Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Ugh, I've been itching lately to buy me a Mazda RX-8 with all that rotary goodness, but I am frightened by all the engine failures you read about. Some of these are going for about $10,000 to $14,000 for a used model or less. I almost bought an 2006 with a new engine installed, but someone else snapped it up the instant I sent an email about it. Geez talk about dumb luck or maybe fate? I hear these rotaries have higher maintenance issues with their apex seals, and although the engine is simpler than a regular piston engine there can be many bad things that can happen. I'm not sure I want to buy a used car and then end up needing to plunk another $4000-5000 into a replacement engine... But gawd that 9000 rev limit is enticing... Sigh... must be mid-life crisis setting in. I like the sportiness and looks, but I don't like the possibility of engine failure. There is something so cool about the rotary engine. I just wish it was better on gas and didn't need to burn all that oil though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Edited, after having some time for research. Note: Jeremy clarkson doesn't have to fill up, or pay for the fill up of the cars he tests. Take that out of the equation and it not a bad car, but..... DON'T DO IT! Never mind engine failure, I actually think these are quite reliable, since they increased the oil injection. There are two REAL problems with these engines. ONE: they have NO torque. That's right, none, or at least none you can feel. Even when you ring the nuts off them ( as I have, personally) you never get that "ah, there it is" feeling. Yes, they get faster but that satisfying push in the back never comes. In fact, that's why you have to ring the nuts off them; this engine design is not good at producing power, especially for the amount of fuel it burns through. It's a very unsatisfactory driving experience. TWO:. They suck down fuel like its1972. I mean, you get better gas mileage in a 454 powered truck. I'm serious. the problem starts with the way the engine capacity is described. I'm going from memory here, so if I'm way out, please feel free to correct. Bear with me it's complicated: the engine is quoted as something like 1300cc, or 1.3 litres.(654cc per combustion chamber) There are two rotors so there are two combustion chambers "Pistons" ( because there is only one "combustion chamber per rotor). So you think "all that power from a 1.3, that's amazing". But hold your "toy" horses buddy, there's more to this picture than meets the eye. each combustion chamber serves all three lobes of its rotor, so really it has SIX effective Pistons, three per rotor, X two rotors. That's three times as many, so three times 1.3 is ...Wait, let me think... 3.9 litres. Wow! It's starting to get big. BUT WAIT, THERES MORE !!!! on a normal car engine there is only one power stroke for every 2 rotations of each piston, so although a piston may be measured at 564cc, it is only doing 564cc worth of work EVERY OTHER time it comes to top dead center. The Mazda "Pistons" fire on EVERY rotation. So the Mazda "piston" does 654cc of work EVERY TIME it comes past the spark plug. So, that's twice as many power strokes, that now makes our 3.9 litres, calculated above....7.8 litres SEVEN POINT EIGHT LITERS. !!!! That's bigger than a Chevy 454 ( which works out at 7.4liters) WOW. So at the 9,000 rpm red line, it's actually firing 54,000 times per minute ! That's a lot of fuel going out the tailpipe, no matter how little fuel is in each one of those 54,000 explosions. A v8 at this power level would be spinning at approx 4,000rpm, or less. 4,000 X 8 cylinders/ 2 ( 1 power stroke per 2 revolutions = 16,000 firings. 54,000 vs. 16,000. 3.375 more power strokes to produce the same or probably less power. Actual calculations: 654cc per rotor X 2 rotors = 1308cc 1308cc X 3 rotor faces (Pistons) = 3.924cc 3.924cc X 2 times as many power strokes as a conventional piston four stroke = 7,848cc the rx8 engine is effectively a 7.84 litre monster. IT IS VERY INEFFICIENT. NOW you see why it sucks down so much gas, except, if you DID have a 454 up there, at least you'd get gobs of torque for you $. But it would handle like shite. Btw these days that much power can be had from 2 litres or less, with economy. Times have changed, as fuel prices hav more than doubled. In a nut shell, this engine is terrible. It should never have come off the drawing board. here in Europe we have diesel 26foot motor homes that get much better fuel economy that an RX8 ( 25mpg, vs about 12mpg) and don't forget that engine oil is actively consumed to keep the rotor tips lubed. That's another expense. the RX8 belongs in the past, it's a terrible car, that's why you can pick them up for almost nothing over here, cos that's what they are worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag_Rip Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The best counter to a mid-life crisis is to buy an Alfa Romeo ;-) An even better counter is to do a restoration on one that will always get you back onto the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 How about a Saturn Sky Redline? It has a reliable engine - 2.0L dual scroll turbo, gets 30mpg, 260hp/260tq stock, 0-60 in 5.5s and is a convertible. p.s. aftermarket tune or factory tune bumps the hp/tq numbers up quite significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 8 hours ago, Jag_Rip said: The best counter to a mid-life crisis is to buy an Alfa Romeo ;-) An even better counter is to do a restoration on one that will always get you back onto the ground... Ground up restoration? Lots of work! Still trying to finish my 1957 Chevy truck. No time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Thanks @Smoother for slapping me back to reality. I have seen those calculations and similar figures which shout at me that no it's not a practical car by any means. Add to that the engine blowing up and yeah I know what you mean. You do have to rev it up into the stratosphere to get into the power range, and still it's only about 237 HP at best IIRC? I have test driven one, and the power was not too bad in the mid to upper rev range. It had some oomph. I'm not looking for rubber burning torque so it was enough for me. Handling though is a different story - the 50/50 weight distribution is similar to the Miata which everyone loves. I find the Miata just so toy-like and too small. I know people have transplanted Mustang V8's into them, but I'm not that power hungry. I just like the styling of the RX-8 I guess. Sporty, got some room for hot blonde (or brunette) foursomes to drive around with. Sigh... the practical side of me says no. Just don't do it. The Saturn Sky is a cool looking convertible. I don't see too many of them around here. Yeah I don't know. I guess I'm tired of my plain old rides. I do hear that Mazda might be coming out with a rotary/electric in the future maybe? We don't have many Alfa Romeo cars over here. Fiat was one of the more European cars to venture to North America, but their styling I'm not thrilled about. @Jag_Rip what Alfa car is that you're working on? I guess I thought it would look so cool to drive somewhere in the RX-8, pull out my EUC from the trunk which has only about enough room for an EUC, and then go zipping around somewhere. Maybe it's just the unconventionality of it that I like. Or maybe I played around with too many Spirograph drawing kits as a child... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Do it Hunka! Front engine, rear wheel drive with a limited slip. I always wanted a rotary mazda also, a guy at work way back when had a light green wagon with the wankel, always thought it looked cool. Even if the rotary engine is not mainstream, it still has that cool factor to me. Torque is great, but so is 9000 rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Maybe it's just the unconventionality of it that I like. Me too! Dang it, after hearing that the price is going down, cars.com here I go again. But it's a dreamers car, I know. Screw it, I can dream can't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Don't get me wrong, I like the car too, that's why I was test driving one. But that's where I discovered the very unsatifying feeling of no torque. I love torque. And you do too. But ringing that engine out, just to pass a cyclist, gets old after an hour. Think about your wheel; its torque we feel when it powers up a steep hill, or accelerates across a street, amazing those pedestrian....eh... Pedestrians. The RX8 just left me feeling cold. It was, a nice car, and if it didn't t use gas like there was a hole in the bottom of the tank, I might have had one somewhere along the way. Swapping in a better engine is an option for the mechanically gifted, with deep pockets; it's a project and a half. But not a heavy lump like a v8. A hot 4 banger would easily crank out serious numbers, and preserve the handling. look, if you have $$ burning a hole in your pocket, and you want a weekend ride, that doesn't have to drive far, go for it. Just rember me every time you have to fill'er up. And last time I checked fuel is not getting any cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/25/2017 at 1:11 AM, Smoother said: I love torque Me too, torque wins out over horsepower. Torque IS power, and power wins.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Ahhhhh maybe my wallet is safe. The RX8 definitely is not a low end torque drag strip car, but I hear it is quite fun in the twisties. When I drove it I found that it did have some grunt from the get go. I also drove an Infiniti G37S which was nice. One of my cars is supercharged so I do know how 20 mpg feels like in the wallet, but it's fun to drive it. This RX8 rotary engine is a gas guzzler for sure and not so environmentally friendly. The chance of engine failure is also possibly high if a number of things go wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: When I drove it I found that it did have some grunt from the get go. Oh, so you wrung it out and now it's for sale? Mazdas are good, i had a GLC (great little car) bare bones model but it really was a great little car. I will always have respect for Mazda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 I test drove a 2004 RX8 at an used car dealership. I hear the 2004's are ones to avoid as they had the most problems. They had installed Recaro seats which were not comfortable (likely due to my wallet being in my back pocket). I did some spirited acceleration from a stop, and it was not that bad. The six speed stick took a little getting used to as I've only driven 5 speeds before. I'd highly recommend test driving one to see how you like it. Mazda is generally a pretty good Japanese brand without the expense like Toyota and Honda. They don't tend to keep their resale value as well, but well maintained ones keep on going. Rust is always an issue and worse on some models, but they are reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag_Rip Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 25.2.2017 at 0:45 AM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: @Jag_Rip what Alfa car is that you're working on? The one in my picture is a 1983 Giulietta with a swapped V6 from a GTV6. I wanted a one of a kind car, the Giulietta design of this generation wasnt well received (its the 80ties blocky style) and they never made a 6cyl to cater any sporty drivers. Mine should kind of look like this one when all the bodypanels are back (I havent decided on the color yet) On 27.2.2017 at 2:18 AM, steve454 said: torque wins out over horsepower. In german there is a funny explanation: horsepower defines how fast you hit the wall, torque defines how far you take that wall with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Jag_Rip said: horsepower defines how fast you hit the wall, torque defines how far you take that wall with you. That's a great explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalSeth Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Go with the s2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 S2000 is a nice pick, but it's sort of in the Miata size category. You can't go wrong with Honda generally, but styling-wise I like the look of the RX8 more. The newer RX8 R3 versions have a cool looking front bumper with the flared side areas. Still tempted, but the craving has subsided somewhat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 ARgh.... almost bought me an RX8 R3, but what is up with these sellers? They are the lamest people who don't seem to want to sell their cars. I was also looking at a different one, and I was trying to arrange a test drive. The guy said he was busy and didn't get back to me with a different time. Oh well, what's not meant to be is not meant to be. I think I'll have to settle for something like this instead: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: ARgh.... almost bought me an RX8 R3, but what is up with these sellers? They are the lamest people who don't seem to want to sell their cars. I was also looking at a different one, and I was trying to arrange a test drive. The guy said he was busy and didn't get back to me with a different time. Oh well, what's not meant to be is not meant to be. I think I'll have to settle for something like this instead: I saw a silver RX8 a couple weeks ago, caught my eye and had to see what it was. It looked real good to me, I've always like all the rotary Mazdas, ever back in the 70's A guy that worked where I did had a rotary wagon in that lime green color that looked really cool. That bike looks like it has the rotors enlarged for the wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 My 12 yr old grandson has great taste in cars! 4 more years little buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I owned a first-gen S2000 (plastic rear window) over a decade ago. I test drove the RX-8 before buying - and was unimpressed. The S2000 was a nice-looking car, and exhilarating to wind up and feel the vtec kick in. It didn't have much top end, though (I couldn't get it over 115-120). Unfortunately, a Porsche boxster clipped my front end while cruising at 55 one summer night and forced me into several 360s on the highway before slamming into the median guardrail. Prick. I still prefer the feel of Geman engineering though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: My 12 yr old grandson has great taste in cars! 4 more years little buddy! That's quite a leap from a Ninebot One E+ to a Z4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, litewave said: That's quite a leap from a Ninebot One E+ to a Z4! Let's see..what's 365 days times 4? He has that much time to save before he can even drive. When he begins driving I would prefer him in a pickup truck with only a front seat and no passengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Rehab1 said: Let's see..what's 365 days times 4? He has that much time to save before he can even drive. When he begins driving I would prefer him in a pickup truck with only a front seat and no passengers. He looks like a very successful young man in the making, and seems to have great family guidance, so I bet he will will exceed expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 I've driven a new Z4 around a track before! It was when they first came out. Someone from a BMW dealership brought one out. It had really wide tires and did well on the track. Very grippy. I think I drove it way faster than I should have as others seemed to be taking it easy with it. BMW drivers around here tend to be real idiots who think the laws don't apply to them so they seem to have a bad rep. I also saw an M3 with a huge key mark on the side so I doubt I would want to drive one anywhere. A cheap Mazda on the other hand I wouldn't care too much. I don't know why I like the Rx8 so much. The engines tend to need replacing even when you premix / do the maintenance, and it gets only about 16 mpg city / 20 highway. It's just such an unusual engine. Oh well, it doesn't seem to be in the cards this year. Maybe for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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