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Second hand GT16, interesting mix of highs and lows


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1 hour ago, Mono said:

It seems quite unlikely that this would make any notable difference. Given the same air pressure however, a wider tire has less rolling resistance and hence should give the larger range. Having said that though, even the tire construction and the used materials probably have a much larger influence than the size in itself.

You may well be right. I thought in terms of bicycles, where my fat wheel beach-cruiser has much more rolling resistance than a city-bike.

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I've uploaded the sole of my shoe, and compared it with the pedal rubber.

GT16-pedal.thumb.jpg.53a31e11085c1276fdb0a431311e72a2.jpg

As can be seen in the picture, there is a rubber overhang, the inner line is the extent of the metal parts of the pedal. The metal is approximately 20x9cm, the rubber is about 21x10cm. The positioning of the shoe is actually not ideal. In the perfect world, I would place the foot about 1-1.5 cm further out (0.5"). With this position my ankles touch the sides of the case in a place that has a sharp ridge, which is not very comfortable. But if I place it further out, I feel like the shoe almost wobbles on the edge. If I place it further back, my ankles are behind the center-line, and further forward I feel like I'm going to fall off If I lean hard - and would fall if I hit a curb just wrong.

The teal-blue parts are a rough outline of my foot, the blue and red parts the soles that take most of my weight, and the red are the parts that should have support but doesn't.

This story is regrettably true for most western riders, I have size 43EU, which in Sweden is the most common male shoe-size - with mean deviation between 41EU and 45EU. Maximum shoe size for this pedal with ideal foot support, is probably 40EU or maybe 41EU, not more. Can the wheel-makers please stop making pedals smaller than 25x12cm?

This is my second wheel, and both suffer from this problem. It is ridiculous! It wouldn't cost more than a few cents to make the pedal big enough.

I'll have to look into the possibilities of modding the pedals or see if there's a bigger pedal compatible with the fastenings...

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One aspect to explain pedal size is the problem of outleaning the wheel. A short enough pedal prevents the possibility to (easily) outlean the wheel. Pedal length defines the lever with which one can apply torque through the body weight, for which the wheel needs to deliver the counter torque. When climbing steep climbs, you will find yourself pushing on the pedal very close to its front edge. This makes climbing difficult and one may fall off the edge, but it prevents the less expected event of outleaning the wheel.

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46 minutes ago, Mono said:

One aspect to explain pedal size is the problem of outleaning the wheel. A short enough pedal prevents the possibility to (easily) outlean the wheel. Pedal length defines the lever with which one can apply torque through the body weight, for which the wheel needs to deliver the counter torque. When climbing steep climbs, you will find yourself pushing on the pedal very close to its front edge. This makes climbing difficult and one may fall off the edge, but it prevents the less expected event of outleaning the wheel.

A point well taken, but the GT16 has a 2000W nominal motor, outleaning above 20% battery for anyone below 120 kg would require a very dedicated soul... :D

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I used to think that bigger is better (I use 45EU) but after a while you get used to it and dont think about it any more. IMHO sneakers and running shoes are not the best for EUC riding. Try using Vans or something similar and see what you think.

I prefer the long/narrow pedal of the GT16 over the short/wide pedal on my GW 14. They are more comfortable and less likely to snag on curbs and concrete blocks that you pass in the city :)

If you ask 10 EUC riders what the perfect pedal looks like I suspect you will get 10 different answers though...

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9 hours ago, Scatcat said:

A point well taken, but the GT16 has a 2000W nominal motor, outleaning above 20% battery for anyone below 120 kg would require a very dedicated soul... :D

And for those of over 120KG????

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On 5/28/2017 at 11:45 PM, Lorents said:

I guess the most common way to protect your EUC are these protective bumper strips:

https://www.banggood.com/Airwheel-Electric-Unicycle-Bumper-Strip-Wheelbarrow-Protective-Strip-p-957046.html?rmmds=search

Thanks,  I ordered a roll.  After all I have to protect my precious......

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4 minutes ago, HeavyGoing said:

Thanks,  I ordered a roll.  After all I have to protect my precious......

Aaarrghhh... Don't you start with that "precious" line - you're as bad as @Hunka Hunka Burning Love!

War wounds and battle scars only show how much passion you have / enjoyment you get!!!

BTW - That's on you, or your wheel...

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2 hours ago, HeavyGoing said:

The ring dude.  The ring.

No! Stop! You don't want to know what @Hunka Hunka Burning Love's ring fits on!  :blink1:

On a different subject - Good to see a "solid brother" on the forum! You have no idea how tiring these featherweight "I can ride for 200 miles on a single charge" riders can be.  :D

And yes, I said that... let the jealous comments begin...  :P

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On 5/29/2017 at 2:57 PM, Scatcat said:

I thought in terms of bicycles, where my fat wheel beach-cruiser has much more rolling resistance than a city-bike.

In my opinion wide tires have more rolling resistance than narrow tires. However, on EUCs, in my opinion, the comfort and stability of a wider tire is well worth a slight increase in rolling resistance. I continue to marvel that except for IPS Lhotz and the defunct Microworks Geek Wheel, EUC manufacturers choose not to use 2.5 inch tires on 16 and 14 inch wheels.

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On 5/26/2017 at 5:28 AM, Lorents said:

The shell on mine rubs slightly but only when riding on one foot.

To me that's unacceptable and very surprising. They can't give the customer 1/16 inch more clearance so the tire NEVER rubs?? The testing team decided, it only rubs sometimes, that's enough space!

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15 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

In my opinion wide tires have more rolling resistance than narrow tires. 

That is a widespread opinion. However, rolling resistance is mainly caused by the deformation of the tire. Given all other parameters are the same, wider (or larger) tires undergo less deformation, hence they have less rolling resistance. See e.g. 

https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/rolling_resistance and click on "Why do wide tires roll better than narrow ones?"

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4 hours ago, HeavyGoing said:

And for those of over 120KG????

A number taken out of thin air. I weigh in at 92-94kg depending on my level of discipline in not eating humongous amounts of pizza. For me, overleaning 2000W/16" would take some doing. The wheel is rated max 150kg, which I actually doubt is a good idea. Not because of the pedals, axles or motor, but because of the narrow tolerances. If the darn tire touches the shell when I get on, I doubt it will behave well when somebody 40kg heavier does the same.

But in raw engine power... It's like putting a 60kg guy on an 800W EUC and worry about overleaning.

1 hour ago, MaxLinux said:

To me that's unacceptable and very surprising. They can't give the customer 1/16 inch more clearance so the tire NEVER rubs?? The testing team decided, it only rubs sometimes, that's enough space!

It sure is. When it first happened, I contacted the seller to flag that I might have axle-deformation/breakage. But when I studied the problem, I realised the darn shell deforms slightly when you have assymetric pressure on it. That in itself is neither worrying or strange. But when the tolerances can be measured in single digit millimeters at the mud-flap, and about twice that inside the shell, even small deformations have unintended consequences.

My guess... It looked right on paper, they got a sample from casting and tested it too cursory before giving a go-ahead on production.

 

NOTE TO ROCKWHEEL

This is what it should look like, as a minimum...

GT16-pedal-enlarged.jpg.ead3238f88d5a71a23413aeffda3c208.jpg

With just 3-4cm more in length and about 2cm in width, the foot would be much better anchored to the pedal. It would have support both for the heel, the balls of the feet, and the outside.

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55 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

For me, overleaning 2000W/16" would take some doing.

How exactly do you figure this out? If, for example, the maximal current of the wheel is limited (which isn't at all a crazy idea), it may well be possible to outlean the wheel having longer pedals even if it has the nominal power of 2000W. Are you aware that the torque decreases linearly with speed? That means, you can outlean pretty much any wheel if you go fast enough.

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1 hour ago, Mono said:

How exactly do you figure this out? If, for example, the maximal current of the wheel is limited (which isn't at all a crazy idea), it may well be possible to outlean the wheel having longer pedals even if it has the nominal power of 2000W. Are you aware that the torque decreases linearly with speed? That means, you can outlean pretty much any wheel if you go fast enough.

Quite true. I made the mistake of extrapolating my own usage. I seldom go faster than 30kph, and have set the tilt back to 35kph.

But of course you can outlean even a 4000w motor, if you go fast enough for the torque to fall drastically. 

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However, I still fail to see the point in too small pedals. We're supposed to ride these things, preferably without pain and suffering...

The best solution I can think of, is a setting in the app for rider weight. And then a loud warning when you reach about 80% of the speed possible before torque becomes dangerously low for your weight. The margin can be discussed, as it depends on whether you want that 80% on reasonably level ground, or if you want it when climbing.

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7 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

However, I still fail to see the point in too small pedals. We're supposed to ride these things, preferably without pain and suffering...

Think of riding EUCs like wearing high heels...

The more awesome you look, the less comfortable it will be! :huh:

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25 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Think of riding EUCs like wearing high heels...

The more awesome you look, the less comfortable it will be! :huh:

I like watching less comfortable! :P

 

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16 hours ago, Scatcat said:

However, I still fail to see the point in too small pedals. We're supposed to ride these things, preferably without pain and suffering...

Indeed, I also found it quite puzzling why it seems so difficult to provide comfortable and large enough pedals. But then, given that larger pedals could be a safety concern, without pain and suffering gets a different connotation.

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On 5/29/2017 at 2:29 AM, Scatcat said:

Thanks for the link, but the protection I was after this time, was some rubber or vinyl foil to protect the shell from the gripping tape I added.

You can buy rubber spray in the automotive section. It is used for dampening road noise. 

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Larger pedals more likely to hit a road protrusion like sidewalk or branch.  Specially during a slow turn where to rent to tip the wheel to one side. If thevpedals gonlonder, the pedals will have to be raised higher. That might not be good either for stepping out specially on a rush or to catch a fall. 

Also having your toes hanging out is actually useful for tight 180 maneuvering. For example. Slow down tip to one side pivoting or your shoe tips to spin around or make a sharp turn at very slow crawl speed. 

Maybe you need to master the technique. If you want an SUV like ride. Then you need a two wheel Segway machine and not a ECU. Loosing weight would be beneficial in many aspects. You would spend less money on food. Your shoes woul last longer. You could sprint very fast. Your GF or BF might like that also. The airline seats would be more comfortable. Your EUC would have a longer range. You will be able to see you private parts without a mirror. 

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1 hour ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

Larger pedals more likely to hit a road protrusion like sidewalk or branch.  Specially during a slow turn where to rent to tip the wheel to one side. If thevpedals gonlonder, the pedals will have to be raised higher. That might not be good either for stepping out specially on a rush or to catch a fall. 

Also having your toes hanging out is actually useful for tight 180 maneuvering. For example. Slow down tip to one side pivoting or your shoe tips to spin around or make a sharp turn at very slow crawl speed. 

Maybe you need to master the technique. If you want an SUV like ride. Then you need a two wheel Segway machine and not a ECU. Loosing weight would be beneficial in many aspects. You would spend less money on food. Your shoes woul last longer. You could sprint very fast. Your GF or BF might like that also. The airline seats would be more comfortable. Your EUC would have a longer range. You will be able to see you private parts without a mirror. 

I weigh in at 205-210 pounds, not 300 :D

I do see my private parts without a mirror, but I suspect I would even if I added another 100lbs :P (sorry couldn't resist)

But loosing 40 pounds would for sure alleviate the foot pain, that is very true. Not having a flat right foot would of course also do wonders. Having support for the balls of my feet wouldn't hurt a bit though.

I fail to see how pedals that are long enough to support my foot and broad enough but no broader than my feet would worsen the snagging on sidewalks or branches? My feet is that broad, so the bloody sidewalk would be hit anyways, just by my foot rather than by the pedal...

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