NEW Gotway Monster 100V

[Duf]

On 4/15/2017 at 2:29 PM, Marty Backe said:

Wow. Exciting news. I wonder what the used market is like for Monsters, because I'd have to sell mine to buy this one.

Since I've been contemplating upgrading my MSuper V3 to the V3s+ model, now I suspect that they'll be coming out with a 100v version of that. This is what Gotway did with the ACM. First they upgraded the MSuper and then flowed that upgrade to the ACM.

I know someone that might be interested in your Monster.

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

Just to rehash the voltage thing. Is essence it is only helpful to maintain a responsive motor at high rpm. Otherwise the 67 volts can produce plenty of power. 

I had a random thought so don't trash me.  I almost think it is better to put more parallel cell packs to increase the amounts of amps available before BMS cuts off. But that takes more space. Or put cells that can put out higher amps nominal.  Say right now assuming the current cell can only safely put 5 amps continuously then most Gotway are 4P so that mean 4x5amps is 20 amps. I know our cells do better than that. But let's say we put cells that can do 15 amps. Then 15 x 4P is 60amps sustain. So the concept is that high drain batteries would make things better but I am sure they cost a fortune. 

The other thought is that the motor makers can use stronger magnets thus making the wheel more powerful by only putting stronger magnets. 

[Pingouin]

Hi guys !

New info, the Gotway Monster 100V will be available in 1845Wh (don't know if there will be another version), so it's true it won't be 1600Wh like before, Kebye didn't announce it directly to distributors.

Maybe this will be a good balance the 1600Wh & 2400Wh

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Stupid battery size, who wants smaller batteries when you can have 2400? How many people bought 1600 vs 2400? Everyone seems to go for 2400 if you're already paying 3000  moneys for a wheel.

Could someone knowledgable do the (probable) battery math on the 1854 Wh? 24S6P gives me 1865 Wh (starting at 1554 Wh which I believe is the "1600" 20S6P size) so is that it? An example computation would be really appreciated! (I'd like to know how to do these in general)

[Marty Backe]

Yeah, that's crazy if they only offer the one (smaller) size. I certainly would not buy it.

They may try and say that the 100v system will offer more range, but that's what Inmotion said about the V8 and it still has a lousy range.

[Pingouin]

45 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Stupid battery size, who wants smaller batteries when you can have 2400? How many people bought 1600 vs 2400? Everyone seems to go for 2400 if you're already paying 3000  moneys for a wheel.

Could someone knowledgable do the (probable) battery math on the 1854 Wh? 24S6P gives me 1865 Wh (starting at 1554 Wh which I believe is the "1600" 20S6P size) so is that it? An example computation would be really appreciated! (I'd like to know how to do these in general)

Hi, I agree with you about the battery size, but for some people it might be a good thing (talking about the 1600Wh). I personnaly went for the 1600Wh, because I can get 80-90km out of it (with 20% left) and I don't need more range, and also because the weight difference matters for a light person like me (60kg), but if I weight more than 75kg then I would surely would have picked the 2400Wh instead.

I don't know if Gotway will have a higher Wh 100V model, I'll ask and let you know

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

Hi, I agree with you about the battery size, but for some people it might be a good thing (talking about the 1600Wh). I personnaly went for the 1600Wh, because I can get 80-90km out of it (with 20% left) and I don't need more range, and also because the weight difference matters for a light person like me (60kg), but if I weight more than 75kg then I would surely would have picked the 2400Wh instead.

I don't know if Gotway will have a higher Wh 100V model, I'll ask and let you know

Thanks.

My riding weight is ~80kg and I can get 105km before I have to start worrying about the battery. Most of the time that has been enough.But there are some rides that I now take that would not be possible with less than 2000wh.

There's space in my Monster for more batteries, so maybe it's a weight issue. My Monster weighs ~30kg. It's already very heavy - I don't really care if it weighs another 5kg

[esaj]

Split the battery-stuff here:   

 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

A bit of speculation.

As @esaj found out in the other thread, it's likely 144 of the expensive 3500 mAh cells (the same they use in the 1600Wh ACMs and msupers V3).

We know the one side of the monster fits the mainboard and 60 cells easily, the other side 120 cells with not so much space left.

So looks like they got 72 instead of 60 cells into the board side (which seems possible, there's quite a bit of empty space in the 84V monster next to the board). Probably they only got one of the 72 cell packs into the other side (I don't think you could cram the extra 24 cells from 2 packs in the remaining space).

So this means there might be no bigger battery version of the 100V monster. [But they could still make a ~1600Wh alternative if they use the cheaper 2.9 mAh cells instead.]

--

Alternatively, if they modify the shell so two 72 packs fit into the side, they could use the cheaper cells to get a ~2300Wh version (the og big monster is ~2330), or the more expensive cells for ~2800Wh.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

A bit of speculation.

As @esaj found out in the other thread, it's likely 144 of the expensive 3500 mAh cells (the same they use in the 1600Wh ACMs and msupers V3).

We know the one side of the monster fits the mainboard and 60 cells easily, the other side 120 cells with not so much space left.

So looks like they got 72 instead of 60 cells into the board side (which seems possible, there's quite a bit of empty space in the 84V monster next to the board). Probably they only got one of the 72 cell packs into the other side (I don't think you could cram the extra 24 cells from 2 packs in the remaining space).

So this means there might be no bigger battery version of the 100V monster. [But they could still make a ~1600Wh alternative if they use the cheaper 2.9 mAh cells instead.]

--

Alternatively, if they modify the shell so two 72 packs fit into the side, they could use the cheaper cells to get a ~2300Wh version (the og big monster is ~2330), or the more expensive cells for ~2800Wh.

By the numbers it's not looking very good. Although I would be intrigued and perhaps tempted to upgrade to a 100v Monster I certainly would not bother if in the process I lose ~20% range over my current Monster.

The new Monsters have much thinner pads. I wonder if that would allow them to fit more batteries and still maintain the width of the original Monster?

[US69]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

A bit of speculation.

As @esaj found out in the other thread, it's likely 144 of the expensive 3500 mAh cells (the same they use in the 1600Wh ACMs and msupers V3).

We know the one side of the monster fits the mainboard and 60 cells easily, the other side 120 cells with not so much space left.

So looks like they got 72 instead of 60 cells into the board side (which seems possible, there's quite a bit of empty space in the 84V monster next to the board). Probably they only got one of the 72 cell packs into the other side (I don't think you could cram the extra 24 cells from 2 packs in the remaining space).

So this means there might be no bigger battery version of the 100V monster. [But they could still make a ~1600Wh alternative if they use the cheaper 2.9 mAh cells instead.]

--

Alternatively, if they modify the shell so two 72 packs fit into the side, they could use the cheaper cells to get a ~2300Wh version (the og big monster is ~2330), or the more expensive cells for ~2800Wh.

Thats exactly what i meant in the beginning of this thread...that 1600/2400 at 100volt will not match...

Using 24series or 48 at 2p or 72 at 3p does not work out in an pack that fits into the monster without producing packs that are not "square" anymore...

And i doubt they produce a "60 plus 12 cells nearby" pack.....perhaps they do a 24s2p =48 on board side and 2 of those on the otherr?

But time will tell :-)

 

I have another nice argument against this 100volt version:

Stacking/serializing 18650 cells is not infinite and to be honest i found even 20s on the edge! if one of the 20/24s cells dies, this parallel pack is useless...more cells higher the chance for a failure rate!

The Tesla argument of doing 400volt? they are doing just 6cells in series and parallel that a 74time! and the result is then seriliazed 16 times again! So about 16 * 6s74p, exact numbers can be 1-2 of, did not check it now, just what i remember ....)

so in case of a one cell failure, a tesla only looses 6 cells...and  as these are paralleld 74 times that more or less does not matter!

Having 24cells in a series is 50% more than 16s...i am bit sceptical for longer time use

[Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer"]

I just talked to @Linnea Lin Gotway on WeChat and she said there is "no such plan at the moment" for a 100v Monster.So who knows?  

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, jrkline said:

I just talked to @Linnea Lin Gotway on WeChat and she said there is "no such plan at the moment" for a 100v Monster.So who knows?  

But maybe you just now gave them the idea. Way to go 

That's great that you have some communications. You should try and find out what new models are in the works. Since Gotway has no real competition in the performance arena she shouldn't feel concerned about 'warning' the competition 

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

so why did @Pingouin started this posts about the 100V?

[Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer"]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

But maybe you just now gave them the idea. Way to go 

I was inquiring if there are any plans to make a 100v M3 or ACM.If they need ideas,MAKE A 100V ACM!

[Carlos E Rodriguez]

1 minute ago, jrkline said:

I was inquiring if there are any plans to make a 100v M3 or ACM.If they need ideas,MAKE A 100V ACM!

got it. my misunderstanding.

[meepmeepmayer]

Haha, it gets more mysterious by the minute...

@KingSong69 As always, you were way ahead of us And you're right, 3x48 makes more sense because you could easily fit that into the current shell. I didn't mention it as it's the same capacity as 2x72. Even more reason to believe that, if this thing even exists, there won't be a bigger battery version than ~1850.

@jrkline Did she rule out a 100V monster or did you really only talk about ACM/msuper?

[Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer"]

10 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

so why did @Pingouin started this posts about the 100V?

I assume he has a what he considers to be a reliable source.So who knows?

[meepmeepmayer]

It's a bit sad. With the great (as in good, and as in big) shells of the Gotways, if they managed to put the board on top of the shell (like KS18 for example) that would open up a huge space for another 800Wh+ battery.

Today I learned, higher voltages reduce your battery options

[Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer"]

3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Haha, it gets more mysterious by the minute...

@KingSong69 As always, you were way ahead of us And you're right, 3x48 makes more sense because you could easily fit that into the current shell. I didn't mention it as it's the same capacity as 2x72. Even more reason to believe that, if this thing even exists, there won't be a bigger battery version than ~1850.

@jrkline Did she rule out a 100V monster or did you really only talk about ACM/msuper?

She said there is no such plan at the moment for a 100v Monster.Hopefully @Linnea Lin Gotway will see this thread and chime in directly.

[Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer"]

I just sent @Linnea Lin Gotway a message on Facebook asking her to chime in here in this thread,so we'll see if she shows up.

[US69]

43 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

so why did @Pingouin started this posts about the 100V?

 

30 minutes ago, jrkline said:

I assume he has a what he considers to be a reliable source.So who knows?

From the Photo Pingoun posted....the "source" is the swiss seller "wheelzworld"...owner Matthias Mestermann.

Wheelzworld was one of the first which got the correct Monster (84V) Infos and one of the first european receivers of the Monster. So normally this is a reliable source....

 

Btw.: When you remember: The Rockkwheel Gt16 first was announced with 100V,( and 67 ) also.....And now the only Version is the 84Volt one. Nothing ever heard again of 100V....

 

[Pingouin]

2 hours ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

so why did @Pingouin started this posts about the 100V?

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

But maybe you just now gave them the idea. Way to go 

That's great that you have some communications. You should try and find out what new models are in the works. Since Gotway has no real competition in the performance arena she shouldn't feel concerned about 'warning' the competition 

Hi,

I started this topic to share the info with those who might me interested (or not) with the new Monster 100V, I don't know why Linea Lin from Gotway said that there are no such EUC coming out, because WheelzWorld already ordered some units of these new Monsters, and on his website you can pre-order some, so that wouldn't make any sense for him to spread fake info and take pre-orders for a EUC that doesn't exist

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's a bit sad. With the great (as in good, and as in big) shells of the Gotways, if they managed to put the board on top of the shell (like KS18 for example) that would open up a huge space for another 800Wh+ battery.

Today I learned, higher voltages reduce your battery options

It apparently does, there will only be 1845Wh option for the Monster 100V unfortunately, I guess it will be a very limited market for the already limited Monster market.

 

 

[Tilmann]

2 hours ago, Pingouin said:

Hi,

I started this topic to share the info with those who might me interested (or not) with the new Monster 100V, I don't know why Linea Lin from Gotway said that there are no such EUC coming out, because WheelzWorld already ordered some units of these new Monsters, and on his website you can pre-order some, so that wouldn't make any sense for him to spread fake info and take pre-orders for a EUC that doesn't exist

Gotway sometimes tends to be a bit secretive about details for new products. I guess, they're still suffering from their early childhood trauma when the Kingsong guys walked out with what they (ehh, both, I guess) considered their intellectual property.

2 hours ago, Pingouin said:

It apparently does, there will only be 1845Wh option for the Monster 100V unfortunately, I guess it will be a very limited market for the already limited Monster market.

That should still be good for about 100km on one charge, right? At least my feet will be grateful for an excuse to slot in a pause then .

Picture a 4 amp charger and you can pump close to 400Wh per hour charge time into an empty 100V Monster.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Tilmann said:

I guess, they're still suffering from their early childhood trauma when the Kingsong guys walked out with what they (ehh, both, I guess) considered their intellectual property.

What's the story behind that? The two companies have a common history? Any links? Who does not like EUC manufacturer drama!

@esaj Another offtopic danger