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Gotway ACM 1600 Autopsy and Mods


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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Have you at least taken it for a tiny 6 foot test - it's basically working?

Ok Marty ! Anything to get out of a deposition this afternoon. My first test ride with a :)shirt tail hanging out of my pants! 

 

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24 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Ok Marty ! Anything to get out of a deposition this afternoon. My first test ride with a :)shirt tail hanging out of my pants! 

 

That was fantastic :D Gave me a warm feeling inside to see that ACM floating around the parking lot - I miss my ACM right now :(

Congratulations, and you must feel very happy to see it working like that after everything that it's been through. :cheers:
BTW, you cracked me up with your "Bad luck" comment :laughbounce2:

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27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

That was fantastic :D Gave me a warm feeling inside to see that ACM floating around the parking lot - I miss my ACM right now :(

 

All of these GW issues will hopefully be resolved soon and you will be back in the saddle again! :thumbup:

 

30 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Congratulations, and you must feel very happy to see it working like that after everything that it's been through. 

I had some reservations especially after my Father's Day accident but it did feel good to jump on board. Did you hear my left pedal scrape on the last turn? My V5F+ or the V8 would never do that. I just need to get use to it and back off on sharp turns.

35 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

BTW, you cracked me up with your "Bad luck" comment :laughbounce2:

If you were standing next to me I would never have tested it!:) I figured 3000 miles of real estate between us would be enough insulation from your bad luck!  :laughbounce2:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Since I have to replace the ACM board that is arriving tomorrow I might as well drill one more hole for good luck!  :) 

I ordered a Bayite DC 6.5-100V 0-100A LCD Display that will read the motor's current voltage ( only one of the three leads), the power, energy and amperage. It has a 100A Current Shunt that will take the place of a existing bullet connector for one of the motor wires. Which wire should I select for the test: yellow, green or blue?vl21gFV.jpg

 Specs:

Working voltage: DC 6.5 ~ 100V 
Measuring Accuracy: 1% 
Power Consumption: 0.2W 
Measurement speed: 2 times/s 
Store Energy data when power off. Can be reset to 0. 
The blue backlight can be turned on/off manually 

Test Range and Display format: 

1.Active Power test range: 0~10kW 
2.Energy test range: 0~9999kWh 
3.Voltage test range: DC 6.5~100V 
4.Current test range: 0~ 100A 

Additionally I ordered 5 feet of 5/16" Thermo Armor Silicone Coated Fiberglass Fire Sleeve to protect the motor wires. Check out the operating temperature! 

Specs:

  • Size: 5/16" | Quantity: 5 Feet | Color: Red | (size is ID and is approximate, can vary +/- 3mm)
  • Inner Sleeve: Fiberglass | Coating Material: Silicone | Operating Temp: -50°C - 260°C | Flammability: VW-1
  • Used to protect fuel lines, hydraulic and oil lines from heat and to prolong the life of wiring and hoses in case of fire so that critical systems can function longer in the aviation and marine fields
  • Voltage: 7.0KV | RoHS Certified

jiIzsRs.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Since I have to replace the ACM board that is arriving tomorrow I might as well drill one more hole for good luck!  :) 

I ordered a Bayite DC 6.5-100V 0-100A LCD Display that will read the motor's current voltage ( only one of the three leads), the power, energy and amperage. It has a 100A Current Shunt that will take the place of a existing bullet connector for one of the motor wires. Which wire should I select for the test: yellow, green or blue?

...

 Specs:

Working voltage: DC 6.5 ~ 100V 
Measuring Accuracy: 1% 
Power Consumption: 0.2W 
Measurement speed: 2 times/s 
Store Energy data when power off. Can be reset to 0. 
The blue backlight can be turned on/off manually 

Test Range and Display format: 

1.Active Power test range: 0~10kW 
2.Energy test range: 0~9999kWh 
3.Voltage test range: DC 6.5~100V 
4.Current test range: 0~ 100A 

...

As @Slaughthammerwrote thats for DC measurement. With two measurements a second you could get any valid value of voltage and current... This values are "chopped" with the PWM signal of about 6kHz - so the measurement will take any abitrary point ...

But depending on the sample and hold circuit of the meter the measured values could be averaged enough to show a meaningfull value - so as the apps and also some others who measured with 50-100Hz sampling rate got quite valid values.

The, in a normal price range sold AC meter would not help anyhow - contrary they would show quite nothing, since the mostly presume a sine wave form and show the effective value from the peak values measured.

To get the absolutely correct and real values some sampling rate with quite a multiple of the PWM frequency would be needed or a true RMS meter - one would not want to put any of these two into the EUC for test driving...

For selecting the wire to insert the shunt: Unfortionately the resistance value of the shunt was not posted in the one link i found for the meter - if one hopes that it is in about the range of the other current shunts already on the mainboard to measure the motor currents for the firmware and normaly just 2 of the motor phases are measured i would insert the shunt in the third phase (where no shunt is on the mainboard in the current path).

Be prepared that maybe the shunt has an resistance value that could hinder the wheel from normal operation - expect the unexpected :ph34r:

Many shunts (especially for DC measuremnts) are made from wires forming a coil - so they could have quite an inductance again hindering the wheel from normal operation!

Just in case - don't be too surprised if the shunt gets extremely hot and melts through the plastic!

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

It has a 100A Current Shunt that will take the place of a existing bullet connector for one of the motor wires. Which wire should I select for the test: yellow, green or blue?

EEkk!  I'd be afraid of putting it on the motor side.  I helped someone put a shunt on the Battery side, but the motor side would concern me.  It might affect the run-ability of the wheel.

EDIT:  Oops, I just noticed this was already mentioned...

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I was hoping to record the duty cycle of each period spike of the current on just one phase but it appears this piece of equipment would not be appropriate. Thanks for your input.  

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2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I was hoping to record the duty cycle of each period spike of the current on just one phase but it appears this piece of equipment would not be appropriate. Thanks for your input.  

It was imho @Jason McNeilwho made nice logs with this 50/100Hz sampling rate, also @zlymexhas some nice logging equipment.

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4 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Which wire should I select for the test: yellow, green or blue?

Ooh, ooh, Yellow!  Because it would look better against the green and black.  No, seriously, you could try it at slow speeds just pushing it by hand, and if the motor feels like it's running wrong, disconnect it.   It should be safe to test without riding it, for a brief moment, while checking the temperature.  That reminds me, @jrkline put something similar on his ACM.  Did you see the digital display on his wheel?  (BTW, after reading the other posts about not doing it, I don't want you to try it either)   I just noticed, he used a 1/4 inch u-bolt to secure the top of the trolley handle.  Super strong.33467304453_b378dc5765_b.jpg

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2 hours ago, Chriull said:

It was imho @Jason McNeilwho made nice logs with this 50/100Hz sampling rate, also @zlymexhas some nice logging equipment.

Thanks! @Jason McNeil and @zlymex would you mind sharing the logging equipment you have developed? Thank you in advance!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

Thanks! @Jason McNeil and @zlymex would you mind sharing the logging equipment you have developed? Thank you in advance!

 

My logging equipment is a GRAPHTEC GL220: http://www.graphteccorp.com/instruments/gl220/gl220_brochure.pdf
Now they have a new version GL240 that capable of measure 100V directly: https://www.dataq.com/resources/pdfs/datasheets/gl240_ds.pdf

I measure the battery voltage from the charge port, and measure the battery output current by inserting a LEM current transducer: http://www.lem.com/docs/products/lts 25-np.pdf
and measure the output voltage(0-5V) using the 5V range. 
5962cf14086cf_LEMITS25-NP.jpg.fb1700be24de8011b731673a74a0abc2.jpg

Edit: the standard accessory GL220 comes with no battery.  I made two in order for potable use.
P1150994s.jpg.cb1cef12a78993fa54b67e2d96c30954.jpg
P1150995s.jpg.64b314e9ee8f0aef2ce9531016be8d3c.jpg

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I had a similar display in the Firewheel, the shunt was put to battery side:

gh1lcUl.jpg

1PFnao1.jpg

The current measurement was relatively useless in the end, as the reading jumped up and down a lot, no idea how accurate the shunt was either (looks like it was adjusted with a hacksaw ;) )

 

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55 minutes ago, zlymex said:

My logging equipment is a GRAPHTEC GL220: http://www.graphteccorp.com/instruments/gl220/gl220_brochure.pdf
Now they have a new version GL240 that capable of measure 100V directly: https://www.dataq.com/resources/pdfs/datasheets/gl240_ds.pdf

I measure the battery voltage from the charge port, and measure the battery output current by inserting a LEM current transducer: http://www.lem.com/docs/products/lts 25-np.pdf
and measure the output voltage(0-5V) using the 5V range. 
5962cf14086cf_LEMITS25-NP.jpg.fb1700be24de8011b731673a74a0abc2.jpg

Edit: the standard accessory GL220 comes with no battery.  I made two in order for potable use.
P1150994s.jpg.cb1cef12a78993fa54b67e2d96c30954.jpg
P1150995s.jpg.64b314e9ee8f0aef2ce9531016be8d3c.jpg

Thank you! A wealth of information! I see they have a wireless version. 12 channels! Amazing!

Did you use an external battery pack? I already have a step down transformer mounted inside the ACM to power the ventilation fan which could easily power the logger.

My ACM is going to start looking like some  Storm Hunter vehicle with data loggers mounted everywhere!:)

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7 minutes ago, esaj said:

The current measurement was relatively useless in the end, as the reading jumped up and down a lot, no idea how accurate the shunt was either (looks like it was adjusted with a hacksaw ;) )

Thanks! In the beginning I may just stick with the 2 channel temperature logger. Once the new board arrives tomorrow during reassembly I am going to place a temp probe in direct contact with one of the bullet connectors and then insulate over it. 

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4 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Did you use an external battery pack? I already have a step down transformer mounted inside the ACM to power the ventilation fan which could easily power the logger.

Yes, I have three external battery packs for my V3s+ with total capacity of 1600Wh.
As for the step down transformer, I use this: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.1f30a53ftgrQ6A&id=529691774405
Tiny, wide input range(15V to 380V), highly efficient, and with very small quiescent current(less than 0.02mA at 100V input)

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