Xelvic

My KS-16S (sport) review

71 posts in this topic

Man, thanks for this! I also have the V5F+ and have been thinking of upgrading to a wheel with more range, speed and stability, but that still has almost the same portability as my current wheel (including integrated trolley handle). Specifically I've been looking towards the KS16S, but it sounds like I might be disappointed if I go that route. There is a small voice inside me telling me to wait perhaps another year before upgrading, so maybe that's what I should do.

Anyway, thanks for the review.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

When I bought my V5F+ from Jason it came with the trolley handle. That Trolley handle is all aluminum, super robust and took a thousand crashes without damage (this is the wheel I learned on, so you all know what I mean). The top (exposed portion) of KS Trolley handle is made out of plastic, and if it was my learning wheel, I would have surely broke it within the first few attempted rides. When I was first learning on the V5F+ I swear it would tumble further distance than what I was able to stay on it for. My son also learned on it and now my wife is starting. I'm not kidding when I say the V5F+ has crashed over a thousand times. I still have not had one single problem with it.

Edited by Xelvic
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting you find such a difference between the wheels.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well...I pulled the pads up a little to see if it was something I could modify. Nope, there is a plastic mold under the pad which is about the same size as the pad. No wonder why the pads are rock hard. I bet under those molds will be battery/electronic compartments so I'm stuck I guess. Doesn't look like anything can be done with the pedals either. Oh well, hopefully after a few more rides I'll get used to it at start to enjoy it like my V5F+.

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I just found this picture so my suspicions about whats behind the pad molds are correct. No modifying those!!

H17Y15wRM2i2krPYRBz5UmMfzTYav7hGQHWS0KgI

 

 

Edited by Xelvic
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes... you are probably right about the smaller wheel. It is a zippy little Porsche compared to the muscle car Mustang. Makes since.

I forgot to tell you guys... for reference in regards to how the wheels feels for me, I'm 6-1, 230 pounds or for my metric friends, 1.85 meter and 104 Kilo's.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When i switch wheels i always find anything different on the new wheel to be strange at first too. The stock padding on my ks16b really hurt my legs at first when leaning on it, but after putting bumper padding over them its fine now. I scrape the pedals when doing quick turns too but it doesn't bother me much anymore.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Darn, this makes me wonder if I should go with V8 instead of KS16 (not S, but the older model, whatever the newest is, KS16C?)... If I could, I'd get both, but with the prices it's not really an option and can't get to test both anywhere. I did try my friends KS16 (B?), and loved it, but then, V8 is cheaper (surprisingly, the usually expensive domestic seller has it for about 1070€ including shipping :o  But don't know whether they stock them or just get them on order, so there might be a waiting list, which probably gives a certain well known US/UK reseller an advantage ;)), about the same top speed (30km/h top speed is enough for me), 16" like I'm looking for, has relatively large battery (something like 460Wh?), which maybe could be enough, as I'm fairly sure with my weight I could push over 40km out of it... reading all the praise, I'm sure it rides and works well, but on the other hand, I'm slightly worried if I'd still be disappointed with the range... "You people" make these choices hard for me. ;)

Edited by esaj
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

My 2 cents:

In today's EUC market, there are too many competitive offerings to excuse: 1.) low pedal height and 2.) sub-84V operational. (InMotion, Gotway, Rockwheel). I personally refuse to buy any such machine.

It's discouraging as a KS-18 owner to see that KingSong is resting on their laurels and only making minor improvements when the competition are leapfrogging them. 

Maybe the KS-16S is an incremental upgrade model to an upcoming revamped KingSong product line(?) what with the rumors of a re-designed KS-18, etc....

Edited by houseofjob
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

My 2 cents:

In today's EUC market, there are too many competitive offerings to excuse: 1.) low pedal height and 2.) sub-84V operational. (InMotion, Gotway, Rockwheel). I personally refuse to buy any such machine.

I'm a bit unclear on what you mean by "sub-84V operational". Care to elaborate?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, esaj said:

I'm a bit unclear on what you mean by "sub-84V operational". Care to elaborate?

KS-16S appears to still run @ 67.2V, as opposed to 84V wheels like the InMotion V5, V8; Gotway Monster, MSuperV3S+, ACM 1300WH; Rockwheel GT16.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

KS-16S appears to still run @ 67.2V, as opposed to 84V wheels like the InMotion V5, V8; Gotway Monster, MSuperV3S+, ACM 1300WH; Rockwheel GT16.

Are 84V EUCs trouble free? It's a new generation and technology/ production process needs to be aligned.

If I remember right:

  • Rockwheel is doing some debugging to fix issues with their 84 V version
  • Gotway had issues with soldering (now trying to crimp the plugs)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, OliverH said:

Are 84V EUCs trouble free? It's a new generation and technology/ production process needs to be aligned.

If I remember right:

  • Rockwheel is doing some debugging to fix issues with their 84 V version
  • Gotway had issues with soldering (now trying to crimp the plugs)

Not sure about the Rockwheel 'debugging issues' (never found an explanation), while the Gotway issue is with improper soldering. AFAIK, no 84V related issues with the InMotion wheels.

To counter your point and play devil's advocate, I challenge you to see if anyone has experienced overlean cutout on any of the 84V, over 800W nominal wheels (so Gotway and Rockwheel, but not InMotion, as they are 550W (V5F+) and 800W (V8)). 

I am no expert here, but there must be a reason for the move to 84V (higher performance potential perhaps?).

And, of course, there are always growing pains with first-to-market.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Not sure about the Rockwheel 'debugging issues' (never found an explanation), while the Gotway issue is with improper soldering. AFAIK, no 84V related issues with the InMotion wheels.

To counter your point and play devil's advocate, I challenge you to see if anyone has experienced overlean cutout on any of the 84V, over 800W nominal wheels (so Gotway and Rockwheel, but not InMotion, as they are 550W (V5F+) and 800W (V8)). 

I am no expert here, but there must be a reason for the move to 84V (higher performance potential perhaps?).

And, of course, there are always growing pains with first-to-market.

Inmotion is different to the other manufacturers. It looks like they engineer/ design products and not just do something.

Moving to higher voltage will push this products away from the low voltage directive.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2017 at 11:53 PM, Xelvic said:

I got my KS-16S today. First off, thanks to Jason at ewheels for the great customer service. He answered all my question via email quickly and I highly recommend him. Now on to the wheel. I have the V5F+ that I got from Jason so that's what I'm comparing to. Initially I ordered V8 because I love my V5F+  and figured it would be a good upgrade. Then I heard about this KS-16S so I asked Jason to change my order and jumped on it. I put about 6 hours on it today doing everything possible.

To be honest, I wish I would have gone with the V8. The main reason is because the KS-16S pedals are much lower than the V5F+ and I'm constantly dragging pedals on all my turns. So much so that it yanked me sideways a couple of times. I'm going to have to figure out how to modify the pedals. The app is a disappointment, I have not one good thing to say about it. So much in the app is counter intuitive. Inmotion is much better and that's saying a lot because theirs stinks too. They could both user a better English-meaning translation. The manual that comes with the KS is minimal at best and leaves a lot out. I had to google everything to include making sure your location permission for the app was turned on or else it would not sync. The KS side pads are huge and don't give me as much side to side articulation as the V5F+ does. My legs are sore from them pushing on them. I need to figure out how to take them off. I don't need pads at all because I don't squeeze the wheel with my legs. The wheel does not ride, accelerate, or stop as smooth as the V5F+ does. I can feel the KS motor grumbling at times. I do like the speed of the KS, the bluetooth speakers, LED lights and fast charger. The tilt back is also smoother than the V5F+. The V5F+ tilt back can be a little scary at full speed.

I tested the KS side by side today with my 10 year old son next to me on the V5F+. I swapped back and forth on smooth pavement, grassy parks, steep hills and rough terrain to compare. Again, the V5F+ I thought was better in every way to include being much more nimble. Those huge thick pads on the KS take up all my side to side articulation space. Otherwise that space allows me to make quick movements while making low speed maneuvers.The KS did not feel more powerful than the V5F+ so who knows how it would stack against the more powerful V8. I'm sure the range on the KS is better than the V5F+ but did not test it. I plan on buying another wheel soon because my wife is learning now too (I had to buy 3 Segway Mini pros for same reason). I will either get another V5F+ or V8. My son didn't even want to ride the KS because it hurt his legs with those huge pads. For me the V5F+ was perfect for me so maybe I'm just biased. I could have almost bought 2 V5F+ for the money spent on one KS-16S. I wish I would have, as it would've been better money spent. I think as long as I can make the modifications it will suffice for now. If the KS would have been my first wheel I probably would have loved it. The Inmotion V5F+ is just so refined, comfortable, and smooth (good looking too). I guess the KS-16S would be like a Ford Mustang and the Inmotion V5F+ would be like a Porsche. I love both cars but given the choice I would take the Porsche any day over the Mustang.

I don't know all the crazy tech stuff that some do in this forum, but if you ask I will do my best to answer.

I will be more than happy to trade my little used V8 for your KS16S. 

(I haven't even used my V8 since getting my KS18B.)

 

Allen

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for issues with side panels - please try to make them "softer" by adding foam padding. 

I have switched to KS16 from Ninebot One E+ , and at the beginning it felt wider - but after a while (and with padding) I have to say that I have no problem with the width of the wheel at all. 20170123_002314_resize.jpg

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

I have switched to KS16 from Ninebot One E+ , and at the beginning it felt wider - but after a while (and with padding) I have to say that I have no problem with the width of the wheel at all. 

Thank-you!  That is a good data point for me.  I have Ninebot One E+ and am considering a KS16 model.  Sounds like it will indeed feel wider.  But can be adjusted to. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I just ordered the V8 from Jason. Now I will have that to compare to the KS-16S and VF5+ too. Now I will have 3 wheels and 3 Mini Pros. This stuff is addicting!

Edited by Xelvic
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 19.3.2017 at 1:50 AM, houseofjob said:

My 2 cents:

In today's EUC market, there are too many competitive offerings to excuse: 1.) low pedal height and 2.) sub-84V operational. (InMotion, Gotway, Rockwheel). I personally refuse to buy any such machine.

It's discouraging as a KS-18 owner to see that KingSong is resting on their laurels and only making minor improvements when the competition are leapfrogging them. 

Maybe the KS-16S is an incremental upgrade model to an upcoming revamped KingSong product line(?) what with the rumors of a re-designed KS-18, etc....

I dont know if i would hang up this conclusion by a post of a "just v5f" 14" owner...who has not have any different wheel experience, 16s pedals are new and should be even a bit higher as normal Ks16

KS seams to go a total different road then GW...safety over high speed and otherwise than the motor its a complete new board as far as i know...much stronger mosfets, more capacitors etc etc...

After the last problems with complety melted cable...there is a big questionmark (for ME) if this GW 84v high power line wasn't rushed way to fast to the market. There will be perhaps other 84 volt problems coming up?...i guess 25% more cells in a serial system will also bring the possible cell failure rate higher/long live down..as seriell stacking of 18650 has its end somewhere.

I am also waiting to see what KS does with the ks18....but as there is not one little announcement/picture up until now, we wont see it on the market before 6-9 months. Seams they have put their energy in the 14 redesiging process...and now moving their resources from one wheel to another :-(

Edited by KingSong69
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Xelvic looking forward to you review of the V8. I have been comparing the KS16S with the V8 and your input has been very influential in my purchase decision. Very interested to see if your thoughts change in any way about the 16S after trying the V8.  Thanks for sharing!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 3/18/2017 at 2:53 AM, Xelvic said:

To be honest, I wish I would have gone with the V8. The main reason is because the KS-16S pedals are much lower than the V5F+ and I'm constantly dragging pedals on all my turns.

 

5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

I dont know if i would hang up this conclusion by a post of a "just v5f" 14" owner...who has not have any different wheel experience, 16s pedals are new and should be even a bit higher as normal Ks16

@KingSong69"Just V5F owner" or not, pedal scrape is pedal scrape, no matter what your proficiency level or owning history.

The InMotion wheels don't do it, and the same should go for a new wheel like the KS16S. Plus @Xelvic is saying the KS16S pedals are visually lower; I'm assuming he has good enough eyes to judge as he has both wheels in his possession to compare side-by-side.

 

5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

After the last problems with complety melted cable...there is a big questionmark (for ME) if this GW 84v high power line wasn't rushed way to fast to the market. There will be perhaps other 84 volt problems coming up?...i guess 25% more cells in a serial system will also bring the possible cell failure rate higher/long live down..as seriell stacking of 18650 has its end somewhere.

Gotway has always had fundamental (and many avoidable IMHO) QC issues like this in their history. One company's oversight doesn't mean 84V is the wrong direction.

I don't see any mention of melted wires / motor connector issues with InMotion EUC reports, and those are all 84V.

(plus, FWIW, the Gotway issues, while still disturbing and unexcusable, are from the minority of users reporting, otherwise you'd see a whole lot more reports on here.... not excusing them, just stating the facts at hand).

 

5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

KS seams to go a total different road then GW...safety over high speed and otherwise than the motor its a complete new board as far as i know...much stronger mosfets, more capacitors etc etc...

Personally, I don't totally agree here.

KingSong got their start basically copying the Gotway design, but attempting a safer, more user friendly version of it. Why can't they do that again with the new 84V Gotways wheels? (and maybe they currently are doing so...)

I know you love KingSong, and when done right, so do I. But I, personally, can't excuse any company content to just do minor spec upgrades, charging the same prices. I refuse to pay $$ for a slightly faster version of the same model from last year when the competition is innovating much faster.

Edited by houseofjob
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Maximus said:

@Xelvic looking forward to you review of the V8. I have been comparing the KS16S with the V8 and your input has been very influential in my purchase decision. Very interested to see if your thoughts change in any way about the 16S after trying the V8.  Thanks for sharing!

One of the things that you're definitely going to have to ask yourself is "am I satisfied only going 20 miles max on a charge".  The KS16S will definitely get you more mileage on a charge. 

 

I weigh 193 lbs and I get between 16-18 miles on a charge with my V8.  If Inmotion had put twice the wh of a battery in the V8, it would be an absolutely amazing wheel.  

 

Don't get me wrong, the V8 is a good wheel.  It's just limited on its range.  That's why I also have my KS18B which I ride now; haven't ridden the V8 since getting the KS18B.  I don't want to be worried that I may not make it back to where I started on the V8. 

 

Allen

Edited by abinder3
Added content
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

The InMotion wheels don't do it, and the same should go for a new wheel like the KS16S. Plus @Xelvic is saying the KS16S pedals are visually lower; I'm assuming he has good enough eyes to judge as he has both wheels in his possession to compare side-by-side.

Yes, Inmotion has extremly high pedals...no other wheels have those...KS14D as completly new wheel has got higher pedals...KS16S as a "update" only had become slightly higher pedal angle's to get the pedals a bit higher than before...

What i meant  here is that if someone driving a V8 with just a few Inch between his legs and totally high pedals, and jumps then on a KS16 or ACM, and now has a "Football" between his legs he will for sure have Problems with some pedal scratch, just as he is not used to this totally different vehicle...i for myself did not even had pedal scratch probs on a normal KS16...as used to ride different wheels...

 

41 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

I don't see any mention of melted wires / motor connector issues with InMotion EUC reports, and those are all 84V.

Do you mean this seriously? Come on ;-) Sure: Inmotion has a max of 20s2p...2 parallel Systems(20Amp draw max) which can for sure can not push as much power as 6 parallel Systems with 20S6P 60Amp...

From this side Inmotion and GW's 84 Volt are not real comparable,,,

Btw: A russian implemented stronger Batteries on his V8, Samsung 15Amp, guess what happends? Board burned on high power draw:-)

49 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

(plus, FWIW, the Gotway issues, while still disturbing and unexcusable, are from the minority of users reporting, otherwise you'd see a whole lot more reports on here.... not excusing them, just stating the facts at hand).

I think even the ACM 84 Volt are to new in the market to say the majority runs well...we will see if there will be some more reports...

And from my view it are way, way to much reports of Shorts, melts, connector Problems of V3(s+) etc...Seams to be rushed in the view of that the calble thickness wasn't really thought about...

51 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

I know you love KingSong, and when done right, so do I. But I, personally, can't excuse any company content to just do minor spec upgrades, charging the same prices. I refuse to pay $$ for a slightly faster version of the same model from last year when the competition is innovating much faster.

Nope, The times that i loved KS are over! that was last year April/May when they were on the top and out with new 16inch a good times before GW....

 

But not because of the KS16S now, which again, i do not find to be "only faster"....The only thing that has stayed the same to be honest is the outside plastic Shell...that's my viewpoint!

Even if the Shell is old, all aspects of the KS16S -beside Performance- eat each other 16" wheel easy...trolley, lights, BLuetooth Music, Quality etc etc

 

Why i don't like them anymore, is because they seam to concentrate completly on the "regulated" market and not a bit on the Performance market anymore....

For me also disgusting is their Speed management.....To have a wheel perform at his max Speed only from 50-100%batterie is really awful. When you are carrying for your Batterie and just let i fill up to 80-85%...you just have a third of Batterie life on max Speed?! Thats nonsense.....

The Thing is, that KS now with their Performance in some (unregulated) Asian states is as good as out of the game.....and i dont know if sales in european states will hold that Company at living.....and what a Horror it would be if GW really has None! competitor anymore.....

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now