18/06/2017 at 6:56 PM, LanghamP said:

 

now she can't run away, heh heh heh...

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11 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Does your unit not make the same brutal solid beep that Ian from SpeedyFeet was getting for half his ride?

I haven't heard it other when we used the other app to calibrate and it would make a long beep when we turned it on, had to recalibrate with the new app to fix it. No issue now. You are right though, it is brutal. Much louder than previous IPS wheels. I think it is a good thing though.

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Posted (edited)

I hate loud obnoxious beeps.  The E+ has a nice subtle beep that I can always hear but it doesn't alert the whole city that I'm in town and cut through my ears at the same time.  I disconnected the beeper on my Segway MiniPro because it was too loud and annoying.  With the I5 I would find the beeper and wrap it in several layers of rubber sheet until the level was reduced by at least 80%.  I don't think anyone who isn't affiliated with the product (ie. selling it) would ever say that the beeper being that loud and that constant is a good thing. 

Edited by RooMiniPro
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17 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

I hate loud obnoxious beeps.  The E+ has a nice subtle beep that I can always hear but it doesn't alert the whole city that I'm in town and cut through my ears at the same time.  I disconnected the beeper on my Segway MiniPro because it was too loud and annoying.  With the I5 I would find the beeper and wrap it in several layers of rubber sheet until the level was reduced by at least 80%.  I don't think anyone who isn't affiliated with the product (ie. selling it) would ever say that the beeper being that loud and that constant is a good thing.

I hate the loud beeps, but that is what I mean by I like it. If there is a good app that allows you to set the alarm at the speed you would like to not pass, then a loud beep is a good safety feature. On this wheel it is less relevant, but on the Monster or other high end wheels it can be very hard to hear the beep over the wind when at high speeds. Unfortunately this means that at idle it is way too loud, but the added safety makes it worth it.

In regards to the i5 the beeping seems to start closer to the max speed, this means you are nearing the limits unlike some other first alarm and hearing the beep is very important. On wheels where riding through the constant beeping is "safe" this would be annoying, but for the i5 it makes sense.

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On 6/21/2017 at 5:48 PM, Keith said:

That notwithstanding, @RooMiniPro's description of it being "brutal" is about right, no alarm needs to be that awful surely? About the only thing I didn't like about the wheel. 

Isn't an over voltage just about one of the most dangerous situations?

Going downhill, no brakes, probably fall at top speed. I suppose you could ram the wheel into the curb ala rollerblading, or run into the grass.

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On 23.6.2017 at 3:22 PM, LanghamP said:

Isn't an over voltage just about one of the most dangerous situations?

Going downhill, no brakes, probably fall at top speed. I suppose you could ram the wheel into the curb ala rollerblading, or run into the grass.

Jepp. In a similar situation, @esaj's Firewheel just shut off, went ballistic into neighbor's front yard and had him end up ungracefully on his behind (if I recall correctly ... it's a while back). 

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53 minutes ago, Tilmann said:

Jepp. In a similar situation, @esaj's Firewheel just shut off, went ballistic into neighbor's front yard and had him end up ungracefully on his behind (if I recall correctly ... it's a while back). 

Close, but I landed on my feet :P

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Quick question:  Is the power on/off instant or do you have to press and hold of a second or more to power it up/down?

I get annoyed with gotway/kingsong wheels that there is a delay.  It causes issues in crowds when trying to go from riding the carrying and back (i.e. stairs) and detracts from the elegance of riding.

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1 hour ago, Sam Clegg said:

Quick question:  Is the power on/off instant or do you have to press and hold of a second or more to power it up/down?

I get annoyed with gotway/kingsong wheels that there is a delay.  It causes issues in crowds when trying to go from riding the carrying and back (i.e. stairs) and detracts from the elegance of riding.

It's very quick. The placement of the on/off switch is pretty convenient, so that you can pick up and set down the unit in one swift movement while pressing that switch as you grab the handle. Ok, that temp. disable button under the handle of the inmotion V8 is even better, but the i5 is a close second.

A bit of a downside: both sides of the shell are symmetrical. Thus, the placement of the charge connector is in the same spot on the other side. That's a bit fiddly in this position.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sam Clegg said:

Quick question:  Is the power on/off instant or do you have to press and hold of a second or more to power it up/down?

I get annoyed with gotway/kingsong wheels that there is a delay.  It causes issues in crowds when trying to go from riding the carrying and back (i.e. stairs) and detracts from the elegance of riding.

 

Haven't had one in hand myself, but based on the electro-sport.de overview vid, looks to be a latching, mechanical power button (just like iPS Zero power button) with 1 second delay to balance (see 2:47 below).

Dunno,.. IMHO current Gotway & KingSong wheels don't have much [more] delay between powering on/off and balancing (and vice-versa).

Also, for safety, all EUC require an algorithm to prevent accidental power button press shutoff while riding, so there will always be some delay, especially when powering off.

Only real way to achieve quick transitions, from carrying to riding, then back, is to implement a wheel disable switch, ala Ninebot S2/S1/A1 and InMotion, just as @Tilmann is saying.

Otherwise, the next best way I can see is to couple power button press on/off simultaneously with folding/un-folding pedals with your feet, in order to minimize transition times.

 

 

Edited by houseofjob
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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

 

Haven't had one in hand myself, but based on the electro-sport.de overview vid, looks to be a latching, mechanical power button (just like iPS Zero power button) with 1 second delay to balance (see 2:47 below).

Dunno,.. IMHO current Gotway & KingSong wheels don't have much [more] delay between power on/off and balancing and vice-versa.

Also, for safety, all EUC require an algorithm to prevent accidental power button press shutoff while riding, so there will always be some delay, especially when powering off.

Only real way to achieve quick transitions from carrying to riding then back is to implement a wheel disable switch, ala Ninebot S2/S1/A1 and InMotion, as @Tilmann is saying.

Otherwise, the best way I can see is to couple power button press on/off simultaneously with folding/un-folding pedals with your feet, in order to minimize transition times.

 

 

As I own both GotWays and the IPS i5 (actually, it is the very one used for the electro-sport.de video), I can assure you that picking up and setting down the i5 is both quicker and more convenient, than with any of the GotWays (or KingSong KS16). It's an electronic push button, not a mechanical switch. But especially balancing after after switch on happens remarkably fast.

Mind you: I'm right-handed, so when I grab the handle, the thumb finds the switch very naturally. This will not work for left-handers. As the wheel has a non interchangeable front and tail light, left-handed folks can also not simply use the wheel the other way around. That great disable switch on the V8 works for both.

Edited by Tilmann
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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Thanks, I hadn't seen that review before. 

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Haven't had one in hand myself, but based on the electro-sport.de overview vid, looks to be a latching, mechanical power button (just like iPS Zero power button) with 1 second delay to balance (see 2:47 below).

Dunno,.. IMHO current Gotway & KingSong wheels don't have much [more] delay between powering on/off and balancing (and vice-versa).

Also, for safety, all EUC require an algorithm to prevent accidental power button press shutoff while riding, so there will always be some delay, especially when powering off.

I have to disagree with you on that point.  EUC's do not all require this.  It was a "feature" introduced a year or so ago (the MCM2 didn't have it for example) and seems have become commonplace.   People seem to think it prevents accidental shutdown but I will disagree:   When was the last time to came close to touching the power button while riding?  At least for me, it just doesn't happen.

There are actually two things that KS and gotway will do which (I think) they justified by this argument:

(1) Force to to hold the button for a second or more

(2) Don't allow you to turn the wheel off (at all!!) while its spinning.

Its actually number (2) which I really object to as a safety feature.  It means that if you are holding the power button down in order to turn off the wheel, and you pick it up just a couple of millisecond too early the wheel will start spinning uncontrollably, often resulting in an embarrassing and time consuming few second while you wait for the wheel reach max RPM,  start beeping and then shut itself down.  During this time you cannot shut down the wheel!   Have others experienced this?   It seems crazy that one is not allowed to shut the wheel down in such circumstances.. all because somebody though that they might press the power button while riding?

I guess the question is:  Do people really believe there a chance of accidentally pressing the power button while riding?  If so, I suggest that your wheel has the power button in the wrong place.

Sorry to derail this thread, this is just a sore point for me that has annoyed me with all my wheels since the original solowheel.

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Only real way to achieve quick transitions, from carrying to riding, then back, is to implement a wheel disable switch, ala Ninebot S2/S1/A1 and InMotion, just as @Tilmann is saying.

Otherwise, the next best way I can see is to couple power button press on/off simultaneously with folding/un-folding pedals with your feet, in order to minimize transition times.

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Sam Clegg said:

I guess the question is:  Do people really believe there a chance of accidentally pressing the power button while riding?

No. But on an any-error-means-crash device such as a self-balancing vehicle, you do not want to accidentally shut off the wheel due to some error in a non-essential (to riding) component like the power button. Be it a rusty old button, unlucky bump, rain or moisture getting in, some kind of electrical failure or static electricity causing a current spike that activates the shutdown command, whatever, any combination of whatever.

You simply don't add unnecessary possible failure points. If something is not absolutely necessary to riding, it should not be able to shut off the wheel unless it is guaranteed you aren't riding. You simply minimize the number of components that will crash you if they do something unwanted by shutting every nonessential (to riding) component out of the decision making.

(1) is great because it stops you from switching the wheel on or off accidentally (you could as well argue that you don't want the wheel to start spinning while carrying it and something brushes the [worst case: capacitive] power button).

(2) is absolutely essential. The wheel not simply shutting off while the tire is spinning is the most obvious safety feature I can imagine.

Safety > possibly convenience, simple as that:)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sam Clegg said:

I guess the question is:  Do people really believe there a chance of accidentally pressing the power button while riding?  If so, I suggest that your wheel has the power button in the wrong place.

 

Ummm.. agree to disagree.

Until someone implements a smart leg sensor to detect rider presence, like the now seemingly defunct UniWheel once proposed, I, personally, will never buy any EUC you can turn off while the wheel is spinning. Sh*t can and will happen. And I have a feeling I'm not the only one with this sentiment.

That said, mistakenly picking up an EUC while powered on is an easy fix if you are knowledgeable: either set it back down, ie riderless (will stop), or, for some manufacturer wheels (not remembering quite which currently), lean it flat, past 45º from perpendicular, and the wheel should stop.

Edited by houseofjob
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On 7/3/2017 at 6:00 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

No. But on an any-error-means-crash device such as a self-balancing vehicle, you do not want to accidentally shut off the wheel due to some error in a non-essential (to riding) component like the power button. Be it a rusty old button, unlucky bump, rain or moisture getting in, some kind of electrical failure or static electricity causing a current spike that activates the shutdown command, whatever, any combination of whatever.

You simply don't add unnecessary possible failure points. If something is not absolutely necessary to riding, it should not be able to shut off the wheel unless it is guaranteed you aren't riding. You simply minimize the number of components that will crash you if they do something unwanted by shutting every nonessential (to riding) component out of the decision making.

(1) is great because it stops you from switching the wheel on or off accidentally (you could as well argue that you don't want the wheel to start spinning while carrying it and something brushes the [worst case: capacitive] power button).

(2) is absolutely essential. The wheel not simply shutting off while the tire is spinning is the most obvious safety feature I can imagine.

Safety > possibly convenience, simple as that:)

I don't buy that changing the button from "long press" to "short press" introduces a new failure point.  Weather or not a power button can fail by being rusty/old/wet/loose (I should hope none of these) is independent of whether its is a "long press" or "short press" that triggers the shut down.   If you really think that instant shutoff buttons are so terrible to you also think that the in-motion handle switch is dangerous idea? 

 

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Posted (edited)

How long you press does indeed not add a failure point and there's essentially no difference in safety when riding. My point was mainly about why you should not allow any input from any power button type while the wheel is spinning. Though you could argue, if the power button were to allow switching off the wheel while riding, a long press is less likely to happen accidentally than a short press.

Personally, I still prefer long press because it is virtually impossible to accidentally activate it (mostly switching the wheel on) - it just makes the entire thing feel more controllable and safer. My real gripe are capacitive buttons, if you had such one + short press + the wheel can be switched off while the tire is spinning, that would be a disastrous combination.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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