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Gotway ACM 1600 Autopsy and Mods


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@esaj! Very good points and information. Thanks!

The wires on the last hall sensor have not be manipulated  so I should do a little bend test on the wires. 

Once I locate the exact sensor replacement I will probably change out all 3. Now the question is how do I remove the sensors?

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https://www.ebikes.ca/documents/HubMotorHallSensorReplacement.pdf

Also, read through those threads I posted up from before.

Before you remove them, and if you have a small bur and a dremel, you could try trephining around the broken leads to see if you can get enough exposed to solder on an L shaped header to solder to... Sometimes the plastic package has some extra material so if the leads can be exposed maybe you could solder new leads on.  Might be a little sketchy if room is tight, but if it's soldered and epoxied it might be repairable?  How are your microsurgical skills?  :whistling:

On a circuit board once, I had to desolder a surface mount leg from an IC and bend it upwards to solder some thin Kynar wire to.  It ended up breaking off as the wire I used wasn't that flexible (I think I might have used the wrong wire type rather than buying the more flexible one).  I took an Xacto knife and slowly chiseled away at the plastic exposing more of the lead which I was able to solder to.  If you have a fine grinding handpiece and a small enough bur, you might be able to expose enough of the lead to work with.  Difficult to say without looking at how small the sensor is and seeing what tools you have on hand.

BTW, you must have forgotten to pray to the Gotway Gods before taking on the sensor wires.  :innocent1:  Better do that before going further!

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As I continue to follow this adventure I'm more convinced than ever that Ignorance Is Bliss :blink1:

Use and enjoy the wheel for a year or two and then buy another. That's my plan anyway :mellow:

These are not designed or built for long life spans or maintenance.

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I just see it all as a learning experience.  If @Rehab1 didn't accidentally bust off those leads we wouldn't even realize how frail that area is and understand why some motors have a hall sensor PC board.  Some motors look like they have extra electronics components on the board.  It's good to know where the weak spots that are prone to failure, and since the motor is all apart, it shouldn't be a huge task to knock those sensors out and put new ones in.  Where there's a will, there's a way I always say!

If you ever watch Eric the Car Guy's videos, you'll see how many challenges there are to repair a car.  Sometimes overcoming those challenges can be very rewarding, but they are not without risk of course.  I guess it's sort of like how some people like to climb mountains with their EUC's while others prefer flat blacktops to ride on (like me).  :whistling:

Worse comes to worse those plastic sensors could be drilled out, but I would try a small chiseling tool to remove as much adhesive as possible and use the screwdriver/tapping technique as per the PDF.

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19 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Before you remove them, and if you have a small bur and a dremel, you could try trephining around the broken leads to see if you can get enough exposed to solder on an L shaped header to solder to... Sometimes the plastic package has some extra material so if the leads can be exposed maybe you could solder new leads on.  Might be a little sketchy if room is tight, but if it's soldered and epoxied it might be repairable?  How are your microsurgical skills?  :whistling:

Not sure if even neurosurgeon Ben Carson could attach wires to what little remains! Which is basically nothing!

 

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

As I continue to follow this adventure I'm more convinced than ever that Ignorance Is Bliss :blink1:

Use and enjoy the wheel for a year or two and then buy another. That's my plan anyway :mellow:

These are not designed or built for long life spans or maintenance.

I like your philosophy!  Where the hell were you 2 weeks ago?:)

Feel free to ask me this question: 

 

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11 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Not sure if even neurosurgeon Ben Carson could attach wires to what little remains! Which is basically nothing!

 

I like your philosophy!  Where the hell were you 2 weeks ago?:)

Feel free to ask me this question: 

 

:roflmao:

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15 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

<snip>

If you ever watch Eric the Car Guy's videos, you'll see how many challenges there are to repair a car.  Sometimes overcoming those challenges can be very rewarding, but they are not without risk of course.  I guess it's sort of like how some people like to climb mountains with their EUC's while others prefer flat blacktops to ride on.  :whistling:

<snip>

Another fan of Eric :) here. I dip my ladle into his video stream periodically.

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29 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Not sure if even neurosurgeon Ben Carson could attach wires to what little remains! Which is basically nothing!

Hmm, give me a surgical microscope, a small jeweller's bur, and a handheld lab handpiece... :pooping: and I'd probably screw it up worse.  :whistling:  Soldering in that confined location is probably a no go.  Oh well, it was a long shot.  :rolleyes:

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Wow, the forum ate my post... retry:

35 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Not sure if even neurosurgeon Ben Carson could attach wires to what little remains! Which is basically nothing!

 

2 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Hmm, give me a surgical microscope, a small jeweller's bur, and a handheld lab handpiece... :pooping: and I'd probably screw it up worse.  :whistling:  Soldering in that confined location is probably a no go.  Oh well, it was a long shot.  :rolleyes:

 

You'd be surprised what some people can do by hand. Observe:

 

Not that I could do that :D

For size reference:

ScreenShot399.png

 

330px-SMT_sizes,_based_on_original_by_Zu

resistors-on-match-head.jpg?resize=363,4

 

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7 hours ago, affe said:

I'd say you need new hall sensors. Those wires are really brittle..

Are these wires supposed to be that brittle, or is this just another obvious failure point that nobody cared about well enough? How many hall sensors are there, and what happens if one gets disconnected, will the wheel still work?

@Rehab1 I admire and feel regret for your courage:mellow:

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

As I continue to follow this adventure I'm more convinced than ever that Ignorance Is Bliss :blink1:

Use and enjoy the wheel for a year or two and then buy another. That's my plan anyway :mellow:

These are not designed or built for long life spans or maintenance.

Very true. A good wheel requires no second thoughts at all, but is still open for easy modification and tinkering. The Gotways would be that if they cared more about proper design. Close but still missed by a big margin:(

I'm really curious how many failure reports we'll hear in a year or two from the many msupers V3 etc - none at all, or will they all break?

At least it's a good excuse (wifes, wallet, etc) for continuously buying new wheels:D

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5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Are these wires supposed to be that brittle, or is this just another obvious failure point that nobody cared about well enough? How many hall sensors are there, and what happens if one gets disconnected, will the wheel still work?

@Rehab1 I admire and feel regret for your courage:mellow:

For small electronics components, sometimes the leads are not that strong especially if they are bent at the plastic body.  It's usually best to have a slight curved bend to the leads if you need to bend them to help avoid fractures of the metal.  Soldering a large wire to a fragile lead can be asking for trouble as they usually are designed to be soldered to a PC board so they don't need to withstand stresses like a large wire moving them around.  If they disconnect, you basically kiss the concrete. :wub:

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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

How many hall sensors are there, and what happens if one gets disconnected, will the wheel still work?

There are three of them... If one gets disconnected, the wheel will turn very strange and not smooth at all. Maybe you'll faceplant, maybe you don't, depends on how good/experienced you are on an EUC. You can ask @Sidestreet Reny to reupload some footage of hall sensor failures in wheels.

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1 hour ago, esaj said:

Wow, the forum ate my post... retry:

 

 

You'd be surprised what some people can do by hand. Observe:

 

Not that I could do that :D

For size reference:

ScreenShot399.png

 

330px-SMT_sizes,_based_on_original_by_Zu

resistors-on-match-head.jpg?resize=363,4

 

Oh God Bless You! Thanks a bunch! The chart and video...Perfecto!!

Just finished playing dentist and my hall sensors are definitely in the teeny tiny category: 5mm hgt x 4mm wide x 1mm thick. Unfortunately there are no visible markings on the sensors to reference but your table should work awesome. 

These little tooth fairy sensors deserve a lot of respect considering their role in keeping us safe while riding at high speeds!

 @Marty Backe ! Time to start worshipping both the Gotway and Hall Sensor Gods! Be safe buddy!

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13 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Just finished playing dentist and my hall sensors are definitely in the teeny tiny category: 5mm hgt x 4mm wide x 1mm thick. Unfortunately there are no visible markings on the sensors to reference

There should be some text on one side of it, it can be difficult to see, a magnifying glass and turning it under a light helps see it. Unless it's covered by whatever glue or epoxy they used for attaching...

Here's a picture of the sensor I mentioned earlier, the right-side text is practically invisible without good light (and hard to read without magnification), shining light with a small flashlight from the side under a loop shows them clearly:

YrKsAQZ.png

 

 

13 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

but your table should work awesome. 

Hmm, if you mean the size-table in the post with the soldering video, it's just component sizes, not hall-sensors or such. Point was to show that the 01005 -component the guy is soldering by hand in the video is like a dust speckle (the last picture shows the component sitting on a matchstick-head, with larger components next to it), his steady hand and the huge magnification in the video make it look easy.

 

 

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Nice job on the sensor removal!   On the cup is half full side, at least you can beef up the weakness in the sensor leg to wire area once you get the new sensors in.  It's good to tackle that now rather than have it possibly fail down the road.  And don't get me wrong, but I'm just going to say this now - please be careful not to accidentally score or damage the varnish/laquer/insulation on any of the copper windings.  Otherwise I might have to do a Google search on how to wind an electric motor... :whistling:

:innocent1: Gotway Gods, please don't let Rehab1 nick the copper wiring coils... please don't let Rehab1 nick the copper wiring coils... 

Not that we need it, but it's interesting reading: http://www.motordoc.org/2016/05/30/art-electric-motor-repair-part-7-process/

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34 minutes ago, esaj said:

(the last picture shows the component sitting on a matchstick-head,

Thank you for clearing that up, at first glance I thought it was a finger tip turned very red:o Whew! I feel better now, but now realize just how small those things really are.  Jeez, I guess my eyes are worse than I thought.:(

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56 minutes ago, esaj said:

There should be some text on one side of it, it can be difficult to see, a magnifying glass and turning it under a light helps see it. Unless it's covered by whatever glue or epoxy they used for attaching...

Here's some handy tips to try, but the glue would need to be removed to avoid obscuring the process.

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/5186/how-to-read-the-text-printed-on-top-of-every-ic

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59 minutes ago, esaj said:

There should be some text on one side of it, it can be difficult to see, a magnifying glass and turning it under a light helps see it. Unless it's covered by whatever glue or epoxy they used for attaching...

I have 2 sensors that did not fully break apart. On my first inspection no markings were present but you might be correct about some glue concealing the markings. My wheel is a work so I will look closer tomorrow. Thanks!

51 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Nice job on the sensor removal!   On the cup is half full side, at least you can beef up the weakness in the sensor leg to wire area once you get the new sensors in.  It's good to tackle that now rather than have it possibly fail down the road.  And don't get me wrong, but I'm just going to say this now - please be careful not to accidentally score or damage the varnish/laquer/insulation on any of the copper windings.  Otherwise I might have to do a Google search on how to wind an electric motor... :whistling:

:innocent1: Gotway Gods, please don't let Rehab1 nick the copper wiring coils... please don't let Rehab1 nick the copper wiring coils... 

Not that we need it, but it's interesting reading: http://www.motordoc.org/2016/05/30/art-electric-motor-repair-part-7-process/

Thanks! Good advice about the windings! 

Nice prayer!! Please add: Gotway Gods, please never let Rehab1's wife find out about his ACM! :cry2:

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Here's some handy tips to try, but the glue would need to be removed to avoid obscuring the process.

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/5186/how-to-read-the-text-printed-on-top-of-every-ic

Thanks! I see you have had success using this method:laughbounce2:

 

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39 minutes ago, Wences Mallol Navarro said:

I have a kingstong seagway and I don't now the code of authorizication. I have the KS-16

What can I do?

If you have a KingSong 16, please ask over in the KingSong threads as they will know better how to help.  This is the GotWay forum.

You can find the KingSong forums here:

http://forum.electricunicycle.org/forum/38-king-song/

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I am learning a lot about Hall Effect Sensors but I have not been able to locate the exact sensor yet. Hopefully tomorrow.

 A Gotway representative did email me with a quick note for me to contact the seller. Nice! I don't think The Green Fashion Travel Shop will be of much assistance locating the proper sensor but I emailed them anyway. No response yet. 

I did find out that the sensors used in the GW ACM are considered 'Latched'. I am not sure about other wheels but I assume they would be identical. Here is a nice little video explaining how these sensors work.

 

 

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