Goodman Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I have dropped my Msuper V3S 1300 a few times it's the new matte black finish, it has a few scratches but it's holding up pretty good and unless your really close you can't tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obly Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on getting a Monster. I had another question though. The only performance area where I've seen the Monster get negative comments is in hill climbing. I assume it's because the heavy, wide wheel struggles to generate enough torque to maintain speed? I guess that makes sense considering part of the Monster's big advantage on straightaways is from sheer momentum, which it will lose quickly on inclines. I'm wondering just how bad the Monster's performance on hills really is? I got worried after watching one of the Speedy Feet videos where Ian ends up having to push his Monster up a hill because it was overheating so badly. Later on his friend crashed his Monster badly trying to get up an incline trail (though it's not clear what exactly caused the crash; Ian did get up the incline just fine). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOsJWLDWqXY I don't plan on ascending the Alps or anything, but I would like to use the wheel in mountainous areas on unpaved roads. If it's simply a matter of needing to slow way down and take inclines slow and steady, I can live with that. But if it's liable to overheat and need to be pushed, that's a real problem. Opinions on the Monster vs. hills? Is the Msuper noticeably better at this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Lewis Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Obly said: I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on getting a Monster. I had another question though. The only performance area where I've seen the Monster get negative comments is in hill climbing. I assume it's because the heavy, wide wheel struggles to generate enough torque to maintain speed? I guess that makes sense considering part of the Monster's big advantage on straightaways is from sheer momentum, which it will lose quickly on inclines. I'm wondering just how bad the Monster's performance on hills really is? I got worried after watching one of the Speedy Feet videos where Ian ends up having to push his Monster up a hill because it was overheating so badly. Later on his friend crashed his Monster badly trying to get up an incline trail (though it's not clear what exactly caused the crash; Ian did get up the incline just fine). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOsJWLDWqXY I don't plan on ascending the Alps or anything, but I would like to use the wheel in mountainous areas on unpaved roads. If it's simply a matter of needing to slow way down and take inclines slow and steady, I can live with that. But if it's liable to overheat and need to be pushed, that's a real problem. Opinions on the Monster vs. hills? Is the Msuper noticeably better at this? I don't have a ton of time on the Monster compared to some as I was testing a model for someone else, but while the Msuper definitely felt more capable in general on hills I also never noticed the Monster feeling like it wasn't capable. No crazy off-road stuff though. When you get to those straights thought the Monster really shines. If nothing else because of the tire. It feels closer to an actual road capable vehicle than a sidewalk surfer like most EUC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Lewis Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I would like to add that personally I think the Monster is definitely a luxury item in the sense that you need to have a second wheel. Maybe if you only want a wheel for practical long distance commutes it could be your one and only, but I think for most riders it doesn't fit their regular needs. If you feel like your KS gives you all you want, then the Monster could be for you. If you aren't getting enough from your KS or want a more versatile wheel you should definitely consider the Msuper as it can be used as an all around go-to wheel, while I don't believe the Monster is fit for that. My recommendation is the Msuper in your case! Not to say the Monster isn't an awesome device though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Obly said: I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on getting a Monster. I had another question though. The only performance area where I've seen the Monster get negative comments is in hill climbing. I assume it's because the heavy, wide wheel struggles to generate enough torque to maintain speed? I guess that makes sense considering part of the Monster's big advantage on straightaways is from sheer momentum, which it will lose quickly on inclines. I'm wondering just how bad the Monster's performance on hills really is? I got worried after watching one of the Speedy Feet videos where Ian ends up having to push his Monster up a hill because it was overheating so badly. Later on his friend crashed his Monster badly trying to get up an incline trail (though it's not clear what exactly caused the crash; Ian did get up the incline just fine). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOsJWLDWqXY I don't plan on ascending the Alps or anything, but I would like to use the wheel in mountainous areas on unpaved roads. If it's simply a matter of needing to slow way down and take inclines slow and steady, I can live with that. But if it's liable to overheat and need to be pushed, that's a real problem. Opinions on the Monster vs. hills? Is the Msuper noticeably better at this? I have commented a lot about the Monster and how it's not great for hills. But when I say that I'm referring to steep hills. Like Nob Hill If you're going to be climbing a lot of hills like this, the Monster is not going to be a fun wheel to own for those times. But for your average hills, such as an overpass, it's a great wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 On 5/22/2017 at 11:58 AM, Obly said: I'll look at the ACM more closely, but tbh, going from 14 to 16" doesn't (intuitively) seem like it would improve riding comfort enough to justify the cost of a new wheel. In my opinion, yes, it would! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I wonder how strong a Monster would have to be to climb steep hills reliably and maybe even easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Dingfelder said: I wonder how strong a Monster would have to be to climb steep hills reliably and maybe even easily. Unless I misremember totally: to be equivalent to the 1500W motor in ACM16 it would have to have about 2070W of motor power, to be equivalent of MSuper3 about 1840W. That numbers doesn't take wheel weight into consideration, just wheel-radius. Taking weights and wheel-width into consideration, I'd say you'd have to add some power. Say 2150W to match ACM16 and 1900W to match MSuper3... OTOH, the larger wheel looses torque at a higher speed, all other considerations being equal. So you can go faster on your Monster before you reach the critical speeds where torque falls of rapidly. All of this given of course that the motor radius is the same... and that the setup for torque vs speed is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I have commented a lot about the Monster and how it's not great for hills. But when I say that I'm referring to steep hills. Like Nob Hill If you're going to be climbing a lot of hills like this, the Monster is not going to be a fun wheel to own for those times. But for your average hills, such as an overpass, it's a great wheel. Testing the different ride-modes of the KS16, I noticed that (for me) it's easier to accelerate/climb up hills with the softer modes vs. the stiffest "Player mode". I'm not sure why that is, but I suspect it has to do with the larger "dead zone" around the 0-degree position and allowing the pedals to tilt forward a bit when leaning into it, so it could be that in the stiffest mode, and especially on stronger wheels (power vs. rider weight), it's harder to get enough lean forward when climbing hills for the firmware to react strongly enough. But it's just a theory. Could you try some time if a softer mode helps in hill-climbing with the Monster? I don't even know if it has different ride-modes, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 4 hours ago, esaj said: Testing the different ride-modes of the KS16, I noticed that (for me) it's easier to accelerate/climb up hills with the softer modes vs. the stiffest "Player mode". I'm not sure why that is, but I suspect it has to do with the larger "dead zone" around the 0-degree position and allowing the pedals to tilt forward a bit when leaning into it, so it could be that in the stiffest mode, and especially on stronger wheels (power vs. rider weight), it's harder to get enough lean forward when climbing hills for the firmware to react strongly enough. But it's just a theory. Could you try some time if a softer mode helps in hill-climbing with the Monster? I don't even know if it has different ride-modes, though... Someone else had suggested that awhile back so I did some tests with my Monster on some hills. Unfortunately it seemed to offer little help (maybe at the very beginning). But I do kind of like the softer setting with the Monster when straight line cruising. Gives the sensation of having soft shocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 10 hours ago, Scatcat said: Unless I misremember totally: to be equivalent to the 1500W motor in ACM16 it would have to have about 2070W of motor power, to be equivalent of MSuper3 about 1840W. That numbers doesn't take wheel weight into consideration, just wheel-radius. Taking weights and wheel-width into consideration, I'd say you'd have to add some power. Say 2150W to match ACM16 and 1900W to match MSuper3... OTOH, the larger wheel looses torque at a higher speed, all other considerations being equal. So you can go faster on your Monster before you reach the critical speeds where torque falls of rapidly. All of this given of course that the motor radius is the same... and that the setup for torque vs speed is the same. Interesting! One day we'll probably be riding similar ... I'd like to limit my purchases of wheels period .... I can't afford to become a big collector ... but also would like wheels to keep rapidly improving so that every time I do buy one, something special has happened in the marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dingfelder said: Interesting! One day we'll probably be riding similar ... I'd like to limit my purchases of wheels period .... I can't afford to become a big collector ... but also would like wheels to keep rapidly improving so that every time I do buy one, something special has happened in the marketplace. As I noted it was a simplified calculation. Basically a simple lever. Very little consideration taken to stuff like wheel width, mass, differences in the motor etcetera. Just one set of coils being delta the other wye, would make that calculation face-plant badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Scatcat said: As I noted it was a simplified calculation. Basically a simple lever. Very little consideration taken to stuff like wheel width, mass, differences in the motor etcetera. Just one set of coils being delta the other wye, would make that calculation face-plant badly. I'm not a mathy guy nor do I know anything about electronics. I'm sure I'll be relying on the consensus of other people who know a lot more than I do to establish when a real upgrade has come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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