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KS-14C Not balancing


Maximus

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58 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:
Basic instructions for gaining access to the 14C internals:
1) Carefully pull away some of the protective padding where the screw holes are 
2) Unscrew side panel
3) Examine the power inline fuses 
 
uc?export=view&id=0B-WCZQc2gfJjX0ZlYmFpY
 
uc?export=view&id=0B-WCZQc2gfJjeXFjQlMxT
 
 
uc?export=view&id=0B-WCZQc2gfJjWWV0VnJrU
 
Damn forgot to watermark the images, wonder how many minutes it will be before they're  on AliExpress....

 

KS14C1.jpg

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1 minute ago, Maximus said:

Images are still not showing on my end...

Disregard. They show if I click the link, thanks!  Oh and the Charge Doctor was showing a good voltage reading. Counting up from 64ish to 67. It didn't cut out as low as I thought. I set it to cut out around 65, I think. 

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8 hours ago, Maximus said:

Disregard. They show if I click the link, thanks!  Oh and the Charge Doctor was showing a good voltage reading. Counting up from 64ish to 67. It didn't cut out as low as I thought. I set it to cut out around 65, I think. 

Just found this thread--

I've been using the wheel despite the control board's issue with measuring voltage.  I use the charge doctor set to terminate the charge at 66 volts.   I can ride the wheel without any tilt - back when I use the charge doctor that way.

I did notice that the voltage as reported by the Charge Doctor is higher than 66 volts when get around to taking the charger off and riding the wheel (usually after an hour or two).  It's over 67 volts.

I don't understand this at all.  I plan to use the Charge Doctor usb dongle to investigate what happens at charge (and after) charge termination.  But, despite the voltage being higher than the 66 volt programed charge termination, it hasn't been causing an issue.  I can immediately ride down my steep driveway several hundred feet without tiltback.

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On 6/2/2017 at 9:25 AM, Maximus said:

After looking around a bit, I found this post by @DaveThomasPilot and I'm almost positive that this is the problem (although my wheel is not tilting back and forth)...

Last night, before charging, the wheel was fine, then I charged for the first time.  Although I was using a Charge Doctor, I didn't have the auto-cut setup by Voltage, instead it was on the default Amt cut off at 1.0.  With my other wheel and CD the amp cut didn't seem to work so I changed to a voltage cut and have had great success ever since.  Anyway, my theory is that I overcharged it last night and that's why it is behaving the way it is now.  I'm going to try leaving the wheel on for a while to drain the battery a bit and see if that does the trick...hopefully I can follow up later today with confirmation...thanks to this forum and specifically @DaveThomasPilot for his post!

 

My symptoms were a bit different...   The wheel would balance, but would tilt back and forth.  That made it a pain to discharge the batteries.

I put the wheel in a waste basket to hold it upright while it was self discharging.  It's been a while, but I think that caused it to start beeping and discontinue trying to balance.  At the time, I was just trying to get the battery voltage down and didn't bother figuring out exactly what was causing the beeping.

 

 

 

 

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I did notice that the voltage

as reported by the Charge Doctor is higher than 66 volts when get around to taking the charger off and riding the wheel (usually after an hour or two).  It's over 67 volts.

I don't understand this at all  ...

Thought about this some more.  The charge doctor can only report the voltage on the cathode side of a blocking diode.  So, when the CD cuts off the charge by opening a series switch, it's actually measuring the output of the charger, not the battery voltage.

Apparently, the charger outputs 67.2 with enough current to power the charger doctor (forever).

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/4/2017 at 9:34 PM, Jason McNeil said:

3) Examine the power inline fuses

Ok, I'm finally here, but I don't see the power inline fuses, can you (or anyone) tell me where they are hiding?RenderedContent-CE24C24C-A9A8-4DE6-8D02-25F8FC13B6DB.thumb.JPG.e52c083994dcebf892826a565b35fea0.JPG

 

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17 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

To the upper-right of the battery pack, there's a small fuse junction box, it's tucked under the pack. 

So I need to remove the battery pack in order to see it?

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On 6/15/2017 at 9:21 AM, Jason McNeil said:

To the upper-right of the battery pack, there's a small fuse junction box, it's tucked under the pack. 

Fuse looks good...

RenderedContent-F3650BDE-1C03-4CBB-BA9D-F4CD227FB0B0.thumb.JPG.7abbe29af7efff33c2c84643226fa64a.JPG

I guess I'll try replacing the smaller board first...wish me luck!RenderedContent-42FDDDA9-D228-4F20-A542-AD430B8E9DC4.thumb.JPG.69815fff7a851007bfacaed137b147f5.JPG

 

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A few observations after doing this wheel repair:

1) its a great feeling to do your own work and have it be successful :thumbup:

2) I stripped the crap out of so many screws that I don't know if I'll ever get it open again, hopefully I don't have to :P

3) the new smaller board with the battery display actually has a USB port, but it's now hiding under the side panel. Anyone have an idea on how to expose the USB port?  Do I need a different side panel for this?  No biggie, just would be nice to have as a potential charge port for my phone :laughbounce2:

4) The new board had two of these larger things on the side (see pics below) while the old board only had one. It made it extremely hard to find room for it to fit. Hopefully it's ok to cram it into the side of the battery cause I really couldn't figure out any other place for it :confused1:

Old board with one big green thing on the side:

RenderedContent-EF590BA5-62E3-4FAC-92D9-0DB04EC3B95C.thumb.JPG.82c6c1e247bb82167bd6d6c44dc0c5b2.JPG

New board with two big black things on the side and my illustration of me cramming one into the side of the battery:

RenderedContent-32785CBE-D43F-48E0-AA0F-D3C711675FD3.thumb.JPG.9cb8b8666559e04a2ef560b9a3cbcee8.JPG

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Those are the two electrolytic capacitors.  Be careful with them as you don't want to short or damage the metal legs.  Is that one cap off board?  :blink:  Wow looks like someone soldered some wires to the cap legs to allow it to be stuffed in the side area because it's too tight around the board?   That's interesting and not really a sound kind of design element?  It should work, but I would secure that cap with some tape to the casing or something to avoid it bouncing around due to vibration.

Are you sure you got the right parts version for your wheel?  Regarding the USB there are USB extension ribbon cables you can get, but maybe a correct part would be better?  Did your old board have an extension cable?

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9 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Those are the two electrolytic capacitors.  Be careful with them as you don't want to short or damage the metal legs.  Is that one cap off board?  :blink:  Wow looks like someone soldered some wires to the cap legs to allow it to be stuffed in the side area because it's too tight around the board?   That's interesting and not really a sound kind of design element?  It should work, but I would secure that cap with some tape to the casing or something to avoid it bouncing around due to vibration.  There's no room in the control board area?

The longer one is connected to the same place as the shorter one (which is basically the same spot as the single green one on the original board). I tried all kinds of spots to hide it but that was the best I could do. It didn't feel like a great spot but I just couldn't see any other options...do you think it's safe the way I have it or should I go back in and try finding room on the board again?

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Ah maybe check with @Jason McNeil?  Maybe that's standard for that wheel?  I dunno.  Seems kinda weird to have an important electronics component dangling off by some wires there, but as long as the battery doesn't squish against it during a fall it might be fine?  :blink:  Any KS14 experts out there?

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8 hours ago, Maximus said:

A few observations after doing this wheel repair:

1) its a great feeling to do your own work and have it be successful :thumbup:

2) I stripped the crap out of so many screws that I don't know if I'll ever get it open again, hopefully I don't have to :P

3) the new smaller board with the battery display actually has a USB port, but it's now hiding under the side panel. Anyone have an idea on how to expose the USB port?  Do I need a different side panel for this?  No biggie, just would be nice to have as a potential charge port for my phone :laughbounce2:

4) The new board had two of these larger things on the side (see pics below) while the old board only had one. It made it extremely hard to find room for it to fit. Hopefully it's ok to cram it into the side of the battery cause I really couldn't figure out any other place for it :confused1:

Old board with one big green thing on the side:

RenderedContent-EF590BA5-62E3-4FAC-92D9-0DB04EC3B95C.thumb.JPG.82c6c1e247bb82167bd6d6c44dc0c5b2.JPG

New board with two big black things on the side and my illustration of me cramming one into the side of the battery:

RenderedContent-32785CBE-D43F-48E0-AA0F-D3C711675FD3.thumb.JPG.9cb8b8666559e04a2ef560b9a3cbcee8.JPG

I saw a second cap on a video about changing a tire on a KS14C.  I was wondering why that wheel had two caps instead of one.

I considered adding a second to mine when I was replacing the control board, but it was a real chore just getting the connectors tucked in beside/under the battery, let alone another cap.  So, I didn't bother.

Anyone want to speculate why KS seems to have doubled the amount of capacitance at some point?

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KS changed that with two caps on later versions...my 14 c had this second cap on the same place where you put it, so i guess that is ok....

secure it by some rubber pieces, so that it can not move or brake his legs!

to the usb:

older versions of this small board had usb...but it was getting rid of because its in no way waterproof!

So IF you want use it ME PERSONAL would take a extension cable to make it longer and lead it somewhere out, where water can not go in the shell.....

dont use it by pulling a hole into the shell on the upside or if you decide to do that, then do silicon it like hell and use a waterproof plug to secure it properly!

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

KS changed that with two caps on later versions...my 14 c had this second cap on the same place where you put it, so i guess that is ok....

secure it by some rubber pieces, so that it can not move or brake his legs!

to the usb:

older versions of this small board had usb...but it was getting rid of because its in no way waterproof!

So IF you want use it ME PERSONAL would take a extension cable to make it longer and lead it somewhere out, where water can not go in the shell.....

dont use it by pulling a hole into the shell on the upside or if you decide to do that, then do silicon it like hell and use a waterproof plug to secure it properly!

Great info, thank you!

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Not to be negative but informative, by using correctly the exact fitting quality phillips head screw driver, one will never strip heads.

One needs to know how much force is needed to get a bolt, screw tight but not strip either the threads or head.

If you find yourself lacking the good tool, do your self a favor and get one!

ukj

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