Pingouin

NEW Gotway Monster 100V

136 posts in this topic

55 kph?

That's crazy fast !!!!!!

I'd have to ride my full motorcycle gear when riding at that speed. 

Would be nice to have the added power though and limit the speed. 

Can you set the Monster up to limit the speed ?

(Darn, got me thinking of new Monster now.)

 

Allen

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many fans would it have to cool it ?

It would probably sound like an airliner idling before takeoff. 

 

Allen

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, abinder3 said:

55 kph?

That's crazy fast !!!!!!

I'd have to ride my full motorcycle gear when riding at that speed. 

Would be nice to have the added power though and limit the speed. 

Can you set the Monster up to limit the speed ?

(Darn, got me thinking of new Monster now.)

 

Allen

You can set the tilt back from 3 to 48kph, so yes you can limit the speed ;)

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

You can set the tilt back from 3 to 48kph, so yes you can limit the speed ;)

That's probably what I'd do. 

Love the idea of more torque/power on the Monster for hill climbing.  

I'm already get jealous of riding with @Marty Backe when he's on his Monster when we aren't hill climbing. 

 

Allen

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That extra power power might make the Monster the ultimate off road machine when going distances greater than 25 miles at a time. 

Especially if the terrain has lots of loose dirt/sand, ruts, and rocks. 

B)

Allan

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, abinder3 said:

That extra power power might make the Monster the ultimate off road machine when going distances greater than 25 miles at a time. 

Especially if the terrain has lots of loose dirt/sand, ruts, and rocks. 

B)

Allan

The Gotway Monster is a incredible machine, it's not really the perfect EUC for riding within small city centers, but it's so comfortable, if feels indestructible, and the range is enough for most riders.

There isn't a better EUC for off roading, the 100V just gives the Monster it's title of "king of all EUC" back because the Msuper3 84V & ACM 84V where defeating it's power.

I would say it's not a good starter wheel, but it's the best wheel for those going for long trips, off roading, or who are heavy (because the axle can handle more weight than the other EUC).

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Pingouin said:

Hi guys,

I was aware (but couldn't talk about it) that Gotway intended to offer us a beast, a new version of the Gotway Monster !!

It seems there will be two versions, the Monster 100V 1600Wh & 2400Wh, the prices should be about the same as for the 84V versions. The main differences with the older versions of the Monster include higher top speed (55kph) & higher torque (more climbing ability, less chances of a cut off..)

I don't know why the range seems to have decreased, would a higher voltage mean a decrease in range despite the battery being the same capacity (1600Wh) ?

What do you think about this beast ?!

 

Screenshot_20170415-041741.thumb.jpg

Wow. Exciting news. I wonder what the used market is like for Monsters, because I'd have to sell mine to buy this one.

Since I've been contemplating upgrading my MSuper V3 to the V3s+ model, now I suspect that they'll be coming out with a 100v version of that. This is what Gotway did with the ACM. First they upgraded the MSuper and then flowed that upgrade to the ACM.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Wow. Exciting news. I wonder what the used market is like for Monsters, because I'd have to sell mine to buy this one.

Since I've been contemplating upgrading my MSuper V3 to the V3s+ model, now I suspect that they'll be coming out with a 100v version of that. This is what Gotway did with the ACM. First they upgraded the MSuper and then flowed that upgrade to the ACM.

Hi Marty !

I'm not sure they'll come out with an MsuperV3 100V model, I am in touch with a Gotway distributor, and Kebye only annonced the 100V monster. The 84V Msuper is already plenty fast & powerful imo, the 100V Monster is just a logic evolution for their lead product.

If you buy a 100V monster, please let me know I'm very interested, but I will probably be able to test one before you hehe

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I hope the upgrade from 84V to 100V is better planned than the upgrade from 67V to 84V, where GW literally had the same motor, wiring, etc; and customers were testers if everything actually works (and turns out, the motor connectors and some other stuff wasn't up to the new voltage). At these speeds and wheel weight, you absolutely can't have any failing electronics anymore.

If it's safe, this is what the monster always should have been - more torque (and I guess, more speed - a little scary:shock2:). 100/84 is a 20% power improvement, so you can add 20% to the top speed of the 84V monster.

From what I know, Kebye is aware of the issues of the 84V versions, and I really don't think that they will do the same mistake again. The original Monster could already reach 53 kph I suspect this 100V will reach 60 kph !!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry!

something in this add is nonsense!!

IF there will be a 100Volt Version...the Watthours, here 1600 or 2400wh can not stay the same!

A 100Volt version must have 24batteries per series...and that will not work out with 1600/2400wh

Another question would be if the place is enough!

at the moment a 84 Volt pack has 3x20batteries(per side on 1600wh).how should a 100volt pack work out with the place?

3x24 is 72cells....12 cells more which need place!

 

Just a hint....its not so easy as it seams....

the jump from 67to84 was possible in same shell as that just meant a reduce from 64cells (4p16s) to 60(3p20s)....

i can not see how this will work out here for 24series without developing a total new shell!

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 15.4.2017 at 2:57 PM, Pingouin said:

Hi guys,

I was aware (but couldn't talk about it) that Gotway intended to offer us a beast, a new version of the Gotway Monster !!

It seems there will be two versions, the Monster 100V 1600Wh & 2400Wh, the prices should be about the same as for the 84V versions. The main differences with the older versions of the Monster include higher top speed (55kph) & higher torque (more climbing ability, less chances of a cut off..)

I don't know why the range seems to have decreased, would a higher voltage mean a decrease in range despite the battery being the same capacity (1600Wh) ?

What do you think about this beast ?!

 

Screenshot_20170415-041741.thumb.jpg

Only performance and not safety in mind. Gotway/ Kebye is going more and more into a niche market (currently good selling).
A 55 kph EUC (OMG) should come with a good quality concept and some safety features to make sure you don't hit the road because of weak design or a PCB/ power system failure.

The KV factor of the motor is optimized for speed/ higher rotation. Wondering on low speed behaviour in different situations.  I like to see a power/ torque over rotation diagramm based on the maps of the PCB. This values put over in a drive resistance graph would show the story.

100 V looks like, as the 84 V did before, a device is covered by the low voltage directive (http://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/lvd-directive_en) but not by the General Product Safety Directive http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumers_safety/product_safety_legislation/index_en.htm

Edited by OliverH
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Sorry!

something in this add is nonsense!!

IF there will be a 100Volt Version...the Watthours, here 1600 or 2400wh can not stay the same!

A 100Volt version must have 24batteries per series...and that will not work out with 1600/2400wh

Another question would be if the place is enough!

at the moment a 84 Volt pack has 3x20batteries(per side on 1600wh).how should a 100volt pack work out with the place?

3x24 is 72cells....12 cells more which need place!

 

Just a hint....its not so easy as it seams....

the jump from 67to84 was possible in same shell as that just meant a reduce from 64cells (4p16s) to 60(3p20s)....

i can not see how this will work out here for 24series without developing a total new shell!

I wondered also on the Wh but thought maybe a different cell type, arrangement. The 1600/ 2400 Wh is maybe not valid. I focused on 100 V.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

Sorry!

something in this add is nonsense!!

IF there will be a 100Volt Version...the Watthours, here 1600 or 2400wh can not stay the same!

A 100Volt version must have 24batteries per series...and that will not work out with 1600/2400wh

Another question would be if the place is enough!

at the moment a 84 Volt pack has 3x20batteries(per side on 1600wh).how should a 100volt pack work out with the place?

3x24 is 72cells....12 cells more which need place!

 

Just a hint....its not so easy as it seams....

the jump from 67to84 was possible in same shell as that just meant a reduce from 64cells (4p16s) to 60(3p20s)....

i can not see how this will work out here for 24series without developing a total new shell!

I depend on you @KingSong69 for keeping them honest in the advertising department :thumbup:  However, must you throw cold water on my hopes for a 100v MSuper ?  :furious:  ;)

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I depend on you @KingSong69 for keeping them honest in the advertising department :thumbup:  However, must you throw cold water on my hopes for a 100v MSuper ?  :furious:  ;)

Don't worry Marty, 100V Gotway Monster are coming out, I am in touch with the swedish gotway distributor and he confirmed the Gotway monster 100V ;)

He told me about the 1600Wh and 2400Wh, but I am not a battery specialist to I can't explain how they will fit the new batteries, but the shell may vary from the original Monster.

Edited by Pingouin
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Wow. Exciting news. I wonder what the used market is like for Monsters, because I'd have to sell mine to buy this one.

Since I've been contemplating upgrading my MSuper V3 to the V3s+ model, now I suspect that they'll be coming out with a 100v version of that. This is what Gotway did with the ACM. First they upgraded the MSuper and then flowed that upgrade to the ACM.

I don't think so. The 84V is already the upgrade from the 67V ACMs and msupers V3 (and they upgraded the apparently more popular msuper first). Since the (identical) motor in ACM and msuper V3 is 60V, I don't think you can push it forever, it was "overclocked" at 67V already. You've already seen that there is not enough space for thick enough 84V-compatible cables in the motor from @Rehab1's autopsy, so 100V with the same motor sounds crazy.

They could just, while they order a new motor from the supplier, have it be 100V (or whatever) and make an msuper V4 and ACM2 (not to be confused with ACM V2 = 12 mfets:P), but that would be "new" wheels. Which is probably inevitable, they won't stop making new models, will they?

@KingSong69 Could they not just do 24S 5P vs the current 20S 6P (numbers taken from my 1300Wh 84V - 1600Wh should be the same, just with 3.5Ah cells instead of 2.9Ah) which is the same number of batteries (aka same Wh)? If not, how does the math work (example computation pls), what would be a plausible battery size for 100V?

edit: is the problem that you cannot distribute 5 "pieces" of a battery pack evenly? So you'd have to have 24S3P on one side, and 24S2P on the other side for 1600Wh? That could theoretically work, space wise, with the monster shell, it's big. But 2400 Wh does not work with 24S for both 2.9Ah and 3.5 Ah cells, math does not work out.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't think so. The 84V is already the upgrade from the 67V ACMs and msupers V3 (and they upgraded the apparently more popular msuper first). Since the (identical) motor in ACM and msuper V3 is 60V, I don't think you can push it forever, it was "overclocked" at 67V already. You've already seen that there is not enough space for thick enough 84V-compatible cables in the motor from @Rehab1's autopsy, so 100V with the same motor sounds crazy.

They could just, while they order a new motor from the supplier, have it be 100V (or whatever) and make an msuper V4 and ACM2 (not to be confused with ACM V2 = 12 mfets:P), but that would be "new" wheels. Which is probably inevitable, they won't stop making new models, will they?

@KingSong69 Could they not just do 24S 5P vs the current 20S 6P (numbers taken from my 1300Wh 84V) which is the same number of batteries (aka same Wh)? If not, how does the math work (example computation pls), what would be a plausible battery size for 100V?

edit: is the problem that you cannot distribute 5 "pieces" of a battery pack evenly?

Maybe they'd make it taller and put the '5th piece above the other '4 pieces'; weight distribution solved.  Personally, I wouldn't mind it coming up to my knees in height.  Probably would rule out someone 5ft tall though. 

(Wonder much the 100v/2400wh would weigh.)

 

Allen

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Weight should be the same, if it's the same cell type and capacity (Wh).

I think the problem might be, uneven battery packs = uneven power draw. Smaller battery will drop voltage faster. I don't know if/how much you can help that by connecting the batteries for balancing purposes, the bigger ones would always have to charge the smaller one. We've seen wheels with different size batteries inside so that should not be a problem

Edited by meepmeepmayer
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I wonder whether @EUC Extreme will ever move to the Monster line of wheels. I think he currently favors the Msupers.  Could the extra weight of the Monster limit their use for riding over dirt bike trails?  Or would the weight offer more stability?  I would guess that the larger wheel and heft would make it less nimble as compared to the Msupers?

I thought that I recall him saying that no current controller was able to handle 100v due to the limits of the components.  I wonder whether Gotway/MicroWorks have beefed up their boards, or we could have another "consumer crash test dummy" trial on our hands...

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pingouin said:

Don't worry Marty, 100V Gotway Monster are coming out, I am in touch with the swedish gotway distributor and he confirmed the Gotway monster 100V ;)

He told me about the 1600Wh and 2400Wh, but I am not a battery specialist to I can't explain how they will fit the new batteries, but the shell may vary from the original Monster.

Thanks, but my desire is for the 100v MSuper - it's needs more oomph for climbing hills. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't think so. The 84V is already the upgrade from the 67V ACMs and msupers V3 (and they upgraded the apparently more popular msuper first). Since the (identical) motor in ACM and msuper V3 is 60V, I don't think you can push it forever, it was "overclocked" at 67V already. You've already seen that there is not enough space for thick enough 84V-compatible cables in the motor from @Rehab1's autopsy, so 100V with the same motor sounds crazy.

<snip>

I'm not convinced at all that the engineering does not support the possibility. 100 volts is very far from 'forever' ;)

Gotway knows that their product line appeals to the enthusiast and I'm sure that was a motivation for moving to 84 volt wheels. And sure enough people are buying them. If it's technically possible to produce a 100 volt wheel I bet that they will come out with another version of the MSuper. This summer should be very interesting.

And although I admire what @Rehab1 is doing to his ACM, I'm not convinced that his upgrades are actually necessary. They may be adding a reliability margin or psychological margin or a bit of both. The evidence (lack of anything near widespread failures) actually points to a solid design, if not solid implementation.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Gotway knows that their product line appeals to the enthusiast and I'm sure that was a motivation for moving to 84 volt wheels. And sure enough people are buying them. If it's technically possible to produce a 100 volt wheel I bet that they will come out with another version of the MSuper. This summer should be very interesting.

:popcorn:

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

@Marty Backe I know nothing about electric motors, just my thoughts:

67V is 12% over specification.

84V is 40%.

100V would be over 65%.

So I'm wondering, what is a "60V motor" when you can overuse it by that much and it still works? Anyways, maybe it is possible.

But if my cables melted at 84V, should it not be even easier to melt the same cables (assuming) by using a lot of power (uphills...) at 100V? Will a 100V wheel be even more in danger of damage due to high power draw (because it's easier to demand power)?

I'd want some definitive safety guarantees (like new parts, cables) from GW before considering a 100V msuper.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now