esaj Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Rehab1 said: GW responded to my email and I also received my new hall sensors. I would like to replace the hall sensors with the original type if possible. The new hall sensors are about 1 mm smaller than the OEM version. I still need to test the sensor characteristics with the old one, if possible. Being there were no legs left on the hall sensor to act as a heat sink was there too much heat from my soldering gun to damage the internal electronics? The legs alone aren't large enough to sink much heat, if you're using the butane(?) torch, it could probably heat the component to too high temperatures if held for a little while (same goes for normal soldering iron too, if held too long). At a quick glance, I didn't find any mention of soldering temperatures in the datasheets of a couple of hall sensors (for some components, there are sometimes values given, like "maximum soldering temperature 280 degrees 10mm from case for 10 seconds max" or such), just references to some standard that I couldn't find publicly available (EN60749-15 Resistance to soldering temperature for through-hole mounted devices). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 23 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Good to hear Gotway service will respond to requests that aren't their "fault" (so to speak). Not bad for such a small company I agree! I just received another response. Something is lost in translation. Not sure what the Foreign Trade Department has to do with my Gotway ACM. I will contact Mr. Lu as they requested. Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 My interpretation: You ordered from Ali so your wheel was intended for the Chinese market (as opposed to the "foreign" market). They seem to note the motor codes for geolocking reasons (if your wheel breaks, they will not ship replacement parts to your country if you ordered from "China" (Ali), for example), this is how they protect their local distributors (and higher prices) from "unauthorized" cheaper Ali/banggood/whatever competition (and you could argue it is justified to prevent unexpected shipping costs). So you have to go through the "Chinese" support person. Maybe it's good if you don't mention you are not in China/bought not from "your" country. But since it's a simple info request, not a GW error they'd have to fix on their dime (mention this is not a repair request, just for info - or just lie and say you're in China), it should not be a problem (more like the language barrier, since the GW support could also have told you everything already). In the theoretical worst case, the answer will be "we won't help you, should have bought from your own country". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, esaj said: The legs alone aren't large enough to sink much heat, if you're using the butane(?) torch, it could probably heat the component to too high temperatures if held for a little while (same goes for normal soldering iron too, if held too long). At a quick glance, I didn't find any mention of soldering temperatures in the datasheets of a couple of hall sensors (for some components, there are sometimes values given, like "maximum soldering temperature 280 degrees 10mm from case for 10 seconds max" or such). I used soldering equipment with a variable adjustable heat setting. I adjusted the setting to the lowest temperature that still allowed a uniform flow of solder. I would have put a small clamp on the legs to act as a heat sink but unfortunately they were missing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: My interpretation: You ordered from Ali so your wheel was intended for the Chinese market (as opposed to the "foreign" market). They seem to note the motor codes for geolocking reasons (if your wheel breaks, they will not ship replacement parts to your country if you ordered from "China" (Ali), for example), this is how they protect their local distributors (and higher prices) from "unauthorized" cheaper Ali/banggood/whatever competition. Interesting but if they want to protect their local distributors why are they selling their wheels to unauthorized dealers? Regarding not making them aware I do not live in China they already know I live in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 They sell to Chinese dealers and expect them to only sell to Chinese markets. These Ali dealers are their local "authorized" distributors (or maybe even unauthorized, and they get the wheels somehow). Of course Ali sellers will try and sell to rest of world as well, so GW must prevent this somehow. Keep in mind, that's just my interpretation from what I (believe I) heard. This does not mean GW will totally block any (repair) requests if the wheel does not match the country etc. In the end, they know bad customer support won't win them any friends. It's more of a possible explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 what meepmeep described is unfortunately the behavior of at least KS...protecting their foreign partners and not doing !ANY! service for "self imported" KS wheels. i hope GW is not that rigid...but as they later even protected their new app with regional access.....I doubt it! What I don't get is why "green and traveling" did not answer?! That is -by all problems of language barrier- not their typical behavior :-( wasnt there a Chinese holiday in Beginn of April again? Not sure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Oops, confused Kingsong and GW apparently. More indication that this is just a possible explanation. Maybe it's something totally different. Chinese holiday ended last Wendesday I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Interesting but if they want to protect their local distributors why are they selling their wheels to unauthorized dealers? Regarding not making them aware I do not live in China they already know I live in the USA. I know from KS that the Chinese sellers are forbidden to export the wheels...otherwise loose of contract. but as it is in China ;-) this is all not so consequent! so later kS took another approach....selling the top model WAtthour wheels only to foreigns! (but that also did not work out :-) ) hope you get you parts!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: what meepmeep described is unfortunately the behavior of at least KS...protecting their foreign partners and not doing !ANY! service for "self imported" KS wheels. i hope GW is not that rigid...but as they later even protected their new app with regional access.....I doubt it! What I don't get is why "green and traveling" did not answer?! That is -by all problems of language barrier- not their typical behavior :-( wasnt there a Chinese holiday in Beginn of April again? Not sure.... I hope GW is more consumer friendly. At least I am receiving some form of communication. I need to keep checking my spam folder as Mr. Lu's email address is unique. I will try contacting Green Traveling again (3rd time) but I don't hold out any hope. They have yet to ship me the ACM trolley handle they promised after several requests! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 I conducted a hall sensor test this morning on the new sensors I purchased for my ACM. I attempted to test the old ACM sensor but unfortunately the internal components must be fried as it never worked! The sensor I am using is a bipolar latched version from Honeywell. It is 1mm smaller in width and height from the OEM sensor. I have a few more ordered from different manufacturers to see if they are any larger. I suppose epoxy will fill the 1mm void when they are installed in the motor. I will see what the others look like when they arrive. Here is a short video of the new hall sensor in action using 5 volts to power the first 2 legs of the sensor and a resistor going to diode to prevent the light from burning out. When the North Pole of the magnet passes in front of the sensor it turns on and stays on. This is called latched. When the South Pole passes in front it shuts off. So when both poles play a roll in activating the sensor it is called Bipolar. I hope the video helps to better understand how these little electrical components work within our wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric_vehicle_lover Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 I think makes sense to be latched only!! This way the signal may have less noise than other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 On 9.4.2017 at 6:42 PM, Rehab1 said: I conducted a hall sensor test this morning on the new sensors I purchased for my ACM. I attempted to test the old ACM sensor but unfortunately the internal components must be fried as it never worked! If you still have the two (or one?) other original sensors from the motor, you could try just cutting the wiring and sticking one directly onto the breadboard and wiring from there: No risk of burning the component with hot iron (Nevermind the E/B/C -markings in the picture, they're the BJT-legs). In general, there are very few occasions I've managed to burn a TO-92 -encased component with an iron (don't remember when was the last time, but it has happened). At least with normal (electrical, not gas powered) soldering irons, the "trick" is to use "enough" heat to melt the solder fast, that way the heat won't have time to spread all the way inside the casing and damage the component. For removing a wire from a TO-92 leg, you could just gently pull on the wire while heating the joint, and once the wire comes off, remove the heat from the leg immediately. Using some pliers on the leg above the heating point could also help to suck out the extra heat before it can enter the actual casing. Typical problem with component burning during soldering seems to be being too wary to use high heat, so people use too low heat and heat up the legs for longer time, rather than going in with high heat and doing the solder (relatively) fast, leaving less time for the component to heat. Of course, that doesn't mean to put your iron into the highest possible setting, in my experience, something like 300-330 degrees Celcius works nice with leaded solder (probably somewhat higher for non-leaded, aka Pb-free). In general, although it's said to be less healthy (don't inhale the vapors too much ), I prefer leaded solder with multiple flux channels ("multicore"), current favorite (although I haven't tried that many different tins) is the 0.5mm Stannol 2630, both for SMDs and through holes: http://www.stannol.de/en/products/solder-wires/?tx_produktselektor_filter[aa_prod]=2630&tx_produktselektor_filter[action]=show&tx_produktselektor_filter[controller]=Product Not the healthies option for sure, but the multicore and strong flux makes soldering really easy compared to something like no-clean pb-free tins (tried such, hated it ). For SMD-ICs, I use also (sometimes, if the pads are really small) solder paste. For desoldering, I use separate RMA-flux, desoldering braid and (as necessary) high heat, until I get around to order a hot air -station, that is... But usually when desoldering, I don't care if the component survives it or not (typically something's gone wrong with the soldering, and I just want to get the old component out of the way and replace it with a new one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 50 minutes ago, esaj said: If you still have the two (or one?) other original sensors from the motor, you could try just cutting the wiring and sticking one directly onto the breadboard and wiring from there: Unfortunately there is no wire nubs left on the other one. The one sensor I had high hopes for testing must be fried as it would not illuminate the diode. 53 minutes ago, esaj said: No risk of burning the component with hot iron (Nevermind the E/B/C -markings in the picture, they're the BJT-legs). In general, there are very few occasions I've managed to burn a TO-92 -encased component with an iron (don't remember when was the last time, but it has happened). At least with normal (electrical, not gas powered) soldering irons, the "trick" is to use "enough" heat to melt the solder fast, that way the heat won't have time to spread all the way inside the casing and damage the component. For removing a wire from a TO-92 leg, you could just gently pull on the wire while heating the joint, and once the wire comes off, remove the heat from the leg immediately. Using some pliers on the leg above the heating point could also help to suck out the extra heat before it can enter the actual casing. Yes I used a iron set at around 275 degrees when I soldered the wires on the new test hall sensors. I do use hemostats to act as a heat sink. 58 minutes ago, esaj said: I prefer leaded solder with multiple flux channels ("multicore"), current favorite (although I haven't tried that many different tins) is the 0.5mm Stannol 2630, both for SMDs and through holes: http://www.stannol.de/en/products/solder-wires/?tx_produktselektor_filter[aa_prod]=2630&tx_produktselektor_filter[action]=show&tx_produktselektor_filter[controller]=Product I will check that brand out! Thanks! 1 hour ago, esaj said: For desoldering, I use separate RMA-flux, desoldering braid and (as necessary) high heat, until I get around to order a hot air -station, that is... But usually when desoldering, I don't care if the component survives it or not (typically something's gone wrong with the soldering, and I just want to get the old component out of the way and replace it with a new one). Hot air station! You have my curiosity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Hot air station! You have my curiosity! Probably not that useful with through hole components (although could work there also, maybe?), it's mostly used for soldering and desoldering SMDs ("surface mount devices"), especially ICs with multiple pins (imagine trying to melt the solder from 16 or 24 pins around the component simultaneously using a normal soldering iron). A "hot air rework station" has a "gun" through which the (temperature controlled) hot air is blown, so you can heat up multiple pins fast. http://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/Atten-AT8502D.html That was the one I was going to get, but it's not on sale anymore That's of course sped up, there are lots more in-depth videos and tutorials around. Also used for soldering too (with solder paste, usually not with tin wire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I got something similar to this which seems to be working well so far. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BAKU-BK-601D-SMD-Brushless-Heat-Gun-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Stand-700W-/172602609533 EDIT: Mine's more like this one: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Zeny-2in1-SMD-Station-Soldering-rework-Station-Hot-Air-Iron-852D-ESD-PLCC-w-/272512748381 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I got something similar to this which seems to be working well so far. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BAKU-BK-601D-SMD-Brushless-Heat-Gun-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Stand-700W-/172602609533 Not bad price, and the machine color & logo scream "Hakko-clone": But, I've been warned of getting the cheapest of the cheap units (I know places in Europe that sell <100€ stations), as they're commonly known as "house burners" Or just break down pretty fast... Of course, the Atten I linked above isn't exactly top notch either. On the other hand, a professional Hakko or JBC -station would easily put me back 1000-2000€ or more... http://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/hot-air-stations/jbc/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Interesting, because just last week I did a Re-Flow job on a laptop. My first time trying it, and I didn't expect much from it. But, low and behold, it worked! Brought a laptop back to life. The CPU, BIOS, and GPU were all non functioning. I stripped down the Motherboard, and since I didn't have a "Hot Station", I used the next best thing. My oven! ? Pre Heated it to 385 degrees and baked for 8 minutes. Let cool for a few hours and reassembled and it worked. A Hot Station would have been easier, I'm guessing, as I could have aimed at each chip individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, SuperSport said: Interesting, because just last week I did a Re-Flow job on a laptop. My first time trying it, and I didn't expect much from it. But, low and behold, it worked! Brought a laptop back to life. The CPU, BIOS, and GPU were all non functioning. I stopped down the Motherboard, and since I didn't have a "Hot Station", I used the next best thing. My oven! ? Pre Heated it to 385 degrees and baked for 8 minutes. Let cool for a few hours and reassembled and it worked. A Hot Station would have been easier, I'm guessing, as I could have aimed at each chip individually. I did build my own reflow-oven a while back using a small toaster oven and home-made controller: But only good for soldering (or reflowing) whole boards. EDIT: To prevent any further off-topic, and in case anyone's intersted, here's the post about the oven (towards the end of the post, that is): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, esaj said: Not bad price, and the machine color & logo scream "Hakko-clone": But, I've been warned of getting the cheapest of the cheap units (I know places in Europe that sell <100€ stations), as they're commonly known as "house burners" Or just break down pretty fast... Of course, the Atten I linked above isn't exactly top notch either. On the other hand, a professional Hakko or JBC -station would easily put me back 1000-2000€ or more... http://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/hot-air-stations/jbc/index.html Yeah in hindsight the "Bake-U" branding might not be the best choice of cheapo rework stations to get. They are all varieties of the 852D or + or 862D etc. There's a teardown video somewhere which shows it isn't too bad of a unit. I wouldn't leave it plug in for long, but yeah there's that old adage "Buy Cheap Buy Twice!" EDIT: Found the teardown video.. In contrast to this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 22 hours ago, esaj said: That's of course sped up, there are lots more in-depth videos and tutorials around. Also used for soldering too (with solder paste, usually not with tin wire). Amazing piece of equipment. Thanks! I'm off to purchase another tool! 22 hours ago, esaj said: On the other hand, a professional Hakko or JBC -station would easily put me back 1000-2000€ or more... 22 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I got something similar to this which seems to be working well so far. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BAKU-BK-601D-SMD-Brushless-Heat-Gun-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Stand-700W-/172602609533 EDIT: Mine's more like this one: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Zeny-2in1-SMD-Station-Soldering-rework-Station-Hot-Air-Iron-852D-ESD-PLCC-w-/272512748381 The Zeny or BAKU are more in my price range. __________________________________________ On another note, after pulling the new 14 awg motor wires through the ACM axle I performed a continuity test and found I had cut through one of the hall sensor wires. I removed all of the wires and decided to take @Carlos E Rodriguez's earlier advice and make sure there are no burrs or rough edges around the 2 axle shaft openings. I used a dremel tool with a tapered abrasive grinding stone and smoothed around the outer portion of the shaft openings. I then ran a test wire though the axle conduit and there was still a sharp edge cutting the wire but this time it was on the inside of the shaft. I decided to use fine emery cloth trimmed down to 10mm wide so I could slide it through the shaft openings. After a few passes of the emery cloth the shaft is now completely smooth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 It's all the little things that add up which make a quality product. It's unfortunate considering the amount of money being charged that these little extra details aren't being done at the factory parts and assembly level. Hopefully someone at Gotway is monitoring these forums and seeing where the weak spots are so that they can make their next generation wheels that much better. At their current level, I'm sure the wheels function fine, but when stress tested or banged up over the months of usage I'd much rather have a @Rehab1 modified edition Gotway wheel than a run of the mill unit any day even if it costs a few hundred dollars more. When you're climbing that steep hill next to a dangerous cliff, I'd want to be able to place my trust in a wheel that won't fail due to some small problem that could have been easily avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: At their current level, I'm sure the wheels function fine, but when stress tested or banged up over the months of usage I'd much rather have a @Rehab1 modified edition Gotway wheel than a run of the mill unit any day even if it costs a few hundred dollars more. When you're climbing that steep hill next to a dangerous cliff, I'd want to be able to place my trust in a wheel that won't fail due to some small problem that could have been easily avoided. Thanks for the trust @Hunka Hunka Burning Love! Problably best I don't have a bunch of screws and bolts left over once I finish the reassembly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: It's all the little things that add up which make a quality product. It's unfortunate considering the amount of money being charged that these little extra details aren't being done at the factory parts and assembly level. Hopefully someone at Gotway is monitoring these forums and seeing where the weak spots are so that they can make their next generation wheels that much better. At their current level, I'm sure the wheels function fine, but when stress tested or banged up over the months of usage I'd much rather have a @Rehab1 modified edition Gotway wheel than a run of the mill unit any day even if it costs a few hundred dollars more. When you're climbing that steep hill next to a dangerous cliff, I'd want to be able to place my trust in a wheel that won't fail due to some small problem that could have been easily avoided. If it's only a few hundred more dollars I would pay for a @Rehab1 re-branded ACM. You don't think he has more than a few hundred dollars worth of his time in this effort do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Is $1/ hour a fair wage? My wife would kill this underpaid absent minded professor if she knew about my ACM. Somehow the GW gods have kept her at bay so far!! Interestingly before my wife had surgery this past Monday she told me she would like to learn to ride an EUC! Awesome! If I do get caught with the ACM I can just say I'm building it for her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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