Notaguru Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I'm a 79 year old professor, about to acquire a second-hand E+. 60 years ago I rode a unicycle (pedal-powered), and hope some of those ancient skills will enable me to adapt to this new device. I need some sort of portable personal transporter because my knees don't support walking (osteoarthritis hates impact), though I'm otherwise quite fit. My goal is to efficiently traverse the very large campus on which I still teach. A few questions of the resident gurus... Price with training wheels is about $300 - does that make sense? Is the E+ UL-2272? Campus requires it! When I inspect the unit, what should I look for regarding functionality/safety? Remember, I won't be able to ride/test it until I adapt/learn, which will take some time. Is there a way to estimate the condition of the batteries? Is it powered by a simple array of replaceable 18650 cells? Do the training wheels accelerate the learning process, or improve safety? I have a helmet - do I also need bodybubblewrap or ??? Will initial training be enhanced by a shopping cart? If I fail to adapt, will I have a problem finding a buyer in that price range? I'll be grateful for comments/suggestions, other than "Don't do it, you idiot!" Thanks, gurus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 In my opinion you should forget the training wheels. The generally held opinion is that they don't really help at all. Having ridden a unicycle in the past you will probably pick up the basics within an hour or even less, they really are much easier to ride than a regular unicycle, but be careful with your knee problems as running off the first few low speed stumbles/mistakes could be a problem. Initial learning is best enhanced by a colleague, preferably two trotting along each side of you for a little support via your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Congratulations and my admiration to you for wanting to venture into this slightly dangerous sport! I'm no guru, but I might be able to offer some input. I would doubt the Ninebot One E+ has UL-2272 certification. I'm not sure that any of these wheels have it as UL certification can cost tens of thousands of dollars so many Chinese companies likely do not pursue it. Does anyone know if Solowheel is UL certified? That might be an unfortunate roadblock for you. I do know some hoverboards are now UL certified so that might be a possible alternative depending on how rough the terrain is that you need to cover. They aren't the best going over uneven spots outdoors. If you are in a snowy area in winter I wouldn't recommend riding either a EUC or hoverboard, but some people are able to. I would ask the seller to demonstrate that it works well by having them ride it. Try turning it on and see if it balances forwards and backwards. On the Ninebot app you can have them show you the total mileage ridden. Check for visual damage. Make sure the handle is sound and functional. Batteries can be an unknown. The seller would be able to tell you how far he can go on a full charge which for a good pack and 167 lbs over varied terrain can be about 22 km. Packs seems to last a couple of years or more? The battery pack is a bit of a complicated group of cells with ends spot welded together with nickel strips so replacing single cells is not within the capabilities of most people. Some have done it though. I would recommend all protection every time you ride. It's always that one time or the one spot that isn't protected where injury occurs. At 79 I would want to minimize injuries as healing is not as fast as 60 years ago. Buyers might be hard to find or not depending on your location and asking price. People still seem to be wanting to buy these Ninebots up even though they aren't the latest and greatest. BTW what courses do you teach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudust Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I think only Ninebot by Segway One S1 is UL certified. Training wheels won't help you learn. It will actually delay your learning curve and it will make turning very difficult. Even though One E+ is not UL certified, it is one of the most reliable EUC in the market. Personally, I would recommend to use it as the first wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Notaguru said: I'm a 79 year old professor, about to acquire a second-hand E+. 60 years ago I rode a unicycle (pedal-powered), and hope some of those ancient skills will enable me to adapt to this new device. I need some sort of portable personal transporter because my knees don't support walking (osteoarthritis hates impact), though I'm otherwise quite fit. My goal is to efficiently traverse the very large campus on which I still teach. A few questions of the resident gurus... Price with training wheels is about $300 - does that make sense? The price is very nice - new ones sold starting from ~1000 EUR, actually found them being sold ~899EUR, some shops offered them inbetween to clear their stocks for ~500-600 USD. Quote Is the E+ UL-2272? Campus requires it! It is definitely not. Also not IP65 (as they claimed in the beginning). Maybe the solowheels, as @Hunka Hunka Burning Lovementioned. But solowheels are imho overpriced and underpowered... Imho the last releases Solowheel is do old to have some UL-2272 certificate, or did i miss one? Another chance for UL-2272 could be the newer Ninebot S2 and the Inmotion EWheels. According to @Jason McNeil comparison at https://www.ewheels.com/comparing-segway-ninebot-s1-inmotion-v5f-feature-review/ they have the certificate. Maybe he can approve this? Quote When I inspect the unit, what should I look for regarding functionality/safety? Remember, I won't be able to ride/test it until I adapt/learn, which will take some time. The Ninebot One E+ has imho a quite accurate total milage shown in the app which cannot be reset? Somewhere above 1000-2000 km chances rise that the wheel could be "overused" Quote Is there a way to estimate the condition of the batteries? Easily just by the total milage. To really test them you would need something like the charge doctor from @hobby16 (http://hobby16.neowp.fr/charge-doctor-features/). With such a device you can determine how much charge the battery takes while charging it from as empty as possible to full... Quote Is it powered by a simple array of replaceable 18650 cells? As @Hunka Hunka Burning Lovealready stated: The batteries are an array of 18650 cells, but not easy replaceable - they are normally spot welded and messing around with the single cells can lead to quite nasty incidents if one is not experienced. Quote Do the training wheels accelerate the learning process, or improve safety? I never used them, but from what is written here they tend to slow down/inhibit the learning process and decrease safety! Quote I have a helmet - do I also need bodybubblewrap or ??? Wrist, elbow and knee guards are beside the helmet highly recommanded! Especially since unfortionately normal, untrained people tend to land on their knees and wrists once the fall forward ;( So maybe it's not the best idea for you to start driving an EUC with your knee probs? Also you should be prepared to jump off and run a bit, especially in the beginning. Also every unevennes/bump in the road should be compensated by bending the knees. But for just driving on even roads/side-ways on your campus riding an EUC could be a big relief for your knees. Quote Will initial training be enhanced by a shopping cart? Imho here where some positive reports about starting to learn driving with a shopping cart. For me the most difficult thing to learn was getting on the EUC - so i started always near some wall/pole to mount the EUC and also stop near something to unmount the EUC. For me it was also helpfull to split the training sessions in 15-20 minutes units once, twice a day and after one week i dared to drive in public... But since you already mastered pedal powered unicycles you have good chances that you just hop on the wheel and drive - there are many videos around about unicycle riders which drive with an EUC instantly! Quote If I fail to adapt, will I have a problem finding a buyer in that price range? If the Ninebot One E+ and the batteries are in orderly condition you should have no problem to sell it again at USD 300. Imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, cloudust said: I think only Ninebot by Segway One S1 is UL certified. Training wheels won't help you learn. It will actually delay your learning curve and it will make turning very difficult. Even though One E+ is not UL certified, it is one of the most reliable EUC in the market. Personally, I would recommend to use it as the first wheel. MiniPro and S1, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
affe Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 How about Ninebot Mini Pro? It might actually be better suited for the use you're considering and it is UL certificed for sure. I've been riding a Mini Pro and just purchased an EUC (Inmotion V8). However I'm still going to keep the Mini Pro as it has its uses. Anyhow, I tip my hat to you sir for considering a self-balancing vehicle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Notaguru said: Price with training wheels is about $300 - does that make sense? Sounds good to me, although the training wheels are pretty useless (used mine, the training wheels that is, for maybe 10-15 minutes before taking them off, useless in retrospect...) Quote Is the E+ UL-2272? Campus requires it! No idea Quote When I inspect the unit, what should I look for regarding functionality/safety? Remember, I won't be able to ride/test it until I adapt/learn, which will take some time. Ask the seller to ride it around while you watch, although you can't tell everything from that, but at least it should then be a working unit. Quote Is there a way to estimate the condition of the batteries? If you have the equipment, like a charger / PSU that can show you the amount of watt- or milliamphours going into / out of the batteries, then you could check how much charge they still hold (first discharging the battery to empty and then charging it to full while measuring the milliamp- or watthours). E+ should have something like 320Wh / 5750mAh, although the maximum charge capacity will drop with wear. Other than that, no easy ways I can think of right now... range testing? But then you'd need to know how far a brand new battery set can take you to have a point of reference. Quote Is it powered by a simple array of replaceable 18650 cells? If memory serves, Ninebot E+s use 15S2P -batterypacks, that's 15 cells in Series per set and 2 sets in Parallel. Nominal voltage around 55.5V (3.7V * 15 cells in series), maximum around 63V (4.2V * 15 cells) when fully charged. Relatively "simple", there's the cells and also a BMS, Battery Management System -board inside the packs that monitors voltage/current/cell voltages inside the pack, but not easy to replace single cells, unless you have something like a battery spot welder... Quote Do the training wheels accelerate the learning process, or improve safety? In my limited experience, neither @Gimlet's idea of having other people help you in the start (walking/jogging beside you to give support) probably helps. Quote I have a helmet - do I also need bodybubblewrap or ??? Wrist guards and elbow/kneepads might not be a bad idea either. You can bubblewrap the wheel if you're worried of the shells damaging during falls (at the beginning, the wheel will probably tumble to it's side quite often). Quote Will initial training be enhanced by a shopping cart? Never tried it myself, maybe? Quote If I fail to adapt, will I have a problem finding a buyer in that price range? Depending on where you live, if there's demand for these things and it's fully functional unit and the battery's still good, getting it sold at that price shouldn't be too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Congratulations and my admiration to you for wanting to venture into this slightly dangerous sport! I applaud you as well! Great advice from my peers! You will adapt to riding your wheel but it takes time! There was a post last year, can't find it at the moment, relating to balance exercises. One exercise was standing on one foot while closing your eyes. In any event keep us posted and share a video of your progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 8 hours ago, Notaguru said: I'm a 79 year old professor, It always amuses me that most EUC instructions say something like: "Not to be used by persons under 10 or over 60 years old". Good on you for giving it a go at 79 ;-) I learned at 60 and had never ridden a unicycle (although I had skied and windsurfed when younger) it took me a couple of days of riding up and down a narrow hallway so as to use the walls for support before plucking up the courage to venture out in a park using lampposts, trees, etc to help get me balanced on the wheel before moving off. After about a week I was comfortable riding on sidewalks but using posts etc to help me get started. It took more than a few weeks before I could consistently just hop on and go without some support, however that was mostly because where I live there is so much street furniture that I didn't need to. By far the most useful aid in public is a strap to secure the wheel whilst riding it - not pulled tight, that ruins your balance - but held loosely to stop the wheel running away from you if you fall off and hurting you or someone else or damaging (say) a parked car. Headgear, goes without saying (I hope) but the single most important safety gear I've found is wrist guards. Not only are reactions not as quick as you get older, so you will probably be unable to stop yourself putting your hands out if you fall but I found, the hard way, that a sprained wrist takes months to heal at my age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I, like you, have knee problems. I have torn Meniscus in both knees. If I ride distances, I need to wear knee braces or it actually makes my knees hurt worse. I, also like you, rode a pedal unicycle when I was 13 years old but have not been on one since. I took my first EUC to Sam's Club and held onto a shopping cart rack in the parking lot after they closed and rode around it one time. By the time I got back to the beginning, I had it and took off. I rode about 600 ft that night. The next day I took to a local bike path of about 5 miles in length. I rode the whole distance without stopping one time because I did not know how to stop!!! OOPS! I took the whole ride back practicing starting and stopping because I quickly realized it was super important around people and eventually cars. After 3 days of riding my generic wheel, I went and bought a NineBot E+ and LOVED it! It's a very capable wheel. Your price is very good! I've now moved up to a GotWay MSuper and love it even more. Others have answered the other questions well, so I'll avoid those. But I will say that I also own a NineBot Mini Pro, and I think it is MUCH better suited for what you want to do. The amount of control on the Mini Pro is a lot easier to use. You can stop and start without fear of falling off, and around walking traffic, it's a breeze. The Mini Pro is NOTHING like the Hover Boards, and I've owned a few of those too, so I know. The Mini Pro traverses obstacles very well. It can go up and down wheel chair ramps easily, across grass and gravel, and even go over bumps quite well, something the hoverboards can NOT do well. I've even taken my Mini Pro off road and it does well there too since it has a computer that helps keep it straight and level when riding over bumps and angles. The NineBot E+ is also able to do all these things, but it has a much larger learning curve and even when you are very good, you still fall off occasionally. Running around foot traffic on the NineBot E+ is very possible, but not until you are comfortable riding 1 mph or less, and that can take some time. The other thing is that a Campus is likely to be more willing to allow you to cruise around on the Mini Pro over the E+. Especially while you are learning. While learning, many people have quite a few falls and mishaps, and it is perceived as being more dangerous because it simply looks that way. The Mini Pro is super easy to learn, 5 mins tops, and it's SUPER stable. Good luck in whatever you get. Either way, I hope you take up EUC also. It is probably better suited for off campus riding though, which you will LOVE!!! Off Campus, it runs circles around the Mini Pro. On the Mini Pro, I've gone 15 miles on a charge at around 10-12 mph, so it's still capable, but the E+ can do it so much easier when you know how to ride it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notaguru Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 I'm really grateful for these constructive comments. My decision is to buy the E+. Wearing my helmet plus wrist protectors I will give it a try. If it "works" for me, great. If not, I'll put it on the market and buy a Minipro or a donkey. ANSWERS S Calif, so no snow and smooth roads. I teach electrical engineering (though I'm obsolete) and entrepreneurship. Replacing solder-tabbed 18650 cells would be easy; encouraging because all such batteries begin with a limit to life. Again - THANKS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpong Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 @Notaguru I have almost 2,600 Miles on my E+. It is a quality product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetpapi Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 15 hours ago, Notaguru said: I'm a 79 year old professor, about to acquire a second-hand E+ I'm hoping 79 is not a typo! Hats off to you to consider EUC. All gurus answered your questions. I sold my Ninebot One E+ for about $500 very recently. If you get a $300 Ninbot that will be a GOOD deal. Considering the age I would suggest Mini PRO but you already made your mind. I hope your students also buy EUCs and start a trend in your university. Please wear all the gear all the time. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Notaguru said: I'm really grateful for these constructive comments. My decision is to buy the E+. Wearing my helmet plus wrist protectors I will give it a try. If it "works" for me, great. If not, I'll put it on the market and buy a Minipro or a donkey. ANSWERS S Calif, so no snow and smooth roads. I teach electrical engineering (though I'm obsolete) and entrepreneurship. Replacing solder-tabbed 18650 cells would be easy; encouraging because all such batteries begin with a limit to life. Again - THANKS!! Obsolete? Pishaw! Times may change, but never think you're obsolete. Your students and peers are going to be amazed once you get riding the Ninebot. Many people even would not dare try it let alone attempt it at your age. Would anyone consider Fred Astaire's dancing abilities obsolete? The classic knowledge, skill, and principles are where we came from. I don't think the fundamentals of sound knowledge and experience can ever be considered obsolete. They got us to where we are today, and although some may forgo mindful engineering principles to save a buck or two, they end up realizing sooner or later that there is wisdom and value in following proper design elements and principles. Welcome to the forums, and safe riding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 @Planetpapi I applaud your resiliency. But I ask you to reconsider. Hip fractures are not to be taken lightly and very possible at your age. It's just life. Also a new ninebot is about the same considering the price. The batteries is key. How old and hoe many miles. They only last so long and battery failure is a 100% fall. A new NinebotS1 cost a little more but is current technology. See pictures attached. I would advice using the scooter in the picture. Much safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 There are some pretty spry septuagenarians out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 11 hours ago, Notaguru said: I'm really grateful for these constructive comments. My decision is to buy the E+. Wearing my helmet plus wrist protectors I will give it a try. If it "works" for me, great. If not, I'll put it on the market and buy a Minipro or a donkey. ANSWERS S Calif, so no snow and smooth roads. I teach electrical engineering (though I'm obsolete) and entrepreneurship. Replacing solder-tabbed 18650 cells would be easy; encouraging because all such batteries begin with a limit to life. Again - THANKS!! Welcome to the forums!It's good to have another so.Cali rider.I was riding around so. Cal for about a year before other local riders started to show up here in the forums.Now we have some good group rides and even the occasional adventure like "Conquering Cogswell 2017".(See Cogswell Dam ride 4/22/17) The E+ is a good choice for a beginner wheel.Hopefully we can meetup sometime for a group ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudust Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 amazon is offering pretty good deals on Ninebot by segway products, One S1 and miniPRO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: There are some pretty spry septuagenarians out there. Simply awesome! Such a motivation to others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 My Grandfather rode Motorcycles till he was 90. I'm hoping to do the same, and hopefully the EUC too, but I may need to opt for the safer ride of a Motorcycle. Sounds strange saying that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 13 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: @Planetpapi I applaud your resiliency. But I ask you to reconsider. Hip fractures are not to be taken lightly and very possible at your age. It's just life. Also a new ninebot is about the same considering the price. The batteries is key. How old and hoe many miles. They only last so long and battery failure is a 100% fall. A new NinebotS1 cost a little more but is current technology. See pictures attached. I would advice using the scooter in the picture. Much safer. If you are set on the UNICYCLE BUY THE NEW ONE. $300 used and needing a new battery $200 is basically the price of a new one. @Notaguru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarZin Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 As others are stating, please take many many precautions. If you don't think you could stand to slide across concrete at 12 MPH (doesnt sound like much, but it feels a lot worse), then seriously consider a safer riding platform. You WILL fall. It is only a matter of time, especially if you are just starting. I have about 2,000 miles on electric unicycles. I have had 2 baddish falls (no fractures, but loss of a lot of skin and a good amount of blood). You should look like you are suiting up to ride a motorcycle if you are riding this will full protection. Ride slower. Do not push the unit. Falls generally happen when you topple the gyro (exceed its limitations to hold you up). These situations happen when you accelerate too fast, you are riding at a higher speed and don't react quickly enough, or when you have a lower battery and the unit doesn't perform the same. Never ride lower than 30% with your ninebot. Keep it charged. Keep your head on a swivel. No one pays attention to their surrounding anymore. You must, and you have to know what pedestrians are going to do before they do it. I also work on a large campus. The good news is that Ninebot makes some of the highest quality wheels out there. It is my hope that I will have the health and spirit to do what you are doing at 79 years old. Good luck and please be extremely careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 On 26/04/2017 at 1:45 AM, Carlos E Rodriguez said: Hip fractures are not to be taken lightly and very possible at your age. It's just life. I must confess the one thing that slightly haunts me when I ride now is the old guy I met in hospital years ago with a cracked hip having fallen off a chair changing a lightbulb. It does worry me how a seemingly minor injury can affect an older person. 1976 I had a bad motorbike accident that had me in an out of hospital for a year. This old guy came in, really just for bed rest, as he had only cracked his hip, it didn't need setting, traction etc. He told the most amazing stories of fighting in the First World War (so I guess that made him at least 76 years old) and all of us who were mobile enough would gather around his bed to listen to them. However he would always end them with " I've had a good innings, but I've had enough now." A nurse confided in me that she had seen this before and she was convinced he would die. I couldn't believe it, he was animated and seemed in generally good health but, sure enough, within a week he was dead. I still wonder if it was the result of shock from the injury (which maybe would have been better treated these days?) or whether he really did will himself to death at a time of his choosing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 22 hours ago, SuperSport said: My Grandfather rode Motorcycles till he was 90. I'm hoping to do the same, and hopefully the EUC too, but I may need to opt for the safer ride of a Motorcycle. Sounds strange saying that... Me as well....I hope! I own a Harley Trike so it is both safe and allows me to take trips with my wheel stored in the luggage compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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