Dr Mick Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 My KS16S 840Wh arrived yesterday evening and here are my initial impressions. I ordered this directly from King Song on the 9th and it arrived on the evening of the 29th. So those of you who are impatient might do best to order it from a local supplier instead Apart from the wheel, there’s nothing much in the box; a flimsy manual and of course a charger, but nothing else. However, the wheel itself looks absolutely gorgeous and gives a quite high quality impression. I ordered the rubber black version and it is very nice to the touch. The serial number starts with “KS16 S2 D …” but I do not know if this means it is already somehow a second iteration on the KS16S or if they all have this model number. I took it out for a short 8 km ride yesterday, but today it started raining so apart from a short early morning trip unfortunately I will have to wait until tomorrow to ride more. Luckily, the wheel arrived with 50% charge so I could immediately take it out for a spin. I had no problem whatsoever to just jump on it and go, although the feeling is a bit different from my other wheels. it seems to have a lot of the manoeuvrability from my IPS Zero but is much easier to balance than the Zero it has the same feeling of heft as my Xima Lhotz although it feels marginally less steady due to having a slightly narrower tire When driving, the sides lit up like disco lights. I am happy that the light show can be turned off in the app. Bling is not my thing. There is also a quite loud “Hello King Song” voice when you start it up - and I soon hit the preset 18km/h preset with the voice going “Please decelerate” so loudly that people around me looked up in surprise. Luckily the voice warnings can be switched to beeps in the app, but unfortunately that cannot be done with the welcoming message. I wish they could have a startup sound as an alternative. Speaking of the app, it is much better than the previous apps I have had. I like the fact that the (iPhone) app tells you how much riding distance you have left - but I wonder if that is just a hard-coded conversion of the battery level or if the app actually takes some of the riding stats it collects into the calculation. It should if it doesn’t already!! The riding mode was initially set to “player” mode which compared to the other wheels I have had is very stiff in the sense that it keeps the foot pedals more or less horizontal. I have read that some have trouble with pressing the foot pedals forward, and do not think acceleration is good. I believe that might be because they are riding the EUC in “player” mode. i switched the setting to “cycling” mode instead and then the pedals can be tilted more forward when accelerating. And, importantly, they can be tilted backwards when braking - something which I found a bit challenging in “player” mode. There is also a softer “learning” mode that I have not tried. Since it was getting dark as I was riding, I noticed that the light sensors automatically turned on the headlight - a nice touch! Speaking of nice touches, the retractable handle is really superb. I was getting tired of always having to carry around my wheel and although the Xima was maybe a couple of kilos lighter, it was still a pain. Now I can roll my KingSong with me when going shopping, for example - great!! On the less positive side, there is a very distinct high-pitched whining noise that I never experienced on the IPS Zero or the Xima Lhotz. A bit annoying, I must say - but I understand that this is quite common with newer wheels. Also, the manual is a mess. It would seem such a simple thing to maybe ask someone on this forum to clean up the English a bit. Maybe they could also supply a link to a more up-to-date digital version of it. The “cycling” mode in the app is not even mentioned in the manual, for example. The manual also says that you should “use the inflation tube” when filling air in the tire - there isn’t one and you do not need one. Overall: I was choosing between the King Song 16S and the Gotway ACM, and right now I feel that I really made the right decision. I don’t want to go faster than 35 km/h since I rather cruise and use less protective gear than try to get myself killed speeding to the max. I get the impression that King Song are focusing more on reliability and staying within the limits here - and that is exactly what I want. Also, after just one day, I already no longer understand how I could live without an integrated handle before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Interesting that you can't turn off the "Hello King Song" when you power up. On my KS18, when I have the beeps replace the verbal warning to decelerate, the prompt at power on is also a beep. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 Maybe I forgot to turn on and off after I changed to beeps! Will double check that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I'm fairly sure that the "Hello King Song"-greeting still played with the S even after changing the warnings to beeps, but I'd have to double-check. On the B, the greeting is also turned off when the warnings are set to beeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Dr Mick said: My KS16S 840Wh arrived yesterday evening and here are my initial impressions. I ordered this directly from King Song on the 9th and it arrived on the evening of the 29th. So those of you who are impatient might do best to order it from a local supplier instead Congrats on the new wheel! 1 hour ago, Dr Mick said: Apart from the wheel, there’s nothing much in the box; a flimsy manual and of course a charger, but nothing else. I had a 40A fuse there (although the originals are 30A?), but maybe it was added by the reseller (1RadWerkstatt). 1 hour ago, Dr Mick said: The serial number starts with “KS16 S2 D …” but I do not know if this means it is already somehow a second iteration on the KS16S or if they all have this model number. Mine starts with "KS16 S2 S", followed by number 170317, which I think could mean that the wheel was manufactured on 17th of March, 2017. Or then the numbers are just a coincidence. 1 hour ago, Dr Mick said: Speaking of the app, it is much better than the previous apps I have had. I like the fact that the (iPhone) app tells you how much riding distance you have left - but I wonder if that is just a hard-coded conversion of the battery level or if the app actually takes some of the riding stats it collects into the calculation. It should if it doesn’t already!! At least in the Android-version, it's calculated based on voltage and model (basically a constant factor selected by battery size). Also the remaining battery percentage is calculated straight from the voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 44 minutes ago, esaj said: Congrats on the new wheel! I had a 40A fuse there (although the originals are 30A?), but maybe it was added by the reseller (1RadWerkstatt). Mine starts with "KS16 S2 S", followed by number 170317, which I think could mean that the wheel was manufactured on 17th of March, 2017. Or then the numbers are just a coincidence. At least in the Android-version, it's calculated based on voltage and model (basically a constant factor selected by battery size). Also the remaining battery percentage is calculated straight from the voltage. Thanks I did not see any fuse in my box! You are probably right about the numbers being the manufacturing date - because I just checked now and mine is 170510. Given that my order was placed on May 9th, it makes a lot of sense! Calculating just based on voltage and model seems like there are lots of data points collected but not used - but I believe you are probably right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, abinder3 said: Interesting that you can't turn off the "Hello King Song" when you power up. On my KS18, when I have the beeps replace the verbal warning to decelerate, the prompt at power on is also a beep. Allen I checked again and my warnings are set to beeps but the "Hello King Song" thing still plays when starting up. I am using the iPhone app - should I try the Android app instead, maybe there are differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, Dr Mick said: I checked again and my warnings are set to beeps but the "Hello King Song" thing still plays when starting up. I am using the iPhone app - should I try the Android app instead, maybe there are differences? I have the Android-version, the "Hello King Song"-message is still there even when the warnings are otherwise changed to beeps with KS16S. With the KS16B, the "Hello King Song"-message is also gone after changing warnings to beeps. It's probably not the app, but the wheel firmware itself? There seems to be no KS16S-firmware update available yet, but even if there was, I wouldn't want to be the first to try it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Zens Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 34 minutes ago, Dr Mick said: I checked again and my warnings are set to beeps but the "Hello King Song" thing still plays when starting up. I am using the iPhone app - should I try the Android app instead, maybe there are differences? I can second that (Android App). The Hello message doesn't go away. Also, the "Bluetooth is connected" message doesn't go away. So, when my phone is nearby and I turn on the wheel, I get "Hello Kingsong - Bluetooth is connected". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Christoph Zens said: I can second that (Android App). The Hello message doesn't go away. Also, the "Bluetooth is connected" message doesn't go away. So, when my phone is nearby and I turn on the wheel, I get "Hello Kingsong - Bluetooth is connected". OK, so I won't fire up my Android phone for this then Let us hope there will eventually be a firmware update that fixes this. Since the rain stopped, I visited my mother in an old people's home this afternoon - and having that "Hello King Song" voice echo through the hallway when I was leaving was not so pleasant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukasz Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 As I still wait for my KS16S to arrive in around 10 more days... - can You happy users of KS16S please check how stable the BT connection is on KS16S with Android ? On my KS16 and Android 5.1 Galaxy Note 4 phone - with firmware V1.23 the wheel was nicely reconnecting to the original KS app and also (even better) to the WheelLlog nicely without any problems, connection was super steady, even after switching the wheel off or getting with phone out of range - connection was restoring itself well. In Firmware V1.25 - it is not so nice any more - original application must be started, it must "request" wheel to respond, then when KS app connects, then I can start WheelLog, it connects as the second application well, then I can switch the KS app off, and WhelLog stays connected. .... as long as I do not switch the wheel off (even for few seconds) as if I do, the whole initiation procedure must be repeated. (KS application needs to be manually pushed to initiate connection by pressing SCAN) to connect.. I tried to ask Kingsong why it was changed - no clear answer received but from the discussion it looks like this was related to the safety of the connection.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 7 hours ago, Lukasz said: As I still wait for my KS16S to arrive in around 10 more days... - can You happy users of KS16S please check how stable the BT connection is on KS16S with Android ? Sorry, I am on iPhone so can not help you with that. I have an old Android phone somewhere, but I don't think it would be the right version of Android for you anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana@szkingsong.com Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 17 hours ago, Dr Mick said: Thanks I did not see any fuse in my box! You are probably right about the numbers being the manufacturing date - because I just checked now and mine is 170510. Given that my order was placed on May 9th, it makes a lot of sense! Calculating just based on voltage and model seems like there are lots of data points collected but not used - but I believe you are probably right! Yes, your order was arranged on May 10,2017, so the number 170510 means the date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana@szkingsong.com Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 20 hours ago, Dr Mick said: My KS16S 840Wh arrived yesterday evening and here are my initial impressions. I ordered this directly from King Song on the 9th and it arrived on the evening of the 29th. So those of you who are impatient might do best to order it from a local supplier instead Apart from the wheel, there’s nothing much in the box; a flimsy manual and of course a charger, but nothing else. However, the wheel itself looks absolutely gorgeous and gives a quite high quality impression. I ordered the rubber black version and it is very nice to the touch. The serial number starts with “KS16 S2 D …” but I do not know if this means it is already somehow a second iteration on the KS16S or if they all have this model number. I took it out for a short 8 km ride yesterday, but today it started raining so apart from a short early morning trip unfortunately I will have to wait until tomorrow to ride more. Luckily, the wheel arrived with 50% charge so I could immediately take it out for a spin. I had no problem whatsoever to just jump on it and go, although the feeling is a bit different from my other wheels. it seems to have a lot of the manoeuvrability from my IPS Zero but is much easier to balance than the Zero it has the same feeling of heft as my Xima Lhotz although it feels marginally less steady due to having a slightly narrower tire When driving, the sides lit up like disco lights. I am happy that the light show can be turned off in the app. Bling is not my thing. There is also a quite loud “Hello King Song” voice when you start it up - and I soon hit the preset 18km/h preset with the voice going “Please decelerate” so loudly that people around me looked up in surprise. Luckily the voice warnings can be switched to beeps in the app, but unfortunately that cannot be done with the welcoming message. I wish they could have a startup sound as an alternative. Speaking of the app, it is much better than the previous apps I have had. I like the fact that the (iPhone) app tells you how much riding distance you have left - but I wonder if that is just a hard-coded conversion of the battery level or if the app actually takes some of the riding stats it collects into the calculation. It should if it doesn’t already!! The riding mode was initially set to “player” mode which compared to the other wheels I have had is very stiff in the sense that it keeps the foot pedals more or less horizontal. I have read that some have trouble with pressing the foot pedals forward, and do not think acceleration is good. I believe that might be because they are riding the EUC in “player” mode. i switched the setting to “cycling” mode instead and then the pedals can be tilted more forward when accelerating. And, importantly, they can be tilted backwards when braking - something which I found a bit challenging in “player” mode. There is also a softer “learning” mode that I have not tried. Since it was getting dark as I was riding, I noticed that the light sensors automatically turned on the headlight - a nice touch! Speaking of nice touches, the retractable handle is really superb. I was getting tired of always having to carry around my wheel and although the Xima was maybe a couple of kilos lighter, it was still a pain. Now I can roll my KingSong with me when going shopping, for example - great!! On the less positive side, there is a very distinct high-pitched whining noise that I never experienced on the IPS Zero or the Xima Lhotz. A bit annoying, I must say - but I understand that this is quite common with newer wheels. Also, the manual is a mess. It would seem such a simple thing to maybe ask someone on this forum to clean up the English a bit. Maybe they could also supply a link to a more up-to-date digital version of it. The “cycling” mode in the app is not even mentioned in the manual, for example. The manual also says that you should “use the inflation tube” when filling air in the tire - there isn’t one and you do not need one. Overall: I was choosing between the King Song 16S and the Gotway ACM, and right now I feel that I really made the right decision. I don’t want to go faster than 35 km/h since I rather cruise and use less protective gear than try to get myself killed speeding to the max. I get the impression that King Song are focusing more on reliability and staying within the limits here - and that is exactly what I want. Also, after just one day, I already no longer understand how I could live without an integrated handle before! I am so happy you like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 57 minutes ago, Diana@szkingsong.com said: I am so happy you like it Like it very much indeed 58 minutes ago, Diana@szkingsong.com said: Yes, your order was arranged on May 10,2017, so the number 170510 means the date. Thanks - good to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 On 5/30/2017 at 4:53 AM, Dr Mick said: <snip> There is also a quite loud “Hello King Song” voice when you start it up - and I soon hit the preset 18km/h preset with the voice going “Please decelerate” so loudly that people around me looked up in surprise. Luckily the voice warnings can be switched to beeps in the app, but unfortunately that cannot be done with the welcoming message. I wish they could have a startup sound as an alternative. <snip> Also, the manual is a mess. It would seem such a simple thing to maybe ask someone on this forum to clean up the English a bit. Maybe they could also supply a link to a more up-to-date digital version of it. The “cycling” mode in the app is not even mentioned in the manual, for example. The manual also says that you should “use the inflation tube” when filling air in the tire - there isn’t one and you do not need one. <snip> Nice review. That "Hello King Song" would annoy me to no end. Haven't people been complaining about this forever, yet they continue to do it. I can't believe that KingSong doesn't understand how it's a nice feature for the first few times you turn it on, but then it gets old and annoying really quick. The manuals are always a mess. But it just occurred to me that they are willing to spend money on an English speaker to record their voice prompts, but are unwilling to spend money on an English writer to craft decent manuals??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: That "Hello King Song" would annoy me to no end. Yes it is annoying. But what is even worse is that when you have to turn the wheel on in front of people, it is directly embarrassing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Nice review. That "Hello King Song" would annoy me to no end. Haven't people been complaining about this forever, yet they continue to do it. I can't believe that KingSong doesn't understand how it's a nice feature for the first few times you turn it on, but then it gets old and annoying really quick. The manuals are always a mess. But it just occurred to me that they are willing to spend money on an English speaker to record their voice prompts, but are unwilling to spend money on an English writer to craft decent manuals??? On my KS18AY, in the King Song app you can select to have beeps replace the verbal speed warnings. Doing that (at least on my KS18AY), also replaces the startup message with a beep. (So I guess that it hasn't been a "forever" complaint that was justified. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 40 minutes ago, abinder3 said: <snip> (So I guess that it hasn't been a "forever" complaint that was justified. ) When I turn on my KS14C Bluetooth I get "Power On". When I connect I get "Device Connected". The complaint is justified. And forever implies wheels older than your KS18AY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAL_GRANADA Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 13 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Nice review. That "Hello King Song" would annoy me to no end. Haven't people been complaining about this forever, yet they continue to do it. I can't believe that KingSong doesn't understand how it's a nice feature for the first few times you turn it on, but then it gets old and annoying really quick. The manuals are always a mess. But it just occurred to me that they are willing to spend money on an English speaker to record their voice prompts, but are unwilling to spend money on an English writer to craft decent manuals??? I asked Diana of Kingsong company about the possibility of turn "Hello Kingsong" off. And she answered that they had canceled "Hello Kingsong". That's a great news This the original post: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 In this recent post of mine you can hear a couple of the annoying voice prompts in my KS14C, and they cannot be turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 On 5/31/2017 at 1:01 PM, Marty Backe said: That "Hello King Song" would annoy me to no end. Haven't people been complaining about this forever, yet they continue to do it. I can't believe that KingSong doesn't understand how it's a nice feature for the first few times you turn it on, but then it gets old and annoying really quick. I see your point that it would seem to get old quick, but aggressive marketing makes money. I would probably record over it somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mick Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 On 2017-06-01 at 9:18 AM, JAL_GRANADA said: I asked Diana of Kingsong company about the possibility of turn "Hello Kingsong" off. And she answered that they had canceled "Hello Kingsong". That's a great news This the original post: Do you mean that King Song will make some sort of update to app or firmware to make it optional? That would be very nice indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dr Mick said: Do you mean that King Song will make some sort of update to app or firmware to make it optional? That would be very nice indeed! It is canceled in my KS16B, when turning off the "voice commands" or whatever they were called in the app, both the welcome message and all warnings change to beeps, and I guess in other older models too. But with the S, even when the warnings change to beeps, the welcome message still plays. Not sure if they've actually even realized this, I doubt they have process of documented test cases that they run through with every build? Likely it's a firmware bug, KS16S seems to use different firmware vs. the rest ... Well, probably all of them have a slight differences in the firmware, like motor parameters, current limits and such, but most models (except KS14D) seem to have change logs and version numbers that run in lock-step, so likely they use the same code base for all the older models, with just some slight parametric changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Not sure if anyone else mentioned it before, but in addition to slightly different pedal design vs. the B, the S's pedals are also slightly angled upwards towards the edges. Size & shape is pretty much the same otherwise. I wouldn't mind them being slightly larger though, maybe if the black plastic part is removed, something could be attached there, like a diamond-plate. Also, I wonder if making them thinner to accommodate the space needed for the plastic part makes them weaker..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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