Jump to content

Advice on buying a EUC


knix

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

A US manufacturer of good wheels operating within all laws rather than Chinese companies with questionable QA etc would be amazing.

Edit: Sorry for derail,

There's always Inventist (Shane Chen's company, apparently Chen was the guy who made the first commercial wheel and dubbed it Solowheel), that's an US company, and probably among the best quality-wise. Wheels are designed in US (although Chen moved to US from China a long time ago AFAIK), but made in China, probably their QA is far more strict than other companies though. The bad news is that the wheels have max speed of 20km/h or below, and battery sizes are limited to around 200Wh. And the Solowheel Xtreme (1800W motor, although that might be maximum output, 16km/h, 196Wh) costs $2295... :P

http://www.solowheel.com/product/xtreme

 

There's two used ones for sale in the Private Sales-section, $2000 per piece  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

That would be Solowheel by Inventist.  The cost for their wheels I think ranges from $1600 and over $2000 USD with not much speed and limited range.  I believe their wheels are engineered in the US, but made in China to their specifications.  You still hear some of them breaking down (eg. Solowheel Extreme).   To have their wheels made in the US, I'd bet the costs would skyrocket even further.  The US produce many excellent products, but the cost to do so can be higher than other nations.  Quality of living, unions, supplies, etc all are higher than China where cheap labor and access to inexpensive goods are located.

I think that quality of items from China really depends on what the demanded specifications are.  Apple has all their iOS devices made in China, and I bet they detail the specifications and requirements of each device in rigid detail.  Still there are defects that occur whenever you mass produce complicated equipment.   Just look at all the GM and Ford recalls as well as Toyota, Mazda, etc.  Problems happen, and that's where you get refurbished items appearing.  I bought a refurbished iPod Touch many years ago which is still good as new.

Smaller Chinese based independents likely try to make products as cheaply as possible although it depends on their target market.  InMotion looks to be a very forward thinking company which seems to value quality and engineering just by judging their product designs.  You can tell who has the team of plastic and electronics engineers on the payroll.  Gotway's strengths obviously are in speed and battery capacity whereas they somewhat lack in shell durability design, but I think they are getting there.  The signs of a good company are the talent behind the design as well as their eagerness to improve their products.  Judging by some of the changes they are actively making, I think they want to keep their status for being the choice of wheel to get for speed demons and long distance riders.  

Hopefully they might contract some engineers to develop improved shell casings with maybe coatings of Polyurea.  They could review and help improve motor and control board design as well.  I have a feeling that they might not have the professionals needed on staff and are mostly going by the seat of their pants in terms of design improvements.  Sometimes that works out fine, but sometimes you end up with melting connectors, control boards that burn out easily, etc.  That's just my take on things.

EDIT:  esaj and I seem to be doing synchronized postings!  :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

To have their wheels made in the US, I'd bet the costs would skyrocket even further.  The US produce many excellent products, but the cost to do so can be higher than other nations.

I personally believe it can be done, and even done competitively. Obviously there will be an enormous % of foreign (IE Chinese content ) value inputs for components but there's no reason why an injection moulding and assembly facility wouldn't add more than a few extra dollars to the final cost, if the volumes are high enough. 

20 minutes ago, esaj said:

always Inventist (Shane Chen's company, apparently Chen was the guy who made the first commercial wheel and dubbed it Solowheel), that's an US company, and probably among the best quality-wise.

There will be an official announcement soon about the Inmotion/SoloWheel partnership. I was skeptical about the accrued benefits that might result of this joint venture, but if the outcome is Inmotion pursuing the Wheel market with more vigor than they have recently done (both the V5F & V8 are over a year old), then that in itself is worth it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Let me see if there's something I can do to intervene & get this sorted for you. Should be fixed by tomorrow...  Sorry, looks like Monday....

If you can't fix this Jason I'm selling my V8 and V5F+ and buying an ACM! :P

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

If you can't fix this Jason I'm selling my V8 and V5F+ and buying an ACM! :P

 

I hadn't even thought to contact Jason, since he sold me the wheel, haha. You guys should have some sway with Inmotion, as you are official dealers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

And F off with this app bullcrap, jerks!

Expecting the customer to use a VPN, disable data and wifi, install old app versions, etc. just to access the settings is ridiculous. And buying a wheel from a company that does this to its customers is ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

I hadn't even thought to contact Jason, since he sold me the wheel, haha. You guys should have some sway with Inmotion, as you are official dealers.

Ohh I had thought that you bought it through other channels, and that's why the app was not working.  Yeah definitely Jason is the man you should talk with first.  Remember number one - check with dealer, number two - post on forums, in that order.  :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Remember number one - check with dealer, number two - post on forums, in that order.  :lol:

I checked with my dealer when I had a problem... He couldn't help me, but sold me a joint instead - after that i didn't really care! :innocent1:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

<Gotway> They could review and help improve motor and control board design as well.  I have a feeling that they might not have the professionals needed on staff and are mostly going by the seat of their pants in terms of design improvements.  Sometimes that works out fine, but sometimes you end up with melting connectors, control boards that burn out easily, etc.  That's just my take on things.

I believe GW executives and engineers are carefully listening to their customer base and making a concerted effort to improve their electrical and mechanical components. For instance GW engineers improved the main boards by increasing the number of mosfets from 6 to 12. The mosfets are positioned on a huge heat sink that is externally cooled but sealed to the shell to prevent moisture infiltration. The motor and wire connectors are continually evolving in a positive direction. My new motor has larger wires and bullet connectors that can handle up to 100 amps each!

When a problem occurred such as @meepmeepmayer's melted motor wire incident GW engineers recognized there was a major problem and immediately improved it by changing the wire connectors along with adding protective sleeves. Now the engineers have implemented another major change by increasing the thickness of the motor wires from 16 awg to 14 awg.

Any company that listens to it's customer base and product representatives such as @Jason McNeil has my support! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hatchet said:

A US manufacturer of good wheels operating within all laws rather than Chinese companies with questionable QA etc would be amazing.

Edit: Sorry for derail,

Isn't Inmotion a Korean company? Not sure if they manufacture their EUCs in the ROK. 

I, for one, appreciate the Chinese manufacturers.  Without them the ewheel landscape would be boring and stagnant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can say what you want about Gotway, they are #1 in respect to "we're actually doing something". Followed by KS, and then... that was it.

So frustrating to see market leaders throwing their position away by doing nothing. Can't believe Inmotion did not have new wheels for more than a year! Together with the apparent refusal to build stronger wheels and offer more options; and geolocking/DRMing their wheels.

Ninebot literally doing nothing for years and f***king over dealers just as an added bonus.

I understand it may be a money issue, but continuous product development (even if it's just in the background) is the last thing a manufacturer should give up on. IPS as well, they could be where GW is now if they had continued where they were with the Lhotz 2 years ago or whenever that was.

And let's not speak about Solowheel, inventing the market only to spectacularly fail in offering anything remotely competitive. Chen may be content "inventing" stuff and having the smallest possible real operation behind that for justification and to keep the lights on, but I shudder thinking where the market would be now if we had to rely on companies like this:barf:

@Rehab1 My issue had nothing to do with the motor connectors (which they knew about and fixed before) unless they have new connectors again that somehow help. They forgot heat sleeves (which I believe were already standard), but mainly the cables were just too weak for the extreme currents I produced going up that steep hill for minutes - so it was a general design flaw that can appear in a rare extreme situation, and apparently it made them use thicker wiring to reduce the probability of that happening even more.

I think they are (with the current models) going a strictly reactive course - something happens for whatever reason, they do something so it won't happen again. It's still no proper up-front professional design, but hopefully the next generation of GWs will surprise us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

IPS as well, they could be where GW is now if they had continued where they were with the Lhotz 2 years ago or whenever that was.

I am an IPS fan, as many here know. I love the 121 and 191 (Lhotz) and ride one or the other 7 days per week. These designs are rock solid and an excellent choice if you don't need a mega-size battery. With the 340 wh battery in both of these models, I can ride 2 hours with a comfortable margin of remaining battery power. The shells are also very durably built. Having had 3 121s, 2 121+s, and 2 191s with ZERO PROBLEMS, I would not hesitate to buy one of these the next time I need a wheel.

However, I have been wondering what IPS would do next. I was surprised and somewhat disappointed by the announcement of the new compact 14 inch wheel. Apparently they are reluctant to go down the Gotway / KS path of larger, more powerful wheels. I think that is the area of growth in this market. I don't think the 14-inch market is growing much.

 Some interesting discussion of the new IPS wheel:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

Having had 3 121s, 2 121+s, and 2 191s with ZERO PROBLEMS, I would not hesitate to buy one of these the next time I need a wheel.

"I've had the same wheel forever... I've replaced the tyre three times, the wheel itself twice, and I'm on to my fourth shell. But this wheel just seems to last forever!"  :D

I love my Lhotz too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

I am an IPS fan, as many here know. I love the 121 and 191 (Lhotz) and ride one or the other 7 days per week. These designs are rock solid and an excellent choice if you don't need a mega-size battery. With the 340 wh battery in both of these models, I can ride 2 hours with a comfortable margin of remaining battery power. The shells are also very durably built. Having had 3 121s, 2 121+s, and 2 191s with ZERO PROBLEMS, I would not hesitate to buy one of these the next time I need a wheel.

However, I have been wondering what IPS would do next. I was surprised and somewhat disappointed by the announcement of the new compact 14 inch wheel. Apparently they are reluctant to go down the Gotway / KS path of larger, more powerful wheels. I think that is the area of growth in this market. I don't think the 14-inch market is growing much.

 Some interesting discussion of the new IPS wheel:

 

Max, can you control the beeping on your Lhotz? I heard someone say the newer iterations of the Lhotz/app allow that.

 

I.e. can you change it from beeping at 23kph to something else??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Paddylaz said:

Max, can you control the beeping on your Lhotz? I heard someone say the newer iterations of the Lhotz/app allow that.

 

I.e. can you change it from beeping at 23kph to something else??

No, at least not in the version of the app I am using. There is not a setting for the speeds when beeping should occur. However (no one else has reported this that I am aware of), my Lhotz NEVER beeps except in one situation: standing upright and motionless for approximately 2 minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Any company that listens to it's customer base and product representatives such as @Jason McNeil has my support! 

You give me too much credit. All I did was glance at the 14 page thread & thought "I really don't want to have to deal with this!"

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

mainly the cables were just too weak for the extreme currents I produced going up that steep hill for minutes - so it was a general design flaw that can appear in a rare extreme situation

But here's the dilemma for GW: the quest for unlimited power is a perpetual treadmill. Uprate the CB, then you get the occasional motor failure; throw in a 1500W motor, now thicker wires wouldn't hurt; next, who knows....

I agree that they need to get out of the mindset of nickel-and-dimming components, doubt there would be many Customers who begrudge spending an extra $50 on a high end GW if they knew everything in the Wheel was massively over-engineered.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, massive overengineering, that sums it up pretty good what we want. As well as them looking at EVERY component and asking "what if this fails, an how can it fail?".

Also, warnings. The wheel should constantly monitor itself and warn/stop the rider if something is wrong or beyond safety margins.

Didn't realize my problem scared so many people in the industry (well, you)B) Idea: next time we want something from Gotway, we can fake an issue here and voila, improvement coming:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

I agree that they need to get out of the mindset of nickel-and-dimming components, doubt there would be many Customers who begrudge spending an extra $50 on a high end GW if they knew everything in the Wheel was massively over-engineered.  

Something expensive but great can be wonderful and satisfying to own.  But an expensive piece of junk is just ridiculous and can make one look the fool.  

No one wants to show that off.  Or think it of himself.  

Agreed, anyone spending on a premium product will likely be quick to spend more to assure that it truly is a premium product.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yep, massive overengineering, that sums it up pretty good what we want. As well as them looking at EVERY component and asking "what if this fails, an how can it fail?".

Also, warnings. The wheel should constantly monitor itself and warn/stop the rider if something is wrong or beyond safety margins.

Didn't realize my problem scared so many people in the industry (well, you)B) Idea: next time we want something from Gotway, we can fake an issue here and voila, improvement coming:D

Some of the oversights EUC manufacturers have when designing their wheels does bother me as well. 

My job of working in the military defense industry probably causes me to be more bothered by some of the designing of the EUCs.  In order to stay competitive, we have to over engineer our products by a large margin. We subject our products to conditions that they will never see in real life.  Maybe the EUC manufacturers should do something similar, but not to the extent we do.  Example; instead of testing the EUCs with someone that barely weighs 145 lbs, test it with a total weight mass that exceeds what it's rated for.

(just my thoughts though.)

 

Allen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, abinder3 said:

Example; instead of testing the EUCs with someone that barely weighs 145 lbs, test it with a total weight mass that exceeds what it's rated for.

Fantastic - I'm a "total weight mass that exceeds what it's rated for."

Attention all EUC manufacturers: please PM me for delivery details, and I will happily test your wheels! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, abinder3 said:

Some of the oversights EUC manufacturers have when designing their wheels does bother me as well. 

My job of working in the military defense industry probably causes me to be more bothered by some of the designing of the EUCs.  In order to stay competitive, we have to over engineer our products by a large margin. We subject our products to conditions that they will never see in real life.  Maybe the EUC manufacturers should do something similar, but not to the extent we do.  Example; instead of testing the EUCs with someone that barely weighs 145 lbs, test it with a total weight mass that exceeds what it's rated for.

(just my thoughts though.)

 

Allen

Some of the ECU brands are complete engineering frauds. It's ridiculous what I see. They even show their highly incompetent skill in videos. Lol. Smaking crimp connectors with a press and then soldering afterward, puting silicon caulk  to retain screws, puting caulk on heat Sinks, bending pwm power cables at sharp angles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, abinder3 said:

Some of the oversights EUC manufacturers have when designing their wheels does bother me as well. 

My job of working in the military defense industry probably causes me to be more bothered by some of the designing of the EUCs.  In order to stay competitive, we have to over engineer our products by a large margin. We subject our products to conditions that they will never see in real life.  Maybe the EUC manufacturers should do something similar, but not to the extent we do.  Example; instead of testing the EUCs with someone that barely weighs 145 lbs, test it with a total weight mass that exceeds what it's rated for.

(just my thoughts though.)

 

Allen

I strongly agree with that example!  Even if that's the average weight of a man in Southern China (I have no idea), in America even our women on average weigh more than that, and our men weigh almost a third more, with a great many who are heavier.  Testing only with the weight equivalent of a 9th grade boy doesn't tell Americans much about whether a wheel will satisfy or how well it will hold up under ordinary use.

Ideally the thinking among manufacturers would extend to the design and marketing stage, so that the average American wouldn't have only a small selection of wheels to choose from, or be led into a purchase he regrets and would not recommend to others.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Dingfelder said:

I strongly agree with that example!  Even if that's the average weight of a man in Southern China (I have no idea), in America even our women on average weigh more than that, and our men weigh almost a third more, with a great many who are heavier.  Testing only with the weight equivalent of a 9th grade boy doesn't tell Americans much about whether a wheel will satisfy or how well it will hold up under ordinary use.

Ideally the thinking among manufacturers would extend to the design and marketing stage, so that the average American wouldn't have only a small selection of wheels to choose from, or be led into a purchase he regrets and would not recommend to others.  

Some day you will realize that the American market is not that important anymore. 

USA        300,000,000

CHINA 1,300,000,000

INDIA.  1,2000,000,000

these countries have people jammed packed in super cities. Larger than 10,000,000 each.  This supports infrastructure of trains and small moped vehicles favorable for EUC. 

THE USA is all spread out all over the place because we want or big yards and SUV instead of EUC. We like to show our exsuverance and EUC are just toys for us. Even bus or trains don't work in the USA. They are riden by the poor. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're right that it's nowhere near as important as it used to be.  But it is still an enormous and very affluent market; in fact the biggest market in the world.  We spend more on our pets than people in some countries spend on their parents or children.  

America is hardly the only place in the world where most men are over 145 pounds, either.

And the U.S. has plenty of big cities too.  

Re buses ridden mostly by the poor, I agree  They are a third-rate transportation option at best.  

But some of our subway and train systems are excellent.  I lived in Los Angeles when the subways first came in and wound up taking them to work for years.  They were new, kept clean, and for a while extremely well policed.  In Southern California, people sometimes live hours from where they work, so using a train or train and subway mixed together to go to work could save 20,000 miles a year or more on your car, cut your insurance costs way back, and save you hours of time per day.  That's a huge potential economic boost and quality of life issue.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...