EvenOdd Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Just got a ACM 1300wh today and decided to open it up and take a look. QC was passed on March 2nd. Appears to have the newer connectors with the heat wrap on the motor wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 Congratulations on the new wheel! The photos look good (though I can't tell if it's the new motor connectors, but they should be). I guess that's how it's supposed to be (as opposed to literally no white heat protection sleeves on my wheel). For this specific issue, the critical part was the point right where the various motor wires exit the big black cable sleeve coming from the motor, so check that cable management there is not too messy. And maybe have a look at how good your magnet is affixed to the side panel (though even if the magnet simply separated, probably nothing would happen). TLDR: looks good, enjoy (I am totally not envious at all or anything) Awesome wheel and remember, my issue was very high stress and lack of proper cabling, so don't worry too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 42 minutes ago, EvenOdd said: Just got a ACM 1300wh today and decided to open it up and take a look. QC was passed on March 2nd. Appears to have the newer connectors with the heat wrap on the motor wires. This one appears to be pretty well done. If they can continue like this, that will go a long ways in restoring confidence in their product. But they need a top official at the end doing the QC inspections, as we all know those have been very poor in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, SuperSport said: This one appears to be pretty well done. If they can continue like this, that will go a long ways in restoring confidence in their product. But they need a top official at the end doing the QC inspections, as we all know those have been very poor in the past. The cable bundle messes still aren't decent cable management, and who knows if all electrical components are properly dimensioned. But good to see Gotway steadily improving. For a small company hidden in China somewhere, their customer service also seems pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: And maybe have a look at how good your magnet is affixed to the side panel (though even if the magnet simply separated, probably nothing would happen). Likely not, but if it were to fall onto the Motherboard, it could have bad results. That's one of the first things I do when I open any wheel is re-glue the magnets. On my NineBot one E+, it had the same magnet issue. Although a MUCH better quality glue was used, it also came loose over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenOdd Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Magnets are very covered in glue (I'm guessing hot glue) and they felt snug. I may go ahead and replace the glue with gorilla glue or something for peace of mind. Excited to get some ride time on this thing. Just riding it through the hallways at my office, I can tell it handles a lot different than my IPS191. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Heat wrap , is it a toaster ? if the cables are to thin then its not the solution , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 @Flash Very true. We're going for "well, it's better than before" incremental improvements here, for more they'd probably have to redesign a bit, get new components, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: @Flash Very true. We're going for "well, it's better than before" incremental improvements here, for more they'd probably have to redesign a bit, get new components, etc. Yes , I'm interested in this model but I want it to be safe and the price is a bit high , it's like when I blew a fuse on my ks18 and now I think about it all the time , i would rather use 50A fuse than 40A and risking the motherboard than having a faceplant , but I drive everyday and enjoy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, Flash said: Yes , I'm interested in this model but I want it to be safe and the price is a bit high , it's like when a blew a fuse on my ks18 and now I think about it all the time , i would rather use 50A fuse than 40A and risking the motherboard than having a faceplant , but I drive everyday and enjoy it Wheels aren't there yet, that's just how it seems to be. I'd also not buy another Gotway now, not because they are bad (and I already have one) but because I just expect more for the money. That being said, if I had no wheel today, I'd buy the ACM again in an instant. As @Marty Backe said, still the best wheel that exists (imho). KS18AY and KS16S are close contenders, but ACM has the perfect sturdy shell and bigger batteries. I can't agree with your fuse comment though. You'd have a faceplant anyways, just with an added broken wheel/board when the bigger fuse breaks. What is really needed is a warning before any electrical component is overstressed (apparently they don't monitor the fuse, which should be a no-brainer). As you see, KS isn't there yet too, so it's not just Gotway (but KS is certainly better). Don't let yourself be stopped from getting a wheel now though, no high stress = everything is going to be fine. Just be aware of the limitations and drive accordingly and have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 2 hours ago, EvenOdd said: Just got a ACM 1300wh today and decided to open it up and take a look. QC was passed on March 2nd. Appears to have the newer connectors with the heat wrap on the motor wires. Very encouraging, and thanks for posting. The wiring looks much better than what I've found in my three Gotway wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 56 minutes ago, Flash said: i would rather use 50A fuse than 40A and risking the motherboard than having a faceplant Those fuses in the KS wheels are not intended to protect the controlboard, they are intendet to protect the battery from blowing up in case of a short circuit. In that case, even a 100A fuse would be sufficient... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Very encouraging, and thanks for posting. The wiring looks much better than what I've found in my three Gotway wheels. Yeah! This looks very clean!!! Really got no clue how they forgot all that heat insulation on MeepMeep's wheel! Also the silicon drops now are done with some kind of sense...Not like a 3year old playing with a silicon tube anymore! so there is hope :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The wiring and sleeves look great! Well organized! Come to think of it.... the inside my wheel use to be just like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Slaughthammer said: Those fuses in the KS wheels are not intended to protect the controlboard, they are intendet to protect the battery from blowing up in case of a short circuit. In that case, even a 100A fuse would be sufficient... The truth is in the middle... :-) as: its both... yes, it protects the batteries from short circuit and fire...totally true!!! But also protects the board from burning when malfunctioning and drawing to much power... good example is malfunction of capacitor, while also drawing Amps for normal riding! would burn the board and is so protected by the fuse.... mostly fuse burn on a KS is because of "excessive overpowering" or pointing to another board failure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 34 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: No sorry.... its both... yes, it protects the batteries from short circuit and fire...totally true!!! But also protects the board from burning when malfunctioning and drawing to much power... good example is malfunction of capacitor, while also drawing Amps for normal riding! would burn the board and is so protected by the fuse.... mostly fuse burn on a KS is because of "excessive overpowering" or pointing to another board failure.... it happened in the forrest , in moss roots , as long as it doesn't happens on the road then its not so bad Have Tina left the building ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 On 3/31/2017 at 1:48 PM, meepmeepmayer said: Surprise update: lots of interesting information from Ian/Gotway! Quote: From Gotway they have confirmed that the cables were not routed properly. They have updated all staff to make sure they are routed correctly. Sorry, this is not the problem, the cables are to small for the current. And they still touch before they all connect before going in ti the engine cable. I think your point of failure was right before the cables connect in the engine cable. Quote They have also put in place a procedure where the connectors dont run along side each other (they are in a new position, not along side it other) to help with heat dissipation. Well they do run next to each other, inside the engine cable, same current inside of that small cable and now they are not i free air. Quote Secondly they have added heat protection sleeves to the cables. Again, this is not the fix, this only makes the cables hotter as they are not in "free" air. If you need heat protection from "outside" heat then the cables are to small. Quote He believes the same problem won't happen again, It will, to small cable for the current. If the smaller engine cable is good enough for the current then why is the battery cable of a bigger type? Its not just voltage drop. The current that goes through the battery cable will go trough the engine cable that is much smaller. Its not dimensions properly and thats why its melting and not the battery cable. We haven heard or seen of battery cables melting, because they are the right dimension and therfore works properly without heat sleeves. I don't want to rant Gotway or worry users but its not fixed at all. I actually want an ACM so i really want them to do it properly. With the correct dimensiond cable for the current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 @Xima Lhotz You're entirely 100% right with your objections. At least improved cabling is better than nothing. And for actual sufficient cabling, someone has to convince GW to change their design. They have to use new parts, talk to their suppliers, etc. Given how notoriouly resistant I expect them to be to any change that does not lead to direct problems/complaints/repair costs/diminished sales - this will be a hard task. Maybe a concerted demand from dealers can do that. I won't try that mountain again for the reasons you stated - I don't trust the electronics and there will be the same (or another) problem again. But maybe the only way to get GW to redesign is someone having that problem. Not sure if I want to be that someone maybe I'll do some experimenting if I get another wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 Updated OP so it is mentioned that not all problems are fixed, as some are due to the current design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: And for actual sufficient cabling, someone has to convince GW to change their design. They have to use new parts, talk to their suppliers, etc. Given how notoriouly resistant I expect them to be to any change that does not lead to direct problems/complaints/repair costs/diminished sales - this will be a hard task. Maybe a concerted demand from dealers can do that. Like you stated GW would need to change their design especially the axle to accept large motor wires. Pulling my new 12 awg silicone wires through the small axle conduit takes patience and there is no room for error. The 2 holes on the axle where the wires egress are sharp. After installation I decided to extract the new wires for inspection and found one of the wires was compromised by a small slice through the insulation from the sharp metal..My metal edges are now filed smooth. Not only should the motor wires carry a larger load but should be of better quality. The flame/ heat test video I performed on the OEM and new silicone wires stated volumes on the insulating factor between the two grades. I have been told by @EUC Extreme that GW does not produce their own motors. So the outsource company would have build a new motor from scratch. That means new molds for all of the steel and aluminum parts For GW this includes new plastic interior and exterior molds, along with all of the other miscellaneous odds and ends incorporated in an EUC. Essentially a whole new bottom up design! If GW were to implement the wiring and axle changes they would be King Of EUCs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: At least improved cabling is better than nothing. Sure, it says they are listening and wants to fix problems and this is great. Maybe next time they will change the engine cables to :-) 12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: And for actual sufficient cabling, someone has to convince GW to change their design. Yes, can't believe that they need convincing, the science is free, calculate according to load, heat and cable specs and your done! 12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: I won't try that mountain again for the reasons you stated Yes, this is the worst part, many riders use their wheels daily without problems but how does one know? What heat, hill, heat build up during a ride, board temp, bump, start, stopp etc will be the deciding factor when you have a cable as limiting factor. The limit should be current output from the board and the cables should then be designed around that current and temp. 12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: But maybe the only way to get GW to redesign is someone having that problem. Not sure if I want to be that someone maybe I'll do some experimenting if I get another wheel. You have already been that someone By posting your thread you contributed to the development and got a ball rolling! Thats great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 12 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Pulling my new 12 awg silicone wires through the small axle conduit takes patience and there is no room for error. The fact you got 3 12AWG wires through that hole displays great patience. Quote Not only should the motor wires carry a larger load but should be of better quality. The flame/ heat test video I performed on the OEM and new silicone wires stated volumes on the insulating factor between the two grades. Yes, this is so true. The silicon cables (that are clearly marked 200C 14AWG) from the board looks to be quality cables while the engine cable (regardless of spec) is not. And while fire might not be the most scientific (but most fun ) test it does display what happens to cables over time if they are subjected to heat (read current) thats higher then they are designed for. They dry and fall apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 @Xima Lhotz Thanks... I guess you're right, it already happened Though I have the hope (wishful thinking?) that, were I to try again, maybe the heat sleeves would do something. Very much agree with your "the science is free" comment, you'd think that's what a designer would do right at the start. Or maybe they did and ignored the result because no better supplier part was available. Wow, just saw your new pictures, amazing!!! You see more in these pictures than me looking at the real thing -- 12 hours ago, Rehab1 said: If GW were to implement the wiring and axle changes they would be King Of EUCs! If only Gotway fixed their unrealiable electronics (electrics?), they would be the King of EUCs! If only Kingsong offered more performance oriented wheels, they would be the King of EUCs! If only Inmotion offered bigger batteries and stopped their geolocking shenanigans, they would be the King of EUCs! If only Ninebot hadn't stopped new develoments, they would be the King of EUCs! Everyone's soooo close. It's interesting (and a bit hair-raising) to see that you could effectively "win" the EUC market by doing proper development/investment now. But I guess tiny Chinese manufacturers can't do that so easily, the market is too small, not enough money, who knows. Wish I had a lot of money to burn for starting a no-compromises EUC manufacturer. You'd never make the money back, but who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 14 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: I won't try that mountain again for the reasons you stated - I don't trust the electronics and there will be the same (or another) problem again. But maybe the only way to get GW to redesign is someone having that problem. Not sure if I want to be that someone maybe I'll do some experimenting if I get another wheel. Perhaps you can measure that hill how steep(degree) it was and how Long it was? When i remember correctly you sad it was very extreme AND Long....and also you have done very much hills before? i agree that for sure the cable's are not thick enough or low Quality....and that they are the real reason for all the connector Problems and the connector was just the weakest in the row, so it failed first. But: As i have my Msuperv3 with the same crappy cable since Oktober 2016, have been sometimes at 100kg heavy, AND done some fast and excessive riding without any failure, i really HOPE that this was a very, very unique Situation what meepmeep had done/experienced! And that as Long as you stay away from 25degree 2 mile hills...this will not happen. Hope dies at last ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 Estimated 1 km at around 15%. The best way to describe that route is "even if you walk, you'll be out of breath fast due to the constant and notable incline", so it's not a leisurely stroll. Which is exactly why it was so cool to fly up there with a EUC with no effort, remembering huffing and puffing up there (well, a similar path next to it). I'll go back and measure that route, as well as the ones that worked. Already downloaded a ton of different inclinometer apps for the purpose. Just have been too lazy for now. - I think a good recommendation is: if you can walk up the path and it's reasonably leisurely, it's fine and the wheel will do it. If it's notably exhausting and you have to walk slower to keep your breath (more like mountain hiking), be careful, your wheel has to do a lot of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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