esaj Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just thought I'd put up some notes of comparing the KS16B (680Wh, second hand, not sure on "revision", probably made in April 2016) and KS16S (made in March 2017). The B's on firmware version 1.23 (and I have no plans of upgrading it), and the S is on 1.0. Apparently there's no newer version of the S firmware even available yet, but even if there was, I'm not going to be a "test-pilot" for that either I haven't got that much riding done on either yet (the rough kilometers are on my signature, around 245km for the S and 60km for the B at the time of this writing), and many things are pretty objective anyway. Anyone's of course welcome to chime in with their views or things they've noticed. I took the B for a brief spin (about 25km) tonight, and noticed again that the "level"/horizontal pedals seem much less comfortable to me than the slightly angled ones on S. I think someone mentioned that the newer 16B's/C's and 14C's/D's etc. have the same slanted pedals as the S, so probably not an issue on the newer makes. The grip's fine, although not as good, on the old pedals too, and it might just come down to being more accustomed to the S's pedals since I've ridden it more, and the B's pedals aren't anything like really uncomfortable either. The side near the tip of my shoe did hit the ground on a tight turn on this evening's ride (luckily it just scraped and I didn't fall off or anything), although, the tire's still under-pressured (I forgot to fill it since I got ill the first time I took the B for a longer ride), which might take a bit off the height, but still, the angled pedals give a little more height. Now that I've accustomed to riding again, I can ride 20-30km in one go without stopping and feel no discomfort, at least as long as I move my feet around a bit here and there and have a good foot position, if I just "stand" there for an hour straight or my position's off, it will get uncomfortable at some point and require stopping or starting to shift the weight between the heels and balls of my feet. This with hiking boots, with sneakers it can get uncomfortable sooner. I wouldn't mind the pedals being a little bit higher off the ground on the S either, though. Time will tell if I'm going to hit the ground with them too. The riding modes seem similar on both. I've mostly used the "Riding mode" (the "medium" one, stiffest/hardest is Player mode and softest is Learning mode) on both, although I did do some forest paths on the B this evening with the Player mode. There weren't any really steep hills on the route I took, so I cannot tell if the B has the same issue as the S with getting it to accelerate uphill with the Player mode. On the S, for me, it's harder to accelerate on steep uphills in the Player mode vs. the Riding mode. Might be just that I weight too little to get enough force to press the pedals down with the stiffest mode when going (steep) uphill. Bear in mind that I'm more light weight than most riders, for me there doesn't seem to be that much difference between the Player and Riding mode with the pedals staying level (they do tilt a little bit with Riding mode, especially climbing hills or hitting potholes at speed, but it's pretty little), but heavier riders have said that the Riding mode is too soft for them. Learning mode was too soft for my liking on the S, haven't even tried it on the B. The B had issues with the app connecting today, I had to restart the wheel and the app several times to get it to connect. At times the app didn't even see the B, other times it would try to connect and then return to the "Scan"-view, or just crash. Not sure if it's an issue with the app, or the wheel or both. Once it connects, it seems to be able to reconnect without problem. Never had connectivity issues with the S so far, it always connects on first try. On the S, the lights can be turned on with a short press of the smaller button, and then they stay that way until the wheel is turned off. I've set it on "ON" (as in always on, the setting that uses the light sensor is "AUTO") in the app, but it doesn't seem to store the setting, and resets back to "AUTO". On the B, either the button works differently, or it cannot be used to turn the lights on, so I had to use the app to get them to turn on (and then had the connectivity issues). Probably should just tape over the light sensor, as I prefer to ride with the lights always on. I don't think the front light's bright enough to actually show you the way, but help with other people seeing you. Of course it's a bit hard to gauge, since it's closing on solstice, and it doesn't get really dark here this time of year. I'll see at some point if I can mod the B's casing to fit the 20W motorcycle headlights I got for the Firewheel a couple years back for actual riding lights, but not sure if there's a strong enough point at a good position for them. If the wheels had battery gauges you can glimpse on while riding and easy way to turn on the riding lights (well, the S does, and of course the light sensor can be taped over), I'd never use the app for anything but changing the riding modes, although I suspect that I'm going to stick with the "Riding mode" anyway. Power-wise, it's hard to gauge yet, I haven't really really pushed them yet that much and it wouldn't be fair anyway, since the tire-pressure on the B is way too low right now (yeah, I'll get around to fill it now that I remembered the issue again ), but not surprisingly, the S seems more powerful. Still, I could take the B to above the warning-level I've set (let's not go to the speeds, anything even capable above 25km/h is illegal here ) without any issues, on- and off-road (and uphills), and have yet to come up to a situation where it would seem to be running out of power. Same with the S. Not that I'm really going to try to outlean them either Probably best to test in climbing situations, starting on a hill from standstill and such. The shells and the trolley handles seems to be the same. Love the handle really, so much easier to pull it out and roll around the wheel if needed vs. carrying it, and no need to turn it off/on in between (unless you have to lift the wheel). Only difference I've noticed so far (actually it was @dside who noticed it, I popped by with the S yesterday as he's in town, although he didn't have his KS with him yet) is that the LED-covers are (more) see-through on the S, and more darker on the B (or then the LEDs are just brighter). Not a concern to me either way, the only use I have for them is to check the battery during a stop, and otherwise keep the lights off. Also, I've had both of the wheels on "beep"-warnings only (Voice commands or whatever the setting was called in the app), but the "Hello King Song!"-message plays on the S even then, and it seems there's currently no way to shut it off. dside said that the volume of the voice messages is much lower on the S vs. the B, so it's not that much of an issue at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Use black Sähköteippi on the speakers, waterproofing + less sound I also put some reflectors on my unicycle over the speakers and some black tape over the light sensor so the light stays on at night when passing lights = legal in Sweden. You can easily still hear the beeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Same in Sweden about capable of 20 km/h, however to limit it in the app is fine and counts as legal from my understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukasz Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 On 6/8/2017 at 11:30 PM, esaj said: S is on 1.0. Apparently there's no newer version of the S firmware even available yet, but even if there was, I'm not going to be a "test-pilot" for that either New KS16S (produced 2017 06 08) arrived to me with firmware V1.02 Great wheel! ==> again next step forward comparing to KS16! I will add some more comments but I need to go and use this nice weather first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukasz Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 On 6/8/2017 at 11:30 PM, esaj said: Also, I've had both of the wheels on "beep"-warnings only (Voice commands or whatever the setting was called in the app), but the "Hello King Song!"-message plays on the S even then, and it seems there's currently no way to shut it off. dside said that the volume of the voice messages is much lower on the S vs. the B, so it's not that much of an issue at least for me New KS16S with firmware 1.02 DOES NOT SPEAK anything when turned ON, (even if it is in the "Voice" mode... (@34km/h it starts to speak "please deccelerate") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vladmarks Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 On 08/06/2017 at 10:30 PM, esaj said: (680Wh, second hand, not sure on "revision", probably made in April 2016) As far as I remember, these were off the summer 2016 batch, approx June. So realistically could have been produced either April or May. On 08/06/2017 at 10:30 PM, esaj said: I took the B for a brief spin (about 25km) tonight, and noticed again that the "level"/horizontal pedals seem much less comfortable to me than the slightly angled ones on S. I think someone mentioned that the newer 16B's/C's and 14C's/D's etc. have the same slanted pedals as the S, so probably not an issue on the newer makes. The grip's fine, although not as good, on the old pedals too, and it might just come down to being more accustomed to the S's pedals since I've ridden it more, and the B's pedals aren't anything like really uncomfortable either Would agree with you on the pedals side, it takes some time to get used to. Can't wait to try the pedals on 16S with improved gripping. On 08/06/2017 at 10:30 PM, esaj said: The B had issues with the app connecting today, I had to restart the wheel and the app several times to get it to connect. At times the app didn't even see the B, other times it would try to connect and then return to the "Scan"-view, or just crash. Not sure if it's an issue with the app, or the wheel or both. Once it connects, it seems to be able to reconnect without problem. Never had connectivity issues with the S so far, it always connects on first try. Which app version are you using? Could be that I haven't updated mine for a while, but it did not have any issues and connected on sight every time. On 08/06/2017 at 10:30 PM, esaj said: On the B, either the button works differently, or it cannot be used to turn the lights on, so I had to use the app to get them to turn on (and then had the connectivity issues). Probably should just tape over the light sensor, as I prefer to ride with the lights always on. Does that reset on both versions after reloading the wheel? I couldn't grasp that before as it was always on AUTO mode. On 08/06/2017 at 10:30 PM, esaj said: Power-wise, it's hard to gauge yet, I haven't really really pushed them yet that much and it wouldn't be fair anyway, since the tire-pressure on the B is way too low right now (yeah, I'll get around to fill it now that I remembered the issue again ), but not surprisingly, the S seems more powerful. Still, I could take the B to above the warning-level I've set (let's not go to the speeds, anything even capable above 25km/h is illegal here ) without any issues, on- and off-road (and uphills), and have yet to come up to a situation where it would seem to be running out of power. Same with the S. Not that I'm really going to try to outlean them either Probably best to test in climbing situations, starting on a hill from standstill and such. Would not be able to imagine the way to overpower them as an average consumer. The limitations of 680wh start kicking in around 1 month after using it. I am yet to discover how long would it take me to get used to the power of S version. Thank you for a comprehensive review, makes it even harder to wait in anticipation for the stock of 16S. Could very well get some via UPS before the main stock gets loaded on the ship if I keep reading positive things about KS16S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 23 minutes ago, vladmarks said: As far as I remember, these were off the summer 2016 batch, approx June. So realistically could have been produced either April or May. Yeah, the guess it's made in April comes from the serial number having "1604" in it, which I guess relates to the date of manufacture (the S has "1703" in it). Quote Would agree with you on the pedals side, it takes some time to get used to. Can't wait to try the pedals on 16S with improved gripping. Both pedals could be slightly larger, but other than that, they're not uncomfortable. I'd say that my preference to the newer angled pedals is just a matter of riding more with them. Quote Which app version are you using? Could be that I haven't updated mine for a while, but it did not have any issues and connected on sight every time. I did have problems once this last weekend with the S not connecting on first try too. Could be down to the app, it's the newest I could find, downloaded directly from King Song's website. If I had to guess, the issue could be linked to having more Bluetooth devices around, as in the occasions where I've had problems, the app was seeing lots of other devices around it. Quote Does that reset on both versions after reloading the wheel? I couldn't grasp that before as it was always on AUTO mode. I've just used the button on the S, but the one time I tried to set it on the app, it forgot the setting the next time it was turned off. On the B, I've just placed a piece of tape over the sensor so the lights are always on Quote Would not be able to imagine the way to overpower them as an average consumer. The limitations of 680wh start kicking in around 1 month after using it. I am yet to discover how long would it take me to get used to the power of S version. I guess I'm too light-weight (about 60kg / 132lbs in full gear) to be used as an example, but I haven't noticed much difference in the power on either wheel. The only difficulty so far has been getting them to accelerate in steep uphills (especially off-road), as it seems I can't easily put enough force at the end of the pedals to make it accelerate fast in steep uphill. Using the softer Riding mode has helped there, but on the weekend, we went for some off road-riding with steep and rocky uphills, and I couldn't "tip-toe" on the pedals as I would have fallen, so I had to crawl up hills at a lot slower pace (this was on the B ). I rode the B for almost 40km on that trip, and the battery dropped to about 35% in the end. On the S, I had 43%/57.0V left after almost 50km route! Quote Thank you for a comprehensive review, makes it even harder to wait in anticipation for the stock of 16S. Could very well get some via UPS before the main stock gets loaded on the ship if I keep reading positive things about KS16S No problem, but it's just some notes and comparisons so far. I'm holding back on writing an actual "review" yet, as I still haven't got enough experience with either wheel (had a flu for about week and a half, and the weather hasn't been that friendly, but I managed to ride about 130km in total in the weekend). It will take a while to really see all the downsides too, the typical problem with too early reviews and first impressions is that you're still so "in love" with the new wheel that you tend to turn a blind eye to the downsides and just praise it as the best thing ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukasz Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Please find below the comparison of the pedal angles between KS16 and KS16S. It does not seem a lot but in real world it makes the difference.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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